9 ms·

I don't think it's defending chinese companies as much as it is highlighting that companies on both sides are susceptible to more or less the same type of gover

I don't think it's defending chinese companies as much as it is highlighting that companies on both sides are susceptible to more or less the same type of government control. I personally think it's something worth mentioning when it's the most common reason cited for avoiding a chinese company.

friedman23 8y ago
> as it is highlighting that companies on both sides are susceptible to more or less the same type of government control. Except they aren't. Just the fact that you mention "both" sides shows your ignorance. The alternative to Huawei, as I have mentioned, is not an American corporation it is a European one (Ericsson or Nokia). This isn't a case of the American government forcing allies to abandon Huawei so an American corporation can profit.
- kungtotte 8y ago
  What about the rest of the world? Samsung and LG are both Korea-based, and Sony is from Japan.
  - friedman23 8y ago
    I wasn't aware that they had 5g offerings but if they do they are obviously choices too. I'm not aware of any American 5g offerings.
    - kungtotte 8y ago
      Maybe if you're concerned about privacy you'll have to settle for 4G for a while...
    - abbe_k 8y ago
      Samsung are developing 5G networks. Don't think LG or Sony has any though.
- vetinari 8y ago
  Nokia merged with Alcatel-Lucent, so it is not purely European anymore. Ericsson works on 5G with Fujitsu, so that looks more like US-free option.
  - pilsetnieks 8y ago
    It is my understanding that Nokia _acquired_ Alcatel-Lucent, and the only significant part of that conglomerate still in the US is Bell Labs (which are also now owned by Nokia.)
  - iagovar 8y ago
    Do euro vendors provide hardware for the whole chain? I mean, from dslams, to routers, olts, cpe etc If wanted to set up an ISP could I without buying non-eu vendors?
TwoBit 8y ago
You think the types of governmental control are the same between US and China? It seems clear that at least a few US corporations successfully resist meddling attempts.
- manicdee 8y ago
  Yet we have photos and video of US “customs” intercepting Cisco shipments and loading backdoored firmware or tampering with the hardware. They boast about it. If it came to a war, the US and China are both going to shut down whatever communications channels their “enemies” are using. This is just one of the reasons that US DoD is so interested in SpaceX’s StarLink.
  - tivert 8y ago
    > Yet we have photos and video of US “customs” intercepting Cisco shipments and loading backdoored firmware or tampering with the hardware. They boast about it. Having your shipments intercepted en-route by spies is very different than directly cooperating with those spies. None of those interceptions required cooperation by Cisco. Cisco complained to the government about the interceptions: https://www.recode.net/2014/5/18/11627004/in-letter-to-obama-cisco-ceo-complains-about-nsa-allegations https://www.recode.net/2014/5/18/11627004/in-letter-to-obama... Apple has also famously resisted government demands to develop a backdoor for its hardware. IIRC, all indications were that the government's demands would have been rejected by the court system had the case progressed far enough to provide a definitive answer.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
      What we think happened: Cisco complained to the government ... Apple resisted government demands. What really happened: Intelligence Community: "So, we'll demand you backdoor devices, we'll intercept a few and modify them, and then you'll public complain and resist, and then after the media frenzy has died down..." /tinfoilhat
    - geofft 8y ago
      Cisco complained! That does so much... a customer getting a backdoored router doesn't really care if Huawei consented to adding the backdoor or Cisco didn't, they still get a backdoor. Huawei says, in public, that it's important to their reputation to be known to ship un-backdoored devices. Cisco says the exact same thing.
scoot_718 8y ago
Chinese government control is much worse, are you high?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dang 8y ago
  Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?
PavlovsCat 8y ago
Every time China is critized, the US is brought up. Maybe just to "highlight" something, but here it takes up several pages before any actual discussion of the story. Every time the US is critized, China isn't brought up. Wouldn't that make great sense, too? "Snowden says the NSA X" "yeah, but China does Y!". I don't think I've seen that once, whereas "but the US!" is a constant companion.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  That's just this forum being primarily USA based/focused people.
  - PavlovsCat 8y ago
    I agree that responsibility matters. Like, I have opinions on things going on in the US or China, but I'm much more responsible for things my government does, or what companies I support with money do. And in this case, it's even fair to point out the hipocrisy of the US asking allies to drop Huawei for reasons smart allies should also drop US produced things for. But then again, we know all that, and we actually do have threads about that stuff as well, so why not also have one about Huawei.
- gdy 8y ago
  It's the US who pretend to be exceptional and to have moral high ground.

