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I’m so glad this topic has come up. I have a young child with some apple devices. Apple has a feature where the child can request permission to download an app,

I’m so glad this topic has come up. I have a young child with some apple devices. Apple has a feature where the child can request permission to download an app, I can approve or not. This is great... but it would be awesome if I could approve with “ads off”, I don’t mind taking the $$ hit on install. What infuriates me is finding out 3 days later that my kid is either being distracted non stop to an unplayable level with ads or trading eyeball time to watch in app videos in exchange for some monetary system to be used in game play. What I can’t stand, when it comes to kids, is when I have to become an expert at X to be able to trust that something is a safe environment for a child. I have to actually check the game, play it, figure out its incentive protocol and then buy the ads away. Some games sell the ads away but still have incentives to purposefully sell your time watching a video to get more points / currency. Here is what I want. I want a way to trial a game without ads. If I like the game I’ll buy it for $1-$20 just like I would in a physical store. Then it’s my game no ads or weird economic models. If the game maker “needs” recurring money to provide the game play then eat me signup for a subscription like I would on Netflix. I want a straightforward way to own the game or at least use it like I own it (SaaS like)

r_singh 8y ago
Your comment makes me wish there was a way for parents to curate the appstore for their kids.
- setquk 8y ago
  There is and I do it. I play the game the first time. If I’m not happy it gets removed.
  - r_singh 8y ago
    Kudos to you, wish there was an easier way though!
    - setquk 8y ago
      It's fun playing the games so it's win win ;)
- dangwu 8y ago
  A curated or crowded sourced app directory for ad-free games is a good idea! Would be a great weekend project for someone.
  - r_singh 8y ago
    I'm a dev, not sure about a weekend, but I could get an app up in a few weeks for sure. I'm gonna think of this.
tiglionabbit 8y ago
Too many apps are like that. What you want sounds a lot more like a normal game console.
- kalleboo 8y ago
  Exactly. Buy a Nintendo DS
  - apexalpha 8y ago
    Yes, Nintendo is a bless in this Game as a service, DLC invoking, in-app world. Truly becoming special by just staying normal.
nitemice 8y ago
This problem isn't isolated to kids games though. Just look at the "fee-to-pay" models employed by many AAA games these days. Game publishers have decided that SaaS-style ongoing revenue is the way to make money, and they will employ such at every turn. Every game has to be a "live service" now, with a bunch of gambling mechanics crammed in to make money on top of the purchase price.
jakobegger 8y ago
Yep, the app store really, really needs a section for games that are ad-free and that don't have any consumable in-app-purchases. Angry Birds was a really nice game, and I'd love to let my kids play it, but it just isn't playable any more. It's so full of crap. Ads, in-app-purchases, loads of shit. I'd easily pay 10€ to get back the original version of Angry Birds that I bought in 2010 or so, but that version is gone for good. There are some games that aren't full of crap. Monument Valley, Alto's Adventure, Pinout, Blyss, Canabalt, Glider, Paw Patrol, Duplo Trains are some ad-free games that I can recommend. I'd love to have some kind of curated list of ad-free games. The games that Apple promotes / features in the store are usually less obnoxious, but I'm not sure if there's a way to search for them. Since Apple has removed the affiliate payments for apps, I don't think there's an easily monetisable way to build a recommendation website for ad-free games, but it may be possible to build it as a volunteer effort?
- Double_a_92 8y ago
  > I'd easily pay 10€ to get back the original version of Angry Birds that I bought in 2010 or so, but that version is gone for good. You can still find old APKs of it on the internet. I had to use one because the updated game has become unplayably slow on my 2015ish phone.
- fouc 8y ago
  Perhaps we need to consider if something is wrong about this culture of constant upgrades. Not just phone apps, but other applications too. Upgrades are actually hostile to the end user. There's nothing to counter the incentives of companies to keep sneaking in more ways to squeeze money out of their users. Interestingly thinking back, I remember when I first discovered Chrome's aggressive autoupdate and I felt disquieted. Now I have a better sense that it's fundamentally not to the benefit of the end user. Actually there's some benefits for web developers, which tricks them into becoming part of this culture, and heavily pushing for these newer browsers with their built-in autoupdates now.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    Problem is, most software upgrades are all-or-nothing. You can’t just take the good (security fixes, better performance, etc.) and leave the bad (reduced functionality, new worse UI, more ads). It’s in my view a major unsolved problem in software.
aidos 8y ago
It’s dreadful. I think Android is worse - though we only have an Android tablet and not an iPad. It’s virtually impossible to find a game for the kids that’s a) not loaded with ads and b) doesn’t want permission to your entire life to install it. Honestly, it’s rendered our tablet obsolete. On occasions where we try to sit together to find something new for them to play, we all end up giving up because I refuse to let them install what seems to amount to spyware disguised as kids content. Top tip: Whenever I do let them on devices, I put them into airplane mode. Also, my kids are happy struggling away at The Witness, so that’s kinda a win.
- icebraining 8y ago
  Android is fine, just use emulators :) Even a cheap phone like my Moto G can run everything up to and including N64 games. I'm sporadically replaying Super Mario 64 on my commute.
tombrossman 8y ago
Android apps that contain ads are clearly labelled in the Google Play Store. The text "Contains Ads" appears right at the top of each listing by the title. There is no such standard in Apple's App Store, and this could easily be remedied by Apple if they cared. Like others here have already stated, I'm happy to pay for apps. One-off purchase, subscriptions, whatever. I used exclusively Android since the first device (T-Mobile G1) and finally switched to iOS earlier this year, and this has been the biggest obstacle so far. I'd like to install more apps but my phone is pretty much stock since I have no way of knowing whether apps are full of ads. I am more than a little sceptical of Tim Cook's fiery "data industrial complex" speech last week as he's still not yet ready to take that first baby step and begin warning privacy-conscious users about adware. How do you overlook this as CEO? The other security features on iOS are first-rate, why deliberately overlook adware? I don't get it.
- IshKebab 8y ago
  Yes that is definitely good but in practice 80% of apps contain ads (based on a quick check of the top 20 games I just did) and there's no way to search for only apps without ads.
  - StreakyCobra 8y ago
    You can do it with Yalp Store [1], it lets you filter apps with/without ads. [1] https://github.com/yeriomin/YalpStore https://github.com/yeriomin/YalpStore
    - Can_Not 8y ago
      It would be amazing if there were an app store or curator where you could filter out shovel by criteria. Filtering out "full of pay-walls" and "abuse of in-game currency" doesn't seem possible in Google Play. There are valid games that have ads and value games that accept IAP.
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
Look outside the phone IMO, mobile games are mostly shit - I'm starting to think they're worse even than flash games of old. Get them a Nintendo DS instead, mostly kid-safe games, no ads, restricted or no internet connectivity, oh and the games are so much better.
- ndnxhs 8y ago
  Flash games were made to be enjoyed. They may have been developed by inexperienced developers but at least they weren't trying to suck money out of you in every way possible.
beerlord 8y ago
The simplest solution to this problem is simply to buy a Nintendo Switch. You can control exactly which games are installed, and and rely on the fact that they are not exploitative. For web browsing you can then have a desktop hooked up to a monitor in your living room. You can buy small simple systems that connect to the VESA mount on the back of a monitor. Its unfortunate that mobile gaming is as it is, but its really up to the platform holders to manage. I think the problem is also that smartphones really don't have a lot of RAM, storage space, or battery life, so any entertainment they provide needs to be in short, high-impact chunks. This encourages the story-lite puzzle games which are precision engineered to be as psychologically manipulative and cash extractive as possible.
- VLM 8y ago
  The standard switch game price of $60 (admittedly, everything seems to always be on sale) provides some insight into the economics of the free/99cent upfront mobile game revenue extraction model.
briffle 8y ago
amazon's 'freetime' for their kindle is close. No games in there have any additional cost or ads. the problem is, finding decent games/books/etc, targeted to your kids age. The search/navigation is pretty hit or miss.
antidaily 8y ago
Yes. It's infuriating to me that even some Apple's "Games we Love" are packed with ads and predatory buy-coins-to-unlock-things formats.

