10 ms·

A therapist friend recently attended a conference where a big group of doctors and health professionals focused around adolescents presented on the link between

A therapist friend recently attended a conference where a big group of doctors and health professionals focused around adolescents presented on the link between pot and the development of psychosis and even schizophrenia in users under age 32 or something like that. I've definitely heard about this colloquially with people reacting very differently to the same strain ("we were all fine but she was just freaking out"), and the new science coming out of places like Colorado seems to be showing a strong correlation in that direction. I guess you could say (colloquially again, since I'm not at all in the medical field) that pot can open a bad door in some people that may have stayed shut otherwise. Is that gene expression? Brain plasticity? Dunno. I think prohibition does way more harm than good and I'm glad to see legalization coming to the states, but I don't think we can treat pot as totally harmless for people under 30 and teens in particular because it seems like it's very harmful for some. One paper on the subject: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2931552/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2931552/

deleted 8y ago
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BurningFrog 8y ago
> I don't think we can treat pot as totally harmless for people under 30 and teens in particular because it seems like it's very harmful for some. You're right, of course. But the same is true of peanuts.
- tachyonbeam 8y ago
  The problem is that the discourse right now is extremely polarized, following the left/right divide in politics. You have people on the right claiming that pot will automatically ruin your life, and (some) people on the left pretending it's completely benign and almost a panacea. I once watched a "documentary" claiming that pot cures cancer! I kid you not. The fact is, it's a substance that affects different people differently. It can cause intense anxiety in some people, and it can severely impair your judgement. Responsible use requires that users be properly informed of the risks. We need to be having a more balanced and honest discussion about this, and many other issues.
  - freedomben 8y ago
    I agree with you that it is extremely polarized, but disagree that it follows the left/right divide in politics. I have many friends and family on all sides of the spectrum, and there are many conservatives that have opinions like, "it's not for me, but I don't care what you do with your body" (not a typical conservative position IMHO, but becoming more common). I've also been hearing the "I support medical, but not recreational." Even here in Utah, a very conservative state, we are close to legalizing medical cannabis with prop 2. On the progressive side I've been starting to hear people saying more and more that the evidence is incomplete, and therefore the government needs to consider regulating it much more heavily or wait to legalize until more science is done. Of course, those are not the stereotypical views, but it's one of the issues that seems to cross left/right divides a lot more than others.
- LrnByTeach 8y ago
  Let us say there are 100 teens in your neighborhood, 65 of them tried eating peanuts and 20 of them liked very much and started eating multiple times a week on a regular basis. Now 5 of those 20 started developing health/mental problems which are noticeable by parents, teachers & doctors. What are the chances of the majority of those 5 stop eating peanuts, It is very high. Now, what are the chances of similar 5 teens stop using weed for health/mental problems?
  - thecatspaw 8y ago
    The same? You can rationalize peanuts beeing unhealthy for you exactly the same way you can rationalize away health issues due to marijuana. "All other people eating it are fine" "I've been eating peanuts for 5 years, and look, Im still alive"
    - LrnByTeach 8y ago
      >The same? It is not the same. Look at the opioid epidemic in teens across USA, talk to health care providers in that area, there is very well recorded evidence "a BIG percentage" of kids who personally noticed "Learning problems and other mental problems" are UNABLE to STOP using weed. Vs. There is recorded clinical data evidence throughout USA hospitals. Millions of kids across the country were found having various kinds of food allergies and advised by the doctors to stop eating those foods and the vast majority DID STOP eating them.
      - thecatspaw 8y ago
        Yes, but a food allergy is something you can feel. You feel sick, you might have to go to the hospital once or twice if you ate something which contained peanuts. It is a much tighter feedback loop. Eat some peanuts -> feel sick -> go to hospital. As far as I am aware this loop is very quick. If you extend this feedback loop to span multiple years, the connection between trigger and result is a lot more blurry, and it leaves more room for rationalization. The comparision is "If you eat this, you will probably die if you do not get immediate treatment" versus "If you smoke this, in some time in the future you might have mental health issues. Or you might be totally fine" Peanuts are also not (mentally) addictive, and neither do they alter your mental state. People like to take chances, and hope that its not gonna be them who get mentally ill.
galvin 8y ago
