10 ms·

Tesla Gave Me Control of Their Site Forums

115 points by ilarum 8y ago

tyingq 8y ago
The fun just keeps coming. We've killed Tesla's forum now. Service Unavailable The server is temporarily unable to service your request. Please try again later. Reference #6.6d0fd717.1542635887.2b540b\ Edit: It's back up now. It appears to be running Drupal version 7. Wonder if it's patched?
- mcpeepants 8y ago
  based on the contents of the publicly-available MAINTAINERS.txt file in the root, I'm gonna guess no...
  - tyingq 8y ago
    I missed this screenshot earlier: https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/11015004/tess351.png https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/11015004/... "There is a security update for your version of Drupal...There are security updates for one or more of your modules or themes..." And then this: https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/11104508/tess42.png https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/11104508/... Shows that's it's version Drupal 7.59 and Mysql version is 5.7.14 So it has at least these issues: https://www.drupal.org/SA-CORE-2018-006 https://www.drupal.org/SA-CORE-2018-006
- 4ndrewl 8y ago
  Sounds like patching wasn't the issue - it was just poorly configured (ie no restriction on who can become an admin).
  - tyingq 8y ago
    Right, but poor practice in one area usually means the same for other areas. It's Drupal 7.59, which isn't terrible, but does have open vulnerabilities.
ataturk 8y ago
The blog should be called: Idiots who buy Teslas! Look, it is really easy to know when your car will be low on gas even if the gauge isn't working. A person with a high school education can work it out. These over-priced status symbols don't even work well in the cold, so I hope you enjoy a warm climate year round or you're going to be having even more troubles. "The Tesla employees struck me a bit odd and cult-like." -- Ya think? All these tech companies have these odd, "I'm too smart to join a cult" type people working for them. Ironic, isn't it? I drive past a Tesla store[?] (not sure what they call it, it's not a dealership) on the way to work each day. I always cringe a little on the way by. Those poor people who buy those things. The impatient, hoity-toity, my-ass-don't-stink crowd around here drives them. Sickening waste of money and virtue signaling nonsense, quite frankly. Have any of these people actually driven a performance car before? The Tesla grin? Come on! The whole issue here is that the government has taken all the low-end torque out of regular cars via emissions regulations and nanny state bs.
DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
another report of how tesla moves fast and breaks things :( ... it sounds like an internal system which scope has been expanded to include customer support as the company grew (unaddressed technical debt) and they forgot about identity management. I'm not shocked though. It is perfectly in line with: https://twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1032939617404645376 https://twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1032939617404645376
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
> people who now buy a Tesla via my referral code will get 6 months of free supercharging. What a world we live in, when cars have referral codes
- tatoalo 8y ago
  > What a world we live in, when cars have referral codes I honestly prefer referral codes than having to listen to car ads every time I turn on the radio/tv
- azhenley 8y ago
  I recently bought a Model 3, but the 6 months free of supercharging is almost an insult of an incentive. Even if I supercharge every time (about once a week) for 6 months, that saves me $168 (seems to cost me less than $7 per supercharge). So the incentive for referring someone to buy a 50k car is... $168. Also, Tesla encourages the use of home charging over supercharging which many have interpreted to mean that supercharging is bad for battery life.
  - 24gttghh 8y ago
    >Also, Tesla encourages the use of home charging over supercharging which many have interpreted[sic] to mean that supercharging is bad for battery life. I'm not sure what wizardry Tesla batteries use for their supercharging, but it was my impression that you always want to charge lithium batteries at <1C to extend battery life as long as possible.
  - joshstrange 8y ago
    > Does Supercharging affect my battery? [0] > The peak-charging rate of the battery may decrease slightly after a large number of high-rate charging sessions, such as those at Superchargers. To ensure maximum driving range and battery safety, the battery charge rate is decreased when the battery is too cold, when it is nearly full or when its condition changes with usage and age. These changes in the condition of the battery may increase total Supercharger time by a few minutes over time. [0] https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging
the_duke 8y ago
Haha ouch, what a f-up. Looks like the forums are based on Drupal 6 (maybe 7). I have not so found memories of developing a few Drupal sites back in the day...
