6 ms·

So I'm just wondering, what if you're a parent flying with children? I don't have kids, so I don't know what the rules are for TSA screening of them. To me, it

by geuis 16y ago

So I'm just wondering, what if you're a parent flying with children? I don't have kids, so I don't know what the rules are for TSA screening of them. To me, it sounds like as a parent you either have the choice of letting some anonymous person in another room take naked pictures of your kids, or you have to let some strange man/woman touch and grope your children until they meet 'resistance'. In the meantime, metal detectors are in place but it seems like there's some move to phase these out. And when I have kids, if some government minimum wage flunky thinks they're going to grope my daughter or son, my wife will be posting bail for me soon thereafter.

tptacek 16y ago
I'm flying with my kids in a few months; my plan is to simply record the whole thing with my iPhone (you may see me in the news shortly thereafter). If my son gets upset, I plan to tell him "this is why you're going to take trig seriously; do bad in school and you might end up with this crappy job". The pat-down is better than the machine. Even for kids. Maybe especially for kids. If you're going to violate my kids privacy, you'd better believe I'm going to want to be in the actual room.
- dmethvin 16y ago
  > If my son gets upset, I plan to tell him "this is why you're going to take trig seriously; do bad in school and you might end up with this crappy job". That is a horribly disrespectful thing to say in front of someone who is doing their job. Would you say something like that to a proctologist as they stuck a finger up your butt? I doubt the TSA people like this either, perhaps some will even resign over it. But that person has a job and they are doing it as they are instructed to do. That is the job they use to pay their rent and bills, so that they won't need to go on the dole and have their bills paid by your trig-savvy son. Bitch about the policy all you want, and do what you think needs to be done to change it. But don't belittle the TSA worker, they can't change anything.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    If you have the job that forces you to feel up the crotches of children in order to encourage their parents to send them through a machine that takes naked pictures of them without probable cause of having committed any crime, then I suggest you quit that job. Are plenty of hardworking people going to have their feelings and self esteem hurt by this process? Good. Systemetized violations of our most private areas should cause all sorts of pain. I might feel differently if these were sworn law enforcement officers we're talking about, for a number of reasons. I'm generally very respectful of law enforcement. Fortunately (or not), I'm not forced to confront that conundrum, since these aren't police officers, but low-skilled "security" contractors whose sole purpose is to harass citizens in order to create the illusion of control. By the way, in the history of all-time worst rationalizations for behavior, do we even need to talk about "that person has a job and they are doing it as they are instructed to do"?
    - powellc 16y ago
      Eh, it worked for the National Socialist Party. What, too soon?
    - RyanMcGreal 16y ago
      >If you have the job that forces you to feel up the crotches of children in order to encourage their parents to send them through a machine that takes naked pictures of them without probable cause of having committed any crime, then I suggest you quit that job. Thank you for making my day. That is all.
    - CWuestefeld 16y ago
      I wish I had the ability to up-vote more than once. This deserves to be printed and framed.
    - cjbprime 16y ago
      Awesome.
    - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