As I understand it THC aggravates symptoms in people predisposed to psychosis. CBD is antipsychotic and can have a balancing effect but unfortunately growers have been selectively breeding and optimizing for high THC at the expense of CBD for decades. The result is that cannabis is more "incompatible" with certain people than it used to be.
- the-pigeon 8y ago
  Which is one of the big problems with cannabis studies. THC is known as the "active" ingredient in cannabis. However we know it's definitely not the only one. There are 113 identified cannabinoids. Most are believed to have some effect. And there's terpenes that are believed to have effects as well. So the problem is that ever single bit of cannabis has different ratios of these chemicals. Even two plants with the exact same genetics grown in same conditions can have widely ranging ratios. Which potentially means widely ranging effects. The good thing is with legalization moving along we should see a lot more high quality studies that can help us figure this out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-101/terpenes-the-flavors-of-cannabis-aromatherapy https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-101/terpenes-the-flavor... http://www.ncsm.nl/english/what-is-medicinal-cannabis/active-ingredients#Terpenes http://www.ncsm.nl/english/what-is-medicinal-cannabis/active...
  - weberc2 8y ago
    > The good thing is with legalization moving along we should see a lot more high quality studies that can help us figure this out. This is tangential, but it seems odd to me that many of the same people who are opposed to GMOs on the grounds that “science may have missed something” are okay with legalizing pot until science clearly demonstrates harm. Note that I’m not directing that at you (I don’t think you said anything like what I’m describing), but your quip made me think of it. I’m only calling this out as an intriguing observation; not trying to pick on anyone.
    - eloff 8y ago
      I've also noticed that. People are illogical.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
otakucode 8y ago
Every study done, and likely to ever be done given ethical standards, attempting to link marijuana usage to mental illness shares the same fundamental problem which makes their results meaningless: It cannot account for self-selection. There is no way to know that those who would later be diagnosed with schizophrenia were not self medicating with marijuana, leading to the causation actually being backwards. And in that case there is also no way to know what effect preventing that self medication might have had, and whether it would be positive or negative. Short of a plausible neurochemical explanation of how it would happen, phenomenological studies like those have to be discarded. They simply don't have the ability to illuminate anything, they can only feed intuitive guesses which is always dangerous in issues of health.
- mywittyname 8y ago
  This same argument could be applied to many long-term medical studies: Maybe people with a pre-disposition to heart disease also hate exercising, so the link between heart disease is and lack of exercise is backwards. Yeah, that doesn't work. Ignoring the link between mental illness and marijuana use is ridiculous. A medical study doesn't need 100% confidence to be true. If we held all of medical science to that bar, we'd never make progress. Plus, we have a colloquialism for a person whose mind appears to have suffered damage from excessive marijuana usage: a burnout. It's something that even recreational users observe. And where there's smoke...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - bsder 8y ago
    > Ignoring the link between mental illness and marijuana use is ridiculous. Your statement presupposes the conclusion. You need to consider two different questions: 1) Do we have correlation between marijuana usage and mental illness above and beyond the line for something as common as alcohol or cigarettes? 2) Do we have have causation between marijuana and mental illness? Most studies barely reach an "inconclusive, needs more study" on 1). 2) isn't even in scope yet. > Plus, we have a colloquialism for a person whose mind appears to have suffered damage from excessive marijuana usage: a burnout. We also have a word for someone with the same issue on a different drug--alcoholic. I'm pretty sure we have far more conclusive evidence of the mental damage that alcohol does than the damage that marijuana does.
bitzun 8y ago
Fun anecdote, my Bipolar disorder didn't manifest itself until immediately after the first time I consumed marijuana, and it is now a lifetime endeavor.
- zahrc 8y ago
  I know a lot of people who tried out marijuana as a medication for depression. (well, illegal / no prescription) It helped in the beginning, but most of them just became addicted, paranoid and incredible slow thinkers and figuratively numb. Depression is hell, but it's not worth giving up your sanity and intellect.
  - adventured 8y ago
    I'm a big supporter of legalization, because I think prohibition is dramatically worse than any negatives from people smoking pot (similar to alcohol, etc). That said, the two friends of mine that were the heaviest smokers, saw dramatic improvements in their lives in the few years immediately following giving up smoking pot. Both in terms of health and professional success. They were recreational smokers, rather than smoking for pain purposes or similar, it should be noted. One of them has become a very successful business person, the pot smoking had considerably dulled their ambition. They used to do the minimum to further their life. Afterward, their potential was unleashed, it was night and day (and a dramatic benefit to the well-being of their family).