- simion314 8y ago
  The technology used is relevant, it could have been made in Rust,GO, ES7 or other cool thing, it was a human error. They probably need to restrict who can make people Admins and put a big warring when you are about to create an Admin.
  - the_duke 8y ago
    I never said it was Drupal's fault. It was just a comment regarding the rather unpleasant development experience.
    - simion314 8y ago
      Sorry, I thought your comment was related to with the article.
- nolok 8y ago
  Haven't used it, but from what I gather the latest Drupal is a complete rewrite using Symfony, so they hopefully dumped most of the legacy bad parts
  - tyingq 8y ago
    Drupal 8 uses symfony. This forum appears to be running Drupal 7: <meta name="generator" content="Drupal 7 (http://drupal.org)" http://drupal.org)" />
  - josefresco 8y ago
    The problem with Drupal is not with the "latest Drupal" - it's with the older versions, and the many sites who cannot/don't upgrade.
sokoloff 8y ago
> [I bought a $19K car because:] After we got stranded without gas for the 3rd time I knew I’d have to take the plunge and buy a car. Or you could, you know, get the gas gauge fixed or stop trying to micro-optimize the last 25% of the grocery gas discount. Either of those would cost 50-300 times less than $19K...
- TrueGeek 8y ago
  Their first and second car were bought brand new. I think they were just looking for an excuse to buy. It's not hard to own a car without a gas guage.
- gnu8 8y ago
  I would like to know how this guy is going to get stranded less often in a Tesla. At least with a fuel burning car he can call roadside assistance to bring him some gas. When his battery is flat they can’t bring an extension cord though. What a world we live in that someone so careless has so much money to throw at his problem.
  - gargravarr 8y ago
    Well, depends how far outside the box you can think: https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupportmacgyver/comments/9wlmd6/found_on_facebook_does_this_count/ https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupportmacgyver/comments/9wlmd6...
  - all2 8y ago
    I sense a market here: supercharge trucks. A truck with a buttload of diesel, a 1000kW generator, and an assortment of charging hookups.
    - Reason077 8y ago
      No need for the generator. Just a big battery onboard and a DC-DC converter.
      - 8y ago
Kaveren 8y ago
This is extremely irresponsible, and never should've even been possible to occur in the first place. Imagine all the possibilities past goofing around: 1. Could sell account contact information. (The least threatening option.) 2. Could make posts to influence Tesla stock price, either negatively or positively. Either way, the stock would likely go down sharply afterwards if this happened. 3. Could social engineer financial information from customers. 4. Could lead users to phishing sites or malware with hype of a fraudulent announcement. As per usual, Large Company Ignores Report of Serious Problem and Then Has To Deal With Negative PR From Ignoring Said Problem When They Can Easily See How Many Other Companies Fell Into This Trap And Tries To Pretend They Do Not Ignore Problems.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > This is extremely irresponsible Innovation is a game in trade-offs. I’ve been, in the past, super critical about Tesla trading off customer safety in its autopilot branding. This time, however, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Tesla is scaling production on the world’s best-selling electric car, a jewel in a world ignoring climate change. They have more important things to be doing than keeping forums humming. This is a good case of knowing when to ask for forgiveness.
  - ken 8y ago
    They weren't (AFAICT) trying to make innovative web forums. They weren't (AFAICT) pulling overworked battery engineers off their workstations to handle phone support. Even a third-party hosted web forum would have done better than this, in cost and security. This isn't the price to be paid for electric cars. This is just carelessness.
    - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
      > This is just carelessness Right. A lack of care given to this. Because it was—properly, in my opinion—being diverted elsewhere. They needed a forum, someone quickly spun something up, and then that someone properly stopped thinking about this and got back to work.
Shivetya 8y ago
