8 ms·

They help distribute low-priced goods. Lower priced goods broaden accessibility and thus help the poor. If you're not poor or don't interact with the poor much

They help distribute low-priced goods. Lower priced goods broaden accessibility and thus help the poor. If you're not poor or don't interact with the poor much that might be easy to miss.

joe_the_user 8y ago
Sure, let's say I'm pretty aware of the habits of the poor. Selling cheap stuff, however, doesn't actually build an area. The poor today in the US are not saving anything. Money for infrastructure and other improvements to an area is not going to come from Wallmart's low prices.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  It is a quandary, I'll concede that. It's a tough problem, and we need to come up with a solution. However, trying to live without the moderating influence that Walmart has on the ravages of inequality is a worse problem than trying to figure out how to get infrastructure paid for.
  - joe_the_user 8y ago
    However, trying to live without the moderating influence that Walmart has on the ravages of inequality is a worse problem than trying to figure out how to get infrastructure paid for. The poor living without infrastructure actually keeps them poor (can't commute to work, say). The poor not being to buy at Wallmart leaves them with Amazon and with a corner store that might rip them off a bit but has some relation to their lives. Edit: I mean, I live on a limited income and have plenty of friends as close to absolute poverty as it gets. None depend on Walmart in particular though some depend on Target, an equivalent. You can live even more cheaply buying from thrift stores than Walmart. Moreover, most people who can go to the giant big box stores have working cars which put them on a tier slightly above the very poorest. Sure, broadly, the last thirty years of declining wages for the working class have been softened by the flood of cheap manufactured goods. But that's overall - Walmart is not the only conduit of this flood, though it's helped. And Walmart + other big box stores also benefit from economies of scale and dodging taxes for infrastructure. Of course, it's reasonable to say Walmart isn't a pure evil but touting it as a net good seems equally misguided. The despair of "Walmart-ized" small town American is well documented. For example, It sounds impossible that lots of people today subsist out in the middle nowhere, where the bus services barely exist, without their cars. But this is what happens today and the cuts in infrastructure, no buses and etc, hurt this group a lot.
bilbo0s 8y ago
This can't be reiterated enough. These store provide a lifeline for a certain segment of the population. Without these stores, one store in particular, there would be a lot of instability in society as we transition from a mostly middle class society to something a bit more bipolar. Inequality is real, and these kinds of stores go a long way towards making it tolerable. Now I can't put a dollar value on that, but it has to be worth something.
- iainmerrick 8y ago
  Are they not also one of the causes of that transition?
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    Not really. Walmart did not make the factories go away for instance. Now what Walmart did do was to take advantage of the economic detritus left in flyover country as productivity gains and outsourcing started to eviscerate the jobs landscape. But Walmart was not the cause so much as they came along after and capitalized on the ruins.
    - anigbrowl 8y ago
      That's like saying the jackals nipping at your flanks are just responding to drought conditions but but bear no responsibility for the bites they're taking out of you. I get the point you're making but it seems a mite disingenuous.
    - throwaway080383 8y ago
      I disagree. It's a cliche at this point that when Wal-Mart enters a town, all the mom and pop stores close up. The profit margins from distributing these goods now contributes to $WMT rather than staying in the local economy.
      - sokoloff 8y ago
        The presence of Walmart also helps the low-income members of a community by providing a one-stop shop for low priced, generally acceptable quality goods. When I graduated from college and had my first job and apartment, a relatively large amount of my income was spent at the local Walmart. It was a godsend for me at the time. What I didn't spend at all those too inefficient to compete mom and pop stores was money that I could use to pay off student loans, rent, utilities, and still have a little money left over to save up an emergency fund.
dogecoinbase 8y ago
Simultaneously, they undercut local merchants and annihilate the local/municipal economy. They are able to utilize profit extracted elsewhere to decrease the activity of the local economy for their benefit, and they should be taxed by the local community on this differential. Here's a good read on the topic: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/13/dollar-general-walmart-buhler-haven-kansas https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/13/dollar-gene...
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
This. Walmart might be evil but it's a godsend if you're poor. $1.28 bread. $16.97 jeans. A lot of people wouldn't have the standard of living they do if it weren't for the big box stores using economics of scale to make goods available at razor thin margins. Wealthy people benefit too. Just last week my water heater started leaking. My girlfriend turned it off but I wasn't able to get home and assess the situation until ~6pm. Well by then most traditional plumbing supply places are closed. Enter Home Depot. Long story short I was able to choose from 5+ models of water heater buy one that was almost a dimensional replica of my leaking one, everything I needed to install it at ~7pm on a weeknight. Your local plumbing supply store that caters to tradesmen probably isn't open past 6.
- nradov 8y ago
  Home Depot does a huge business selling to smaller tradesmen as well.
- joe_the_user 8y ago
  This. Walmart might be evil but it's a godsend if you're poor. $1.28 bread. $16.97 jeans. I'm fairly poor but the bread and the jean and what-not sold at Walmart is of the worst imaginable quality. Ross Dress-for-less and thrift stores offer deals. Walmart sells cheap stuff that's more or less worth what you pay for it.
  - 8note 8y ago
    almost certainly less than you're paying. they still need to make a profit
yuhong 8y ago
I think part of the problem is how the current debt-based economy works. Many of the goods big box stores sell are often imported, and these stores often look for the cheapest imported good they can sell. You can also see this with Amazon today.
anigbrowl 8y ago
Yeah that's the theory, but they also hurt the poor by driving competitors out of business in the name of 'efficiency' and lowering wages in the area. Locally owned businesses don't employ money as efficiently but they also cause it to keep circulating within the same community for longer. Price theory is wildly overrated because it trets a theoretical optimum as a real-world desideratum while ignoring other market signals.