    - eternalban 8y ago
      > I think prohibition is dramatically worse than any negatives from people smoking pot (similar to alcohol, etc). Alcohol has been an integral part of Western civilization for quite a while now. Prohibition on alcohol is in no way comparable to prohibition on pot [in terms of its impact]. Why do you think its prohibition is "dramatically" worse than making this mind altering substance generally available? [secret handshake disclaimer: I liked Spliff and I don't mean just the band.]
      - 8y ago
LrnByTeach 8y ago
All high school weed smokers are not equal. There are many occasional smokers. For the sake of simplicity, let me put a number here. High schooler between 9th to 12 grade who smoke weed at least 10 times a week all four years will settle in LIFE below 50% of his potential (compared to how he would have done without weed)
- mizchief2 8y ago
  In my own personal observations it seems people get stuck in the mindset / maturity level at which they start smoking.
- ska 8y ago
  Citation very much needed :)
- memebox3v 8y ago
  I knew a guy at university who smoked everyday. And before he took exams or tests, he would do a bong hit to settle his nerves. He got a 1st in Chemistry. #anecdatasmackdown
  - flattone 8y ago
    +1 definitely know a few people who somehow (total mystery to me) their brains are on fire when using. Similarly have opposite examples... It just seems to work differently for differently people.
    - spiritcat 8y ago
      used to be this way, then i got old.
  - LrnByTeach 8y ago
    >a guy at university who smoked everyday You did not read my post well. You did not know the guy you said did what I mentioned "10 times a week, for all 4 years 9-12 grade", If he did, he is unlikely to reach university. Even if few kids reach university with parents money, they would not have got 1st in Chemistry. You may still show me 15 guys who reached university top class ranks after doing 4 year high school heavy weed. In the same high school I can show 85 kids (4 year high school heavy weed users) whose life prospects are diminished by the time they finish the collage . That is the whole point
mizchief2 8y ago
Sort of like alcohol, some people can drink a few every now and then and be fine, where others become totally dependent. Some people can process sugar just fine, while others are diabetic. Like you said no reason to put people in prison for using it, and if anything being able to legally research it's affects can provide more information for people who may be harmed.
ghostly_s 8y ago
I'm not an expert on this though my father is, and from my recollection of our conversations I believe schizophrenia being latent until some trauma 'triggers' it in young adulthood is a quite common pattern, especially in men. Drug use is just one of many events that can induce this, and I don't believe it's in line with current clinical understanding to say that "door" "may have stayed shut otherwise".
ghobs91 8y ago
If anything, legalization will greatly increase the sample size of users that are comfortable with taking part in studies that could confirm the effects of marijuana on cognitive performance.
jwdunne 8y ago
A personal anecdote of mine. A friend has schizophrenia. There was a clear point of descent from smoking cannabis. He was 13 at the time - young for schizophrenia. He's now on clozapine, a powerful antipsychotic. Whenever his judgement fails him and he smokes pot, it's weeks to months before he has to spend some time in hospital. Otherwise, he could take other, heavier drugs to excess and not require urgent hospitalisation. The rule for him was always "cannabis triggers".
- jhayward 8y ago
  You've illustrated the problem in anecdata: Nothing in what you said indicates that cannabis causes his episodes. It is just as likely, given the description, that the sequence that results in an episode includes the prompts that trigger him to medicate with cannabis. This is why we can't use personal experience to make public policy.
  - jwdunne 8y ago
    Nope. I understand that. I wouldn't say that cannabis causes schizophrenia or even episodes. It's more a story of how my friend and the people that love him came to view cannabis as it relates to his illness. It's an "understanding" if you will held by carers and primary care givers alike. If you suffer from psychosis, they make a point of warning about cannabis. Perhaps the lapse in judgement is a sign of an oncoming episode, with weed unnecessarily blamed. But the experience of so many people and the possibility of a link deserves to be investigated with the rigour of science.
  - mike10010100 8y ago
    This exactly. Right now we have correlation. A ton of people in this thread are trying to divine causation.
acjohnson55 8y ago
I personally find that in the times I've used marijuana, there's a very small zone between no effect and feeling like I'm clinging to my sanity. I rarely partake. It reminds me of how people describe ayahuasca as being profound, but not fun.
bsder 8y ago
> but I don't think we can treat pot as totally harmless for people under 30 and teens in particular because it seems like it's very harmful for some. But I can say the same for alcohol and cigarettes and ... While there are a few diehards, most sane people will not defend "marijuana is harmless"--even for adults. It's a drug; it does something to your mind; that's why you use it. However, the increasing amount of data suggests that what harm marijuana does is in the same class as things like alcohol and cigarettes--which are legal, but regulated.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