friedman23 8y ago

> as it is highlighting that companies on both sides are susceptible to more or less the same type of government control. Except they aren't. Just the fact that you mention "both" sides shows your ignorance. The alternative to Huawei, as I have mentioned, is not an American corporation it is a European one (Ericsson or Nokia). This isn't a case of the American government forcing allies to abandon Huawei so an American corporation can profit.

kungtotte 8y ago
What about the rest of the world? Samsung and LG are both Korea-based, and Sony is from Japan.
- friedman23 8y ago
  I wasn't aware that they had 5g offerings but if they do they are obviously choices too. I'm not aware of any American 5g offerings.
  - kungtotte 8y ago
    Maybe if you're concerned about privacy you'll have to settle for 4G for a while...
  - abbe_k 8y ago
    Samsung are developing 5G networks. Don't think LG or Sony has any though.
vetinari 8y ago
Nokia merged with Alcatel-Lucent, so it is not purely European anymore. Ericsson works on 5G with Fujitsu, so that looks more like US-free option.
- pilsetnieks 8y ago
  It is my understanding that Nokia _acquired_ Alcatel-Lucent, and the only significant part of that conglomerate still in the US is Bell Labs (which are also now owned by Nokia.)
- iagovar 8y ago
  Do euro vendors provide hardware for the whole chain? I mean, from dslams, to routers, olts, cpe etc If wanted to set up an ISP could I without buying non-eu vendors?

TwoBit 8y ago

You think the types of governmental control are the same between US and China? It seems clear that at least a few US corporations successfully resist meddling attempts.

manicdee 8y ago
Yet we have photos and video of US “customs” intercepting Cisco shipments and loading backdoored firmware or tampering with the hardware. They boast about it. If it came to a war, the US and China are both going to shut down whatever communications channels their “enemies” are using. This is just one of the reasons that US DoD is so interested in SpaceX’s StarLink.
- tivert 8y ago
  > Yet we have photos and video of US “customs” intercepting Cisco shipments and loading backdoored firmware or tampering with the hardware. They boast about it. Having your shipments intercepted en-route by spies is very different than directly cooperating with those spies. None of those interceptions required cooperation by Cisco. Cisco complained to the government about the interceptions: https://www.recode.net/2014/5/18/11627004/in-letter-to-obama-cisco-ceo-complains-about-nsa-allegations https://www.recode.net/2014/5/18/11627004/in-letter-to-obama... Apple has also famously resisted government demands to develop a backdoor for its hardware. IIRC, all indications were that the government's demands would have been rejected by the court system had the case progressed far enough to provide a definitive answer.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    What we think happened: Cisco complained to the government ... Apple resisted government demands. What really happened: Intelligence Community: "So, we'll demand you backdoor devices, we'll intercept a few and modify them, and then you'll public complain and resist, and then after the media frenzy has died down..." /tinfoilhat
  - geofft 8y ago
    Cisco complained! That does so much... a customer getting a backdoored router doesn't really care if Huawei consented to adding the backdoor or Cisco didn't, they still get a backdoor. Huawei says, in public, that it's important to their reputation to be known to ship un-backdoored devices. Cisco says the exact same thing.

scoot_718 8y ago

Chinese government control is much worse, are you high?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dang 8y ago
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News?

PavlovsCat 8y ago

Every time China is critized, the US is brought up. Maybe just to "highlight" something, but here it takes up several pages before any actual discussion of the story. Every time the US is critized, China isn't brought up. Wouldn't that make great sense, too? "Snowden says the NSA X" "yeah, but China does Y!". I don't think I've seen that once, whereas "but the US!" is a constant companion.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
That's just this forum being primarily USA based/focused people.
- PavlovsCat 8y ago
  I agree that responsibility matters. Like, I have opinions on things going on in the US or China, but I'm much more responsible for things my government does, or what companies I support with money do. And in this case, it's even fair to point out the hipocrisy of the US asking allies to drop Huawei for reasons smart allies should also drop US produced things for. But then again, we know all that, and we actually do have threads about that stuff as well, so why not also have one about Huawei.
gdy 8y ago
It's the US who pretend to be exceptional and to have moral high ground.