      >If you have the job [...] then I suggest you quit that job. Very easy to say. I also like how you attacked with full prejudice anyone who might attempt to contradict you. You're attacking the wrong people. Did these TSA people in the terminal get up one day and decide that they wanted to do pat-downs on everyone? I'm pretty sure it's been very hard for some of them to stay in their post with the new conditions but they're there because they do have families to feed and rent to pay, etc.. They're people too. So, yes we do have to talk about the reason that you think you can dismiss people for not simply quitting their jobs because of enforced change that is not their fault and not their choice. We do have to talk about why you feel they should be potentially impoverished. Why don't you leave your job in protest? That would be as effective as a TSA officer leaving theirs I'm sure. Yes if all people in your country refused to do security pat-downs then this wouldn't happen. Also no flights would leave the ground (for at least a time). IMO if you feel so strongly that you're demanding other people leave their jobs then you need to be doing 2 things. You need to be directly supporting those people leaving their jobs financially, and you need to be lobbying hard for a change in the rules/law. If you're doing both those things then more power to you, TSA people will be happy you're paying their wages whilst they find work. So, there you have it, in your opinion the "[worst] in the history of all-time worst rationalizations for behavior".
- varjag 16y ago
  I don't know about the United States, but pretty much everywhere taking videos of airport security check is prohibited.
  - tptacek 16y ago
    You can in the US. We don’t prohibit public, passengers or press from photographing, videotaping, or filming at screening locations. You can take pictures at our checkpoints as long as you’re not interfering with the screening process or slowing things down. We also ask that you do not film or take pictures of our monitors.
    - meelash 16y ago
      hmm... There were signs at JFK and also at SFO that prohibited cameras last time I traveled internationally (about a year ago). Where is this quote from?
      - tommi 16y ago
        http://blog.tsa.gov/2009/03/can-i-take-photos-at-checkpoint-and.html http://blog.tsa.gov/2009/03/can-i-take-photos-at-checkpoint-...
      - ComputerGuru 16y ago
        I saw that quote at New Wark and Cincinnati.
    - pyre 16y ago
      I was videoing a checkpoint during a lock-down and was told by the port authority/airport police that I wasn't allowed to point my camera at the 'secured area.' This was at Newark just this last January (when they locked it down because someone ran through the 'secured area' exit). Missing context: However… while the TSA does not prohibit photographs at screening locations, local laws, state statutes, or local ordinances might. Your best bet is to call ahead and see what that specific airport’s policy is.
    - deleted 16y ago
- erikpukinskis 16y ago
  I wish I could upvote the idea about videotaping the proces and downvote you belittling those less fortunate than yourself.
  - zackattack 16y ago
    Many TSA workers are on a power trip. Get off your high horse.
    - sp332 16y ago
      Maybe it's a coping mechanism. I mean how else could you do that job? If you and 50 people you work with are assigned to pat down strangers in an airport terminal, would you say no? Or would you find a way to deal, and just do it?
  - mfukar 16y ago
    A job is a job is a job.
- joezydeco 16y ago
  Don't they usually want your phone on the conveyor belt going through the X-ray machine? How do you videotape the circus at that point?
philwelch 16y ago
Oh, God. There's a brilliant plan somewhere in here; the trick is to make the pedophilia witch hunt and the terrorist witch hunt collide.
tertius 16y ago
Once some of the stored files leaks onto the internet... Then this whole thing would just be over.
wedfvgberfgbh 16y ago
It's 'funnier' in the UK - they ruled the scanners aren't a problem for kids, scanning them isn't obscene. But images taken by the machines may be obscene - so possession of the pictures gets you prison + lifetime on the sex-offenders register. This came up after they were going to use them in schools.
- Silhouette 16y ago
  I think the whole paedophilia thing is a weak argument against the virtual strip search machines. While I totally agree that subjecting children to that kind of abuse is completely inappropriate, I don't see how it somehow becomes any less completely inappropriate if you abuse someone the same way just because they have passed their 18th birthday. As far as I'm concerned, everyone responsible for setting the policy to use these machines or actually using them should be one trial away from the sex offender's register, just like anyone else who takes "naughty photos" of someone without their consent. They can have their hearing right after we're done with the agents described in the article who take such apparent delight in groping people inappropriately.
marclove 16y ago
How long before child molesters realize what a "great gig" it is?