BurningFrog 8y ago

> I don't think we can treat pot as totally harmless for people under 30 and teens in particular because it seems like it's very harmful for some. You're right, of course. But the same is true of peanuts.

tachyonbeam 8y ago
The problem is that the discourse right now is extremely polarized, following the left/right divide in politics. You have people on the right claiming that pot will automatically ruin your life, and (some) people on the left pretending it's completely benign and almost a panacea. I once watched a "documentary" claiming that pot cures cancer! I kid you not. The fact is, it's a substance that affects different people differently. It can cause intense anxiety in some people, and it can severely impair your judgement. Responsible use requires that users be properly informed of the risks. We need to be having a more balanced and honest discussion about this, and many other issues.
- freedomben 8y ago
  I agree with you that it is extremely polarized, but disagree that it follows the left/right divide in politics. I have many friends and family on all sides of the spectrum, and there are many conservatives that have opinions like, "it's not for me, but I don't care what you do with your body" (not a typical conservative position IMHO, but becoming more common). I've also been hearing the "I support medical, but not recreational." Even here in Utah, a very conservative state, we are close to legalizing medical cannabis with prop 2. On the progressive side I've been starting to hear people saying more and more that the evidence is incomplete, and therefore the government needs to consider regulating it much more heavily or wait to legalize until more science is done. Of course, those are not the stereotypical views, but it's one of the issues that seems to cross left/right divides a lot more than others.
LrnByTeach 8y ago
Let us say there are 100 teens in your neighborhood, 65 of them tried eating peanuts and 20 of them liked very much and started eating multiple times a week on a regular basis. Now 5 of those 20 started developing health/mental problems which are noticeable by parents, teachers & doctors. What are the chances of the majority of those 5 stop eating peanuts, It is very high. Now, what are the chances of similar 5 teens stop using weed for health/mental problems?
- thecatspaw 8y ago
  The same? You can rationalize peanuts beeing unhealthy for you exactly the same way you can rationalize away health issues due to marijuana. "All other people eating it are fine" "I've been eating peanuts for 5 years, and look, Im still alive"
  - LrnByTeach 8y ago
    >The same? It is not the same. Look at the opioid epidemic in teens across USA, talk to health care providers in that area, there is very well recorded evidence "a BIG percentage" of kids who personally noticed "Learning problems and other mental problems" are UNABLE to STOP using weed. Vs. There is recorded clinical data evidence throughout USA hospitals. Millions of kids across the country were found having various kinds of food allergies and advised by the doctors to stop eating those foods and the vast majority DID STOP eating them.
    - thecatspaw 8y ago
      Yes, but a food allergy is something you can feel. You feel sick, you might have to go to the hospital once or twice if you ate something which contained peanuts. It is a much tighter feedback loop. Eat some peanuts -> feel sick -> go to hospital. As far as I am aware this loop is very quick. If you extend this feedback loop to span multiple years, the connection between trigger and result is a lot more blurry, and it leaves more room for rationalization. The comparision is "If you eat this, you will probably die if you do not get immediate treatment" versus "If you smoke this, in some time in the future you might have mental health issues. Or you might be totally fine" Peanuts are also not (mentally) addictive, and neither do they alter your mental state. People like to take chances, and hope that its not gonna be them who get mentally ill.

galvin 8y ago

As I understand it THC aggravates symptoms in people predisposed to psychosis. CBD is antipsychotic and can have a balancing effect but unfortunately growers have been selectively breeding and optimizing for high THC at the expense of CBD for decades. The result is that cannabis is more "incompatible" with certain people than it used to be.

