17 ms·

I don't have any sympathy for a site that purposely cripples the web mobile site to force you to install their app. They lock you out of pictures after around

I don't have any sympathy for a site that purposely cripples the web mobile site to force you to install their app. They lock you out of pictures after around 20 so you have to go to desktop or install their crappy app. Yelp will not be missed.

faitswulff 8y ago
What do you use instead?
- meritt 8y ago
  Restaurants: Tripadvisor, Google, Zagat Service Providers: Homeadvisor, Angie's List
  - njarboe 8y ago
    FYI, Zagat's parent company is Google/Alphabet.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > FYI, Zagat's parent company is Google/Alphabet. No, it's not. Google sold Zagat in March to The Infatuation.
      - ghaff 8y ago
        I forgot about that! I've been using Zagat since back in the day when you filled out a form for some city you were familiar with and they sent you a free restaurant guidebook for that city in exchange. I still think they're the best guide (except possibly for the local newspaper site) for people who have a somewhat foodie orientation. But they only cover a relatively small number of US cities.
      - njarboe 8y ago
        I stand corrected.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
  - kbenson 8y ago
    Obligatory TripAdvisor fake restaurant story.[1] Not that it means TripAdvisor doesn't provide value, it's just a wonderful story. :) 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861136
  - Finnucane 8y ago
    Angie's List is less useful than it should be. It seems that the reviews are largely promotion-driven (i.e., vendors that offer coupons get reviews, others get no reviews).
  - chaostheory 8y ago
    Homeadvisor is just not a good source for service providers, especially when compared to Yelp. Angie's list is a little better, but Yelp still beats it. Maybe it's because Angie's List started as a paid service which limits the number of reviewers, even though it slightly improves review authenticity
  - briandear 8y ago
    Angie’s List lost me with their user-hostile behavior. For example, cancelling an account required a phone call, also you can’t change your membership location at will, so if you spend any time outside of your local area, they didn’t let you see information for other locales.
- stephencoyner 8y ago
  Google maps reviews is just as good if not better in some ways IMO. That's what I use as an alternative.
  - Upvoter33 8y ago
    This is really really not true. I did a local comparison any Google map reviews were REALLY REALLY bad whereas Yelp knew what the good restaurants were. Not even close, at least in my area.
    - untog 8y ago
      I don't think you can really use any absolutes here. It depends very heavily on where in the world you are.
    - roymurdock 8y ago
      ditto, google maps reviews are weirdly inflated with almost all restaurants having 4+ stars, even terrible ones yelp's review quality has been on the decline as of late though. it used to be great
    - ilikehurdles 8y ago
      Seconding this. Yelp reviews have their problems but at least there's always content in the review and I can validate some of the reviewer's reputation if they're being suspiciously positive/negative in their review. Most google ratings I see have very few reviews behind them, and most of them are under a sentence long.
      - freehunter 8y ago
        Someone on Google reviewed my local cemetery. One star rating, because it made them sad to drive past it. Why even allow reviews on a cemetery?!
        komali2 8y ago
        https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pacific+Ocean/@-0.1930911,123.1058866,3z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!1m5!8m4!1e1!2s102045158975530137612!3m1!1e1!3m6!1s0x76ed042c30f318eb:0x8eff14a070876cbc!8m2!3d-8.783195!4d-124.508523!9m1!1b1?hl=en-US https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pacific+Ocean/@-0.1930911,... Google Reviews of the Pacific Ocean.
- Glyptodon 8y ago
  I don't know if this is accurate, but I have the sense that Trip Advisor is kind of taking over the space, at least for food and cultural stuff.
  - ilikehurdles 8y ago
    I find TripAdvisor extremely inflated and I somehow always end up at tourist traps using it when I'm countries where yelp isn't available. It's more useful for finding out about sights but I avoid it for food and services.
    - Glyptodon 8y ago
      I'm not intending to say that it's good, just that it seems a lot more widely used than Yelp lately.
      - ilikehurdles 8y ago
        It does depend on where in the world you are too.
    - deadmetheny 8y ago
      TripAdvisor is hilariously easy to game[1] [1]https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/434gqw/i-made-my-shed-the-top-rated-restaurant-on-tripadvisor https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/434gqw/i-made-my-shed-the...
  - prepend 8y ago
    Trip advisor is turning into the experts exchange of reviews. Great seo, not useful material. I was recently trying to find the best fish restaurant in Key West and TripAdvisor was all over results with the same stupid results.
- rwbt 8y ago
  This might not be helpful, but I decided to rely on serendipity. Sometimes I feel like we think too much about finding the best of the 'best' and we rely on expert opinions of the crowd instead of taking a chance ourselves and trying out new things.
  - tjr225 8y ago
    It is helpful, this just might not be the most receptive crowd. I agree with you 100% fwiw.
    - jack_pp 8y ago
      You might be surprised, I too agree
      - knrz 8y ago
        One more agree-er for the bunch ;-)
  - thx11389793 8y ago
    my personal method when out and about is "ask a stranger," with using my hand computer as a backup. i delight in answering these questions as well, so i'm inclined to believe people generally don't mind.
    - freehunter 8y ago
      I travel a lot and talk to a lot of people and I can tell you from my experience that a lot of people don't know the best restaurants in their town. Most people haven't eaten at all of them to make the comparison. The best way to find out is to have some way to ask a bunch of people then compare their collective results and see what everyone's experience adds up to. That quickly starts looking a lot like Yelp.
      - Loughla 8y ago
        I travel a lot, and I never ask for the 'best' place to eat. What you ask is very, very important. I always ask what their favorite place to eat is. That is a different result. What I've noticed is if you ask a random stranger what the 'best' is, you get the same generic, expensive fusion something made into a paste cuisine. If you ask their favorite, you find small, off-the-wall places with terrible selection, but amazing food.
- ilikehurdles 8y ago
  Not the OP, and I find that yelp is in a better league than the competition (google, tripadvisor), but I tend to look on Eater.
- vmchale 8y ago
  I just avoid user-hostile sites tbh. I don't go to expensive restaurants so if it's a miss I just avoid it in the future.
- briandear 8y ago
  I use TripAdvisor. Much less mean and agressive in terms of review quality as what I have experienced with Yelp.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- dawhizkid 8y ago
