13 ms·

For back pain, the subtle moves of the Feldenkrais Method can help some people

347 points by rutenspitz 8y ago

gymshoes 8y ago
I used to have a back pain and what fixed it for me was regular exercise. I think a common cause of back pain is sitting long hours in chairs because of work. Any type of exercise should benefit here.
httpsterio 8y ago
I'm open to recommendations if anyone could offer their expertise. Three doctors have examined me and concluded that my feet are different lengths which cause my back pain, but I can't afford any customized insoles at the moment. In my lower back, right on the right of my spine I get occasional stabby pain which prevents a lot of movement. It usually stays away for over half a year and then it acts up for a few weeks but now it's been worse. When I get the initial stab it means that for the next few days it can come at the smallest motion that my back doesn't agree with and then after a few days everything seems fine. Except for the last two months my left back of my thigh is also "stuck". The muscles seem to be fine, it feels more like a pinched nerve. Going to a professional masseuse doesn't help because they can't hit the spots that hurt, it feels more like its in my nerves. My left thigh hurts even when I'm coughing. The doctors I've seen say that I don't have a slipped disc by visual examination but I haven't been scanned. What could and should I do?
- blanche_ 8y ago
  Have you tried going to physical therapist? Mine has a theory that in most cases longer legs is just wrong adjustment of pelvis.
carvink 8y ago
A truism I've seen - the best predictor of back pain is having had back pain. After an initial injury about 20 years ago, Alexander technique made it worse, but only because an incompetent instructor shoved my back when I was not expecting it. Feldenkrais helped with recovery a lot after that. A few years later, floor pilates helped as well. Now, it's been Stuart McGill's 'Back Mechanic' book, which helps one do some self diagnosis, and select a set of corrective exercises for your individual set of symptoms. McGill may not be the final word on the topic, but he is a good one, with a deep background studying spine biomechanics.. As whiddershins wrote: "..no one thing seems to work for everybody. And the level of talent and expertise of the instructor/healer is usually more important than the label someone gives to their modality."
neonate 8y ago
http://archive.is/W42o2 http://archive.is/W42o2
- kensai 8y ago
  Thank you good sir.
arkitaip 8y ago
For those who occasionally get a stiff neck, I can recommend these exercises by the McKenzie Institute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh0cXoQJADc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh0cXoQJADc
colordrops 8y ago
Is this just thinly veiled mindfulness meditation?
- ndodneocnrnd 8y ago
  That's a kind way to put it.
- myth_drannon 8y ago
  Not at all. This is more like judo combined with yoga. Meditation is about youe mind, feldenkrais is more about movement and muscles.
  - colordrops 8y ago
    Yoga and judo are also about your mind and mindfulness meditation is also about your body.
    - rutenspitz 8y ago
      That's very true, and there are similarities in the awareness that they develop, but it isn't very meaningful to call e.g. judo 'thinly veiled mindfulness meditation' because the practices are so different. It's the same with Feldenkrais, where you're doing a specific repertoire of exercises that aren't much like these other things. The Feldenkrais exercises have almost an algebraic quality (or perhaps I should say combinatorial) in the elaborate way they use symmetry. For example: do something on side A, then do it on side B, then vary it by X on side A, then vary it by Y on side B, then Y on A, then X on B, then do those at the same time, then switch and do X on A and Y on B at the same time. As you go through these permutations you can feel your brain noticing symmetries and contrasts that it wasn't aware of before. Sometimes you become aware that a simple movement is possible which your body had no idea it could do. For example, that you can move your arm behind your shoulder in a way that you would have sworn was impossible, or at least painful, and yet it's totally easy. The method seems to work by rewiring your mental model of your own body, mostly by expanding your awareness of what it can easily do. This is related to pain relief. One of the strangest effects is that it works better the less you do. A common line the trainers use is "however much you're doing, do half as much". This is probably because the method works by getting the brain to notice finer and finer contrasts. But it's surprisingly difficult to do less, because in most aspects of life we're so habituated to thinking more is better.
