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Loneliness Is Hard on the Brain
- qnsi 8y agoWhy is noone doing anything about this? There are no startups in this except for meetups. Why dont some non-profit organize meetings to find loneliness? Why there is no volunteering opportunities that focus on making friends first and only second helping the cause?
- erikpukinskis 8y agoI think something like what you're describing is possible.
- petra 8y agoThere are some non-profits working on that , and one company that matches seniors to college students for shared living(students save money, seniors get friendship and help).
- com2kid 8y agoMy startup is working on this. We are kinda-sorta meetup based, to the extent that we want people to get out of their houses and be active in their local communities, be it hiking, going to local venues, or hanging out at local parks. I'm writing this comment in-between writing the code to help this very problem. Anyone in the Seattle area who is interested in helping (early stage startup, boot strapped, app and back-end nearing completion) shoot me a message.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Felger 8y agoIn France we have urbeez ("On va sortir", litterally "let's get out"). ... Where you meet the same boring people each week, for years.
- xapata 8y ago> same boring people each week What do you think friends are? My uncle has been having dinner Friday nights with the same guys for the last 60 years. Every time he's about to go, he sighs and says, "I hate these guys."
- Felger 8y agoA friend is someone you know quite well, but still like.
- mamon 8y agoWhat do you mean noone? Forgot Tinder, Badoo and others? :)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- qnsi 8y agoThese are interested in romantic relationships. Of those only Bumble has BFF mode, but where I lived there were only 5 people to swipe on and it was super weird to judge your future friends based on looks
- PavlovsCat 8y ago> Why there is no volunteering opportunities that focus on making friends first and only second helping the cause? That's a really wonderful and underrated idea, actually. It may very well be the solution to a whole array of problems. This always warms my heart, and I know they made at least individual lives better, even if they didn't (yet) manage to change the situation single-handedly: http://thepeacefactory.org/ http://thepeacefactory.org/ > "We are a social online movement that connects people over the middle east"
- gowld 8y agoI recall an extremely successful startup from 2000 years ago that attacked this problem, and continues to this today. It's greatest competition is from all the otehr startups of the past 2 decades ;-)
- toyg 8y agoIf you think organised religion is about "making friends", you are very, very naive.
- xapata 8y agoDon't discount that motivation for being religious. I know many people who are church regulars, because that's their only social interaction.
- OpenBSD-reich 8y agoI've often thought there needs to be a 'church' for Atheists, basically a carbon copy of the modern churches but with jesus and bible stripped out completely. The social grouping is therapeudic and I think the religion meme hitches to this for continuation and longevity. The other possibility is to make dues-free fraternal organizations. Churches are payment-optional so why not payment-optional frats? Say dues payment halves bar prices (and no-dues prices are somewhat uncomfortably high).
- eksemplar 8y agoTech is probably a big part of the problem to begin with, I'm not sure more tech can fix it. Especially not if it's something like Tinder, where being attractive means you get all the attention and being unattractive means you get none. There are a lot of organisations and volunteering options that deal with loneliness though, at least where I'm from, but they aren't really working. I mean, they are better than the alternative, which is often no social contact, but they aren't curing loneliness because the people involved in the programs are often painfully aware of the fact that they are being helped. I think what is needed is more environment for adults to hang out. The basic recipe for friendship is basically spending time together outside of work. Spend enough time together and you grow on each other. That's easy when you're young, but once you finish your education, it stops completely, and if you don't have a friend circle or some hobby activity where you'll get stuck with the same people on a regular basis, then you'll probably end up being lonely. Can tech fix that? I doubt it. But board game cafes are doing an excellent job all over Europe.
- mjevans 8y agoI agree Tech (probably) can't fix it (directly). I'd also agree Tech has enabled things that expose how broken society has always* (probably?) been; and enables it to be even worse (probably...) today. Yet Tech is a tool; it might enable a solution that helps us be better.
- ProAm 8y ago> Why is noone doing anything about this? You are sort of answering your own question, why are you not doing anything about this? Everyone seems to wait for 'someone' to do something about this.