  I like Foursquare though I find the quality of the data/reviews are spotty depending on the city (NYC is good; SF is only so so)
notyourwork 8y ago
100% agree, I don’t need or want an app for yelp. The web can support their use case entirely so I close it whenever I get redirected to yelp.
rhacker 8y ago
It's sad but many companies have tunnel vision - probably getting thousands of reports of people complaining of this. Unfortunately they think, for whatever reason, those are all outliers. It takes a good scathing top-rated post on HN to let them see. I'm sure a developer at Yelp that has been complaining to management for years is going to take this thread and show someone that can change it. But I think it's too late.
- askar_yu 8y ago
  Exactly. One of my favourite apps, Quora, also did it some time ago (may be they still do) - forcing you to install the app if you're browsing them on mobile. I remember being shocked - shocked because while this (horrible) practice became a common thing, I'd always though of Quora highly, and assumed they'd never do something silly like that, but no, they'd disappointed.
ChuckMcM 8y ago
I don't disagree, what I wonder about is how management sees this as a better alternative than serving their customers. I expect it is a "damned if you do damned if you don't" type situation. They are at a tremendous disadvantage as a 'web' experience because you're getting there through Google, Facebook, or Bing rather than landing directly on their page so they have already paid that platform to put you in front. The App means they have full control over the experience and can charge restaurants directly to move them around in the search results (more revenue). So at some point I presume the go full "Yellow Pages" and just charge venues a monthly fee to appear at all in their pages. That works if they are generating significant foot traffic into the venue but fails if they can't connect the app/website use with the visit. All in all I don't see how they can make a business here.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  So at some point I presume the go full "Yellow Pages" and just charge venues a monthly fee to appear at all in their pages. That works if they are generating significant foot traffic into the venue but fails if they can't connect the app/website use with the visit. I think it's useful at this point to ask why various directories had value during their heyday. The "Yellow Pages" had value, simply because there wasn't as comprehensive a localized listing otherwise. Yelp had value at first, because the reviews and ratings combined with the location search were super useful. Unfortunately, too many people realized how valuable this was and the gaming of the system on all sides started, greatly reducing the usefulness of the Yelp directory. Google might be able to create a such directory based solely on traffic and AI identification of the type of business? Could AI identify long lines outside of restaurants? Maybe Google should buy Yelp, which would solve the "pay Google up front" conundrum. Whatever IP Yelp has which killed the "near" searches on Google would also cease to be an impediment to Google.
  - ubercore 8y ago
    > Could AI identify long lines outside of restaurants Google already gives you the hours that restaurants are busiest, so they basically have this info
kadabra9 8y ago
I couldn't agree more. Hopefully this is a wakeup call to Yelp and other slimy sites that try to extort users into downloading their app. Also, small pro-tip for anyone unaware. If you are on mobile web and on Yelp, but don't want to download the app, hold down the refresh button, and select 'Request Desktop Site' - this will load the non mobile version of the site that will not force you to download the app. The UI isn't as great as the mobile optimized site, but hey at least you can read reviews without being extorted into downloading an app.
- jimmy1 8y ago
  reddit and imgur are two of the worst offenders as well.
- jkchu 8y ago
  This may be an unpopular opinion, but is Yelp really being slimy by pushing users to download their app? Seems to me it's more that they are being too cheap/lazy to properly maintain both a mobile app and a mobile site. Certainly not behavior that benefits their users, but I feel slimy implies that they are doing something dishonest.
  - apl002 8y ago
    "Seems to me it's more that they are being too cheap/lazy to properly maintain both a mobile app and a mobile site." The article is talking about their financial struggles but they are too cheap and lazy to maintain multiple platforms?
  - huehehue 8y ago
    Here's a screenshot of the mobile site: https://i.imgur.com/WDDnKJk.png https://i.imgur.com/WDDnKJk.png In the top left, there's an "open in app" button. It's not very intrusive, it's just sitting there in the header to remind you that there's an app. The rest of the website looks usable, right? Nope. Click on "open in app": redirected to app store Click on user's avatar: redirected to app store Click on "read more": redirected to app store Click on one of the reactions: redirected to app store It's dishonest because the site isn't interactive at all -- there's a huge overlay that prevents any meaningful interaction with the site. It's quite the opposite of lazy, because there's a functional site under there, they just refuse to let people use it.
ransom1538 8y ago
"I don't have any sympathy for a site that purposely cripples the web mobile site to force you to install their app." They did this in response to Google. Their clicks from the google search results has been down for years [1]. What should they have done? [1] https://www.seroundtable.com/yelp-ceo-on-google-interstitials-penalty-22593.html https://www.seroundtable.com/yelp-ceo-on-google-interstitial...
- chmod775 8y ago
  > They did this in response to Google. Their clicks from the google search results has been down for years [1]. What should they have done? Create a service people will actually want to use? They got a penalty for creating a frustrating experience, so they replaced it with another kind of frustrating experience?
  - ransom1538 8y ago
    "Create a service people will actually want to use?" They did. It worked great and was awesome. One day, a large company changed it's rules removing most of the traffic pointed to it. It had to make changes. One attempt to survive was to move traffic to the app. I don't understand why trying to survive as a business is bad. Maybe people didn't want to click the close button on the app link -- I don't see how this should end Yelp and let google have more unchecked power to the small business reviews.
    - chmod775 8y ago
      If they were that great they wouldn't need Google to send a steady stream of new users their way. People would seek out Yelp directly. But even the search term "Yelp" itself it down roughly 50% since 2014, suggesting that less and less people would actively and directly seek out that page. When I search "Chinese Restaurant XY" and Google ranks results that would hide the information I seek behind annoying interstitials lowly - then I can't blame them. They're doing something that is in my best interest as their user.
      - 8y ago
makecheck 8y ago