TaylorAlexander 8y ago
I do wonder if the answer to my back pain is a lifestyle where I am simply moving my body more. As an engineer I mostly “get stuff done” at a desk. Both my work desk and now my home desk are motorized adjustable height desks, but still being so sedentary seems to the root cause of my slowly declining physical shape. My lower back hurts regularly and now my neck has been hurting again. I used to go to a chiropractor and I’m considering starting up again. But the root of it is that I’m not active. I used to ride my bike, run, and lift weights and I weighed 40 pounds less than I do now. But I’ve found some personal projects to work on that I’m so passionate about I’ve wanted to stay inside on evenings and weekends to make progress. Really, I just struggle with a day job that perpetuates our capitalist system, and try to make up for it by doing good open source work when I’m at home. But I wish it was more common to work fewer hours in tech. I’m happy to be paid proportionally but I want a job where it’s okay to work 20 hours a week at a high tech pay rate. I think if I did that, I might get out more. Or maybe I need to find a lower paying job that lets me work on my passions during the day. Then in the evenings I could go play basketball or do night hikes or something. Has anyone pulled either of these off? More specifically has anyone pulled this off in the SF Bay Area?
- rshaban 8y ago
  Yes. Check out sfmovementpractice.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  Consider the possibility that you've engaged in mental gymnastics subconsciously pursuing physical laziness, I catch myself doing this all the time with my computing. The reality is, you require negligible amounts of time to maintain a reasonable level of phsyical fitness. How many pushups can you do in a set? Probably so few that it requires less than one minute of time. So why aren't you doing as many pushups as you possibly can every morning before you shower? Well, simply because you don't want to, and are being lazy. Incorporating a simple stretching and pushup routine to your daily life, once before showering, will have a significant positive impact on your wellness without costing much time. You can add a pull-up bar to a doorway and adopt a policy of always having to do as many pull-ups as you can whenever you walk past it. I'm assuming you can't do more than one right now, so it takes almost zero time.
ndodneocnrnd 8y ago
Nonsense peddled as science; HN (and the Washington Post) should do better.
- dang 8y ago
  Please follow the site guidelines when commenting here. They ask you not to post shallow dismissals. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - MithrilTuxedo 8y ago
    They're right though. Australia covers this method (offering rebates for people using it) but in their reviews of it they didn't see it actually having any effect. http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/content/0E9129B3574FCA53CA257BF0001ACD11/$File/Natural%20Therapies%20Overview%20Report%20Final%20with%20copyright%2011%20March.pdf http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/conten...
    - dang 8y ago
      Meanwhile other studies have shown some effect. That's not something HN is going to decide. The last thing we need here is people reflexively stomping on the heterodox with one-liners. It has a shallow, nasty effect on conversation, and HN threads are for good conversation.
    - antidesitter 8y ago
      > They're right though. And yet you wouldn't know it from their comment.
    - collyw 8y ago
      Not Feldelnkrais but The Alexander technique which apparently inspired Moshe Feldenkrais. Its often labelled quackery as well. BMJ did a study and found positive results. https://www.bmj.com/content/337/BMJ.a884 https://www.bmj.com/content/337/BMJ.a884
usaphp 8y ago
I am working on a standing desk and am playing soccer 3 times a week, but still had back pain. Then I started doing light weight deadlifts , 3 times a week with back extension on a back extension bench and miraculously my back pain started to fade away within the next 2-3 weeks. I beleive it’s just our weekend lower back muscles that get weekend with age and lesser activity, and they can’t hold the spine anymore correctly.
- vibrato 8y ago
  More so weak glutes and tight hip flexors usually. Those exercises hit the glutes super hard if you do them while maintaining a neutral spine. However it wasn’t enough for me, my glute medius was weak and so I needed to add in yoga moves and side planks. Ddpy is the best for back pain!
  - usaphp 8y ago
    How is yoga going to strengthen the muscles? I thought it’s for relaxation, no? Unless you are talking about some non traditional yoga. Also I do play soccer 3 times a week for my whole life and am a pretty fast runner so I don’t think my gluteus or hip flexors are weak.
