4 ms·

All those terrible things would be fine if people stopped buying them. You vote for what you want with money and if people are willing to buy terrible things th

All those terrible things would be fine if people stopped buying them. You vote for what you want with money and if people are willing to buy terrible things then they will continue making it.

lotsofpulp 8y ago
People aren't buying terrible things, they're buying the best thing available to them. Edit: Samsung/Microsoft/Google are free to come up with their own ecosystem and quality hardware devices that don't have the drawbacks that Apple's do. But for some reason they don't.
- Green_man 8y ago
  edit: Apple isn't the best choice. (previously: I think it's increasingly obvious that for everyone except osx stans, it's not the best choice available) and it hasn't been for a long time. Apple was at their peak imo with the MacBook pro a generation or two back. They took out the disk drive (everyone said that was radical, but hadn't used it in years) and worked with the single piece of aluminum. Nowadays, that's not just familiar, it's pedestrian. There's plenty of options in the PC world that have that. What has apple done since? Removed magsafe and usb a??? Made the worst laptop keyboard to be on a flagship in memory? It used to be that Apple was the only place you could get great design, a phenomenal screen, and good battery life in the same package. But other manufacturers (especially Dell, Lenovo, and Microsoft) have seriously stepped up.
  - d35007 8y ago
    > I think it's increasingly obvious that for everyone except osx stans, it's not the best choice available, and it hasn't been for a long time The problem with arguments like this is that they're self-reinforcing. If I try to refute it, you'll just peg me as an "osxistan" (is that a country?) and say I've proven you right.
    - Green_man 8y ago
      thats a fair criticism, i'll consider rewording (stan is a reference to a superfan of eminems, from his song stan). alternatively, you could of course explain why you think apple laptops are the best choice still in 2018(if that's how you feel), its not as if i didn't have some reasoning in my comment that you are free to clash with.
      - vogon_laureate 8y ago
        I have a Macbook Pro with touch bar and a Dell XPS. Windows seems to have endless updates and little control over them. Drivers are a pain, bios updates seem to be really important. Blue screens. Unreliable Bluetooth. I've had dell support need to replace almost everything in that machine. And this is supposed to be one of the best Windows laptops. After six months of struggle with the Dell, I got a MBP. I actually love the keyboard. The speakers are amazing. The trackpad is the industry best. Bluetooth works perfectly. The screen is gorgeous, the build quality is unmatched, and Mac OS is intuitive, clutter free, and stable. Night and day difference between them.
        Green_man 8y ago
        I think windows updates are the worst part of windows, with apple, it seems to be fanfare to new features, with occasional bugs, but with windows, its not communicated to the user what's being fixed, or how long it will take until it begins. the experiance with the dell bluescreen on a new machine is unacceptable, full stop. at the same time, i'd be terrified of the possibility of the macbook pro keyboard bricking at any time. do you miss USB A?
      - sbuk 8y ago
        It’s a pointless discussion. We’d be better off playing tic-tac-toe to decide who is “right”. What is “the best” isn’t a factual thing, it’s a preference.
      - d35007 8y ago
        > its not as if i didn't have some reasoning in my comment that you are free to clash with I could have, but I didn't see much reason to because you didn't seem open to a discussion. You preemptively dismissed any argument by implying that anyone who disagrees with you is a "osx stan". > alternatively, you could of course explain why you think apple laptops are the best choice still in 2018(if that's how you feel) I do feel that Apple laptops are the best choice _for me_. I don't much care what laptop you use. I think everyone should pick the tools that work best for them. We don't have to be on the same platform to collaborate. My main reason for choosing Apple laptops is macOS, but I also think the hardware is very good. Expensive, but very good.