Mobile browsers should differentiate the style of links with URLs that resolve to apps. I am tired of tapping links expecting to remain in Safari and having useless “open in app?” prompts instead. I’m not IN an app, I’m in a browser; I want to use the browser. And when cancelling the prompt gets you nothing, it really feels like Yelp is screaming “NO SOUP FOR YOU!”.
- Scoundreller 8y ago
  Reddit keeps asking me if I want to download their app or Open in Safari... regardless of which browser I’m using. Not every iOS user is using Safari!!!!
  - enitihas 8y ago
    It does the same on Android asking to open in "Chrome", regardless of whether I am using Brave or Firefox. However, the click always opens in the current browser for me regardless of clicking on chrome.
  - olyjohn 8y ago
    If someone sends you a link in Hangouts on iOS, it asks you if you want to open it in Chrome or Safari. I don't have Chrome installed, and I use Firefox on my iPhone. Deleted Hangouts after that and only use Hangouts in Pidgin on a desktop.
  - untog 8y ago
    To be fair, iOS offers no capability to list the browsers a user has installed on their phone. So they have to assume Safari, which is a fair assumption for 90% of users, I imagine.
    - Scoundreller 8y ago
      Doesn’t the browser string make it clear which browser is being used?
    - prepend 8y ago
internet555 8y ago
Strong agree. Unfortunately, it seems that many sites do this. Many I know refuse to use them for this reason.
JustSomeNobody 8y ago
Can someone in marketing help me make sense of this, please? If I'm accessing a site on the web, what makes them so sure I'd access them more frequently if I had their app? Personally, if I'm on a web page, I am actually much more likely to never install their app if I have a bad experience.
- DerfNet 8y ago
  it's not that you're accessing them more frequently, it's that installing an app gives them more access to you.
- citrablue 8y ago
  Because the company can control the experience more than in a browser. No need to worry about AdBlocking. Also, they can nag you to allow push notifications. Companies like reddit and yelp are not focused on the customer experience. They're trying to boost their KPIs. Perhaps, early on, those were customer-centric, but we now live in an age where a path to revenue is more important than ever. So we get obnoxious nagware. The only thing is to look elsewhere.
- prepend 8y ago
  I think they know the experience is poor. But the economics are worth it to annoy x% of users so y% install apps that make them more than the x% through web.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jimmy1 8y ago
Unfortunately, Yelp's dead corpse will be drug around a little bit longer because of Apple Map's dependency on it.
tinyhouse 8y ago
I stopped using Yelp exactly because this reason! Google let you read reviews without using the app. I had the same issue with TripAdvisor but I think they don't do it anymore (not sure).
wilg 8y ago
I think one of the most interesting/telling user experience things in the industry today is why people feel so strongly about not installing apps. It seems like it spans most people, from novice users all the way to technology experts. Personally, I've never understood it, since nearly every mobile website is terrible. I prefer installing the app. Seems like a key problem for mobile OS vendors to solve. If you don't like it, why not?
- aluminussoma 8y ago
  Because most apps require far more permissions than what is necessary in a browser. Who knows what they are sending over from your phone. It's akin to having to install a program on your laptop to view a website instead of using the browser.
- hvs 8y ago
  Because I don't want to install an app on my phone for something I use once a month. And if you can structure a restaurant review site for mobile, you have no business building anything.
- Iolaum 8y ago
  Because mobile apps make our mobile phones data collection devices. When accessing a service from the browser you have a lot more control on what information it receives about you. I am not saying most users think like that, providing anecdotal feedback here.
  - oh_hello 8y ago
    On iOS and now newer versions of Android you are able to individually grant and revoke permissions. What information are you expecting them to extract via the app that you can't block?
    - Iolaum 8y ago
      My phone uses android 8.1 API. I know about granular permissions but in practice this does not always work. For example the PlayMemories app from Sony - to use with Sony digital cameras - does not open at all (actually it opens to tell you to give the permission and doesn't do anything else) unless you give it location permissions. Why do I need to tell my location to an app whose use is to wirelessly grab the pictures from my camera to my phone?
sys_64738 8y ago
This. I don't install apps as they're usually trojans trying to steal all your info. They might offer functionality but they're usually sneakily stealing your other data.
apl002 8y ago
just curious why you're against downloading the app? I work on native apps and just wondering why you have a preference for mobile web.
- rchaud 8y ago
  I'm not the person you're replying to, but here goes: It's not 2011 anymore, back when the mobile web was trash because companies maintained both a desktop site and a severly gimped "m.desktop.com" site. Back then you pretty much had to have apps if you wanted to capture the mobile market. Today, we have mature Add to Home Screen capability, GPS support, push notifications, widespread support for CSS3 hardware acceleration, PWAs, offline capabilities and much more. You can now make Uber and Lyft trips on the mobile web. That is a use case where I had previously thought I would always need to have the app installed. So with that in mind, why would I even want to open the dumpster fire that is Google Play/App Store in 2018? If it's a new company I haven't heard of, I am sure as hell not about to open the app store and download > 50MB on my data plan to check you out.
  - apl002 8y ago
    you can add push notification from mobile web? I suppose i see the attempts for me to enable desktop notifications but ive never seen them on mobile web before. Feels weird to applaud add to home screen but not want the app. Also im on wifi so often that i guess 50mb to download an app is a non issue for me. I am biased because I build native apps vs web apps but ive always preferred a rich native experience and design vs the web. To each their own!
    - lucasverra 8y ago
      No, IOS does not allow notification in browser [1]. >Note: This document pertains to OS X only. Notifications for websites do not appear on iOS. [1] : https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/NetworkingInternet/Conceptual/NotificationProgrammingGuideForWebsites/Introduction/Introduction.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ne... P.S: not assuming IOS is mobile, yes assuming significant amount of mobile economy is IOS browsers
kibwen 8y ago
Let's also call out Venmo and Google Pay (nee Google Wallet) in this hall of shame, both of which removed the ability to send and receive funds from their website (both mobile and desktop) in favor of strongarming you into installing the app to do so (get bent if you don't have a smartphone, I guess?). It would seem that "entering a number into a form" is a feature that is too sophisticated for the web platform to properly support (alternatively, perhaps we are meant to believe that such a thing is beyond the abilities of Google engineers?).