Every time I reach out to Tesla to find something out it takes forever and usually I have to call and wait an hour on hold to get the answer for the question I asked in email. I have been directed back to my MVPA (the purchase agent who insures your paperwork is complete and the delivery location has its ducks in the row) more than once to get something answered that Tesla's phone support could not provide! Got to love it. Tesla support and service if anything shows a major reason the dealership network is not obsolete. Now I own a TM3 and like the car very much but it does have a few panel alignment issues that I am going to get worked on when the tire rotation comes due. While I think there are truly bad dealers out there most name brand dealers have to compete with others to get your service dollars but Tesla doesn't. Hence they can leave you in limbo. Back in 2013 when I had an issue with my previous car the dealership actually got the regional rep in to approve a fix that originally was denied. Who can go to bat for me when Tesla says no or just ignores me? personal experience dealing with support: My current outstanding question is, what is this check I received from Tesla for? It is a couple hundred dollars but with no explanation for what it is. There is nothing on my account page. My query is weeks old. Then again I had to call and and reach out to my original delivery agent just to get Tesla to pay off my trade forty five days after the deal had been done. This became an issue because the state wanted insurance on a car I did not have, the lien holder wanted insurance on it, but the insurance company was like you sold it, you have documents to that effect, you cannot have insurance.
- taf2 8y ago
  Really, my experience has been very good. I ran over a nail and not only did they get a tow truck out to me and provide a replacement tire within 1 hour they also came to my office to swap the tire out. Without any cost to me.
  - mkirklions 8y ago
    Tires are one of the easiest things to fix and/or replace. Lets not judge a company based on trivial issues. EDIT: I changed my own tire with 0 experience ever.
Tostino 8y ago
Well, that's horrifying.
dorianm 8y ago
I'm surprised they don't use Discourse for the forums
zaroth 8y ago
With customers like this, who needs hackers? The customer support story was bad enough, and I mean this from Tesla’s perspective. I do fault Tesla for not just saying NO when a customer “complains” they want to change how their car is configured after they take delivery. There are a lot of Tesla owners who have some real issues with their cars that they would like to address, while this guy is calling in to get more forum posts. This guy, who after getting direct replies from Elon on Twitter complains they don’t respond quickly enough on Twitter. This guy, who after getting mistakenly elevated privledges in the forum, proceeds to poke around the whole site, fuck with settings on his own threads, start a conspiracy theory, and then crash most of the entire forum! This guy, who now thinks he should be paid a bug bounty for that (rather than being brought up on CFAA charges?) Disclaimer: Took delivery of my Model 3 last Saturday and really enjoying my new spaceship.
- rkangel 8y ago
  If they'd said "now is the last opportunity to decide X" that would be fine, but they said something else and then couldn't work out how to do it. He tried to report the forum thing and was ignored for a period of time. You should be able to get customer support without tweeting the CEO. [disclaimer: I'm jealous of your spaceship]
  - zaroth 8y ago
    They do say that all over the site, in their deposit agreement, and in their purchase agreement. The problem is it also says any changes can impact your delivery date. So I don’t blame a customer for wanting a change but not wanting to reset their place in line. Case in point, I ordered the upgraded 19” wheels, because I didn’t like the look of the aero rims. I didn’t realize at the time you could pop off the aero faceplate and have nice dark colored rims underneath. And I have the dark grey metallic paint which would have matched. So now I have silver rims which I plan on powder coating to match the dark grey, which I paid $1,500 extra for plus another $1,000 to power coat, when the aero rims with the faceplate removed would have been perfect. But I didn’t want to bump my place in line, so I left it. And I didn’t tweet, email, call, beg, escalate, and blog about it to get it “taken care of” specially. It’s not fair to the thousands of other early adopters to monopolize their limited customer support resources like that and squeeze them for special treatment. Of course the squeaky wheel will get the grease. When something goes wrong with my iPhone that is a bit fishy but probably because it got dropped one too many times, sure I press Apple to go above and beyond to make my day a little better. With Tesla I personally think it’s my responsibility to go at it the other way around. They need customer advocates not customer leaches. It’s part of being an early adopter to a company that is running everything so close to the wire in order to radically change a very stagnant (and in some ways corrupt) industry.
pfd1986 8y ago
"And does anything get cooler than this to avoid parking tickets?" Seriously? No wonder so many people in Palo Alto / Bay Area hate Tesla drivers...
dansdeals 8y ago
Was really tempted to create a new forum for Model DD or Model DansDeals, but then thought better of it :)
xphilter 8y ago
If this is true, Dan needs to shut up, get a lawyer, and read up on the CFAA.
TSLAUSR 8y ago
Wow
TSLAUSR 8y ago
Wow, seems typical for Tesla though.

