5 ms·

Having lived in a home and in high density high rises I couldn’t disagree more about the perspective that it’s a downgrade. 24/7 doorman means someone to sign

by cenal 8y ago

Having lived in a home and in high density high rises I couldn’t disagree more about the perspective that it’s a downgrade. 24/7 doorman means someone to sign for packages. A community of people who presumably are in your socioeconomic class will be living with you. These are folks you can interact with and depending on your stage in life you may potentially do business with, befriend, start children’s play groups with, or even date/marry. Big communities tend to have nice amenities that you’d only find in a country club all inclusive. Maintenance of the high rise unit is often included in the fees or rent. These communities tend to get better access to interconnect technologies like fiber. There will tend to be more options for healthy foods, increased opportunities for walkable restaurants and other forms of entertainment as the population density of the area increases. And more... Basically, my preference 10/10 times would be to live in a high density tall building over a single family home in a neighborhood.

esotericn 8y ago
Repeating my post from below: I'm obviously simplifying. Luxury apartments downtown are different to the sort of monstrosities you see in suburbs. Moving from a family home in a suburb into the city =/= moving from a family home into a block of flats on the same street. The latter is what I am calling a 'strict downgrade'.
- meddlepal 8y ago
  I think you're getting downvoted here or at least misunderstood because in America, suburban apartments are usually very nice in their own regard. So people don't see them as downgrades unless you actually need the space of a full house (eg. For raising a family)
  - virmundi 8y ago
    There is also a cultural difference. While at Oxford, the family that I stayed with had a garden. British people love their gardens. It wasn't much of a garden, but it was in Oxford, and it was their little piece of barely green soil. Americans have their land of course. I have my own equivalent garden. The difference is scarcity. I can travel a continent and still buy a garden relatively cheap. The UK? Not so much.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >It wasn't much of a garden, but it was in Oxford, and it was their little piece of barely green soil. I'm not sure about this "barely green" thing. Haven't been to Oxford, but I've visited Cambridge, and the gardens there are magnificently green.
      - virmundi 8y ago
        Green is relative. Florida has much more greenery that Oxford. Plus, these owners ran a house of protection for Africans that survived their village being slaughtered. They had a bit more pressing things to worry about than making a great garden.
  - esotericn 8y ago
    Possibly. I think the misunderstanding comes from making a comparison that I obviously haven't attempted to, and that no reasonable person would (basically, a strawman). I can't see how a suburban apartment can be as nice as a suburban house unless you're making a cost argument. Yes, perhaps an apartment at price X is better than a house at price X. (Perhaps at price X a house doesn't even exist). The point is that someone who already owns a decent home doesn't have to make that decision, and that describes huge swathes of the city. The financial decision is for newcomers who are attempting to push these people out (or push them in to inferior conditions). If you have a 4 bedroom semi in Zone 4 London then I cannot see an equivalent apartment. It doesn't even make sense to me. No apartment block on the same street could be nicer. Only if you compared it with, say, some skyscraper in the City does it make sense to even talk about it, and that's a complete lifestyle change.
    - Aeolun 8y ago
      As he said, some suburban appartments in the US look more like hotels (and $500/month HOA on top of your rent). In the UK (and most of Europe) the suburban apartment is most akin to a concrete box.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Saying it’s suburban housing, or detached homes is a pure straw man argument as people can move from a suburban home to an apartment in the city very easily. If you can sell a house, move to an apartment and net X00,000 $ that’s very attractive. So price difference are really part of the equation. Also, people might prefer a detached home for ~30 years when having kids, but their is a constant stream of people exiting that life stage. How and where to downsize is a real question people deal with daily.
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  This depends entirely on the city and culture. A lot of European cities don't follow the modern you describe at all.
mattrjacobs 8y ago
I completely agreed with you until I had kids and then the opposite was true. I don’t think either option is good or bad- just different trade offs.
- scarejunba 8y ago
  I grew up in a sort of building style you don't see in America. High rise flats built around a courtyard/park. Lots of room for kids to play in, lots of built-in friends of all ages groups for the kids, flats big enough for families (shared rooms for younger kids is fine). Honestly, if those existed in America I could think of nothing better to raise children in.
  - gedy 8y ago
    The did/do exist as "projects", and developed a horrible reputation in the US for other reasons and there was a backlash against them.
    - scarejunba 8y ago
      Interesting, so that style was practised mostly in social housing projects? I could see how that could lead to problems especially with drug crime and guns and whatnot. About the worst thing that ever happened where I grew up was a foul on the basketball court.
      - gedy 8y ago
        Yes I believe housing projects were the first/main use of that style here. I know I have an instinctive negative reaction to them (mainly though from TV shows focusing on the horrors of projects).
        scarejunba 8y ago
        Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I live in America too, now, but I haven’t ever actually seen the projects and the ones in The Wire aren’t quite what I was thinking of. Those look ugly and run down.
dawhizkid 8y ago
If I decide to buy a place, my preference would be a small, functional, well lit, very well designed place in a dense urban center with good public transit.
coldtea 8y ago
>24/7 doorman means someone to sign for packages. Sounds like the most insignificant of concerns. >A community of people who presumably are in your socioeconomic class will be living with you. These are folks you can interact with and depending on your stage in life you may potentially do business with, befriend, start children’s play groups with, or even date/marry. A community of people that rarely interact the way neighbors in nearby homes do. >There will tend to be more options for healthy foods Assuming these people regularly eat outside, which automatically lowers the health factor of their food compared to home cooked.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  It's completely unsupported to say that people in apartments socialize less than people in houses, and likely opposite the truth. Neigbors pas each other constantly, and can visit easily regardless of weather. Children have more peers to play with. Cities have more options for groceries and grocery delivery.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >It's completely unsupported to say that people in apartments socialize less than people in houses, and likely opposite the truth. I've never seen apartment residents socialize more than suburban neighbors anywhere I lived or visited. I don't have numbers, but the isolation of apartment living in cities is a common trope in movies and literature, and a constant complaint of people moving to cities or going away from them.
    - tormeh 8y ago
      I've never understood this complaint. Do these people not have hobbies? Just use Google and Facebook and you'll find a group or ten of kindred spirits to join.
      - coldtea 8y ago
        They also have jobs and families and city commutes and other such stuff. It's also easy to see someone with a common interest during some 1-2 hour weekly session, and only that. In the end, the closed door few common areas of apartment buildings (not talking about expensive condos with shared pools and stuff), means people see each other and interact less than some neighbors in a rural/suburban neighborhood.
fjsolwmv 8y ago
> A community of people who presumably are in your socioeconomic class will be living with you Societywide, that's a huge bug, not a feature, but suburbs have the same problem, and cities mitigate it by having all classes cllose together in public.