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Let's also call out Venmo and Google Pay (nee Google Wallet) in this hall of shame, both of which removed the ability to send and receive funds from their website (both mobile and desktop) in favor of strongarming you into installing the app to do so (get bent if you don't have a smartphone, I guess?). Er, just checked and the Google Pay Send and Request money feature is accessible from both mobile and desktop site (well, I was lazy and checked both from mobile using “view desktop site” on and off.) So, let's not call them out for something they absolutely didn't do.
  - kibwen 8y ago
    I'm simply citing this email from Google themselves that I received in July, telling me that "To keep sending or requesting money, you’ll need to use the Google Pay app." This was within a month of receiving an email from Venmo telling me that "Venmo is phasing out some of the functionality on the Venmo.com website over the coming months. We are beginning to remove the ability to pay and charge someone on Venmo.com. Over time, you may see less functionality on our website." If Google has reversed course on that plan I'd be quite happy because it's totally baffling, but for all I know they're just taking their time with it like Venmo is. In the meantime, I went back to paying friends with cash and checks.
    - tacomonstrous 8y ago
      You're probably thinking of the email sent when they switched money-transfer features from Wallet to Pay.
crunchlibrarian 8y ago
I haven't installed a new app in like 18 months. I'm done with that song and dance, tired of my device always being the product, especially after I just spent $1000 on a phone. You better have mobile web figured out properly or you're not getting me as a customer.
admn2 8y ago
More insultingly, if you have the app and click Open in App, they take you to the App Store even if you have the app installed.
systematical 8y ago
For me its the yelp reviewers themselves I dislike. That South Park episode really nailed. Oh you're a big Yelp reviewer, cool...
village-idiot 8y ago
Reddit gets the runner up trophy here. No Reddit, I am not installing your fucking app. I clicked decline a dozen times in a row, get the hint.
- patrioticaction 8y ago
  But don't you want to reduce their bandwidth usage?
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    Nope. Don’t care
monksy 8y ago
If you think that's bad. You only get 3 reviews when querying the API per business. Also, they aggressively fight scraping with traps. (For those who try to pull the business phone numbers, or the ones who try to get the full reviews). Ever notice how you get a 404 occassionaly when going through the list of businesses? That was a scraping trap.
nickrivadeneira 8y ago
Just to give some balance to the echo chamber here, I would miss Yelp. I never try to use the mobile site, so I've never felt that pain. Most people I know are in the same boat. It's pretty silly to suggest that nobody would miss Yelp.
- archon810 8y ago
  I just visited a country without Yelp and really missed it. Google reviews were quite active, and I was pretty impressed with automatic translations into English, but Yelp would have been a helpful tool I'm used to as well.
smsm42 8y ago
I am not very happy with some of Yelp UX decisions, but if their service goes down, it will be missed very much by me. I know their ratings are not always reliable, but I haven't found any better alternative. It is somewhat weird that one of the obvious things that people started working at decades ago, still doesn't seem to have a satisfactory solution.
flattone 8y ago
Companies interacting with their customers the way gansters and drug dealers might ... So fun.
shaklee3 8y ago
Can you recommend something to find restaurants with a sufficient number of reviews to be meaningful? Yelp at least had a lot of users, even if many of the reviews were fake. Google reviews tends to inflate everything, so most restaurants have a higher score on Google reviews than they do on Yelp. It would be nice if someone solved the review problem for restaurants.
- elvinyung 8y ago
  I am convinced this no longer exists. (shameless plug ramble: [1]) It's too easy to inflate reviews now. [1] https://www.notion.so/The-Hyperreality-of-Big-Data-ae0aebb358c34d8a9b01eb61d3b77b48 https://www.notion.so/The-Hyperreality-of-Big-Data-ae0aebb35...
shaklee3 8y ago
Facebook is the same. Click on messenger on the web app, and it takes you to the play store.
- pfooti 8y ago
  you can still use mbasic.facebook.com to read your fb messages if you need it.
  - shaklee3 8y ago
    Thanks! Didn't know this existed.
cft 8y ago
Just check "Desktop site" checkbox in Chrome for Android menu. A bigger problem is the ethics of this company and its CEO.
mathattack 8y ago
I’m the opposite. I had to delete the mobile because of issues. Either way, seems like the times are passing them by.
manigandham 8y ago
Similar issue with Quora. Pop up blocks the site after a few scrolls, and there's no way to exit. Doesn't matter if you're in the middle of reading a long answer, the site just stops working.
- nathan_f77 8y ago
  Yeah, I find that really obnoxious. I've stopped reading the Quora email and clicking on links because of this. I actually have the Quora app installed, but I think they must have screwed up the app links in the email, so it doesn't open the Quora app anymore (I'm on iOS, and I use the Spark app for emails.) So it's just a bug that opens the browser instead of the app, then they hide the whole page with a popup and there's no way to continue reading the answer. Really frustrating. Anyway, I guess they've done a lot of testing for the popup and it's better for their business model. Maybe they can show more ads in the app. But not sure why they can't just show the same ads on the website. The weekly digest email is actually great and it would keep me coming back to Quora, but they've ruined the whole experience.
- makecheck 8y ago
  Why do companies think this is “good”? They basically assault the very subset of people that actually stuck around longer than most, actually showed some interest in their content. Instead of encouraging that to continue, they cut you off. Imagine if you were in a physical store. Then, after 2 minutes of walking around, someone suddenly pulled you aside, erected a bunch of cardboard walls around you and said “sorry, if you want to keep looking, you need to sign up for a store account!”. You’d mutter some curses and walk straight out the door, obviously; exactly zero people would say “why, sure!”.
alphakappa 8y ago
I agree, the Facebook mobile website is shamelessly bad. That's what we are talking about, right?
masonic 8y ago
Install the app, and they get all your Contacts, fine location, tap your mic, etc.
Fjolsvith 8y ago
Yelp really tried to get me to advertise my business with them. I use Adwords regularly. However, I chose not to engage with them, even to fully register my business with them, because of their reviews policy, and the drama surrounding trying to fix incorrect or slanderous reviews.

