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The part about these convictions that bugs me is that some of the people getting in trouble were definitely not aware that they were breaking the law. It surpri
by ve55 8y ago
The part about these convictions that bugs me is that some of the people getting in trouble were definitely not aware that they were breaking the law. It surprises a lot of people when they find out it's illegal to buy and sell bitcoin for cash to strangers in the US like this (that is, with no license or reporting or discrimination). I hope most of those convicted don't get jail time unless they truly knew that it may have been coming.
- toomuchtodo 8y agoIgnorance of the law is not a defense, and this person had the resources to engage an attorney (at $300k/year of income).
- andrewprock 8y agoI don't think they made that much. At 6-9 million in transfers, that would be a 10-15% commission, which feels quite high. But maybe that is typical when doing illegal transactions.
- gst 8y ago10-15% sounds reasonable. For example currently Bitcoin trades at $6325 on Coinbase, while cash offers on LocalBitcoins are at around $7000 per BTC.
- slededit 8y agoIt’s not a defense but traditionally this was balanced by laws requiring a mens rea component - or a guilty mind. With the rise of strict liability crimes for everything this balance is no longer in place. The Overton window has moved dramatically from where it was when that phrase was coined.
- sbov 8y agoDisclaimer: unless you're the police.
- toomuchtodo 8y agoSystemic issues are behind the scope of this thread.
- mikeash 8y agoI have to think that such unawareness is at least partially willful. They are no doubt aware that the government regulates a lot of things and that financial services in particular have a lot of regulation. It didn’t occur to them that they might need to find out what applies to them?
- Scoundreller 8y agoWhat other commodities do I need to get a license to buy/sell?
- mikeash 8y agoOff the top of my head: food, cars, stocks, land, gasoline, scrap metal.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoAt a small enough scale and not in government-heavy states all of those are legal to do without any sort of license. When you start doing it regularly is when you need licenses.
- mikeash 8y agoDoes selling $2 million a year or more qualify as regularly?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- diazon 8y agoReally, you make $300,000 a year and report no taxes and you think you're not doing something illegal?
- SpaceGorilla 8y agoWould her paying taxes make this less illegal? If she was dealing with gold/diamonds instead of bitcoin would it be legal?
- tomjakubowski 8y ago> If she was dealing with gold/diamonds instead of bitcoin would it be legal? IANAL but surely laundering known drug money with gold/diamonds/beanie babies/bitcoin are all illegal.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago> Would her paying taxes make this less illegal? Pedantically, yes--there would be one fewer crimes committed. Practically, not reporting income hints at knowing its source isn't entirely legal.
- empath75 8y agoIt doesn’t matter how you launder money. It could have been Applebee’s gift cards.
- r00fus 8y agoIt's not unlike those who capriciously decide to day-trade then run afoul of taxation rules and limitations of operation so they end up losing a lot more money than expected. Some like the individual in the article will end up being examples to others.
- wmf 8y agoThis reminds me of AirBnB hosts or Uber drivers violating various laws. The platform (LocalBitcoins in this case) should be educating people about these laws so they can understand the risks of what they're doing.
- iaw 8y agoAccording the filing (linked elsewhere in this thread) she knowingly took funds (from an undercover agent) that she believed to be from drug sales... e.g. she intentionally provided a money laundering service.
- Scoundreller 8y agoBut was still charged with more generic offences that have nothing to do with drugs.
- empath75 8y agoThat’s what those generic offenses are designed for. There’s nothing morally wrong with moving money around for people without validating their identity. But if you make it illegal than almost everyone doing it will be doing it to launder money or evade taxes, so if you catch someone at that, it’s almost certain that they have either committed another crime or have assisted someone else at committing a crime. The alternative to having financial crimes like that is that it becomes impossible to convict the upper levels of crime organizations of anything, and you just end up arresting low level people for crimes where you have immediate physical evidence.
- cheriot 8y agoWouldn't they still be guilty of tax fraud? Making more actions/people criminal just to catch the people that should be criminal more easily doesn't sit well.
- nradov 8y agoIt wouldn't necessarily be tax fraud. Criminals are free to declare their income from illegal activities and pay taxes on it. https://amp.cnn.com/money/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-income-tax/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/money/2013/02/28/news/economy/illegal-in...
- 8y ago
- tigershark 8y agoAh yes.. it’s full of people in the world earning 300k$ just working 3h/day from home as all the ads say.
- dannyw 8y agoThis is a very old article published recently. She was sentenced to one year in prison, in July.
- Scoundreller 8y agoCorrect: more info in this write up: https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bitcoin-sentencing-20180709-story.html https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-bitcoin-sentencing-20...
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]