115 points by ilarum 8y ago

The fun just keeps coming. We've killed Tesla's forum now. Service Unavailable The server is temporarily unable to service your request. Please try again later. Reference #6.6d0fd717.1542635887.2b540b\ Edit: It's back up now. It appears to be running Drupal version 7. Wonder if it's patched?

mcpeepants 8y ago
based on the contents of the publicly-available MAINTAINERS.txt file in the root, I'm gonna guess no...
- tyingq 8y ago
  I missed this screenshot earlier: https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/11015004/tess351.png https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/11015004/... "There is a security update for your version of Drupal...There are security updates for one or more of your modules or themes..." And then this: https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/11104508/tess42.png https://i.dansdeals.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/11104508/... Shows that's it's version Drupal 7.59 and Mysql version is 5.7.14 So it has at least these issues: https://www.drupal.org/SA-CORE-2018-006 https://www.drupal.org/SA-CORE-2018-006
4ndrewl 8y ago
Sounds like patching wasn't the issue - it was just poorly configured (ie no restriction on who can become an admin).
- tyingq 8y ago
  Right, but poor practice in one area usually means the same for other areas. It's Drupal 7.59, which isn't terrible, but does have open vulnerabilities.

ataturk 8y ago

The blog should be called: Idiots who buy Teslas! Look, it is really easy to know when your car will be low on gas even if the gauge isn't working. A person with a high school education can work it out. These over-priced status symbols don't even work well in the cold, so I hope you enjoy a warm climate year round or you're going to be having even more troubles. "The Tesla employees struck me a bit odd and cult-like." -- Ya think? All these tech companies have these odd, "I'm too smart to join a cult" type people working for them. Ironic, isn't it? I drive past a Tesla store[?] (not sure what they call it, it's not a dealership) on the way to work each day. I always cringe a little on the way by. Those poor people who buy those things. The impatient, hoity-toity, my-ass-don't-stink crowd around here drives them. Sickening waste of money and virtue signaling nonsense, quite frankly. Have any of these people actually driven a performance car before? The Tesla grin? Come on! The whole issue here is that the government has taken all the low-end torque out of regular cars via emissions regulations and nanny state bs.

DyslexicAtheist 8y ago

another report of how tesla moves fast and breaks things :( ... it sounds like an internal system which scope has been expanded to include customer support as the company grew (unaddressed technical debt) and they forgot about identity management. I'm not shocked though. It is perfectly in line with: https://twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1032939617404645376 https://twitter.com/atomicthumbs/status/1032939617404645376

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago

> people who now buy a Tesla via my referral code will get 6 months of free supercharging. What a world we live in, when cars have referral codes

tatoalo 8y ago
> What a world we live in, when cars have referral codes I honestly prefer referral codes than having to listen to car ads every time I turn on the radio/tv
azhenley 8y ago
I recently bought a Model 3, but the 6 months free of supercharging is almost an insult of an incentive. Even if I supercharge every time (about once a week) for 6 months, that saves me $168 (seems to cost me less than $7 per supercharge). So the incentive for referring someone to buy a 50k car is... $168. Also, Tesla encourages the use of home charging over supercharging which many have interpreted to mean that supercharging is bad for battery life.
- 24gttghh 8y ago
  >Also, Tesla encourages the use of home charging over supercharging which many have interpreted[sic] to mean that supercharging is bad for battery life. I'm not sure what wizardry Tesla batteries use for their supercharging, but it was my impression that you always want to charge lithium batteries at <1C to extend battery life as long as possible.
- joshstrange 8y ago
  > Does Supercharging affect my battery? [0] > The peak-charging rate of the battery may decrease slightly after a large number of high-rate charging sessions, such as those at Superchargers. To ensure maximum driving range and battery safety, the battery charge rate is decreased when the battery is too cold, when it is nearly full or when its condition changes with usage and age. These changes in the condition of the battery may increase total Supercharger time by a few minutes over time. [0] https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging https://www.tesla.com/support/supercharging

the_duke 8y ago

Haha ouch, what a f-up. Looks like the forums are based on Drupal 6 (maybe 7). I have not so found memories of developing a few Drupal sites back in the day...