faitswulff 8y ago

What do you use instead?

meritt 8y ago
Restaurants: Tripadvisor, Google, Zagat Service Providers: Homeadvisor, Angie's List
- njarboe 8y ago
  FYI, Zagat's parent company is Google/Alphabet.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > FYI, Zagat's parent company is Google/Alphabet. No, it's not. Google sold Zagat in March to The Infatuation.
    - ghaff 8y ago
      I forgot about that! I've been using Zagat since back in the day when you filled out a form for some city you were familiar with and they sent you a free restaurant guidebook for that city in exchange. I still think they're the best guide (except possibly for the local newspaper site) for people who have a somewhat foodie orientation. But they only cover a relatively small number of US cities.
    - njarboe 8y ago
      I stand corrected.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- kbenson 8y ago
  Obligatory TripAdvisor fake restaurant story.[1] Not that it means TripAdvisor doesn't provide value, it's just a wonderful story. :) 1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861136 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15861136
- Finnucane 8y ago
  Angie's List is less useful than it should be. It seems that the reviews are largely promotion-driven (i.e., vendors that offer coupons get reviews, others get no reviews).
- chaostheory 8y ago
  Homeadvisor is just not a good source for service providers, especially when compared to Yelp. Angie's list is a little better, but Yelp still beats it. Maybe it's because Angie's List started as a paid service which limits the number of reviewers, even though it slightly improves review authenticity
- briandear 8y ago
  Angie’s List lost me with their user-hostile behavior. For example, cancelling an account required a phone call, also you can’t change your membership location at will, so if you spend any time outside of your local area, they didn’t let you see information for other locales.
stephencoyner 8y ago
Google maps reviews is just as good if not better in some ways IMO. That's what I use as an alternative.
- Upvoter33 8y ago
  This is really really not true. I did a local comparison any Google map reviews were REALLY REALLY bad whereas Yelp knew what the good restaurants were. Not even close, at least in my area.
  - untog 8y ago
    I don't think you can really use any absolutes here. It depends very heavily on where in the world you are.
  - roymurdock 8y ago
    ditto, google maps reviews are weirdly inflated with almost all restaurants having 4+ stars, even terrible ones yelp's review quality has been on the decline as of late though. it used to be great
  - ilikehurdles 8y ago
    Seconding this. Yelp reviews have their problems but at least there's always content in the review and I can validate some of the reviewer's reputation if they're being suspiciously positive/negative in their review. Most google ratings I see have very few reviews behind them, and most of them are under a sentence long.
    - freehunter 8y ago
      Someone on Google reviewed my local cemetery. One star rating, because it made them sad to drive past it. Why even allow reviews on a cemetery?!
      - komali2 8y ago
        https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pacific+Ocean/@-0.1930911,123.1058866,3z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!1m5!8m4!1e1!2s102045158975530137612!3m1!1e1!3m6!1s0x76ed042c30f318eb:0x8eff14a070876cbc!8m2!3d-8.783195!4d-124.508523!9m1!1b1?hl=en-US https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pacific+Ocean/@-0.1930911,... Google Reviews of the Pacific Ocean.
Glyptodon 8y ago
I don't know if this is accurate, but I have the sense that Trip Advisor is kind of taking over the space, at least for food and cultural stuff.
- ilikehurdles 8y ago
  I find TripAdvisor extremely inflated and I somehow always end up at tourist traps using it when I'm countries where yelp isn't available. It's more useful for finding out about sights but I avoid it for food and services.
  - Glyptodon 8y ago
    I'm not intending to say that it's good, just that it seems a lot more widely used than Yelp lately.
    - ilikehurdles 8y ago
      It does depend on where in the world you are too.
  - deadmetheny 8y ago
    TripAdvisor is hilariously easy to game[1] [1]https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/434gqw/i-made-my-shed-the-top-rated-restaurant-on-tripadvisor https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/434gqw/i-made-my-shed-the...
- prepend 8y ago
  Trip advisor is turning into the experts exchange of reviews. Great seo, not useful material. I was recently trying to find the best fish restaurant in Key West and TripAdvisor was all over results with the same stupid results.
rwbt 8y ago
This might not be helpful, but I decided to rely on serendipity. Sometimes I feel like we think too much about finding the best of the 'best' and we rely on expert opinions of the crowd instead of taking a chance ourselves and trying out new things.
- tjr225 8y ago
  It is helpful, this just might not be the most receptive crowd. I agree with you 100% fwiw.
  - jack_pp 8y ago
    You might be surprised, I too agree
    - knrz 8y ago
      One more agree-er for the bunch ;-)
- thx11389793 8y ago
  my personal method when out and about is "ask a stranger," with using my hand computer as a backup. i delight in answering these questions as well, so i'm inclined to believe people generally don't mind.
  - freehunter 8y ago
    I travel a lot and talk to a lot of people and I can tell you from my experience that a lot of people don't know the best restaurants in their town. Most people haven't eaten at all of them to make the comparison. The best way to find out is to have some way to ask a bunch of people then compare their collective results and see what everyone's experience adds up to. That quickly starts looking a lot like Yelp.
    - Loughla 8y ago
      I travel a lot, and I never ask for the 'best' place to eat. What you ask is very, very important. I always ask what their favorite place to eat is. That is a different result. What I've noticed is if you ask a random stranger what the 'best' is, you get the same generic, expensive fusion something made into a paste cuisine. If you ask their favorite, you find small, off-the-wall places with terrible selection, but amazing food.
ilikehurdles 8y ago
Not the OP, and I find that yelp is in a better league than the competition (google, tripadvisor), but I tend to look on Eater.
vmchale 8y ago
I just avoid user-hostile sites tbh. I don't go to expensive restaurants so if it's a miss I just avoid it in the future.
briandear 8y ago
I use TripAdvisor. Much less mean and agressive in terms of review quality as what I have experienced with Yelp.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
dawhizkid 8y ago
I like Foursquare though I find the quality of the data/reviews are spotty depending on the city (NYC is good; SF is only so so)

notyourwork 8y ago

100% agree, I don’t need or want an app for yelp. The web can support their use case entirely so I close it whenever I get redirected to yelp.