- gaius 8y ago
  But for some reason they don't. Microsoft are adding headphones to the Surface range very soon, early reviews are very positive.
  - bepotts 8y ago
    Windows just isn't cool, no matter how hard Microsoft tries to rebrand it. It'll never be cool until Microsoft does something to not make it ubiquitous. Windows is what you use when you're a kid at a public school or have parents that don't have the money to buy a Mac. Macs and iPhones are trendy because not everyone owns them, they're really nice, and they're pricey. Windows is like Wal-mart while Apple is Whole Foods.
    - lotsofpulp 8y ago
      Windows isn't cool because of BSODs, constant restarts and waiting for it to update, and Candy Crush advertisements in the start menu. And the hibernate/sleep function worked terribly (at least for the longest time, don't know if it's fixed now), compared to Apple's fold down the screen when you want to go and open it back up to what you were doing and it works all the time.
      - bepotts 8y ago
        That too. Microsoft allows venders with terrible design teams to sell their product and customers associate Windows with these product lines. Microsoft cannot control their brand. Apple controls the entire stack so they're able to constantly deliver a quality experience. If all Windows machines were like the Surface Book then this conversation would be different.
        Wowfunhappy 8y ago
        But Microsoft themselves is now the one putting candy crush ads on the start menu, and forcing everyone into a two-major-upgrades-per-year cycle that's causing so many headaches.
      - 8y ago
- izzydata 8y ago
  The idea that people think there is no better / equivalent alternative is an issue. Why people are willing to begrudgingly spend thousands on something without doing research doesn't make a lot of sense.
  - nradov 8y ago
    Often there really is no better / equivalent alternative. If you have a specific need for a particular feature then there may be only a few devices with offer it at all. So as a consumer you have a choice between buying crap or nothing at all. There's no economic way to signal that you'd be willing to pay for something better.
  - matwood 8y ago
    I do research and my couple forays into Android, while less expensive, were not good experiences. Admittedly my last Android phone was a Nexus 5, so maybe I should look again? The problem is after other poor experiences I will only get a Google phone. The Pixel 3 XL with 128gb is $999. A new iPhone Xs is 1249 for the 256gb. Is taking yet another chance on Android worth $250? How well will that Pixel 3 XL even be supported? It just isn't as simple as no one does any research.
    - izzydata 8y ago
      The negatives were mainly concerning their desktop / laptop designs and business model of said desktop / laptops.
    - rkho 8y ago
      Exactly this. I've made four attempts to consider an Android ecosystem and have owned the following: Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Note 5, and Pixel 2XL. The Nexus/Pixel phone hardware were fine, but I found that the software ecosystem was heavily lacking. I got the impression that to the majority of Android devs, UX was the last thing they cared about. The Note 5 on the other hand was one of the most disrespectful, anti-consumer experiences I had ever encountered since ditching a dumbphone years ago. The carrier I used (Verizon) felt it was appropriate to plaster its own logo on the back of the phone and in a loading splash screen when powering on the phone, plus preload the phone with a bunch of useless apps that could not be uninstalled. Every single time that I've purchased an Android device hoping that it was finally good enough, I've ended up carrying my iPhone as a secondary device within a week and either returning or throwing the Android device in the drawer within a month.