simion314 8y ago
The technology used is relevant, it could have been made in Rust,GO, ES7 or other cool thing, it was a human error. They probably need to restrict who can make people Admins and put a big warring when you are about to create an Admin.
- the_duke 8y ago
  I never said it was Drupal's fault. It was just a comment regarding the rather unpleasant development experience.
  - simion314 8y ago
    Sorry, I thought your comment was related to with the article.
nolok 8y ago
Haven't used it, but from what I gather the latest Drupal is a complete rewrite using Symfony, so they hopefully dumped most of the legacy bad parts
- tyingq 8y ago
  Drupal 8 uses symfony. This forum appears to be running Drupal 7: <meta name="generator" content="Drupal 7 (http://drupal.org)" http://drupal.org)" />
- josefresco 8y ago
  The problem with Drupal is not with the "latest Drupal" - it's with the older versions, and the many sites who cannot/don't upgrade.

sokoloff 8y ago

> [I bought a $19K car because:] After we got stranded without gas for the 3rd time I knew I’d have to take the plunge and buy a car. Or you could, you know, get the gas gauge fixed or stop trying to micro-optimize the last 25% of the grocery gas discount. Either of those would cost 50-300 times less than $19K...

TrueGeek 8y ago
Their first and second car were bought brand new. I think they were just looking for an excuse to buy. It's not hard to own a car without a gas guage.
gnu8 8y ago
I would like to know how this guy is going to get stranded less often in a Tesla. At least with a fuel burning car he can call roadside assistance to bring him some gas. When his battery is flat they can’t bring an extension cord though. What a world we live in that someone so careless has so much money to throw at his problem.
- gargravarr 8y ago
  Well, depends how far outside the box you can think: https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupportmacgyver/comments/9wlmd6/found_on_facebook_does_this_count/ https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupportmacgyver/comments/9wlmd6...
- all2 8y ago
  I sense a market here: supercharge trucks. A truck with a buttload of diesel, a 1000kW generator, and an assortment of charging hookups.
  - Reason077 8y ago
    No need for the generator. Just a big battery onboard and a DC-DC converter.
    - 8y ago

Kaveren 8y ago

This is extremely irresponsible, and never should've even been possible to occur in the first place. Imagine all the possibilities past goofing around: 1. Could sell account contact information. (The least threatening option.) 2. Could make posts to influence Tesla stock price, either negatively or positively. Either way, the stock would likely go down sharply afterwards if this happened. 3. Could social engineer financial information from customers. 4. Could lead users to phishing sites or malware with hype of a fraudulent announcement. As per usual, Large Company Ignores Report of Serious Problem and Then Has To Deal With Negative PR From Ignoring Said Problem When They Can Easily See How Many Other Companies Fell Into This Trap And Tries To Pretend They Do Not Ignore Problems.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> This is extremely irresponsible Innovation is a game in trade-offs. I’ve been, in the past, super critical about Tesla trading off customer safety in its autopilot branding. This time, however, ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Tesla is scaling production on the world’s best-selling electric car, a jewel in a world ignoring climate change. They have more important things to be doing than keeping forums humming. This is a good case of knowing when to ask for forgiveness.
- ken 8y ago
  They weren't (AFAICT) trying to make innovative web forums. They weren't (AFAICT) pulling overworked battery engineers off their workstations to handle phone support. Even a third-party hosted web forum would have done better than this, in cost and security. This isn't the price to be paid for electric cars. This is just carelessness.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > This is just carelessness Right. A lack of care given to this. Because it was—properly, in my opinion—being diverted elsewhere. They needed a forum, someone quickly spun something up, and then that someone properly stopped thinking about this and got back to work.