rhacker 8y ago

It's sad but many companies have tunnel vision - probably getting thousands of reports of people complaining of this. Unfortunately they think, for whatever reason, those are all outliers. It takes a good scathing top-rated post on HN to let them see. I'm sure a developer at Yelp that has been complaining to management for years is going to take this thread and show someone that can change it. But I think it's too late.

askar_yu 8y ago
Exactly. One of my favourite apps, Quora, also did it some time ago (may be they still do) - forcing you to install the app if you're browsing them on mobile. I remember being shocked - shocked because while this (horrible) practice became a common thing, I'd always though of Quora highly, and assumed they'd never do something silly like that, but no, they'd disappointed.

ChuckMcM 8y ago

I don't disagree, what I wonder about is how management sees this as a better alternative than serving their customers. I expect it is a "damned if you do damned if you don't" type situation. They are at a tremendous disadvantage as a 'web' experience because you're getting there through Google, Facebook, or Bing rather than landing directly on their page so they have already paid that platform to put you in front. The App means they have full control over the experience and can charge restaurants directly to move them around in the search results (more revenue). So at some point I presume the go full "Yellow Pages" and just charge venues a monthly fee to appear at all in their pages. That works if they are generating significant foot traffic into the venue but fails if they can't connect the app/website use with the visit. All in all I don't see how they can make a business here.

stcredzero 8y ago
So at some point I presume the go full "Yellow Pages" and just charge venues a monthly fee to appear at all in their pages. That works if they are generating significant foot traffic into the venue but fails if they can't connect the app/website use with the visit. I think it's useful at this point to ask why various directories had value during their heyday. The "Yellow Pages" had value, simply because there wasn't as comprehensive a localized listing otherwise. Yelp had value at first, because the reviews and ratings combined with the location search were super useful. Unfortunately, too many people realized how valuable this was and the gaming of the system on all sides started, greatly reducing the usefulness of the Yelp directory. Google might be able to create a such directory based solely on traffic and AI identification of the type of business? Could AI identify long lines outside of restaurants? Maybe Google should buy Yelp, which would solve the "pay Google up front" conundrum. Whatever IP Yelp has which killed the "near" searches on Google would also cease to be an impediment to Google.
- ubercore 8y ago
  > Could AI identify long lines outside of restaurants Google already gives you the hours that restaurants are busiest, so they basically have this info

kadabra9 8y ago

I couldn't agree more. Hopefully this is a wakeup call to Yelp and other slimy sites that try to extort users into downloading their app. Also, small pro-tip for anyone unaware. If you are on mobile web and on Yelp, but don't want to download the app, hold down the refresh button, and select 'Request Desktop Site' - this will load the non mobile version of the site that will not force you to download the app. The UI isn't as great as the mobile optimized site, but hey at least you can read reviews without being extorted into downloading an app.

jimmy1 8y ago
reddit and imgur are two of the worst offenders as well.
jkchu 8y ago
This may be an unpopular opinion, but is Yelp really being slimy by pushing users to download their app? Seems to me it's more that they are being too cheap/lazy to properly maintain both a mobile app and a mobile site. Certainly not behavior that benefits their users, but I feel slimy implies that they are doing something dishonest.
- apl002 8y ago
  "Seems to me it's more that they are being too cheap/lazy to properly maintain both a mobile app and a mobile site." The article is talking about their financial struggles but they are too cheap and lazy to maintain multiple platforms?
- huehehue 8y ago
  Here's a screenshot of the mobile site: https://i.imgur.com/WDDnKJk.png https://i.imgur.com/WDDnKJk.png In the top left, there's an "open in app" button. It's not very intrusive, it's just sitting there in the header to remind you that there's an app. The rest of the website looks usable, right? Nope. Click on "open in app": redirected to app store Click on user's avatar: redirected to app store Click on "read more": redirected to app store Click on one of the reactions: redirected to app store It's dishonest because the site isn't interactive at all -- there's a huge overlay that prevents any meaningful interaction with the site. It's quite the opposite of lazy, because there's a functional site under there, they just refuse to let people use it.

ransom1538 8y ago

"I don't have any sympathy for a site that purposely cripples the web mobile site to force you to install their app." They did this in response to Google. Their clicks from the google search results has been down for years [1]. What should they have done? [1] https://www.seroundtable.com/yelp-ceo-on-google-interstitials-penalty-22593.html https://www.seroundtable.com/yelp-ceo-on-google-interstitial...

chmod775 8y ago
> They did this in response to Google. Their clicks from the google search results has been down for years [1]. What should they have done? Create a service people will actually want to use? They got a penalty for creating a frustrating experience, so they replaced it with another kind of frustrating experience?
- ransom1538 8y ago
  "Create a service people will actually want to use?" They did. It worked great and was awesome. One day, a large company changed it's rules removing most of the traffic pointed to it. It had to make changes. One attempt to survive was to move traffic to the app. I don't understand why trying to survive as a business is bad. Maybe people didn't want to click the close button on the app link -- I don't see how this should end Yelp and let google have more unchecked power to the small business reviews.
  - chmod775 8y ago
    If they were that great they wouldn't need Google to send a steady stream of new users their way. People would seek out Yelp directly. But even the search term "Yelp" itself it down roughly 50% since 2014, suggesting that less and less people would actively and directly seek out that page. When I search "Chinese Restaurant XY" and Google ranks results that would hide the information I seek behind annoying interstitials lowly - then I can't blame them. They're doing something that is in my best interest as their user.
    - 8y ago

makecheck 8y ago

Mobile browsers should differentiate the style of links with URLs that resolve to apps. I am tired of tapping links expecting to remain in Safari and having useless “open in app?” prompts instead. I’m not IN an app, I’m in a browser; I want to use the browser. And when cancelling the prompt gets you nothing, it really feels like Yelp is screaming “NO SOUP FOR YOU!”.

