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As I understand, Assange is not an US citizen. How can they prosecute him? Wikipedia page [1] says: > Opinions of Assange at this time [2010] were divided. Au

As I understand, Assange is not an US citizen. How can they prosecute him? Wikipedia page [1] says: > Opinions of Assange at this time [2010] were divided. Australian Prime Minister Julia Gillard described his activities as "illegal," but the police said that he had broken no Australian law. United States Vice President Joe Biden and others called him a "terrorist". Some called for his assassination or execution. That's ridiculous. American soldiers killing civilians are "good guys", and Assange is a terrorist? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Assange

lazyasciiart 8y ago
Citizenship isn't usually relevant to prosecution, unless it's for something like treason. The US prosecutes foreigners for hacking crimes committed outside of the country as well.
- codedokode 8y ago
  This is bad. Because other countries might take the same approach. What if China, Iran or Russia will start prosecuting US citizens for posts on the Internet that are against their laws? Like critisizing Communist Party? I don't see the difference between US prosecuting Assange and China prosecuting those who, being infinitely malignant, publish illegal, misleading information about Communist Party or Tiananmen square events thus bringing the authority and good name of the Government into contempt.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Because other countries might take the same approach They do. > What if China, Iran or Russia will start prosecuting US citizens for posts on the Internet that are against their laws? They...do. Well, not necessarily posts on the internet specifically, but... And, in some cases, not just the “appear before a court with counsel to answer charges with some simulation of due process” way of addressing crimes against their laws. Consider, e.g., the fatwa against the author, editors, and publishers of The Satanic Verses, whose targets were neither Iranian citizens nor operating in Iran.
    - chupasaurus 8y ago
      > “appear before a court with counsel to answer charges with some simulation of due process” In Russia, more likely "being held in custody up to court's decision" because of the rules in criminal case processing code.
  - narag 8y ago
    Most countries will prosecute you if you are from that country or if the crime is commited in their jurisdiction.
    - DoctorOetker 8y ago
      at least comparatively in this thread, yours is one of the most down to earth replies, and it got downvoted?
      - narag 8y ago
        Maybe it was downvoted in error, sometimes it happens and it's better not to think too much about it. Sometimes the problem is that the downvoter thinks that I'm implying something that didn't cross my mind. Most times I prefer to keep the downvote better than explaining everything to the boredom point :)
    - codedokode 8y ago
      But Assange is not from US and he published information on Wikileaks not from US. Australia and other countries are not in US jurisidiction yet.
      - narag 8y ago
        That's my understanding too. But USA authorities have a history of trying to expand their reach as much as possible and there are several interpretations that they could resort to. As an example, they could say that Assange was an accomplice of Manning, that was convicted of a crime commited in the USA. Remember when Evo Morales' plane was stopped and searched in Spain (sigh) to catch Snowden? And that's a head of state violation! Or the CIA flights, etc. You can complain as much as you want but that's a fait accompli situation.
- starbeast 8y ago
  At the same time as having the 'Hague Invasion Act' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr... - and threatening the judges of the ICC with sanctions on the basis of their current investigations into war crimes in Afghanistan. - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/10/trump-administration-to-take-tough-stance-against-the-hagues-icc.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/10/trump-administration-to-take...
Joakal 8y ago
Try this Australian pirate who got jailed in USA. Then upon released, got jailed again for being an illegal alien and banned from USA. Before the extradition, he had never set foot in USA before. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hew_Raymond_Griffiths https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hew_Raymond_Griffiths Labor/Liberal are USA stooges.
- jacobush 8y ago
  I thought you meant like high seas pirate. That this is happening in modern times is ... interesting.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  That sounds typical of ICE - the stooges have gotten sued multiple times for deporting born US citizens.
raverbashing 8y ago
> Assange is not an US citizen. How can they prosecute him? So if I go to any country I'm not a citizen of I'm free to commit crimes? That's obviously not how it works. Not being a citizen is a nonissue
- mtarnovan 8y ago
  > So if I go to any country I'm not a citizen of I'm free to commit crimes? Read the entire comment of OP. This is the important part: "the police said that he had broken no Australian law."
- narag 8y ago
  So if I go to any country... If you go and commit the crime there.
guitarbill 8y ago
There are more egregious cases. Kim Dotcom has never been to the US, yet is somehow facing extradition to the US. None of these cases are about justice, it's more like bullying.
- codedokode 8y ago
  Exactly. US uses methods similar to Putin's who sends assassins to kill his enemies.
- scoot_718 8y ago
  He's a massive fraud who does business in the US. Why don't you make a similar defense of El Chapo?
  - jokoon 8y ago
    Although El chapo is a criminal, it should not be up to the US to judge him. The drug trade is an american problem, it doesn't really matter if people from other countries are smuggling in drugs. Also, El chapo might have operatives inside the US. It should be whatever country El Chapo is building his drug trade in, who should take care of him. And if the country is corrupt, the US cannot be everywhere to help everybody.
    - guitarbill 8y ago
      Agreed. Law enforcement cooperating across borders is fine, but extradition is a whole new level. Of course, it isn't completely black and white. If it's alleged you killed someone in one country, and then flee across the border, should you be extradited? Given enough evidence, yes, that sounds just. So how about if somebody mails a bomb to an address in another country, is it just to extradite them? It's hopefully illegal in most countries, so why not try them in the country in which they were when they committed the crime, in this case building the bomb? Cyber-crime also seems clear cut, but there's equally grey scenarios, like hacking utilities to cause harm. But for copyright infringement it's hard to see how it's just, even it it was on a commercial level.
deleted 8y ago
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lazyasciiart 8y ago

