7 ms·

I've had a lot of conversations with drivers that make me cringe. I've had a few tell me about how they've been away from home driving for 24-48 hours, sleeping

by creato 8y ago

I've had a lot of conversations with drivers that make me cringe. I've had a few tell me about how they've been away from home driving for 24-48 hours, sleeping in the car for a few hours at a time here and there. This article doesn't seem to mention this as a factor but I wouldn't be surprised if Uber/Lyft driver fatigue explains part of this study's findings. My understanding is that the taxi medallion system originally came to be because there was too much competition in the taxi business, leading to corners being cut (e.g. maintenance) and overcrowding by taxis in certain places. Maybe we're learning this lesson again? This level of competition has brought a lot of convenience and comfort improvements over taxis. But from a big picture point of view, I'm not sure that this level of competition is a good thing. I almost wish Uber/Lyft were more expensive (and that money went to drivers). I'd use them less, but I'd be happier about using it when I did.

aeternus 8y ago
The rating system seems like a much better answer than the Medallion system. Every passenger (should be) effectively voting on the safety of the driver. No turn signals or engine light on? Subtract a few stars. If they violate a traffic law, 1 star and report for safety violation.
maccam94 8y ago
My impression is that the maintenance burden gets pushed onto drivers and they may not fully understand how to factor that cost into their income. However, there are new incentives to keep the cars well maintained, such as the ability of riders to rate the experience and leave comments, as well as the fact that these cars are also the driver's personal transportation. The dynamic pricing and monitoring of supply and demand help avoid overcompetition, but that assumes that drivers really won't drive if they are losing money. I wonder if there's app functionality for the driver to plug in their fuel economy/depreciation to show what their actual profit is...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
majos 8y ago
> almost wish Uber/Lyft were more expensive (and that money went to drivers). I'd use them less, but I'd be happier about using it when I did. You can do this already using the tips on both platforms, which go entirely to the driver. Unless your wish is that it were more expensive on a macro level.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jfk13 8y ago
  I think the point is that if they were more expensive (and that money went to drivers), then users might think twice about summoning a car when they don't really need one, and give more consideration to more traffic- and environmentally-friendly alternatives. There's also the possibility that drivers might be able to make a reasonable living without feeling pushed to cut corners in maintenance, rest, etc. Just giving tips to drivers can help out the individual drivers who benefit from them, but it doesn't shift the balance for the ecosystem as a whole.
- dorfsmay 8y ago
  Tips are an after the fact, unilateral, non negotiated contract. The only function they provide is a power trip. They should be discouraged. Industry where it has been traditional to tips take the freedom to cut nominal pay, and let customers on a power trip decide for the worker salary. They should not exist in the 21st century.
  - codyb 8y ago
    Maybe that's so, and I support a worker's right to earn a living wage as much as the next guy, but getting back to the states after being in Europe for three months I'm seriously impressed by how much more attentative to my needs servers are here. And you know what? It's really nice. The only difference seems to be the tipping culture.
    - Kye 8y ago
      Consider another possibility: people in the US are more afraid of losing their jobs than people in Europe. People on the other side of the order are often one missed or shorted paycheck away from a cascade of late fees, reactivation fees, and overdraft fees with no way out. Even filing for bankruptcy costs time, energy, and money. I doubt people in places with functional social safety nets worry about what will happen if they have one bad day where they can't fake a chipper attitude.
nradov 8y ago
Yes I'm pretty sure corners are being cut on maintenance. Many of Lyft cars I've ridden in lately were displaying a warning on the dashboard about an overdue service interval or some sort of failure (check engine, ABS, TPMS, etc). Of course that's just my personal observation but I've ridden in enough to be confident that it's a real issue.
- dnautics 8y ago
  as a former lyft driver my advice is: why don't you three star and leave a message to the driver ("hey, your TPMS is on")
dorfsmay 8y ago
IMO society can solve cutting corners by bringing regulations and more competition, not less (more competition means service becomes a criteria when choosing). In fact, I'd want those regulations regardless of uber/lyft/taxis. If individuals can lower road safety by cutting corners, that should be regulated, including lack of sleep.
- pdx 8y ago
  Regulation often leads to regulatory walls around businesses, protecting them from competing with innovative new solutions, leading to lower quality of life for all. How does your worldview discount for this?
  - dorfsmay 8y ago
    In my experience "regulatory wall" is created by not refreshing regulations often enough, and by corruption and lobbying creating regulation with the sole purpose of limiting competition, instead of protecting the consumer. We need to lower the bar to get rid of bad regulation (making a vote issue?). We should work towards minimizing the abuse of regulations (we will never be able to eliminate it) rather than be afraid of adding more regulations.
remote_phone 8y ago
Uber limits the number of hours a driver can drive per day.
- jakelazaroff 8y ago
  In my experience, almost every driver drives for multiple services.
  - DoctorOetker 8y ago
    coud a partial solution involve regulating the lift services such that they report (real time?) the number of minutes a driver has driven to some agency, and are required to check if the driver has sufficient undriven time left to perform a ride?
    - jakelazaroff 8y ago
      Seems like we could just solve the real problem by regulating ride sharing services such that they pay their drivers enough that they don't need to work dangerously long shifts in the first place.
      - dnautics 8y ago
        how do you then regulate the drivers so that the drivers don't all go hang out some place where it's inconvenient to take rides and nobody gets rides and the drivers suck up a free salary? NB: I did this to great effect when uber offered me a signing bonus.