r_singh 8y ago

Your comment makes me wish there was a way for parents to curate the appstore for their kids.

setquk 8y ago
There is and I do it. I play the game the first time. If I’m not happy it gets removed.
- r_singh 8y ago
  Kudos to you, wish there was an easier way though!
  - setquk 8y ago
    It's fun playing the games so it's win win ;)
dangwu 8y ago
A curated or crowded sourced app directory for ad-free games is a good idea! Would be a great weekend project for someone.
- r_singh 8y ago
  I'm a dev, not sure about a weekend, but I could get an app up in a few weeks for sure. I'm gonna think of this.

tiglionabbit 8y ago

Too many apps are like that. What you want sounds a lot more like a normal game console.

kalleboo 8y ago
Exactly. Buy a Nintendo DS
- apexalpha 8y ago
  Yes, Nintendo is a bless in this Game as a service, DLC invoking, in-app world. Truly becoming special by just staying normal.

nitemice 8y ago

This problem isn't isolated to kids games though. Just look at the "fee-to-pay" models employed by many AAA games these days. Game publishers have decided that SaaS-style ongoing revenue is the way to make money, and they will employ such at every turn. Every game has to be a "live service" now, with a bunch of gambling mechanics crammed in to make money on top of the purchase price.

jakobegger 8y ago

Yep, the app store really, really needs a section for games that are ad-free and that don't have any consumable in-app-purchases. Angry Birds was a really nice game, and I'd love to let my kids play it, but it just isn't playable any more. It's so full of crap. Ads, in-app-purchases, loads of shit. I'd easily pay 10€ to get back the original version of Angry Birds that I bought in 2010 or so, but that version is gone for good. There are some games that aren't full of crap. Monument Valley, Alto's Adventure, Pinout, Blyss, Canabalt, Glider, Paw Patrol, Duplo Trains are some ad-free games that I can recommend. I'd love to have some kind of curated list of ad-free games. The games that Apple promotes / features in the store are usually less obnoxious, but I'm not sure if there's a way to search for them. Since Apple has removed the affiliate payments for apps, I don't think there's an easily monetisable way to build a recommendation website for ad-free games, but it may be possible to build it as a volunteer effort?