    - jbverschoor 8y ago
      lol.. until you actually try. Just like the foam rollers. Everything seems so relaxing... :X
    - Tomte 8y ago
      I've started doing Iyengar Yoga a few weeks ago (but the specific school doesn't seem to matter in that regard), and believe me, it's the hardest workout I've ever done (to my shame). I'm certain I'm building muscles there. The focus seems to be stretching of hardly-ever-stretched muscles, but there are all kinds of postures that are basically body-weight exercises.
    - mtalantikite 8y ago
      Yoga asana incorporates a lot of body weight exercise, so yes you’ll gain a lot of strength in a practice like Ashtanga or Iyengar. A lot of asanas that don’t look complicated require very subtle muscle development, but you certainly can’t do Astavakrasana or press up into Pincha Mayurasana without tons of strength. For lower back I’ve found practicing Salabhasana, Dhanurasana, or Urdva Dhanurasana have helped.
newnewpdro 8y ago
In my teens I accidentally discovered a preference for sleeping on the floor, having carpet as a ground barrier, and blankets or a sleeping bag for warmth, pillow for my head. At the time I just wanted more space for computers in my small bedroom, so I got rid of my bed. When I moved into a larger space, the default was to get a normal western style bed. I did this but my back and neck would randomly hurt like never before. It appeared to clearly be correlated with the switch to sleeping on a deformable surface. So I got rid of the mattress and resumed sleeping on the floor. Now, ~20 years later, I still sleep on the floor and never have neck/back pain. Except for when I stay in hotels, where floors are exceptionally dirty, in those situations I often wake up with a stiff neck and/or back after sleeping on the bed. It's worth noting that other cultures don't use the squishy mattresses either, I'm not off the map breaking new ground here. If you suffer from back problems, I think it's reasonable to try adapting to sleeping on the floor. If it's too low-brow for you, you can spend money on japanese-style tatami mats - you can even get stylish bed frames for them.
- dangban 8y ago
  Got any thoughts on the use of pillows? A pain in the small of my back went away after I started sleeping on a hard floor with a thin mattress-pad underneath. The discomfort was brutal the first week though. I still love using my big squishy pillow tho, because I like sleeping on my side. I know that sleeping without a pillow has to be good for me... 2 million years of homo-noid evolution without pillows is all the facts I need. However, the most I'm able to go without a pillow is 2 nights. I have such terrible sleep, that I give in and use a pillow the 3rd night. Without a pillow I find I can't sleep on my side (which I love doing), and if I'm sleeping on my stomach then there's too much pressure on whichever face-cheek faces down, causing mild bruising. I'd love to learn to stop using pillows though.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    Not really, I use them mostly to support my head in side sleeping. Occasionally I'll use a folded arm instead, but that's uncommon. Congrats on getting past the acclimation period, it seems obviously better for your back. How has it affected your personal life? The last woman I dated was deeply offended by my disinterest in sharing her bed and insistence on sleeping on the floor after our first few overnights. This aspect of the practice seems the most problematic, it's had me consider moving to Japan.
afdaf44 8y ago
I don't know about this method, but for me Dr. Sarno's method worked. I was in so much pain that I could barely put my socks on without help. Then I read "Healing back pain" and it convinced me that my pain was psychosomatic. Once convinced, the pain disappeared in a day and never came back. Dr. Sarno's theory is that the mind can use pain as a way to shift attention away from psychological problems. The subconscious does that by reducing blood flow in the target tissue, which causes pain. Now I don't understand how accepting this as the cause of the pain can make it stop, but that's what happened to me and reportedly for many of Dr. Sarno's patients. About Dr. Sarno: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_E._Sarno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_E._Sarno
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- howard941 8y ago
  What in interesting man and concept, if not a bit (I hesitate to use the term, it's not intended as a pejorative) reminiscent of the placebo effect.
  - switchbak 8y ago
    Which is interesting in itself - if we could figure out more about this effect, perhaps we could harness it better. I've also read this book, and while I didn't have the immediate benefits of the parent commenter, it did help me to take ownership of my situation, and to work through the pain. For me the key was activity and building up the endurance/tone of the lower lumbar. This hurt a lot in my existing state, but once I cut the vicious cycle of inactivity leading to reduced muscle tone causing more pain, I was able to turn it around and reduce my pain and dysfunction almost entirely.