All those terrible things would be fine if people stopped buying them. You vote for what you want with money and if people are willing to buy terrible things then they will continue making it.

lotsofpulp 8y ago

People aren't buying terrible things, they're buying the best thing available to them. Edit: Samsung/Microsoft/Google are free to come up with their own ecosystem and quality hardware devices that don't have the drawbacks that Apple's do. But for some reason they don't.

Green_man 8y ago
edit: Apple isn't the best choice. (previously: I think it's increasingly obvious that for everyone except osx stans, it's not the best choice available) and it hasn't been for a long time. Apple was at their peak imo with the MacBook pro a generation or two back. They took out the disk drive (everyone said that was radical, but hadn't used it in years) and worked with the single piece of aluminum. Nowadays, that's not just familiar, it's pedestrian. There's plenty of options in the PC world that have that. What has apple done since? Removed magsafe and usb a??? Made the worst laptop keyboard to be on a flagship in memory? It used to be that Apple was the only place you could get great design, a phenomenal screen, and good battery life in the same package. But other manufacturers (especially Dell, Lenovo, and Microsoft) have seriously stepped up.
- d35007 8y ago
  > I think it's increasingly obvious that for everyone except osx stans, it's not the best choice available, and it hasn't been for a long time The problem with arguments like this is that they're self-reinforcing. If I try to refute it, you'll just peg me as an "osxistan" (is that a country?) and say I've proven you right.
  - Green_man 8y ago
    thats a fair criticism, i'll consider rewording (stan is a reference to a superfan of eminems, from his song stan). alternatively, you could of course explain why you think apple laptops are the best choice still in 2018(if that's how you feel), its not as if i didn't have some reasoning in my comment that you are free to clash with.
    - vogon_laureate 8y ago
      I have a Macbook Pro with touch bar and a Dell XPS. Windows seems to have endless updates and little control over them. Drivers are a pain, bios updates seem to be really important. Blue screens. Unreliable Bluetooth. I've had dell support need to replace almost everything in that machine. And this is supposed to be one of the best Windows laptops. After six months of struggle with the Dell, I got a MBP. I actually love the keyboard. The speakers are amazing. The trackpad is the industry best. Bluetooth works perfectly. The screen is gorgeous, the build quality is unmatched, and Mac OS is intuitive, clutter free, and stable. Night and day difference between them.
      - Green_man 8y ago
        I think windows updates are the worst part of windows, with apple, it seems to be fanfare to new features, with occasional bugs, but with windows, its not communicated to the user what's being fixed, or how long it will take until it begins. the experiance with the dell bluescreen on a new machine is unacceptable, full stop. at the same time, i'd be terrified of the possibility of the macbook pro keyboard bricking at any time. do you miss USB A?
    - sbuk 8y ago
      It’s a pointless discussion. We’d be better off playing tic-tac-toe to decide who is “right”. What is “the best” isn’t a factual thing, it’s a preference.
    - d35007 8y ago
      > its not as if i didn't have some reasoning in my comment that you are free to clash with I could have, but I didn't see much reason to because you didn't seem open to a discussion. You preemptively dismissed any argument by implying that anyone who disagrees with you is a "osx stan". > alternatively, you could of course explain why you think apple laptops are the best choice still in 2018(if that's how you feel) I do feel that Apple laptops are the best choice _for me_. I don't much care what laptop you use. I think everyone should pick the tools that work best for them. We don't have to be on the same platform to collaborate. My main reason for choosing Apple laptops is macOS, but I also think the hardware is very good. Expensive, but very good.
gaius 8y ago
But for some reason they don't. Microsoft are adding headphones to the Surface range very soon, early reviews are very positive.
- bepotts 8y ago
  Windows just isn't cool, no matter how hard Microsoft tries to rebrand it. It'll never be cool until Microsoft does something to not make it ubiquitous. Windows is what you use when you're a kid at a public school or have parents that don't have the money to buy a Mac. Macs and iPhones are trendy because not everyone owns them, they're really nice, and they're pricey. Windows is like Wal-mart while Apple is Whole Foods.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    Windows isn't cool because of BSODs, constant restarts and waiting for it to update, and Candy Crush advertisements in the start menu. And the hibernate/sleep function worked terribly (at least for the longest time, don't know if it's fixed now), compared to Apple's fold down the screen when you want to go and open it back up to what you were doing and it works all the time.
    - bepotts 8y ago
      That too. Microsoft allows venders with terrible design teams to sell their product and customers associate Windows with these product lines. Microsoft cannot control their brand. Apple controls the entire stack so they're able to constantly deliver a quality experience. If all Windows machines were like the Surface Book then this conversation would be different.
      - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
        But Microsoft themselves is now the one putting candy crush ads on the start menu, and forcing everyone into a two-major-upgrades-per-year cycle that's causing so many headaches.
    - 8y ago
izzydata 8y ago
The idea that people think there is no better / equivalent alternative is an issue. Why people are willing to begrudgingly spend thousands on something without doing research doesn't make a lot of sense.
- nradov 8y ago
  Often there really is no better / equivalent alternative. If you have a specific need for a particular feature then there may be only a few devices with offer it at all. So as a consumer you have a choice between buying crap or nothing at all. There's no economic way to signal that you'd be willing to pay for something better.
- matwood 8y ago
  I do research and my couple forays into Android, while less expensive, were not good experiences. Admittedly my last Android phone was a Nexus 5, so maybe I should look again? The problem is after other poor experiences I will only get a Google phone. The Pixel 3 XL with 128gb is $999. A new iPhone Xs is 1249 for the 256gb. Is taking yet another chance on Android worth $250? How well will that Pixel 3 XL even be supported? It just isn't as simple as no one does any research.
  - izzydata 8y ago
    The negatives were mainly concerning their desktop / laptop designs and business model of said desktop / laptops.
  - rkho 8y ago
    Exactly this. I've made four attempts to consider an Android ecosystem and have owned the following: Nexus 4, Nexus 5, Note 5, and Pixel 2XL. The Nexus/Pixel phone hardware were fine, but I found that the software ecosystem was heavily lacking. I got the impression that to the majority of Android devs, UX was the last thing they cared about. The Note 5 on the other hand was one of the most disrespectful, anti-consumer experiences I had ever encountered since ditching a dumbphone years ago. The carrier I used (Verizon) felt it was appropriate to plaster its own logo on the back of the phone and in a loading splash screen when powering on the phone, plus preload the phone with a bunch of useless apps that could not be uninstalled. Every single time that I've purchased an Android device hoping that it was finally good enough, I've ended up carrying my iPhone as a secondary device within a week and either returning or throwing the Android device in the drawer within a month.