Double_a_92 8y ago
> I'd easily pay 10€ to get back the original version of Angry Birds that I bought in 2010 or so, but that version is gone for good. You can still find old APKs of it on the internet. I had to use one because the updated game has become unplayably slow on my 2015ish phone.
fouc 8y ago
Perhaps we need to consider if something is wrong about this culture of constant upgrades. Not just phone apps, but other applications too. Upgrades are actually hostile to the end user. There's nothing to counter the incentives of companies to keep sneaking in more ways to squeeze money out of their users. Interestingly thinking back, I remember when I first discovered Chrome's aggressive autoupdate and I felt disquieted. Now I have a better sense that it's fundamentally not to the benefit of the end user. Actually there's some benefits for web developers, which tricks them into becoming part of this culture, and heavily pushing for these newer browsers with their built-in autoupdates now.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  Problem is, most software upgrades are all-or-nothing. You can’t just take the good (security fixes, better performance, etc.) and leave the bad (reduced functionality, new worse UI, more ads). It’s in my view a major unsolved problem in software.

aidos 8y ago

It’s dreadful. I think Android is worse - though we only have an Android tablet and not an iPad. It’s virtually impossible to find a game for the kids that’s a) not loaded with ads and b) doesn’t want permission to your entire life to install it. Honestly, it’s rendered our tablet obsolete. On occasions where we try to sit together to find something new for them to play, we all end up giving up because I refuse to let them install what seems to amount to spyware disguised as kids content. Top tip: Whenever I do let them on devices, I put them into airplane mode. Also, my kids are happy struggling away at The Witness, so that’s kinda a win.

icebraining 8y ago
Android is fine, just use emulators :) Even a cheap phone like my Moto G can run everything up to and including N64 games. I'm sporadically replaying Super Mario 64 on my commute.

tombrossman 8y ago

Android apps that contain ads are clearly labelled in the Google Play Store. The text "Contains Ads" appears right at the top of each listing by the title. There is no such standard in Apple's App Store, and this could easily be remedied by Apple if they cared. Like others here have already stated, I'm happy to pay for apps. One-off purchase, subscriptions, whatever. I used exclusively Android since the first device (T-Mobile G1) and finally switched to iOS earlier this year, and this has been the biggest obstacle so far. I'd like to install more apps but my phone is pretty much stock since I have no way of knowing whether apps are full of ads. I am more than a little sceptical of Tim Cook's fiery "data industrial complex" speech last week as he's still not yet ready to take that first baby step and begin warning privacy-conscious users about adware. How do you overlook this as CEO? The other security features on iOS are first-rate, why deliberately overlook adware? I don't get it.

IshKebab 8y ago
Yes that is definitely good but in practice 80% of apps contain ads (based on a quick check of the top 20 games I just did) and there's no way to search for only apps without ads.
- StreakyCobra 8y ago
  You can do it with Yalp Store [1], it lets you filter apps with/without ads. [1] https://github.com/yeriomin/YalpStore https://github.com/yeriomin/YalpStore
  - Can_Not 8y ago
    It would be amazing if there were an app store or curator where you could filter out shovel by criteria. Filtering out "full of pay-walls" and "abuse of in-game currency" doesn't seem possible in Google Play. There are valid games that have ads and value games that accept IAP.

Cthulhu_ 8y ago

Look outside the phone IMO, mobile games are mostly shit - I'm starting to think they're worse even than flash games of old. Get them a Nintendo DS instead, mostly kid-safe games, no ads, restricted or no internet connectivity, oh and the games are so much better.

ndnxhs 8y ago
Flash games were made to be enjoyed. They may have been developed by inexperienced developers but at least they weren't trying to suck money out of you in every way possible.

beerlord 8y ago

The simplest solution to this problem is simply to buy a Nintendo Switch. You can control exactly which games are installed, and and rely on the fact that they are not exploitative. For web browsing you can then have a desktop hooked up to a monitor in your living room. You can buy small simple systems that connect to the VESA mount on the back of a monitor. Its unfortunate that mobile gaming is as it is, but its really up to the platform holders to manage. I think the problem is also that smartphones really don't have a lot of RAM, storage space, or battery life, so any entertainment they provide needs to be in short, high-impact chunks. This encourages the story-lite puzzle games which are precision engineered to be as psychologically manipulative and cash extractive as possible.

VLM 8y ago
The standard switch game price of $60 (admittedly, everything seems to always be on sale) provides some insight into the economics of the free/99cent upfront mobile game revenue extraction model.

briffle 8y ago

amazon's 'freetime' for their kindle is close. No games in there have any additional cost or ads. the problem is, finding decent games/books/etc, targeted to your kids age. The search/navigation is pretty hit or miss.

antidaily 8y ago

Yes. It's infuriating to me that even some Apple's "Games we Love" are packed with ads and predatory buy-coins-to-unlock-things formats.