Scoundreller 8y ago
Reddit keeps asking me if I want to download their app or Open in Safari... regardless of which browser I’m using. Not every iOS user is using Safari!!!!
- enitihas 8y ago
  It does the same on Android asking to open in "Chrome", regardless of whether I am using Brave or Firefox. However, the click always opens in the current browser for me regardless of clicking on chrome.
- olyjohn 8y ago
  If someone sends you a link in Hangouts on iOS, it asks you if you want to open it in Chrome or Safari. I don't have Chrome installed, and I use Firefox on my iPhone. Deleted Hangouts after that and only use Hangouts in Pidgin on a desktop.
- untog 8y ago
  To be fair, iOS offers no capability to list the browsers a user has installed on their phone. So they have to assume Safari, which is a fair assumption for 90% of users, I imagine.
  - Scoundreller 8y ago
    Doesn’t the browser string make it clear which browser is being used?
  - prepend 8y ago

internet555 8y ago

Strong agree. Unfortunately, it seems that many sites do this. Many I know refuse to use them for this reason.

JustSomeNobody 8y ago

Can someone in marketing help me make sense of this, please? If I'm accessing a site on the web, what makes them so sure I'd access them more frequently if I had their app? Personally, if I'm on a web page, I am actually much more likely to never install their app if I have a bad experience.

DerfNet 8y ago
it's not that you're accessing them more frequently, it's that installing an app gives them more access to you.
citrablue 8y ago
Because the company can control the experience more than in a browser. No need to worry about AdBlocking. Also, they can nag you to allow push notifications. Companies like reddit and yelp are not focused on the customer experience. They're trying to boost their KPIs. Perhaps, early on, those were customer-centric, but we now live in an age where a path to revenue is more important than ever. So we get obnoxious nagware. The only thing is to look elsewhere.
prepend 8y ago
I think they know the experience is poor. But the economics are worth it to annoy x% of users so y% install apps that make them more than the x% through web.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jimmy1 8y ago

Unfortunately, Yelp's dead corpse will be drug around a little bit longer because of Apple Map's dependency on it.

tinyhouse 8y ago

I stopped using Yelp exactly because this reason! Google let you read reviews without using the app. I had the same issue with TripAdvisor but I think they don't do it anymore (not sure).

wilg 8y ago

I think one of the most interesting/telling user experience things in the industry today is why people feel so strongly about not installing apps. It seems like it spans most people, from novice users all the way to technology experts. Personally, I've never understood it, since nearly every mobile website is terrible. I prefer installing the app. Seems like a key problem for mobile OS vendors to solve. If you don't like it, why not?

aluminussoma 8y ago
Because most apps require far more permissions than what is necessary in a browser. Who knows what they are sending over from your phone. It's akin to having to install a program on your laptop to view a website instead of using the browser.
hvs 8y ago
Because I don't want to install an app on my phone for something I use once a month. And if you can structure a restaurant review site for mobile, you have no business building anything.
Iolaum 8y ago
Because mobile apps make our mobile phones data collection devices. When accessing a service from the browser you have a lot more control on what information it receives about you. I am not saying most users think like that, providing anecdotal feedback here.
- oh_hello 8y ago
  On iOS and now newer versions of Android you are able to individually grant and revoke permissions. What information are you expecting them to extract via the app that you can't block?
  - Iolaum 8y ago
    My phone uses android 8.1 API. I know about granular permissions but in practice this does not always work. For example the PlayMemories app from Sony - to use with Sony digital cameras - does not open at all (actually it opens to tell you to give the permission and doesn't do anything else) unless you give it location permissions. Why do I need to tell my location to an app whose use is to wirelessly grab the pictures from my camera to my phone?

sys_64738 8y ago

This. I don't install apps as they're usually trojans trying to steal all your info. They might offer functionality but they're usually sneakily stealing your other data.

apl002 8y ago

just curious why you're against downloading the app? I work on native apps and just wondering why you have a preference for mobile web.

rchaud 8y ago
I'm not the person you're replying to, but here goes: It's not 2011 anymore, back when the mobile web was trash because companies maintained both a desktop site and a severly gimped "m.desktop.com" site. Back then you pretty much had to have apps if you wanted to capture the mobile market. Today, we have mature Add to Home Screen capability, GPS support, push notifications, widespread support for CSS3 hardware acceleration, PWAs, offline capabilities and much more. You can now make Uber and Lyft trips on the mobile web. That is a use case where I had previously thought I would always need to have the app installed. So with that in mind, why would I even want to open the dumpster fire that is Google Play/App Store in 2018? If it's a new company I haven't heard of, I am sure as hell not about to open the app store and download > 50MB on my data plan to check you out.
- apl002 8y ago
  you can add push notification from mobile web? I suppose i see the attempts for me to enable desktop notifications but ive never seen them on mobile web before. Feels weird to applaud add to home screen but not want the app. Also im on wifi so often that i guess 50mb to download an app is a non issue for me. I am biased because I build native apps vs web apps but ive always preferred a rich native experience and design vs the web. To each their own!
  - lucasverra 8y ago
    No, IOS does not allow notification in browser [1]. >Note: This document pertains to OS X only. Notifications for websites do not appear on iOS. [1] : https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/NetworkingInternet/Conceptual/NotificationProgrammingGuideForWebsites/Introduction/Introduction.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ne... P.S: not assuming IOS is mobile, yes assuming significant amount of mobile economy is IOS browsers

kibwen 8y ago

Let's also call out Venmo and Google Pay (nee Google Wallet) in this hall of shame, both of which removed the ability to send and receive funds from their website (both mobile and desktop) in favor of strongarming you into installing the app to do so (get bent if you don't have a smartphone, I guess?). It would seem that "entering a number into a form" is a feature that is too sophisticated for the web platform to properly support (alternatively, perhaps we are meant to believe that such a thing is beyond the abilities of Google engineers?).