They help distribute low-priced goods. Lower priced goods broaden accessibility and thus help the poor. If you're not poor or don't interact with the poor much that might be easy to miss.

joe_the_user 8y ago

Sure, let's say I'm pretty aware of the habits of the poor. Selling cheap stuff, however, doesn't actually build an area. The poor today in the US are not saving anything. Money for infrastructure and other improvements to an area is not going to come from Wallmart's low prices.

bilbo0s 8y ago
It is a quandary, I'll concede that. It's a tough problem, and we need to come up with a solution. However, trying to live without the moderating influence that Walmart has on the ravages of inequality is a worse problem than trying to figure out how to get infrastructure paid for.
- joe_the_user 8y ago
  However, trying to live without the moderating influence that Walmart has on the ravages of inequality is a worse problem than trying to figure out how to get infrastructure paid for. The poor living without infrastructure actually keeps them poor (can't commute to work, say). The poor not being to buy at Wallmart leaves them with Amazon and with a corner store that might rip them off a bit but has some relation to their lives. Edit: I mean, I live on a limited income and have plenty of friends as close to absolute poverty as it gets. None depend on Walmart in particular though some depend on Target, an equivalent. You can live even more cheaply buying from thrift stores than Walmart. Moreover, most people who can go to the giant big box stores have working cars which put them on a tier slightly above the very poorest. Sure, broadly, the last thirty years of declining wages for the working class have been softened by the flood of cheap manufactured goods. But that's overall - Walmart is not the only conduit of this flood, though it's helped. And Walmart + other big box stores also benefit from economies of scale and dodging taxes for infrastructure. Of course, it's reasonable to say Walmart isn't a pure evil but touting it as a net good seems equally misguided. The despair of "Walmart-ized" small town American is well documented. For example, It sounds impossible that lots of people today subsist out in the middle nowhere, where the bus services barely exist, without their cars. But this is what happens today and the cuts in infrastructure, no buses and etc, hurt this group a lot.

bilbo0s 8y ago

This can't be reiterated enough. These store provide a lifeline for a certain segment of the population. Without these stores, one store in particular, there would be a lot of instability in society as we transition from a mostly middle class society to something a bit more bipolar. Inequality is real, and these kinds of stores go a long way towards making it tolerable. Now I can't put a dollar value on that, but it has to be worth something.

iainmerrick 8y ago
Are they not also one of the causes of that transition?
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  Not really. Walmart did not make the factories go away for instance. Now what Walmart did do was to take advantage of the economic detritus left in flyover country as productivity gains and outsourcing started to eviscerate the jobs landscape. But Walmart was not the cause so much as they came along after and capitalized on the ruins.
  - anigbrowl 8y ago
    That's like saying the jackals nipping at your flanks are just responding to drought conditions but but bear no responsibility for the bites they're taking out of you. I get the point you're making but it seems a mite disingenuous.
  - throwaway080383 8y ago
    I disagree. It's a cliche at this point that when Wal-Mart enters a town, all the mom and pop stores close up. The profit margins from distributing these goods now contributes to $WMT rather than staying in the local economy.
    - sokoloff 8y ago
      The presence of Walmart also helps the low-income members of a community by providing a one-stop shop for low priced, generally acceptable quality goods. When I graduated from college and had my first job and apartment, a relatively large amount of my income was spent at the local Walmart. It was a godsend for me at the time. What I didn't spend at all those too inefficient to compete mom and pop stores was money that I could use to pay off student loans, rent, utilities, and still have a little money left over to save up an emergency fund.

dogecoinbase 8y ago

Simultaneously, they undercut local merchants and annihilate the local/municipal economy. They are able to utilize profit extracted elsewhere to decrease the activity of the local economy for their benefit, and they should be taxed by the local community on this differential. Here's a good read on the topic: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/13/dollar-general-walmart-buhler-haven-kansas https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/aug/13/dollar-gene...

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

This. Walmart might be evil but it's a godsend if you're poor. $1.28 bread. $16.97 jeans. A lot of people wouldn't have the standard of living they do if it weren't for the big box stores using economics of scale to make goods available at razor thin margins. Wealthy people benefit too. Just last week my water heater started leaking. My girlfriend turned it off but I wasn't able to get home and assess the situation until ~6pm. Well by then most traditional plumbing supply places are closed. Enter Home Depot. Long story short I was able to choose from 5+ models of water heater buy one that was almost a dimensional replica of my leaking one, everything I needed to install it at ~7pm on a weeknight. Your local plumbing supply store that caters to tradesmen probably isn't open past 6.

nradov 8y ago
Home Depot does a huge business selling to smaller tradesmen as well.
joe_the_user 8y ago
This. Walmart might be evil but it's a godsend if you're poor. $1.28 bread. $16.97 jeans. I'm fairly poor but the bread and the jean and what-not sold at Walmart is of the worst imaginable quality. Ross Dress-for-less and thrift stores offer deals. Walmart sells cheap stuff that's more or less worth what you pay for it.
- 8note 8y ago
  almost certainly less than you're paying. they still need to make a profit

yuhong 8y ago

I think part of the problem is how the current debt-based economy works. Many of the goods big box stores sell are often imported, and these stores often look for the cheapest imported good they can sell. You can also see this with Amazon today.

anigbrowl 8y ago

Yeah that's the theory, but they also hurt the poor by driving competitors out of business in the name of 'efficiency' and lowering wages in the area. Locally owned businesses don't employ money as efficiently but they also cause it to keep circulating within the same community for longer. Price theory is wildly overrated because it trets a theoretical optimum as a real-world desideratum while ignoring other market signals.