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I have many friends and a whole family who don't care about this. I tried to get people on Signal but it worked only for a handful. It would be nice if at leat

I have many friends and a whole family who don't care about this. I tried to get people on Signal but it worked only for a handful. It would be nice if at leat I could pay to keep WA clean (and please let me pay to keep my addresses to myself as well), because leaving it completely is impossible for now. Here in the Netherlands WA is the communications standard, even most company helpdesks are on it.

Angostura 8y ago
The reason I don’t use WhatsApp is simply because it requires full, unfettered access to your entire contacts to work properly. When I explain to people that giving Facebook access to the contact details of my bank, psychotherapist, doctor, all work colleagues etc., they tend to understand
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > it requires full, unfettered access to your entire contacts to work properly I don’t give it these permissions. It requires punching in phone numbers, but that adds the right amount of friction to bounce communications to iMessage or a call.
  - crtasm 8y ago
    Is there any way to get (nick)names to show up instead of just phone numbers? I tried revoking the contacts permission then realised how it could be quite difficult to find a chat in a long list.
  - AdamSteel 8y ago
    Unfortunately on Android you have no choice.
    - macintux 8y ago
      That was long a differentiating factor between iOS and Android: Android's permissions were granted at install, iOS asked for each one individually, allowing much greater control. But, I thought that was changing. Is Android not moving to the more granular model?
      - tialaramex 8y ago
        Yes, Android apps which want shiny modern features have to prompt on usage, but if an app says it is for old Android that couldn't do this it doesn't have to implement that behaviour (of course then it can't have new features since those didn't exist). Google set a deadline for when no new "old" apps are allowed but I didn't pay attention to when that is. I routinely tell (Android) apps that try to do too much that no they can't have access, but mostly I just uninstall them and use something better.
      - AdamSteel 8y ago
        Android did, but Whatsapp simply refuses to work if you deny contacts.
    - the_duke 8y ago
      This changed recently. I installed WA on a new phone last week and it asked for the "Access Contacts" permission. I denied and the app worked just fine, without showing my contacts. In general, the trend to optional permissions asked on first use is introduced in more and more apps and it's refreshing.
Freak_NL 8y ago
I manage quite well without it, and many other Dutch do too. I will fight for a society that doesn't depend on a tool that can only be used by getting into a legal agreement with Facebook and makes owning either an Android or IOS smartphone a requirement. Fuck these walled gardens.
- Maarten88 8y ago
  > I manage quite well without it, and many other Dutch do too I wonder how you can manage without WA in the Netherlands. For me, all group events, sports, kids' activities, trips, vacations, family things, etc are managed in a whatsapp group. To "App" has entered daily Dutch vocabulary as a verb (meaning sending a whatsapp message). I'm in dozens of groups (none of them created by me) and participating in anything without it would be very unpractical.
  - Freak_NL 8y ago
    People mail, text, or call me. Those who use WhatsApp know this and have the decency to take that into consideration. I'll gladly deal with any downsides if that means maintaining the principled standpoint that being a member of society doesn't require owning either an Android or IOS smartphone, being forced to run someone's black-box proprietary software, and agreeing with some foreign mega-corporation's dubious terms of agreement. It's harmful for democratic society as a whole to engender such a dependency. Besides, if the experience of friends and colleagues is anything to go by, opting in to Whatsapp means you get its downsides too: that one group member who keeps spamming everyone with noise, the constant demand for attention, the gossipy, sometimes down-right stalkerish neighbourhood watch groups (glad my neighbourhood hasn't hung up those sycophantic Whatsapp street signs), not to mention Facebook looking over your shoulder at the metadata level.
    - krageon 8y ago
      Every friend group has one or two people that interact with others like you do: It has to be on their terms, they have principles that get in the way, etc. That's beautiful and all the more power to you for doing so, but if you believe it doesn't impact you much more heavily than you make it seem here you are deluding yourself. You've made it so that including you in anything is effort. Effort that people need to expend consciously, and will not be the ground state. You've isolated yourself (to a certain degree) for your principles.

Angostura 8y ago

The reason I don’t use WhatsApp is simply because it requires full, unfettered access to your entire contacts to work properly. When I explain to people that giving Facebook access to the contact details of my bank, psychotherapist, doctor, all work colleagues etc., they tend to understand

JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> it requires full, unfettered access to your entire contacts to work properly I don’t give it these permissions. It requires punching in phone numbers, but that adds the right amount of friction to bounce communications to iMessage or a call.
- crtasm 8y ago
  Is there any way to get (nick)names to show up instead of just phone numbers? I tried revoking the contacts permission then realised how it could be quite difficult to find a chat in a long list.
- AdamSteel 8y ago
  Unfortunately on Android you have no choice.
  - macintux 8y ago
    That was long a differentiating factor between iOS and Android: Android's permissions were granted at install, iOS asked for each one individually, allowing much greater control. But, I thought that was changing. Is Android not moving to the more granular model?
    - tialaramex 8y ago
      Yes, Android apps which want shiny modern features have to prompt on usage, but if an app says it is for old Android that couldn't do this it doesn't have to implement that behaviour (of course then it can't have new features since those didn't exist). Google set a deadline for when no new "old" apps are allowed but I didn't pay attention to when that is. I routinely tell (Android) apps that try to do too much that no they can't have access, but mostly I just uninstall them and use something better.
    - AdamSteel 8y ago
      Android did, but Whatsapp simply refuses to work if you deny contacts.
  - the_duke 8y ago
    This changed recently. I installed WA on a new phone last week and it asked for the "Access Contacts" permission. I denied and the app worked just fine, without showing my contacts. In general, the trend to optional permissions asked on first use is introduced in more and more apps and it's refreshing.

Freak_NL 8y ago

I manage quite well without it, and many other Dutch do too. I will fight for a society that doesn't depend on a tool that can only be used by getting into a legal agreement with Facebook and makes owning either an Android or IOS smartphone a requirement. Fuck these walled gardens.

Maarten88 8y ago
> I manage quite well without it, and many other Dutch do too I wonder how you can manage without WA in the Netherlands. For me, all group events, sports, kids' activities, trips, vacations, family things, etc are managed in a whatsapp group. To "App" has entered daily Dutch vocabulary as a verb (meaning sending a whatsapp message). I'm in dozens of groups (none of them created by me) and participating in anything without it would be very unpractical.
- Freak_NL 8y ago
  People mail, text, or call me. Those who use WhatsApp know this and have the decency to take that into consideration. I'll gladly deal with any downsides if that means maintaining the principled standpoint that being a member of society doesn't require owning either an Android or IOS smartphone, being forced to run someone's black-box proprietary software, and agreeing with some foreign mega-corporation's dubious terms of agreement. It's harmful for democratic society as a whole to engender such a dependency. Besides, if the experience of friends and colleagues is anything to go by, opting in to Whatsapp means you get its downsides too: that one group member who keeps spamming everyone with noise, the constant demand for attention, the gossipy, sometimes down-right stalkerish neighbourhood watch groups (glad my neighbourhood hasn't hung up those sycophantic Whatsapp street signs), not to mention Facebook looking over your shoulder at the metadata level.
  - krageon 8y ago
    Every friend group has one or two people that interact with others like you do: It has to be on their terms, they have principles that get in the way, etc. That's beautiful and all the more power to you for doing so, but if you believe it doesn't impact you much more heavily than you make it seem here you are deluding yourself. You've made it so that including you in anything is effort. Effort that people need to expend consciously, and will not be the ground state. You've isolated yourself (to a certain degree) for your principles.