- jungletime 8y agoCasinos are doing something about this. They jumped in to exploit this situation. Most popular activity, Slots, are all software based now. For many people with a casino in town, its the only affordable place that adults/elderly can hang out for hours with other adults. Relatively cheap at first if they play penny slots. Mind you, its a trap, since many of these people will get addicted fairly quickly. But pretty much everything costs money now. Going outside in Winter for an elderly person is not really suitable. The weather might be too harsh for many days in a row. But even in the summer, a trip to a national park could be $100+ with fuel and camping. So pretty pricey, for someone on a pension. And hanging out in a bar is not a great alternative either. Its not cheap, and carries serious downsides like drinking and driving charges, alcohol addiction and so on. I love capitalism. But pretty much everything that could cost money, does. My town, recently bulldozed rider made, mountain biking paths in two parks. Only to announce its own trail project half a year later. I have strong suspicion that it will cost money at some point in the future to ride these trails.
- wppick 8y agoI think video games are starting to fill this niche. Games like call of duty and destiny served as a way for me to socialize and stay in touch with friends from a different city
- Rjevski 8y agoThe issue with gaming is that the community as a whole is toxic, probably due to the lowered barrier to entry (a redux of the “eternal September”) which means that immature kids can now join games and swear all day on the mic. I remember back in 2008 I used to play Crysis and a side-effect of the game’s insane hardware requirements (for the time) meant it weeded out a lot of bad actors. On any server you’d join the chat was always polite with real conversations instead of swearing & complaining which is all that I seem to notice now on modern games.
- peterlk 8y agoThe claim is that we can't do this study on humans: > Mice yanked out of their community and held in solitary isolation show signs of brain damage. Don't we do this to prisoners? Seems like we could study this within the boundaries of current cultural practices. Personally, I'm not a fan of this treatment, but this would give weight (or not) to the argument that we shouldn't be doing it.
- chrisco255 8y agoYeah and I think solitary confinement is reserved for the worst prisoners that act out in prison...but it's effects on human psychology are pretty well documented.
- joewee 8y agoNot always the case, it’s up to the prison staff to decide what type of behavior warrants solitary confinement. Based on what I’ve seen in documentaries, for example both people in a fight might be placed in solitary, victim and perpetrator. It’s also common for political prisoners, “high profile” inmates.
- meej 8y agoSome of those acting out are mentally ill, which means putting them in solitary confinement just exacerbates their problems. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/10/mental-health-inmates-solitary-confinement-us-prisons https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/10/mental-healt...
- gowld 8y agoSolitary confinement is applied to people who have been stripped of legal rights, and the authorities torturing them aren't going to volunteer their victims for research that might undermine their power to torture. http://www.togethertoendsolitary.org http://www.togethertoendsolitary.org
- jumelles 8y agoThere is an argument to be made that solitary confinement is torture. Check out this New Yorker article: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/03/30/hellhole https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/03/30/hellhole
- amelius 8y agoIs sitting behind a computer 8 hours per day comparable to loneliness, as far as brain health is concerned?
- copperx 8y agoI would tend to say no if you're actively working and not using it as escapism to avoid social interaction or as a refuge of a solitary life. As with all things, you must be aware of what you're doing to yourself; but that is easy to forget.
- wokawoka 8y agoI beg to differ - I get too many "please do that, help me with that, could you..., would you...i'll pay you back". Loneliness is pure bliss because people ask me to do sh8t.
- ttamslam 8y agoFrom the article: "Loneliness is understood in this type of research as an emotional state rather than a physical one. We can be lonely in a crowd or delighted with an entire week of solitude to finally finish a project. It’s the emotional state that is bad for human health."
- zandl 8y agoAgreed, people have been going into solitary retreats for thousands of years, many require it to become enlightened. Not including these data points makes psychology more of an anthropology survey rather than hard science of the mind. There’s this assumption that they just can’t figure out what’s going on with their mind so make blanket statements based on confused hypothesis. Almost all of Asia would dissagre since their culturals have countless examples today and in the past that completely disagree with this point thus making it not a universal study of the mind but for a limited set of people in a specific culture.