Shivetya 8y ago

Every time I reach out to Tesla to find something out it takes forever and usually I have to call and wait an hour on hold to get the answer for the question I asked in email. I have been directed back to my MVPA (the purchase agent who insures your paperwork is complete and the delivery location has its ducks in the row) more than once to get something answered that Tesla's phone support could not provide! Got to love it. Tesla support and service if anything shows a major reason the dealership network is not obsolete. Now I own a TM3 and like the car very much but it does have a few panel alignment issues that I am going to get worked on when the tire rotation comes due. While I think there are truly bad dealers out there most name brand dealers have to compete with others to get your service dollars but Tesla doesn't. Hence they can leave you in limbo. Back in 2013 when I had an issue with my previous car the dealership actually got the regional rep in to approve a fix that originally was denied. Who can go to bat for me when Tesla says no or just ignores me? personal experience dealing with support: My current outstanding question is, what is this check I received from Tesla for? It is a couple hundred dollars but with no explanation for what it is. There is nothing on my account page. My query is weeks old. Then again I had to call and and reach out to my original delivery agent just to get Tesla to pay off my trade forty five days after the deal had been done. This became an issue because the state wanted insurance on a car I did not have, the lien holder wanted insurance on it, but the insurance company was like you sold it, you have documents to that effect, you cannot have insurance.

taf2 8y ago
Really, my experience has been very good. I ran over a nail and not only did they get a tow truck out to me and provide a replacement tire within 1 hour they also came to my office to swap the tire out. Without any cost to me.
- mkirklions 8y ago
  Tires are one of the easiest things to fix and/or replace. Lets not judge a company based on trivial issues. EDIT: I changed my own tire with 0 experience ever.

Tostino 8y ago

Well, that's horrifying.

dorianm 8y ago

I'm surprised they don't use Discourse for the forums

zaroth 8y ago

With customers like this, who needs hackers? The customer support story was bad enough, and I mean this from Tesla’s perspective. I do fault Tesla for not just saying NO when a customer “complains” they want to change how their car is configured after they take delivery. There are a lot of Tesla owners who have some real issues with their cars that they would like to address, while this guy is calling in to get more forum posts. This guy, who after getting direct replies from Elon on Twitter complains they don’t respond quickly enough on Twitter. This guy, who after getting mistakenly elevated privledges in the forum, proceeds to poke around the whole site, fuck with settings on his own threads, start a conspiracy theory, and then crash most of the entire forum! This guy, who now thinks he should be paid a bug bounty for that (rather than being brought up on CFAA charges?) Disclaimer: Took delivery of my Model 3 last Saturday and really enjoying my new spaceship.

rkangel 8y ago
If they'd said "now is the last opportunity to decide X" that would be fine, but they said something else and then couldn't work out how to do it. He tried to report the forum thing and was ignored for a period of time. You should be able to get customer support without tweeting the CEO. [disclaimer: I'm jealous of your spaceship]
- zaroth 8y ago
  They do say that all over the site, in their deposit agreement, and in their purchase agreement. The problem is it also says any changes can impact your delivery date. So I don’t blame a customer for wanting a change but not wanting to reset their place in line. Case in point, I ordered the upgraded 19” wheels, because I didn’t like the look of the aero rims. I didn’t realize at the time you could pop off the aero faceplate and have nice dark colored rims underneath. And I have the dark grey metallic paint which would have matched. So now I have silver rims which I plan on powder coating to match the dark grey, which I paid $1,500 extra for plus another $1,000 to power coat, when the aero rims with the faceplate removed would have been perfect. But I didn’t want to bump my place in line, so I left it. And I didn’t tweet, email, call, beg, escalate, and blog about it to get it “taken care of” specially. It’s not fair to the thousands of other early adopters to monopolize their limited customer support resources like that and squeeze them for special treatment. Of course the squeaky wheel will get the grease. When something goes wrong with my iPhone that is a bit fishy but probably because it got dropped one too many times, sure I press Apple to go above and beyond to make my day a little better. With Tesla I personally think it’s my responsibility to go at it the other way around. They need customer advocates not customer leaches. It’s part of being an early adopter to a company that is running everything so close to the wire in order to radically change a very stagnant (and in some ways corrupt) industry.

pfd1986 8y ago

"And does anything get cooler than this to avoid parking tickets?" Seriously? No wonder so many people in Palo Alto / Bay Area hate Tesla drivers...

dansdeals 8y ago

Was really tempted to create a new forum for Model DD or Model DansDeals, but then thought better of it :)

xphilter 8y ago

If this is true, Dan needs to shut up, get a lawyer, and read up on the CFAA.

TSLAUSR 8y ago

Wow

TSLAUSR 8y ago

Wow, seems typical for Tesla though.