  - Singletoned 8y ago
    Sarno's Theory could actually be a plausible explanation for the placebo effect. If some percentage of people suffering a condition have psychosomatic symptoms, when you give them a pill and tell them it will cure them, their brain could switch to creating a different psychosomatic effect (such as headaches instead of backache). This would give the effect of a placebo cure, and side-effects for the placebo cure (which is also something that is observed).
myth_drannon 8y ago
This really works. I had lower back pains from working on laptop with head looking down. Took two days workshop and on the second day all the pain was gone. Now every time I feel minor back pain, ten minutes of certain pelvis exercises and all is gone. Feldenkrais method birthed many more modern, specialized methods for example Anat Baniel for kids with mobility issues. I was really thinking its crackpot stuff until I tried it.
tomcam 8y ago
I cured 30+ years of back pain caused by walking recently by... standing up straight when I walk. Not trying to be funny here. Sitting has never caused problems because since the early 80s I developed perfect desk posture to avoid back pain. However, I never noticed until recently that I stooped over a little when I walked, which I do for at least an hour a day. Straightened up and boom, no more pain after walking.
mythrwy 8y ago
IDK about back pain, but eye exercises are a must for me much as I stare at screens. I saw a series of videos years ago (which I can't find online and don't recall the name of) where author claimed focusing on fixed distance close objects so much is messing up our vision. The exercises included a few things, "palming" and some other stuff (which I tried once or twice and never stuck with) but one in exercise in particular I do it frequently, at least several times a week, especially after a hard session in front of the screen. The gist of the exercise is (and again, can't find video) is to go somewhere where you can see very far with an open horizon (the ocean, on building roof, something like this, the best thing you can find but less than ideal works as well). You then relax your eyes and sort of gaze off into the distance with hands lifted up next to ears, maybe 6 or 8 inches off each ear. Then you kind of flick your fingers around where you can barely catch a glimpse of the movement out of the corner of each eye while continuing a relaxed gaze out in the distance. Do that for a couple of minutes, rest and repeat several times. It really works for me and immediately when done the ability to perceive depth seems much enhanced and I can "see" better, or that's how it feels. I didn't do any quantitative trials, nor do I know of any, there might be some. But FWIW.
- dangban 8y ago
  Recommended: Chrome extension called "eyeCare" that one can set up to periodically remind one to do eye exercises.
seaghost 8y ago
After many years I've realized that the cause of my back pain was the stress. Get rid of the stress and the back pain will disappear.
- Mahn 8y ago
  I've noticed this as well. It seems that when you are under stress several muscles in your body tense involuntarily, particularly in your back and your neck. It's very subtle, you don't really realize that your muscles are tense, your body simply gets used to it. Over time all that tightness and pressure causes pain, but because you don't consciously feel your muscles tense it feels like it's coming out of nowhere. It's like having a broken arm, but on the outside the arm is perfectly functional, all you know is that your arm has inexplicable pain from time to time. Long term stress causes all sorts of fun on your body (and your mind for that matter). I don't recommend it.
crazygringo 8y ago
As someone who long suffered from back pain, I studied all the relevant techniques -- Alexander, Feldenkrais, Structural Integration, and more. And they work in pieces, but they're different and confusing and each seem to claim to be able to solve more than any of them can individually. But for anyone reading this comment, there are two things I want to share, from hard-won experience: 1) Back pain and posture are incredibly complex and counter-intuitive, and come from a complex interplay of biomechanics, perception, and emotion. Anyone who says "just sit up straighter" or "just strengthen your core" or "use a standing desk" or "stretch more" or "it's a muscle imbalance, go to the gym" or "do yoga" doesn't know anything. Even if you think one of these helped you, it depends on the individual and they can do even more harm than good depending on the person. I think there's even more popular quackery in posture and back pain than there is in nutrition, and that's saying a lot. Even most doctors don't have the slightest clue -- which should be self-evident, given how many people have back pain and how it's not getting fixed. 2) The best place to start is "The New Rules of Posture: How to Sit, Stand, and Move in the Modern World" by Mary Bond. [1] It's the only book I've come across that takes the right holistic approach, but still maintains respect for "hard" science, explains the theory (medically, not according to any "school") but also gives you guided exercises. Start there, and then once you've gained a decent understanding of your body, you'll be in a place where you can figure out what more specific techniques you need, if you do (e.g. whether Alexander technique or psychotherapy). [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594771243 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594771243
- _brvd 8y ago
  Look into Ankylosing Spondolytis. I have it, after ten years unexplained back pain. Having back pain that won't go away isn't normal.
