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> "It's not doing more of what we are doing and it means if we've done things with technology, for example, that have gotten us into a bit of a pickle, doing mo

• TeMPOraL 8y ago
  I don't know if AI luminaries advocating certain utopia exist. Pretty much all reasonable voices I've seen about AI in the past decade either dismissed it entirely, or advocated caution, arguing that it's a small chance of utopia if we do it right, and high chance of destroying humanity. As for UBI, it's one way of addressing the fact that our civilization is mature enough to abandon the concept of having to work to be able to live (not to mention, non-bullshit jobs are steadily disappearing).
  • crispinb 8y ago
    > our civilization is mature enough to abandon the concept of having to work to be able to live Or at least make the concept universal. It's been alive and well for the ruling classes for centuries.
    • 0xdeadbeefbabe 8y ago
      Hey, are you from the ruling classes?
      • crispinb 8y ago
        No, but I've had a pretty close view of their undersides.
    • state_less 8y ago
      A Utopia doesn’t change that you’re human with ups and downs.
      • Retra 8y ago
        Don't project your conditions onto everyone else, please.
        • mactyler 8y ago
          Some people are hungry.
    • shanghaiaway 8y ago
      The ruling class works too. They rule.
      • crispinb 8y ago
        Some do, some don't, in my experience (there are many scions of the ruling class who choose to do little). But that's all irrelevant in any case, because the issue in question here wasn't working or not-working, but having to work to be permitted to live. Most of us have to. The ruling classes don't.
        • shanghaiaway 8y ago
          Rulers have to work to maintain or expand, otherwise they decline.
  • darkmarmot 8y ago
    If I ever see something even approaching generalized intelligence, I might be slightly concerned. But, thus far, our best AIs are simply pattern recognition systems strung together like Christmas lights. There's also no reason to think that 'intelligence' can be exponentially scaled or that any system can recognize how to improve itself -- or have the capacity to do so in situ.
    • throwawaycanada 8y ago
      Unless we are examples of such a system.
      • joejerryronnie 8y ago
        So, 3.5 billion years of organic computer evolution from now is when we should begin to worry? ;-)
        • TeMPOraL 8y ago
          Our technology is several orders of magnitude faster than biological evolution :). Things on Earth have stopped being primarily driven by genes some time ago now.
    • TeMPOraL 8y ago
      > But, thus far, our best AIs are simply pattern recognition systems strung together like Christmas lights. Completely agree. I do believe calling current run of ML/DNNs "AI" is stretching it (and I expect to be hit with the "AI is a moving goalpost" argument but seriously? is it a moving goalpost for those who know how the current generation of solutions work?). > There's also no reason to think that 'intelligence' can be exponentially scaled or that any system can recognize how to improve itself -- or have the capacity to do so in situ. There's no reason to assume otherwise. Exponential scaling (i.e. "intelligence explosion") may be a contestable assumption, but really, we're in big trouble if a general AI reaches human levels. We know this level is possible because we exist. Even if AI did just that, we'd have to contest with a new sapient being, and give it ethical consideration. But I see nothing preventing that AI from being as smart as 10 or 100 humans combined. The rest really follows from nature of technological artifacts - if you can make one, you can make one thousand (applies to both hardware and software) and make it work as one; you can iterate on it, and if you can, then a human-level AI will be able to do it too.
  • pascalxus 8y ago
    We are no-where near rich enough to afford UBI at this point. Run the numbers, Even if you taxed every last billionaire at 100%, you'd be nowhere near enough money for even the most basic UBI. Who knows, maybe in a 1000 years? i don't see it happening in our lifetimes. And what are all those AIs supposed to be working on? Based on the direction it's currentlying heading, it looks like we'll just be getting more the same stuff we don't need. If AI is going to help humanity, it needs to be applied to maslow's hierarchy of needs. 99% of society still isn't past the first row. Look at the bottom row, it's pretty simple: Shelter, Food, Water and by extension to afford those things: transportation and medical insurance.
• WhompingWindows 8y ago
  Who are these luminaries you speak of? I know Neil degrasse Tyson thinks AI is going to be beneficial, but I don't know who else takes that position. Most of the "experts" who are quoted on AI, not those scientists and engineers actually building the AI, but those "expert philosophers" like Sam Harris who assume their prosaic musings can capture the future of technological innovation, they are mostly gloomy or neutral on the subject. So, who's out there actually building AI and declaring it'll lead to utopia?
  • wallace_f 8y ago
    Zuckerburg is another popular figure who is optimistic about AI.
    • walkingolof 8y ago
      "popular figure" -> "public figure"... is probably more correct these days.
      • deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      • wallace_f 8y ago
        Yea I intended well-known, not well-liked
    • saiya-jin 8y ago
      that... is probably more concerning than anything else in this topic
  • shanghaiaway 8y ago
    Elon Musk. Google/Waymo. Uber. Every car company working on "selfdriving." Amazon. Etc. Literally everyone in tech is working on an AI-powered pipedream.
• tensor 8y ago
  AI is here and its use will increase no matter what you desire. It's really no different than any other technology. As a species, we've consistently been getting more and more efficient in most aspects of our lives. How that translates into the well being of the many is a completely different topic. Being more efficient is ultimately only a good thing. But that doesn't mean it will lead to a utopia. Our problems always have been, and always will be, each other. You point to AI as a problem, but we all should really be looking in the mirror instead. It's up to all of us to solve the social troubles that will arise from continual increases in efficiency. UBI is one idea that might help prevent a severe imbalance of resources in society. But it alone won't be enough to solve our social problems, and I don't think most people claim it will. It's a start. If this is really something that keeps you awake at night, be a part of the solution and help us think of realistic ways to address these issues. Going backwards in time isn't an option.
  • lintuxvi 8y ago
    You're right. It's about our thinking. You and I. It's Alan Kay's quote he wants to shout. We need to get better at our solutions, and how we share them.
  • eksemplar 8y ago
    Is AI really here? We process a lot of data, we’ve done so for years, and so far ML hasn’t been able to do it better than our in house analytical scientists. I see how the automation of those analytical scientist work a huge companies like google, where you probably save quite a few millions on having less employees, but even at our 20.000 employee municipality AI is an expense. Sure we could maybe cut the data/analytical staff down to half the size if we replaced them with data scientists, but data scientists are more expensive and you’d also need to pay a license for whatever ML platform you use, and none of our POCs with various consultants or academics have provided us with anything that was better than what we already have. In fact, In every test, it turned out our own human build models were a lot better at predicting and auditing than ML. Heh. AI is also struggling outside of big datas. We’ve run a poc on self driving cars for three years now, and they don’t work, at all. They certainly can work, if we replace and maintain every piece of road infrastructure to their exact needs, but that’s never going to happen. I guess AI will eventually find a usage outside of advertising and privacy invasion, and don’t get me wrong, we certainly use it for things like trolling through millions of old case files as part of our quality control. So it’s not completely useless, but I don’t see how it’ll change the world anytime soon.
• api 8y ago
  Agreed. There is a real poverty of deep "meta" thinking today.
• Arn_Thor 8y ago
  History proves otherwise. Technology crammed people into cities, which was terrible until it allowed us to create better infrastructure to cope with the density. Technology made London air unbreathable until it gave rise to cleaner sources of energy which we could place further away from people. Technology often times makes things worse, and then helps us fix the problems that arise. And the net result is longer, healthier lives for the vast majority of people on the planet. So I say "keep going"!
  • knieveltech 8y ago
    History isn't done yet. Your rosy prognosis appears to ignore current widespread ecosystem collapse and mass extinction, growing geopolitical instability, and the looming possibility of the biosphere becoming incompatible with human civilization as it is currently implemented.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • yjhoney 8y ago
      Unfortunately I feel the same way and it is hard to find any sort of happiness with this mindset. How do you handle?
      • knieveltech 8y ago
        Poorly, if at all.
      • leblowl 8y ago
        For me, I try to educate myself and continue to open my heart and mind to the suffering and problems of the world. This is painful and only recommended in small doses. I see a lot of suffering, and not just human suffering, and I am a white male human in Colorado, so I probably don't see the majority of suffering due to my privileges and luxurious life. The only other option is to turn away from it all, and I don't want to. I don't want to be part of the problem and live with so much blood on my hands. I try to cope with it by waking up each day and trying to make a positive difference in any small way that I can. Learning, sharing what I learn, talking with others, learning the problems of others, volunteering social services, voting, and brainstorming economic, social and political solutions. I find happiness daily in the beauty of the sky or animals or plants. This is truly an incredible world and I must be blessed to have had the chance to experience it, even if things are not going so great for the community of Earth.
• wallace_f 8y ago
  Yea our technological ability is not limiting humanity; our ethical or dare I say moral abilities are the limit. I would waget that's probably what the Great Filter is. Survival in nature inevitably transitions into survival among other intelligence. Intelligence seeks to preserve itself, not its eventual mastery of the universe, and it'll be a hard battl to win even if 99% are good-natured, 1% will still undermine others for their own benefit.