- godDLL 8y agoUse a 'no'.
- ohiovr 8y agoLong term solitary confinement is common severe evil done to prisoners.
- tristan_shatley 8y agoAnybody wanna be friends?
- xapata 8y agoSure. But only if we're neighbors and approximately the same age +/- 10 years.
- mohsen1 8y agoHow you make friends post 30? I'm struggling with this. Specially in places like the Bay Area where people are really closed off to each other.
- winchling 8y agoMy theory is that bonds between people arise out of shared suffering/challenges. Thus lifelong friends were often at school together, or in the army, or somewhere else unpleasant, or at least occasionally so. There's reduced scope for this after the age of 30, obviously, unless you take up a dangerous sport or something else risky.
- tokyodude 8y agothis imo is actually an unindented consequence of crunch in video game dev. I hate the crunch but love the friends I made. yes I know you can make friend without crunch and I don't want to subject people to it but I have bonding memories of going out for breakfast after working all night
- ehnto 8y agoMountain biking has had an uptick in popularity for all ages it seems.
- fjsolwmv 8y agoNot just your theory, that's textbook human psychology. That's why "hazing" exists.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dawhizkid 8y agoIf you think Bay Area is closed off never move to Seattle.
- shodan666 8y ago1. Go out whenever you can. For example free dancing lessons, yoga, IT conferences etc. 2. Try to rent some room and live with some students :) Super easy to make some friends that way. 3. Find people who have similar hobbies. If you don't have any hobby (programming doesn't count in real life) - then find some. Super easy to get some female friends if you gonna get into tailoring etc.
- dawhizkid 8y agoAs a gay man in SF I only just realized how different your social experience is vs a straight male i.e. because gay men are, on average, less likely to have kids, there is never a point in time (i.e. 30ish) when all your friends start getting married, having kids, moving out of expensive urban centers, settling down, etc. On the one hand it feels like you can (if you choose) live out your 30s, 40s like a straight person would live out their 20s since more of your gay friends will be in the same boat and thus maintain a social circle in a way that might be harder if you're straight. On the other hand, not everyone necessarily wants to live their adult lives like they do in their 20s.
- internet555 8y agoI’ve thought the same thing
- mercer 8y agoThis is fascinating. As someone diagnosed with ASD, I've often gravitated towards gay people as close friends and in my social circle, and I think part of it is that there's a certain overlap in characteristics (even if the cause might be very different). While it's possible that I might get married and have kids, I'd say this is much less likely to happen for me. Furthermore, as I grow older I find it increasingly difficult to 'keep up' with the lifestyle changes and increasing 'demands' that my 'neurotypical' friends go through. I've noticed this in particular in the transition to my thirties. With my gay friends this somehow feels like less of an 'issue'. Another overlap, I suppose, is a feeling of not quite fitting in. This extends beyond just my gay friends though, and includes expats, TCK's/'army brats'/global nomads, and people with various disorders. But there does often seem to be a sense of 'not quite fitting in, together' that can be incredibly valuable.
- hyperpallium 8y ago> mice in large enclosures packed with toys, mazes and things to climb. When some of the animals reached adulthood, they were taken out and put individually into “a typical shoebox cage" sensory deprivation != subjective loneliness
- chiefalchemist 8y agoAs I read more and more on gut bacteria and general health, I have to believe that gut bacteria as factor into these ill effects. That is, with less exposure to others, your gut is less diverse. Or looked at from another perspective, studies have shown that couples live longer, as do people with dogs (and cats?). But those relationships also exposure you to the bacteria of others. That's a positive. Flip it around, and less exposure will undermine the diversity of your gut and eventually your overall health.
- embsugar 8y agoDo you meant seratonin? Because I have huge issues with my digestive and also huge issues with major depressive disorder. Both are an influence by my lack of seratonin. It’s proved that a deficieny that leads to both.
- chiefalchemist 8y agoNope. Gut bacteria. It's being linked to more and more physical and mental ailments.
