5 ms·

I expect Rust's resident GC expert enlighten people working on ZGC why their approach is wrong in trading throughput for low latency. And that they need to lear

by geodel 8y ago

I expect Rust's resident GC expert enlighten people working on ZGC why their approach is wrong in trading throughput for low latency. And that they need to learn from hotspot GC.

jganetsk 8y ago
Rust doesn't have GC.
- sitkack 8y ago
  Not in this universe.
- dpc_pw 8y ago
  Sure we do: https://boats.gitlab.io/blog/post/shifgrethor-iii/ https://boats.gitlab.io/blog/post/shifgrethor-iii/ ;)
- weberc2 8y ago
  Rust has a static GC https://words.steveklabnik.com/borrow-checking-escape-analysis-and-the-generational-hypothesis https://words.steveklabnik.com/borrow-checking-escape-analys... :)
solarkraft 8y ago
Rust GC?
steveklabnik 8y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144169
weberc2 8y ago
I agree his posts were tiresome, but it's one thing to respond to such a post and quite another to drudge up the issue appropos of nothing. :(
fmstephe 8y ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14379636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14379636 I assume this relates to this conversation? This is a bit of a snippet from a broader discussion (which I found really interesting). Maybe there were other discussions here about GC that I missed. I would like to respond here, not because I want to continue some heated debate, but because questions of garbage collectors and the _many_ decisions and trade-offs available are very interesting. And they deserve a good treatment. I don't think it's really fair to characterise pcwalton's position in this way. I think that his comments on Go's GC were quite reasonable and well informed. Go (which I think (and maybe mistakenly) is the real subject of the parent comment) _does_ have a very innefficient GC right now. But that could be changing in a near-future. Some people are experimenting with adding generations to Go garbage collector. It's not clear how long this will take to accomplish. In addition to the problem of 'building a generational GC that is low latency' there are lots of parts of the runtime which currently rely on memory allocations not moving. So there's a lot of ordinary engineering work to be done to ensure that _everything_ works with a generational GC. So in this respect Go may soon 'learn from hotspot'. In order to avoid anyone thinking that I am anti-Go. I am a full time Go programmer. I really like Go, and I think the decision to prioritise latency over throughput was the right choice. But, there is a lot that can be improved in the current GC. I spend a fair bit of my time trying to manage it during they day. Anyway, it feels a bit sad to see this super super fun topic turn into some kind of grudge. If pcwalton has thoughts on ZGC I would be keen to hear them.
- weberc2 8y ago
  > it feels a bit sad to see this super super fun topic turn into some kind of grudge. If pcwalton has thoughts on ZGC I would be keen to hear them. Absolutely agree. To add a little more context, the frustrations were that his comments were repetitive and the threads didn't go anywhere and generally distracted from more productive conversations. Minor nuissance, and it's been a while since he's posted more of those comments (at least I haven't seen them in a while), so we should get off his back (not all of my comments have been solid gold either). He's a knowledgable person and has a lot to offer me and this community generally. Hopefully we can all move past this and be a little more gracious and tactful with each other, because you're right--this is a really interesting, fun topic.

by geodel 8y ago

I expect Rust's resident GC expert enlighten people working on ZGC why their approach is wrong in trading throughput for low latency. And that they need to learn from hotspot GC.

jganetsk 8y ago

Rust doesn't have GC.

sitkack 8y ago
Not in this universe.
dpc_pw 8y ago
Sure we do: https://boats.gitlab.io/blog/post/shifgrethor-iii/ https://boats.gitlab.io/blog/post/shifgrethor-iii/ ;)
weberc2 8y ago
Rust has a static GC https://words.steveklabnik.com/borrow-checking-escape-analysis-and-the-generational-hypothesis https://words.steveklabnik.com/borrow-checking-escape-analys... :)

solarkraft 8y ago

Rust GC?

steveklabnik 8y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144169 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18144169

weberc2 8y ago

I agree his posts were tiresome, but it's one thing to respond to such a post and quite another to drudge up the issue appropos of nothing. :(

fmstephe 8y ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14379636 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14379636 I assume this relates to this conversation? This is a bit of a snippet from a broader discussion (which I found really interesting). Maybe there were other discussions here about GC that I missed. I would like to respond here, not because I want to continue some heated debate, but because questions of garbage collectors and the _many_ decisions and trade-offs available are very interesting. And they deserve a good treatment. I don't think it's really fair to characterise pcwalton's position in this way. I think that his comments on Go's GC were quite reasonable and well informed. Go (which I think (and maybe mistakenly) is the real subject of the parent comment) _does_ have a very innefficient GC right now. But that could be changing in a near-future. Some people are experimenting with adding generations to Go garbage collector. It's not clear how long this will take to accomplish. In addition to the problem of 'building a generational GC that is low latency' there are lots of parts of the runtime which currently rely on memory allocations not moving. So there's a lot of ordinary engineering work to be done to ensure that _everything_ works with a generational GC. So in this respect Go may soon 'learn from hotspot'. In order to avoid anyone thinking that I am anti-Go. I am a full time Go programmer. I really like Go, and I think the decision to prioritise latency over throughput was the right choice. But, there is a lot that can be improved in the current GC. I spend a fair bit of my time trying to manage it during they day. Anyway, it feels a bit sad to see this super super fun topic turn into some kind of grudge. If pcwalton has thoughts on ZGC I would be keen to hear them.

weberc2 8y ago
> it feels a bit sad to see this super super fun topic turn into some kind of grudge. If pcwalton has thoughts on ZGC I would be keen to hear them. Absolutely agree. To add a little more context, the frustrations were that his comments were repetitive and the threads didn't go anywhere and generally distracted from more productive conversations. Minor nuissance, and it's been a while since he's posted more of those comments (at least I haven't seen them in a while), so we should get off his back (not all of my comments have been solid gold either). He's a knowledgable person and has a lot to offer me and this community generally. Hopefully we can all move past this and be a little more gracious and tactful with each other, because you're right--this is a really interesting, fun topic.