by creato 8y ago

aeternus 8y ago

The rating system seems like a much better answer than the Medallion system. Every passenger (should be) effectively voting on the safety of the driver. No turn signals or engine light on? Subtract a few stars. If they violate a traffic law, 1 star and report for safety violation.

maccam94 8y ago

My impression is that the maintenance burden gets pushed onto drivers and they may not fully understand how to factor that cost into their income. However, there are new incentives to keep the cars well maintained, such as the ability of riders to rate the experience and leave comments, as well as the fact that these cars are also the driver's personal transportation. The dynamic pricing and monitoring of supply and demand help avoid overcompetition, but that assumes that drivers really won't drive if they are losing money. I wonder if there's app functionality for the driver to plug in their fuel economy/depreciation to show what their actual profit is...

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

majos 8y ago

> almost wish Uber/Lyft were more expensive (and that money went to drivers). I'd use them less, but I'd be happier about using it when I did. You can do this already using the tips on both platforms, which go entirely to the driver. Unless your wish is that it were more expensive on a macro level.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jfk13 8y ago
I think the point is that if they were more expensive (and that money went to drivers), then users might think twice about summoning a car when they don't really need one, and give more consideration to more traffic- and environmentally-friendly alternatives. There's also the possibility that drivers might be able to make a reasonable living without feeling pushed to cut corners in maintenance, rest, etc. Just giving tips to drivers can help out the individual drivers who benefit from them, but it doesn't shift the balance for the ecosystem as a whole.
dorfsmay 8y ago
Tips are an after the fact, unilateral, non negotiated contract. The only function they provide is a power trip. They should be discouraged. Industry where it has been traditional to tips take the freedom to cut nominal pay, and let customers on a power trip decide for the worker salary. They should not exist in the 21st century.
- codyb 8y ago
  Maybe that's so, and I support a worker's right to earn a living wage as much as the next guy, but getting back to the states after being in Europe for three months I'm seriously impressed by how much more attentative to my needs servers are here. And you know what? It's really nice. The only difference seems to be the tipping culture.
  - Kye 8y ago
    Consider another possibility: people in the US are more afraid of losing their jobs than people in Europe. People on the other side of the order are often one missed or shorted paycheck away from a cascade of late fees, reactivation fees, and overdraft fees with no way out. Even filing for bankruptcy costs time, energy, and money. I doubt people in places with functional social safety nets worry about what will happen if they have one bad day where they can't fake a chipper attitude.

nradov 8y ago

Yes I'm pretty sure corners are being cut on maintenance. Many of Lyft cars I've ridden in lately were displaying a warning on the dashboard about an overdue service interval or some sort of failure (check engine, ABS, TPMS, etc). Of course that's just my personal observation but I've ridden in enough to be confident that it's a real issue.

dnautics 8y ago
as a former lyft driver my advice is: why don't you three star and leave a message to the driver ("hey, your TPMS is on")

dorfsmay 8y ago

IMO society can solve cutting corners by bringing regulations and more competition, not less (more competition means service becomes a criteria when choosing). In fact, I'd want those regulations regardless of uber/lyft/taxis. If individuals can lower road safety by cutting corners, that should be regulated, including lack of sleep.

pdx 8y ago
Regulation often leads to regulatory walls around businesses, protecting them from competing with innovative new solutions, leading to lower quality of life for all. How does your worldview discount for this?
- dorfsmay 8y ago
  In my experience "regulatory wall" is created by not refreshing regulations often enough, and by corruption and lobbying creating regulation with the sole purpose of limiting competition, instead of protecting the consumer. We need to lower the bar to get rid of bad regulation (making a vote issue?). We should work towards minimizing the abuse of regulations (we will never be able to eliminate it) rather than be afraid of adding more regulations.

remote_phone 8y ago

Uber limits the number of hours a driver can drive per day.

jakelazaroff 8y ago
In my experience, almost every driver drives for multiple services.
- DoctorOetker 8y ago
  coud a partial solution involve regulating the lift services such that they report (real time?) the number of minutes a driver has driven to some agency, and are required to check if the driver has sufficient undriven time left to perform a ride?
  - jakelazaroff 8y ago
    Seems like we could just solve the real problem by regulating ride sharing services such that they pay their drivers enough that they don't need to work dangerously long shifts in the first place.
    - dnautics 8y ago
      how do you then regulate the drivers so that the drivers don't all go hang out some place where it's inconvenient to take rides and nobody gets rides and the drivers suck up a free salary? NB: I did this to great effect when uber offered me a signing bonus.