- paulcole 8y ago
  If everything depends on the individual, what’s the point of respecting hard science?
  - adrianN 8y ago
    What cancer treatment works also depends largely on the individual, but you shouldn't listen to quacks for your treatment either.
ambrop7 8y ago
PSA: If you have back pain and also (what could be) bone pain in other places like legs, pelvis and chest, you might have a disease called hyperparathyroidism. Especially if you also have symptoms of hypercalcemia like fatigue, headaches, GERD and palpitations. I was recently diagnosed after more than a year of suffering and am getting surgery in 3 days, and complete resolution of all issues is expected. Much info is available on https://www.parathyroid.com/ https://www.parathyroid.com/
carapace 8y ago
I used to go to a Feldenkrais practitioner (since retired, alas) who was extraordinary. At one point during the session, when one side of my body had been "worked over" but not the other side, the relaxed leg would be actually be an inch longer than the as-yet-untreated leg. If you're interested, find and read Feldenkrais' books. One of the fascinating discoveries he made was that our internal proprioceptive perceptions are often muted and/or distorted, and that this is a pathological condition, in the sense that improving the fidelity of our proprioceptive perception improves physical, mental and emotional health. The man himself led an interesting life. He was an engineer and physicist and one of the first westerners to earn a black belt in Judo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosh%C3%A9_Feldenkrais https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosh%C3%A9_Feldenkrais
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  >the relaxed leg would be actually be an inch longer than the as-yet-untreated leg // You probably know the "move one arm around in a circle and it looks an inch shorter". This has been used by scammers to demonstrate their ability as physicians, "see I can manipulate your body so effectively your limbs are different lengths" ...
  - carapace 8y ago
    I often hesitate to share anecdotes like the above because there's typically someone who will use it to impugn my faculties of observation and thought. I'm not a rube, thanks. Now, you may have heard of "evidence-based" medicine? Or the joke, "If alternative medicine works it's just called medicine."? The length difference I experienced was one aspect of a whole-body pervasive change that also affected and improved my mental and emotional functioning as well as relieving specific physical symptoms. If the effect is real and lasting, which it was and is, then in what possible sense can the practitioner be called a "scammer"? After all, I got the goods. As I mentioned, this system grew from the mind of a guy who was a physicist and Judo black belt. Those are two categories of people who have nothing to prove, eh? Physicists and Judo black belts do not need "hocus pocus" to impress people, eh? The method has a solid foundation and definite repeatable results. You'd be wise not to sniff at it.
beloch 8y ago
Back pain can be caused by so many things that what works for one person will likely not work for another. However, here is something that helped end my back problems which were of a type that may be fairly common in North America: When bending over, whether it's to pick something up from the ground or to wash your hands in the sink, bend from the hips while keeping your back arched. Do not roll your spine forwards. If you lack the flexibility to reach your aim, make up the difference by bending your knees. Your flexibility should improve with time. It was through hacker news that I found an article similar to the following: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/02/26/587735283/lost-art-of-bending-over-how-other-cultures-spare-their-spines https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/02/26/5877352... Scrupulously correct form when rowing and weight lifting plus special stretching exercises devised by a chiropractor did not help me. Changing how I bend when shaving or picking things up from the ground did. If you have back problems, pay attention to how you bend.
motohagiography 8y ago
Owned a cane for dibilitating flareups of sciatica at age of 30. Then lost 30lbs, rode horses on weekends, and learned to lift weights. Can still feel the weakness on that side from years of atrophy, and still use a knee pillow to offset night spasms, but walking straight for 6+ years now. Some people need surgery, but of the things to try before that, that's what has worked for me.