by cenal 8y ago

esotericn 8y ago

Repeating my post from below: I'm obviously simplifying. Luxury apartments downtown are different to the sort of monstrosities you see in suburbs. Moving from a family home in a suburb into the city =/= moving from a family home into a block of flats on the same street. The latter is what I am calling a 'strict downgrade'.

meddlepal 8y ago
I think you're getting downvoted here or at least misunderstood because in America, suburban apartments are usually very nice in their own regard. So people don't see them as downgrades unless you actually need the space of a full house (eg. For raising a family)
- virmundi 8y ago
  There is also a cultural difference. While at Oxford, the family that I stayed with had a garden. British people love their gardens. It wasn't much of a garden, but it was in Oxford, and it was their little piece of barely green soil. Americans have their land of course. I have my own equivalent garden. The difference is scarcity. I can travel a continent and still buy a garden relatively cheap. The UK? Not so much.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >It wasn't much of a garden, but it was in Oxford, and it was their little piece of barely green soil. I'm not sure about this "barely green" thing. Haven't been to Oxford, but I've visited Cambridge, and the gardens there are magnificently green.
    - virmundi 8y ago
      Green is relative. Florida has much more greenery that Oxford. Plus, these owners ran a house of protection for Africans that survived their village being slaughtered. They had a bit more pressing things to worry about than making a great garden.
- esotericn 8y ago
  Possibly. I think the misunderstanding comes from making a comparison that I obviously haven't attempted to, and that no reasonable person would (basically, a strawman). I can't see how a suburban apartment can be as nice as a suburban house unless you're making a cost argument. Yes, perhaps an apartment at price X is better than a house at price X. (Perhaps at price X a house doesn't even exist). The point is that someone who already owns a decent home doesn't have to make that decision, and that describes huge swathes of the city. The financial decision is for newcomers who are attempting to push these people out (or push them in to inferior conditions). If you have a 4 bedroom semi in Zone 4 London then I cannot see an equivalent apartment. It doesn't even make sense to me. No apartment block on the same street could be nicer. Only if you compared it with, say, some skyscraper in the City does it make sense to even talk about it, and that's a complete lifestyle change.
  - Aeolun 8y ago
    As he said, some suburban appartments in the US look more like hotels (and $500/month HOA on top of your rent). In the UK (and most of Europe) the suburban apartment is most akin to a concrete box.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Saying it’s suburban housing, or detached homes is a pure straw man argument as people can move from a suburban home to an apartment in the city very easily. If you can sell a house, move to an apartment and net X00,000 $ that’s very attractive. So price difference are really part of the equation. Also, people might prefer a detached home for ~30 years when having kids, but their is a constant stream of people exiting that life stage. How and where to downsize is a real question people deal with daily.
rorykoehler 8y ago
This depends entirely on the city and culture. A lot of European cities don't follow the modern you describe at all.