by geuis 16y ago

tptacek 16y ago

I'm flying with my kids in a few months; my plan is to simply record the whole thing with my iPhone (you may see me in the news shortly thereafter). If my son gets upset, I plan to tell him "this is why you're going to take trig seriously; do bad in school and you might end up with this crappy job". The pat-down is better than the machine. Even for kids. Maybe especially for kids. If you're going to violate my kids privacy, you'd better believe I'm going to want to be in the actual room.

dmethvin 16y ago
> If my son gets upset, I plan to tell him "this is why you're going to take trig seriously; do bad in school and you might end up with this crappy job". That is a horribly disrespectful thing to say in front of someone who is doing their job. Would you say something like that to a proctologist as they stuck a finger up your butt? I doubt the TSA people like this either, perhaps some will even resign over it. But that person has a job and they are doing it as they are instructed to do. That is the job they use to pay their rent and bills, so that they won't need to go on the dole and have their bills paid by your trig-savvy son. Bitch about the policy all you want, and do what you think needs to be done to change it. But don't belittle the TSA worker, they can't change anything.
- tptacek 16y ago
  If you have the job that forces you to feel up the crotches of children in order to encourage their parents to send them through a machine that takes naked pictures of them without probable cause of having committed any crime, then I suggest you quit that job. Are plenty of hardworking people going to have their feelings and self esteem hurt by this process? Good. Systemetized violations of our most private areas should cause all sorts of pain. I might feel differently if these were sworn law enforcement officers we're talking about, for a number of reasons. I'm generally very respectful of law enforcement. Fortunately (or not), I'm not forced to confront that conundrum, since these aren't police officers, but low-skilled "security" contractors whose sole purpose is to harass citizens in order to create the illusion of control. By the way, in the history of all-time worst rationalizations for behavior, do we even need to talk about "that person has a job and they are doing it as they are instructed to do"?
  - powellc 16y ago
    Eh, it worked for the National Socialist Party. What, too soon?
  - RyanMcGreal 16y ago
    >If you have the job that forces you to feel up the crotches of children in order to encourage their parents to send them through a machine that takes naked pictures of them without probable cause of having committed any crime, then I suggest you quit that job. Thank you for making my day. That is all.
  - CWuestefeld 16y ago
    I wish I had the ability to up-vote more than once. This deserves to be printed and framed.
  - cjbprime 16y ago
    Awesome.
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    >If you have the job [...] then I suggest you quit that job. Very easy to say. I also like how you attacked with full prejudice anyone who might attempt to contradict you. You're attacking the wrong people. Did these TSA people in the terminal get up one day and decide that they wanted to do pat-downs on everyone? I'm pretty sure it's been very hard for some of them to stay in their post with the new conditions but they're there because they do have families to feed and rent to pay, etc.. They're people too. So, yes we do have to talk about the reason that you think you can dismiss people for not simply quitting their jobs because of enforced change that is not their fault and not their choice. We do have to talk about why you feel they should be potentially impoverished. Why don't you leave your job in protest? That would be as effective as a TSA officer leaving theirs I'm sure. Yes if all people in your country refused to do security pat-downs then this wouldn't happen. Also no flights would leave the ground (for at least a time). IMO if you feel so strongly that you're demanding other people leave their jobs then you need to be doing 2 things. You need to be directly supporting those people leaving their jobs financially, and you need to be lobbying hard for a change in the rules/law. If you're doing both those things then more power to you, TSA people will be happy you're paying their wages whilst they find work. So, there you have it, in your opinion the "[worst] in the history of all-time worst rationalizations for behavior".
varjag 16y ago
I don't know about the United States, but pretty much everywhere taking videos of airport security check is prohibited.
- tptacek 16y ago
  You can in the US. We don’t prohibit public, passengers or press from photographing, videotaping, or filming at screening locations. You can take pictures at our checkpoints as long as you’re not interfering with the screening process or slowing things down. We also ask that you do not film or take pictures of our monitors.
  - meelash 16y ago
    hmm... There were signs at JFK and also at SFO that prohibited cameras last time I traveled internationally (about a year ago). Where is this quote from?
    - tommi 16y ago
      http://blog.tsa.gov/2009/03/can-i-take-photos-at-checkpoint-and.html http://blog.tsa.gov/2009/03/can-i-take-photos-at-checkpoint-...
    - ComputerGuru 16y ago
      I saw that quote at New Wark and Cincinnati.
  - pyre 16y ago
    I was videoing a checkpoint during a lock-down and was told by the port authority/airport police that I wasn't allowed to point my camera at the 'secured area.' This was at Newark just this last January (when they locked it down because someone ran through the 'secured area' exit). Missing context: However… while the TSA does not prohibit photographs at screening locations, local laws, state statutes, or local ordinances might. Your best bet is to call ahead and see what that specific airport’s policy is.
  - deleted 16y ago
erikpukinskis 16y ago
I wish I could upvote the idea about videotaping the proces and downvote you belittling those less fortunate than yourself.
- zackattack 16y ago
  Many TSA workers are on a power trip. Get off your high horse.
  - sp332 16y ago
    Maybe it's a coping mechanism. I mean how else could you do that job? If you and 50 people you work with are assigned to pat down strangers in an airport terminal, would you say no? Or would you find a way to deal, and just do it?
- mfukar 16y ago
  A job is a job is a job.
joezydeco 16y ago
Don't they usually want your phone on the conveyor belt going through the X-ray machine? How do you videotape the circus at that point?

philwelch 16y ago

Oh, God. There's a brilliant plan somewhere in here; the trick is to make the pedophilia witch hunt and the terrorist witch hunt collide.

tertius 16y ago

Once some of the stored files leaks onto the internet... Then this whole thing would just be over.

wedfvgberfgbh 16y ago

It's 'funnier' in the UK - they ruled the scanners aren't a problem for kids, scanning them isn't obscene. But images taken by the machines may be obscene - so possession of the pictures gets you prison + lifetime on the sex-offenders register. This came up after they were going to use them in schools.

Silhouette 16y ago
I think the whole paedophilia thing is a weak argument against the virtual strip search machines. While I totally agree that subjecting children to that kind of abuse is completely inappropriate, I don't see how it somehow becomes any less completely inappropriate if you abuse someone the same way just because they have passed their 18th birthday. As far as I'm concerned, everyone responsible for setting the policy to use these machines or actually using them should be one trial away from the sex offender's register, just like anyone else who takes "naughty photos" of someone without their consent. They can have their hearing right after we're done with the agents described in the article who take such apparent delight in groping people inappropriately.

marclove 16y ago

How long before child molesters realize what a "great gig" it is?