the-pigeon 8y ago
Which is one of the big problems with cannabis studies. THC is known as the "active" ingredient in cannabis. However we know it's definitely not the only one. There are 113 identified cannabinoids. Most are believed to have some effect. And there's terpenes that are believed to have effects as well. So the problem is that ever single bit of cannabis has different ratios of these chemicals. Even two plants with the exact same genetics grown in same conditions can have widely ranging ratios. Which potentially means widely ranging effects. The good thing is with legalization moving along we should see a lot more high quality studies that can help us figure this out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-101/terpenes-the-flavors-of-cannabis-aromatherapy https://www.leafly.com/news/cannabis-101/terpenes-the-flavor... http://www.ncsm.nl/english/what-is-medicinal-cannabis/active-ingredients#Terpenes http://www.ncsm.nl/english/what-is-medicinal-cannabis/active...
- weberc2 8y ago
  > The good thing is with legalization moving along we should see a lot more high quality studies that can help us figure this out. This is tangential, but it seems odd to me that many of the same people who are opposed to GMOs on the grounds that “science may have missed something” are okay with legalizing pot until science clearly demonstrates harm. Note that I’m not directing that at you (I don’t think you said anything like what I’m describing), but your quip made me think of it. I’m only calling this out as an intriguing observation; not trying to pick on anyone.
  - eloff 8y ago
    I've also noticed that. People are illogical.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

otakucode 8y ago

Every study done, and likely to ever be done given ethical standards, attempting to link marijuana usage to mental illness shares the same fundamental problem which makes their results meaningless: It cannot account for self-selection. There is no way to know that those who would later be diagnosed with schizophrenia were not self medicating with marijuana, leading to the causation actually being backwards. And in that case there is also no way to know what effect preventing that self medication might have had, and whether it would be positive or negative. Short of a plausible neurochemical explanation of how it would happen, phenomenological studies like those have to be discarded. They simply don't have the ability to illuminate anything, they can only feed intuitive guesses which is always dangerous in issues of health.

mywittyname 8y ago
This same argument could be applied to many long-term medical studies: Maybe people with a pre-disposition to heart disease also hate exercising, so the link between heart disease is and lack of exercise is backwards. Yeah, that doesn't work. Ignoring the link between mental illness and marijuana use is ridiculous. A medical study doesn't need 100% confidence to be true. If we held all of medical science to that bar, we'd never make progress. Plus, we have a colloquialism for a person whose mind appears to have suffered damage from excessive marijuana usage: a burnout. It's something that even recreational users observe. And where there's smoke...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- bsder 8y ago
  > Ignoring the link between mental illness and marijuana use is ridiculous. Your statement presupposes the conclusion. You need to consider two different questions: 1) Do we have correlation between marijuana usage and mental illness above and beyond the line for something as common as alcohol or cigarettes? 2) Do we have have causation between marijuana and mental illness? Most studies barely reach an "inconclusive, needs more study" on 1). 2) isn't even in scope yet. > Plus, we have a colloquialism for a person whose mind appears to have suffered damage from excessive marijuana usage: a burnout. We also have a word for someone with the same issue on a different drug--alcoholic. I'm pretty sure we have far more conclusive evidence of the mental damage that alcohol does than the damage that marijuana does.

bitzun 8y ago

Fun anecdote, my Bipolar disorder didn't manifest itself until immediately after the first time I consumed marijuana, and it is now a lifetime endeavor.

zahrc 8y ago
I know a lot of people who tried out marijuana as a medication for depression. (well, illegal / no prescription) It helped in the beginning, but most of them just became addicted, paranoid and incredible slow thinkers and figuratively numb. Depression is hell, but it's not worth giving up your sanity and intellect.
- adventured 8y ago
  I'm a big supporter of legalization, because I think prohibition is dramatically worse than any negatives from people smoking pot (similar to alcohol, etc). That said, the two friends of mine that were the heaviest smokers, saw dramatic improvements in their lives in the few years immediately following giving up smoking pot. Both in terms of health and professional success. They were recreational smokers, rather than smoking for pain purposes or similar, it should be noted. One of them has become a very successful business person, the pot smoking had considerably dulled their ambition. They used to do the minimum to further their life. Afterward, their potential was unleashed, it was night and day (and a dramatic benefit to the well-being of their family).
  - eternalban 8y ago
    > I think prohibition is dramatically worse than any negatives from people smoking pot (similar to alcohol, etc). Alcohol has been an integral part of Western civilization for quite a while now. Prohibition on alcohol is in no way comparable to prohibition on pot [in terms of its impact]. Why do you think its prohibition is "dramatically" worse than making this mind altering substance generally available? [secret handshake disclaimer: I liked Spliff and I don't mean just the band.]
    - 8y ago