andrewl 8y ago
I read an article about the Feldenkrais Method in Smithsonian magazine decades ago. I can't find it on the magazine's site, but the Feldenkrais Institute has a PDF reprint: http://feldenkraisinstitute.com/images/uploads/Smithsonian_FINY.pdf http://feldenkraisinstitute.com/images/uploads/Smithsonian_F...
bitexploder 8y ago
Dr. Sarno has an interesting theory on chronic back pain. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/2017/10/2/16338094/dr-john-sarno-healing-back-pain https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/scienc... Some people call it quackery. I dismissed it when I heard about it. Some people swear by it and the connection to psychology and mental health should not be dismissed. Correlation, causation, mentally healthier people are probably more active... etc etc. still. A novel addition to your list of “add this to the mix” when troubleshooting.
- aaronbrethorst 8y ago
  I bought my then-girlfriend/now-wife a copy of Sarno's Mindbody Prescription a few years ago on the recommendation of someone on HN to help her with chronic back pain. It did her a world of good. Didn't fix everything, but definitely helped out quite a bit. https://www.amazon.com/Mindbody-Prescription-Healing-Body-Pain/dp/0446675156 https://www.amazon.com/Mindbody-Prescription-Healing-Body-Pa...
- trafnar 8y ago
  I'm very skeptical of these kinds of things, but when someone with a similar mindset to me recommended it, I checked it out with an open mind. Back pain I had been having for several months went away right after reading it.
  - bitexploder 8y ago
    Same. I have never experienced this pain, but I helped my mother manage it. Years of surgeries, shots, and other failed efforts. She gave this book a shot and it has been nothing short of amazing. I think it works in many of these cases where there isn’t a good medical explanation. I still kind of don’t believe it, but.... she swears by it and we completely exhausted many other avenues.
- Tharkun 8y ago
  I read his book, and it's definitely quackery to me. If I remember correctly, he basically says back pain (and other kinds of chronic pain?) can be cured by forgiveness. Forgive your parents for abusing you as a kid. Forgive your robber for invading your home. And hey presto, no more pain.
mbfg 8y ago
At least it seems this is unlikely to hurt people more.
twblalock 8y ago
The worst part of having back pain is all of the suggestions from other people about how to solve back pain.
aasasd 8y ago
I don't know about “eye movements playing a vital role in coordinating the body’s musculature,” but otherwise: - The first class is reminiscent of guided meditation where one technique (afaik) is that your brain focuses on the extraneous input while the body relaxes, thus breaking the feedback loop of unconscious stress to muscle tenseness. This sort of meditation works wonders for muscle relaxation, you can't achieve that degree just by deciding to relax or with stretches. - I'd guess that the movements of each joint and muscle, among other things, improve blood flow and relieve tenseness, which makes them perform better afterwards. The focus on knowing the workings of your muscles is a big part of meditation for me—I've learned that normally I have a lot of tenseness that I can't shed by volition, and learned to look for this tenseness when my posture is bad. This sounds rather similar to what is said about the subject method in other comments. However, I'm not sure if this translates to muscle memory: I doubt that a bunch of sessions and occasional conscious alterations to the posture are enough to train the muscles to work a certain way. The article doesn't go into long-term effects, and notably in the last example the author didn't apply the lessons on her own for some reason, without getting back in the class (though it might've just been too early to develop the self-control).
toasterlovin 8y ago
Here’s a hypothesis everyone with chronic back pain should consider: because you sit at a desk all day and never lift heavy stuff, the natural process of atrophy has made your back too weak to support normal, day to day activity, causing your back to be sore all the time. If you want to test this hypothesis, all it takes is about 3 weeks of deadlifting 3x per week (takes about 20 minutes per workout, so an hour total per week). Could be the best 3 hours you ever invest in anything your whole life.
- KennyCason 8y ago
  I was about to mention this as well. In the list of things the author tried, they didn’t mention strength training. Since I started deadlifts, rack lifts, and more strength training in general I have had no back problems. Granted I’m sure this isn’t the solution for everyone of course, but with more desk zombies, I’m sure it’s more relevant than ever.