- emerged 8y agoThat is a really interesting theory. The discomfort of loneliness often manifests as gut discomfort, as well. Common symptom of anxiety in general.
- shaunpersad 8y agoI feel like there is this blanket, universally accepted fact that humans are social creatures. But I can't help but feel like it's not the whole story. This feeling comes from my own experiences that I am at my happiest, best self when I'm alone. And I don't understand how starkly this contrasts from what I hear from others and from studies such as this one. This isn't a "I'm an introvert" or "people suck" anecdote. This is something that I repeatedly try to objectively access and measure, and almost every time my body responds better to being alone. The less people I have in my life, the better I feel. The more time I spend by myself, the better I feel. The less I speak to anyone, the better I feel. It might be a bit ironic to ask this, but am I alone in this feeling?
- Florin_Andrei 8y agoAt the very least there must be some kind of very broad bell curve or something, with extreme outliers on both sides. There are people who spend years in a cave or closed room practicing meditation. If done properly, there don't seem to be any negative side-effects. I'm sure the fact that it's a voluntary activity is very important - as opposed to involuntary confinement to the solitary cell.
- fjsolwmv 8y agoHow is that different from being a introvert?
- nickthemagicman 8y agoDo you have a social circle that you take breaks from? Or are you truly alone? Those are very different experiences.
- wickoff 8y agoThat's very odd. At one point on my life I spent about a year working from home, single, without friends in real life. The psychological damage I've caused myself was very obvious. If solitude makes you happy it takes very little effort to isolate yourself.
- scotty79 8y ago
- motohagiography 8y agoIt's difficult to explain how broken real social networks are post-social media. First, friendships for men and women are different. The women (over 30) I know are a kind of social glue who are the center of their networks, and they are the ones organizing parties, dinners, events etc. However, as a man, if you depend on others for your social network, you are going to lose it if you don't have activity friends. If you don't have activities, you are going to be a leaf node someone elses network. For men, the most social activities I can recommend in order of sociability are, volunteering and political parties/activity, fraternal organizations e.g. (https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/80240816 https://www.netflix.com/ca/title/80240816) , team sports (hockey, soccer, etc) then things like group activities like sailing, crossfit, golf(!), group cycling, outdoorsmanship like hunting, camping, etc. If you live in a city, it's extra hard. Treat your social network like maintaining fitness or keeping up a skill, it requires exercise.
- fjsolwmv 8y agoHow is social media related? On average, men have always been the leaf nodes on their wives' social networks.
- motohagiography 8y agoThat would be a bold statement. However, social media takes time that imposes opportunity costs. While I can't source it now, when I read that most online daters spent 12h on the site for every real life meeting, I deleted my profiles and never went back. The performative aspect of social media makes sincere connection difficult because it makes people overly conscious about how it reflects their presented, aspirational image, and that repels intimacy. It's a panopticon where everyone lives in fear of imaginary judgement. It is a laughably narrow and perverse status signalling game, with the civic merit of a slot machine in every pocket. When you compare time spent on social media to that spent on the things I mentioned above, it would be hard to say it produces good people, let alone ones worth knowing.
- slv77 8y agoMen as a leaf node on women’s social networks is a relatively recent social development. The male fraternities that used to form the nexus of men’s social lives were seen as exclusionary and withered or were integrated in the 20th century. For example political parties and companies were once fraternal organizations Historically there were abundant social fraternities as well such as gentlemen’s clubs, Order of Masons and veterans fraternities. Societal sexualization of male relationships also contributed to the recent shift. Men in the 1800s would express affection to their male friends in language that would make straight men today blush. Niobe Way has done a lot of research on how this has impacted adolescent male relationships which creates the “leaf node” effect.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mercurialshark 8y agoIn Lonely at the Top, the author identities the key variables to adult friendship as i) proximity ii) frequency of spontaneous encounters iii) things in common. As a child, authentic friendship often occurs with relative ease as kids go to school they are i) within close proximity ii) seen regularly and iii) can play games on the playground/share low-barrier activities together.