mattrjacobs 8y ago

I completely agreed with you until I had kids and then the opposite was true. I don’t think either option is good or bad- just different trade offs.

scarejunba 8y ago
I grew up in a sort of building style you don't see in America. High rise flats built around a courtyard/park. Lots of room for kids to play in, lots of built-in friends of all ages groups for the kids, flats big enough for families (shared rooms for younger kids is fine). Honestly, if those existed in America I could think of nothing better to raise children in.
- gedy 8y ago
  The did/do exist as "projects", and developed a horrible reputation in the US for other reasons and there was a backlash against them.
  - scarejunba 8y ago
    Interesting, so that style was practised mostly in social housing projects? I could see how that could lead to problems especially with drug crime and guns and whatnot. About the worst thing that ever happened where I grew up was a foul on the basketball court.
    - gedy 8y ago
      Yes I believe housing projects were the first/main use of that style here. I know I have an instinctive negative reaction to them (mainly though from TV shows focusing on the horrors of projects).
      - scarejunba 8y ago
        Very interesting. Thank you for sharing. I live in America too, now, but I haven’t ever actually seen the projects and the ones in The Wire aren’t quite what I was thinking of. Those look ugly and run down.

dawhizkid 8y ago

If I decide to buy a place, my preference would be a small, functional, well lit, very well designed place in a dense urban center with good public transit.

coldtea 8y ago

>24/7 doorman means someone to sign for packages. Sounds like the most insignificant of concerns. >A community of people who presumably are in your socioeconomic class will be living with you. These are folks you can interact with and depending on your stage in life you may potentially do business with, befriend, start children’s play groups with, or even date/marry. A community of people that rarely interact the way neighbors in nearby homes do. >There will tend to be more options for healthy foods Assuming these people regularly eat outside, which automatically lowers the health factor of their food compared to home cooked.

fjsolwmv 8y ago
It's completely unsupported to say that people in apartments socialize less than people in houses, and likely opposite the truth. Neigbors pas each other constantly, and can visit easily regardless of weather. Children have more peers to play with. Cities have more options for groceries and grocery delivery.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >It's completely unsupported to say that people in apartments socialize less than people in houses, and likely opposite the truth. I've never seen apartment residents socialize more than suburban neighbors anywhere I lived or visited. I don't have numbers, but the isolation of apartment living in cities is a common trope in movies and literature, and a constant complaint of people moving to cities or going away from them.
  - tormeh 8y ago
    I've never understood this complaint. Do these people not have hobbies? Just use Google and Facebook and you'll find a group or ten of kindred spirits to join.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      They also have jobs and families and city commutes and other such stuff. It's also easy to see someone with a common interest during some 1-2 hour weekly session, and only that. In the end, the closed door few common areas of apartment buildings (not talking about expensive condos with shared pools and stuff), means people see each other and interact less than some neighbors in a rural/suburban neighborhood.

fjsolwmv 8y ago

> A community of people who presumably are in your socioeconomic class will be living with you Societywide, that's a huge bug, not a feature, but suburbs have the same problem, and cities mitigate it by having all classes cllose together in public.