LrnByTeach 8y ago

All high school weed smokers are not equal. There are many occasional smokers. For the sake of simplicity, let me put a number here. High schooler between 9th to 12 grade who smoke weed at least 10 times a week all four years will settle in LIFE below 50% of his potential (compared to how he would have done without weed)

mizchief2 8y ago
In my own personal observations it seems people get stuck in the mindset / maturity level at which they start smoking.
ska 8y ago
Citation very much needed :)
memebox3v 8y ago
I knew a guy at university who smoked everyday. And before he took exams or tests, he would do a bong hit to settle his nerves. He got a 1st in Chemistry. #anecdatasmackdown
- flattone 8y ago
  +1 definitely know a few people who somehow (total mystery to me) their brains are on fire when using. Similarly have opposite examples... It just seems to work differently for differently people.
  - spiritcat 8y ago
    used to be this way, then i got old.
- LrnByTeach 8y ago
  >a guy at university who smoked everyday You did not read my post well. You did not know the guy you said did what I mentioned "10 times a week, for all 4 years 9-12 grade", If he did, he is unlikely to reach university. Even if few kids reach university with parents money, they would not have got 1st in Chemistry. You may still show me 15 guys who reached university top class ranks after doing 4 year high school heavy weed. In the same high school I can show 85 kids (4 year high school heavy weed users) whose life prospects are diminished by the time they finish the collage . That is the whole point

mizchief2 8y ago

Sort of like alcohol, some people can drink a few every now and then and be fine, where others become totally dependent. Some people can process sugar just fine, while others are diabetic. Like you said no reason to put people in prison for using it, and if anything being able to legally research it's affects can provide more information for people who may be harmed.

ghostly_s 8y ago

I'm not an expert on this though my father is, and from my recollection of our conversations I believe schizophrenia being latent until some trauma 'triggers' it in young adulthood is a quite common pattern, especially in men. Drug use is just one of many events that can induce this, and I don't believe it's in line with current clinical understanding to say that "door" "may have stayed shut otherwise".

ghobs91 8y ago

If anything, legalization will greatly increase the sample size of users that are comfortable with taking part in studies that could confirm the effects of marijuana on cognitive performance.

jwdunne 8y ago

A personal anecdote of mine. A friend has schizophrenia. There was a clear point of descent from smoking cannabis. He was 13 at the time - young for schizophrenia. He's now on clozapine, a powerful antipsychotic. Whenever his judgement fails him and he smokes pot, it's weeks to months before he has to spend some time in hospital. Otherwise, he could take other, heavier drugs to excess and not require urgent hospitalisation. The rule for him was always "cannabis triggers".

jhayward 8y ago
You've illustrated the problem in anecdata: Nothing in what you said indicates that cannabis causes his episodes. It is just as likely, given the description, that the sequence that results in an episode includes the prompts that trigger him to medicate with cannabis. This is why we can't use personal experience to make public policy.
- jwdunne 8y ago
  Nope. I understand that. I wouldn't say that cannabis causes schizophrenia or even episodes. It's more a story of how my friend and the people that love him came to view cannabis as it relates to his illness. It's an "understanding" if you will held by carers and primary care givers alike. If you suffer from psychosis, they make a point of warning about cannabis. Perhaps the lapse in judgement is a sign of an oncoming episode, with weed unnecessarily blamed. But the experience of so many people and the possibility of a link deserves to be investigated with the rigour of science.
- mike10010100 8y ago
  This exactly. Right now we have correlation. A ton of people in this thread are trying to divine causation.

acjohnson55 8y ago

I personally find that in the times I've used marijuana, there's a very small zone between no effect and feeling like I'm clinging to my sanity. I rarely partake. It reminds me of how people describe ayahuasca as being profound, but not fun.

bsder 8y ago

> but I don't think we can treat pot as totally harmless for people under 30 and teens in particular because it seems like it's very harmful for some. But I can say the same for alcohol and cigarettes and ... While there are a few diehards, most sane people will not defend "marijuana is harmless"--even for adults. It's a drug; it does something to your mind; that's why you use it. However, the increasing amount of data suggests that what harm marijuana does is in the same class as things like alcohol and cigarettes--which are legal, but regulated.