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From article - > low and middle income jobs, such as teachers and firefighters or nannies and cooks, are key to the local economy. Someone else commented in t
by tropdrop 8y ago
From article -
> low and middle income jobs, such as teachers and firefighters or nannies and cooks, are key to the local economy.
Someone else commented in this thread how all these jobs (meaning every non-tech, middle-class job) will begin to pay more once they're more in demand. The assumption is that programming/tech is highly paid because it's so in demand, and every other job isn't because vice versa.
Let's just take one job that is critical for a local economy - teachers. Some might mention that because of online learning places like Udemy, teachers for middle or high school education could be gotten rid of without too much harm. Even if you think that's true, consider children ages 0-12. Those children, undoubtedly, still need teachers/daycare of some kind. They're simply too young and at this point most adults prefer not to deal with kids, pursuing their careers instead (this is good! More brains in the knowledge economy helps spur innovation).
However, San Francisco is currently experiencing a teacher shortage of several years [1], so that vice versa I mentioned above is simply not true. The city is offering cash bonuses for teachers now, and it introduced some legislature to attempt to incrementally increase their wage, but it's not enough. Fewer people are entering the profession, knowing they need more than a cash bonus but a continually valued job that gets them consistent revenue to be able to afford to buy a house here. Even those that might have been attracted to teaching, they figure - well, I need more money to live than what being a teacher pays. That's simply an unacceptable standard of living for me and my future children.
So yes, those potential teachers can instead come to your non-profit and those individuals will be able to afford to live, fairly comfortably, as full-stack engineers.
But the community as a whole will have an even more drastic lack of teachers. While non-profits like yours help a few individuals, it is certainly not the panacea HN purports it to be.
[1] https://www.sfchronicle.com/education/article/SF-offers-rare-signing-bonuses-amid-big-teacher-8344621.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/education/article/SF-offers-rare...
- yjhoney 8y agoIf teachers makes 100k / year and good ones make 200k / year, there would be alot of people going into teaching. Personally, I don't think that teachers should be making less than an entry level software engineer. I'm also not advocating everyone learn to become a software engineer. I think its unfair for people to become stuck in their low income jobs because of financial responsibilities. The goal of my nonprofit is really to help unstuck as many of them as I can.
- ma2rten 8y agoTeachers can make more than 100k: http://www.mvla.net/files/user/776/file/Certificated%20Salary%2017-18.pdf http://www.mvla.net/files/user/776/file/Certificated%20Salar...
- opencl 8y agoOnly takes 19 years of experience to get that salary in Cupertino. https://www.cusdk8.org/cms/lib/CA02218495/Centricity/Domain/50/1819%20CEA.pdf https://www.cusdk8.org/cms/lib/CA02218495/Centricity/Domain/...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- zeroname 8y ago> However, San Francisco is currently experiencing a teacher shortage of several years [1], so that vice versa I mentioned above is simply not true. The city is offering cash bonuses for teachers now, and it introduced some legislature to attempt to incrementally increase their wage, but it's simply not enough. A "teacher shortage" isn't the same as an increase in (free market) demand for teachers (or education). Who says that people actually demand the education that the public system forces upon them? It's more like the government can't fill the poorly paid positions it decided it needs to educate people. If a private company figured out that it could make more money by hiring workers at a higher price, they would do it. But if they just have a "shortage" of cheap-enough workers to make more money, that's not actually more demand. That's equilibrium. Everybody always has a "shortage" of getting something for nothing.
- tropdrop 8y agoThis is why I constrained my argument to only consider children ages 0-12. Regardless of whether "people actually demand the education the public system forces upon them," people do demand a safe, stimulating place to put their very young kids while they go to work.
- zeroname 8y ago> This is why I constrained my argument to only consider children ages 0-12. I don't see how that changes anything regarding what I said. > Regardless of whether "people actually demand the education the public system forces upon them," people do demand a safe, stimulating place to put their very young kids while they go to work. That's still not demand in the economic sense. People can "verbally" demand anything they want, if they're not willing and able to pay for it, it's not real economic demand.
- tropdrop 8y agoIf $1300-$2100/month is not a "demand" in the economic sense, what is? https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-daycare-cost-in-the-Bay-Area https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-daycare-cost-in-the-Bay-...
- solidsnack9000 8y agoYeah, the issue with the idea of the market sorting out public servants is that schools, police departments, fire departments and other public agencies can not simply charge what the market will bear to raise revenue for higher salaries. They don't have control over their revenue stream and that is by design, because their incentives can be quite difficult to manage.
- nradov 8y agoTeachers at least can control the revenue stream fairly effectively by going out on strike next time their contract is up for renegotiation. If the schools shut down then local governments will find a way to raise the funds. Unfortunately that hurts the students but the only way to effect real change is to force the issue.
- vkou 8y agoUnfortunately, striking as a public servant is a double-edged sword. Specifically, back-to-work legislature can force you back on the job, with no new contract.
- solidsnack9000 8y agoThat's not a very direct way to control revenue. What they can't do, is post higher prices. The kind of teachers who have control over revenue are private school teachers, ballet teachers, music teachers, teachers at cram schools.
- taneq 8y ago> However, San Francisco is currently experiencing a teacher shortage of several years [1], so that vice versa I mentioned above is simply not true. SF only has a shortage of teachers at the currently offered pay levels. If tech jobs paid the same as teaching, there'd be a "shortage" of tech workers too.
- sjg007 8y agoExperienced teachers in some districts make 6 figures in the Bay Area.
- int_19h 8y ago6 figures is pretty much the baseline for software engineers in Bay Area, is it not?
- masonic 8y agoFor 9 months' work?
- isostatic 8y agoTeachers work more than 9 months, but even if they didn't, compare the top teachers with the top programmers. Glassdoor reports teachers teachers average $68k, Software engineers $137k. https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/san-francisco-teacher-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,21.htm?countryRedirect=true https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/san-francisco-teacher-s... https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/san-francisco-software-engineer-salary-SRCH_IL.0,13_IM759_KO14,31.htm?countryRedirect=true https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salaries/san-francisco-software-...
- ma2rten 8y agoTeacher salaries are public information. You don't have to rely on glassdoor.
- cutler 8y agoAll the legislation and public spending won't make a jot of difference to the state of the housing market whilst one assumption goes unchallenged - that it's ok for one class to "make money" out of speculative property investments whilst the rest of society has to spend most of it's meagre income on extortionate rents. Serious regulation of the housing market is the only way forward.