Citizenship isn't usually relevant to prosecution, unless it's for something like treason. The US prosecutes foreigners for hacking crimes committed outside of the country as well.

codedokode 8y ago
This is bad. Because other countries might take the same approach. What if China, Iran or Russia will start prosecuting US citizens for posts on the Internet that are against their laws? Like critisizing Communist Party? I don't see the difference between US prosecuting Assange and China prosecuting those who, being infinitely malignant, publish illegal, misleading information about Communist Party or Tiananmen square events thus bringing the authority and good name of the Government into contempt.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Because other countries might take the same approach They do. > What if China, Iran or Russia will start prosecuting US citizens for posts on the Internet that are against their laws? They...do. Well, not necessarily posts on the internet specifically, but... And, in some cases, not just the “appear before a court with counsel to answer charges with some simulation of due process” way of addressing crimes against their laws. Consider, e.g., the fatwa against the author, editors, and publishers of The Satanic Verses, whose targets were neither Iranian citizens nor operating in Iran.
  - chupasaurus 8y ago
    > “appear before a court with counsel to answer charges with some simulation of due process” In Russia, more likely "being held in custody up to court's decision" because of the rules in criminal case processing code.
- narag 8y ago
  Most countries will prosecute you if you are from that country or if the crime is commited in their jurisdiction.
  - DoctorOetker 8y ago
    at least comparatively in this thread, yours is one of the most down to earth replies, and it got downvoted?
    - narag 8y ago
      Maybe it was downvoted in error, sometimes it happens and it's better not to think too much about it. Sometimes the problem is that the downvoter thinks that I'm implying something that didn't cross my mind. Most times I prefer to keep the downvote better than explaining everything to the boredom point :)
  - codedokode 8y ago
    But Assange is not from US and he published information on Wikileaks not from US. Australia and other countries are not in US jurisidiction yet.
    - narag 8y ago
      That's my understanding too. But USA authorities have a history of trying to expand their reach as much as possible and there are several interpretations that they could resort to. As an example, they could say that Assange was an accomplice of Manning, that was convicted of a crime commited in the USA. Remember when Evo Morales' plane was stopped and searched in Spain (sigh) to catch Snowden? And that's a head of state violation! Or the CIA flights, etc. You can complain as much as you want but that's a fait accompli situation.
starbeast 8y ago
At the same time as having the 'Hague Invasion Act' - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr... - and threatening the judges of the ICC with sanctions on the basis of their current investigations into war crimes in Afghanistan. - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/10/trump-administration-to-take-tough-stance-against-the-hagues-icc.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/10/trump-administration-to-take...

Joakal 8y ago

Try this Australian pirate who got jailed in USA. Then upon released, got jailed again for being an illegal alien and banned from USA. Before the extradition, he had never set foot in USA before. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hew_Raymond_Griffiths https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hew_Raymond_Griffiths Labor/Liberal are USA stooges.

jacobush 8y ago
I thought you meant like high seas pirate. That this is happening in modern times is ... interesting.
Nasrudith 8y ago
That sounds typical of ICE - the stooges have gotten sued multiple times for deporting born US citizens.

raverbashing 8y ago

> Assange is not an US citizen. How can they prosecute him? So if I go to any country I'm not a citizen of I'm free to commit crimes? That's obviously not how it works. Not being a citizen is a nonissue

mtarnovan 8y ago
> So if I go to any country I'm not a citizen of I'm free to commit crimes? Read the entire comment of OP. This is the important part: "the police said that he had broken no Australian law."
narag 8y ago
So if I go to any country... If you go and commit the crime there.

guitarbill 8y ago

There are more egregious cases. Kim Dotcom has never been to the US, yet is somehow facing extradition to the US. None of these cases are about justice, it's more like bullying.

codedokode 8y ago
Exactly. US uses methods similar to Putin's who sends assassins to kill his enemies.
scoot_718 8y ago
He's a massive fraud who does business in the US. Why don't you make a similar defense of El Chapo?
- jokoon 8y ago
  Although El chapo is a criminal, it should not be up to the US to judge him. The drug trade is an american problem, it doesn't really matter if people from other countries are smuggling in drugs. Also, El chapo might have operatives inside the US. It should be whatever country El Chapo is building his drug trade in, who should take care of him. And if the country is corrupt, the US cannot be everywhere to help everybody.
  - guitarbill 8y ago
    Agreed. Law enforcement cooperating across borders is fine, but extradition is a whole new level. Of course, it isn't completely black and white. If it's alleged you killed someone in one country, and then flee across the border, should you be extradited? Given enough evidence, yes, that sounds just. So how about if somebody mails a bomb to an address in another country, is it just to extradite them? It's hopefully illegal in most countries, so why not try them in the country in which they were when they committed the crime, in this case building the bomb? Cyber-crime also seems clear cut, but there's equally grey scenarios, like hacking utilities to cause harm. But for copyright infringement it's hard to see how it's just, even it it was on a commercial level.

deleted 8y ago

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