3 ms·

I think it's a positive, but I also question what the point is. What I'd like, is a better IDE, not an IDE that can provide features I've had for 30 years, for

I think it's a positive, but I also question what the point is. What I'd like, is a better IDE, not an IDE that can provide features I've had for 30 years, for 30 different languages, in a consistent manner. I dont' want 30 languages, and 1 basic lowest common denominator ide. I want 2-3 languages, and excellent ides that push the boundaries of the unique features of each language.

zapzupnz 8y ago
It's not like those sorts of IDEs don't exist. Swift and ObjC have Xcode, C# has VS, Java has IntelliJ, etc. > What I'd like [...] not an IDE that can provide features [...] in a consistent manner How is providing consistent support for many languages a bad thing? This I don't understand. People love their tools, for better or worse, so why should being forced to change tools be the only workflow? Your beloved one-IDE-for-a-couple-of-languages already exist and have done for years, so no need to be a Grinch.
- cellularmitosis 8y ago
  > excellent ides that push the boundaries of the unique features of each language > Swift and ObjC have Xcode Hard disagree that Xcode falls under the category of "excellent". Is this parameter a concrete type, or a protocol? Sure would be nice if they were color coded... that's pretty low-hanging fruit. But that's looking at the trees. The important point is that the forest is rubbish. It is 2018 and our developer experience is still fundamentally oriented around the idea of _individual text files_. This has been the fundamental unit of organization for 50 years. A typical developer task might require examining 7 or maybe 12 small pieces of code, all of which are in different files. If this were in the physical realm, you'd grab these pieces and plop them on your desk, arrange them this way or that, think about them for a while, play with a few ideas for possible changes, settle on one, and then start implementing the changes. About the only affordance which Xcode offers to facilitate this sort of work is command+click to jump to a definition. I literally resort to _taking screenshots of code snippets_ and arrange them in diagramming software in order to think through a problem. Why is my IDE not facilitating this sort of work? Edit: though if we are stuck on text-file-oriented program organization for the time being, there's still a lot which can be done to improve upon that, e.g. https://youtu.be/0Vq2rcjWbTc?t=1429 https://youtu.be/0Vq2rcjWbTc?t=1429
  - still_grokking 8y ago
    There is a nice solution for this problem. I really don't know why it did not take of. Maybe nobody knows about it? https://www.uni-ulm.de/en/in/pm/research/projects/inline.html https://www.uni-ulm.de/en/in/pm/research/projects/inline.htm... All this "code portal" features of Inline should be found in any modern code editor! But nobody implemented them in any of the usual IDEs until now to my knowledge. That's a real pity.
    - peterkelly 8y ago
      That looks amazing and has given me some ideas for my project. Thankyou!
      - still_grokking 8y ago
        Nice to see someone noticed this one. The ideas are indeed great, so spread the word. Really want to see this features in every code editor in the future.

zapzupnz 8y ago

It's not like those sorts of IDEs don't exist. Swift and ObjC have Xcode, C# has VS, Java has IntelliJ, etc. > What I'd like [...] not an IDE that can provide features [...] in a consistent manner How is providing consistent support for many languages a bad thing? This I don't understand. People love their tools, for better or worse, so why should being forced to change tools be the only workflow? Your beloved one-IDE-for-a-couple-of-languages already exist and have done for years, so no need to be a Grinch.

cellularmitosis 8y ago
> excellent ides that push the boundaries of the unique features of each language > Swift and ObjC have Xcode Hard disagree that Xcode falls under the category of "excellent". Is this parameter a concrete type, or a protocol? Sure would be nice if they were color coded... that's pretty low-hanging fruit. But that's looking at the trees. The important point is that the forest is rubbish. It is 2018 and our developer experience is still fundamentally oriented around the idea of _individual text files_. This has been the fundamental unit of organization for 50 years. A typical developer task might require examining 7 or maybe 12 small pieces of code, all of which are in different files. If this were in the physical realm, you'd grab these pieces and plop them on your desk, arrange them this way or that, think about them for a while, play with a few ideas for possible changes, settle on one, and then start implementing the changes. About the only affordance which Xcode offers to facilitate this sort of work is command+click to jump to a definition. I literally resort to _taking screenshots of code snippets_ and arrange them in diagramming software in order to think through a problem. Why is my IDE not facilitating this sort of work? Edit: though if we are stuck on text-file-oriented program organization for the time being, there's still a lot which can be done to improve upon that, e.g. https://youtu.be/0Vq2rcjWbTc?t=1429 https://youtu.be/0Vq2rcjWbTc?t=1429
- still_grokking 8y ago
  There is a nice solution for this problem. I really don't know why it did not take of. Maybe nobody knows about it? https://www.uni-ulm.de/en/in/pm/research/projects/inline.html https://www.uni-ulm.de/en/in/pm/research/projects/inline.htm... All this "code portal" features of Inline should be found in any modern code editor! But nobody implemented them in any of the usual IDEs until now to my knowledge. That's a real pity.
  - peterkelly 8y ago
    That looks amazing and has given me some ideas for my project. Thankyou!
    - still_grokking 8y ago
      Nice to see someone noticed this one. The ideas are indeed great, so spread the word. Really want to see this features in every code editor in the future.