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Let's also call out Venmo and Google Pay (nee Google Wallet) in this hall of shame, both of which removed the ability to send and receive funds from their website (both mobile and desktop) in favor of strongarming you into installing the app to do so (get bent if you don't have a smartphone, I guess?). Er, just checked and the Google Pay Send and Request money feature is accessible from both mobile and desktop site (well, I was lazy and checked both from mobile using “view desktop site” on and off.) So, let's not call them out for something they absolutely didn't do.
- kibwen 8y ago
  I'm simply citing this email from Google themselves that I received in July, telling me that "To keep sending or requesting money, you’ll need to use the Google Pay app." This was within a month of receiving an email from Venmo telling me that "Venmo is phasing out some of the functionality on the Venmo.com website over the coming months. We are beginning to remove the ability to pay and charge someone on Venmo.com. Over time, you may see less functionality on our website." If Google has reversed course on that plan I'd be quite happy because it's totally baffling, but for all I know they're just taking their time with it like Venmo is. In the meantime, I went back to paying friends with cash and checks.
  - tacomonstrous 8y ago
    You're probably thinking of the email sent when they switched money-transfer features from Wallet to Pay.

crunchlibrarian 8y ago

I haven't installed a new app in like 18 months. I'm done with that song and dance, tired of my device always being the product, especially after I just spent $1000 on a phone. You better have mobile web figured out properly or you're not getting me as a customer.

admn2 8y ago

More insultingly, if you have the app and click Open in App, they take you to the App Store even if you have the app installed.

systematical 8y ago

For me its the yelp reviewers themselves I dislike. That South Park episode really nailed. Oh you're a big Yelp reviewer, cool...

village-idiot 8y ago

Reddit gets the runner up trophy here. No Reddit, I am not installing your fucking app. I clicked decline a dozen times in a row, get the hint.

patrioticaction 8y ago
But don't you want to reduce their bandwidth usage?
- village-idiot 8y ago
  Nope. Don’t care

monksy 8y ago

If you think that's bad. You only get 3 reviews when querying the API per business. Also, they aggressively fight scraping with traps. (For those who try to pull the business phone numbers, or the ones who try to get the full reviews). Ever notice how you get a 404 occassionaly when going through the list of businesses? That was a scraping trap.

nickrivadeneira 8y ago

Just to give some balance to the echo chamber here, I would miss Yelp. I never try to use the mobile site, so I've never felt that pain. Most people I know are in the same boat. It's pretty silly to suggest that nobody would miss Yelp.

archon810 8y ago
I just visited a country without Yelp and really missed it. Google reviews were quite active, and I was pretty impressed with automatic translations into English, but Yelp would have been a helpful tool I'm used to as well.

smsm42 8y ago

I am not very happy with some of Yelp UX decisions, but if their service goes down, it will be missed very much by me. I know their ratings are not always reliable, but I haven't found any better alternative. It is somewhat weird that one of the obvious things that people started working at decades ago, still doesn't seem to have a satisfactory solution.

flattone 8y ago

Companies interacting with their customers the way gansters and drug dealers might ... So fun.

shaklee3 8y ago

Can you recommend something to find restaurants with a sufficient number of reviews to be meaningful? Yelp at least had a lot of users, even if many of the reviews were fake. Google reviews tends to inflate everything, so most restaurants have a higher score on Google reviews than they do on Yelp. It would be nice if someone solved the review problem for restaurants.

elvinyung 8y ago
I am convinced this no longer exists. (shameless plug ramble: [1]) It's too easy to inflate reviews now. [1] https://www.notion.so/The-Hyperreality-of-Big-Data-ae0aebb358c34d8a9b01eb61d3b77b48 https://www.notion.so/The-Hyperreality-of-Big-Data-ae0aebb35...

shaklee3 8y ago

Facebook is the same. Click on messenger on the web app, and it takes you to the play store.

pfooti 8y ago
you can still use mbasic.facebook.com to read your fb messages if you need it.
- shaklee3 8y ago
  Thanks! Didn't know this existed.

cft 8y ago

Just check "Desktop site" checkbox in Chrome for Android menu. A bigger problem is the ethics of this company and its CEO.

mathattack 8y ago

I’m the opposite. I had to delete the mobile because of issues. Either way, seems like the times are passing them by.

manigandham 8y ago

Similar issue with Quora. Pop up blocks the site after a few scrolls, and there's no way to exit. Doesn't matter if you're in the middle of reading a long answer, the site just stops working.

nathan_f77 8y ago
Yeah, I find that really obnoxious. I've stopped reading the Quora email and clicking on links because of this. I actually have the Quora app installed, but I think they must have screwed up the app links in the email, so it doesn't open the Quora app anymore (I'm on iOS, and I use the Spark app for emails.) So it's just a bug that opens the browser instead of the app, then they hide the whole page with a popup and there's no way to continue reading the answer. Really frustrating. Anyway, I guess they've done a lot of testing for the popup and it's better for their business model. Maybe they can show more ads in the app. But not sure why they can't just show the same ads on the website. The weekly digest email is actually great and it would keep me coming back to Quora, but they've ruined the whole experience.
makecheck 8y ago
Why do companies think this is “good”? They basically assault the very subset of people that actually stuck around longer than most, actually showed some interest in their content. Instead of encouraging that to continue, they cut you off. Imagine if you were in a physical store. Then, after 2 minutes of walking around, someone suddenly pulled you aside, erected a bunch of cardboard walls around you and said “sorry, if you want to keep looking, you need to sign up for a store account!”. You’d mutter some curses and walk straight out the door, obviously; exactly zero people would say “why, sure!”.

alphakappa 8y ago

I agree, the Facebook mobile website is shamelessly bad. That's what we are talking about, right?

masonic 8y ago

Install the app, and they get all your Contacts, fine location, tap your mic, etc.

Fjolsvith 8y ago

Yelp really tried to get me to advertise my business with them. I use Adwords regularly. However, I chose not to engage with them, even to fully register my business with them, because of their reviews policy, and the drama surrounding trying to fix incorrect or slanderous reviews.