  - subpixel 8y ago
    Just a reminder that any barbell lifts involving real weight can be as harmful as helpful if you are not properly trained or (like me) not smart about respecting your body’s limits. Deadlifts especially.
    - KennyCason 8y ago
      Most definitely. Must respect the weight. Ironically, I originally injured my back when lifting weights. In my case I was just being sloppy and beer may have been involved. :) This has been a hard lesson.
- sizzle 8y ago
  I can confirm this works for me, starting strength had changed my life in this regard. The mobile app has a phenomenal UX too for tracking progress with lifts, highly recommend it to anyone able bodied and looking to get into bar exercises for health reasons.
- minothgd 8y ago
tacon 8y ago
For a terrific overview of the back pain industry and the scams that many places try to pull, I recommend the new book "Crooked: Outwitting the Back Pain Industry and Getting on the Road to Recovery"[0]. The author gave a great interview on this podcast episode[1]. She goes into the Sarno principles, among other topics. Strength training for the back is often a great help, but rarely prescribed by doctors. Most people have never heard of the multifidus muscles, much less seen the specialized machines for strengthening these muscles so critical to spinal stability[2]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Crooked-Outwitting-Industry-Getting-Recovery/dp/0062641794/ https://www.amazon.com/Crooked-Outwitting-Industry-Getting-R... [1] https://informfitness.com/podcast/50-outwitting-back-pain-cathryn-jakobson-ramin/ https://informfitness.com/podcast/50-outwitting-back-pain-ca... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-FyeG7pqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-FyeG7pqY
jadoint 8y ago
To start with, this won't work for everyone mostly because not everyone works from home like I do. I used to have this constant, nagging lower back pain when I used to sit at a desk working an office job. It wasn't the sort of back pain where you've pulled a muscle after a botched deadlift or you just twisted the wrong way picking up a sock off the floor, but it was the sort of pain where it just felt like there was a warm knot in your lower back that was not-quite-painful but incredibly uncomfortable. Hard to explain. It was hard to sit still and I had to change sitting positions after every 5-10 minutes which made it difficult to actually focus on work. I strengthened my core and tried various stretches but it never went away. This went on for years until I started working from home. I figured, instead of trying to find the perfect way to sit, why sit at all? Maybe humans weren't built to sit for long periods of time but I sure don't have problems lying down! I got myself a laptop stand, started working while lying down, and I've never had lower back issues since. I wouldn't mind having JP's set up in Grandma's Boy either actually (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLR3faI7lU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLR3faI7lU). Monitors at eye level to eliminate neck strain, seat all the way reclined to relieve lower back pressure, and keyboard at just the right height. Perfect.
mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
I had back pain and started working out - mostly doing insanity from beach body and back pain went away. I would attribute it to core strengthening. I would not recommend insanity to people now though- the exercise program is far too high impact and totally overkill. These days I do push ups, planks, stretches, weighted sit ups and don’t seem to have any pain.
schuke 8y ago
Here’s my anecdotal evidence. I had a very bad neck pain for the last few years, sometimes it can be very acute with no obvious trigger. I almost wouldn’t be able to move my neck at all. I tried to cut my laptop and phone use, but to very little avail. Untill one day I accidently found it’s acutally more like my trapezius than my neck, then I realized it was from weight training—the activity that was supposed to improve my posture and muscles. Then I finally zoomed in onto one exercise: the squat. Holding the bar required squeezing my shoulder blades and, your guessed, trapezius. The squeeze was so slight I never felt any immediate discomfort. But from a post hoc perspective the acute neck pain usually occured a few days after the workout. The causal link is very hard to notice. But once I stopped doing squats, the neck pain almost never occurred again. And you’d think if it’s the trapezius then exercises that utilize the same muscle would cause the same symptom? Yet the answet is no.
- mr_overalls 8y ago
  How do you position your neck during the squat? I.e. do you try to look at the ceiling, or do you gaze at the floor? I ask because my football coach gave me the "look at the ceiling" advice back in the 80's - which was a standard movement cue back then, designed to help maintain lumber extension - and so I suffered neck pain after squatting for years. The more modern advice to maintain a neutral spine and let one's gaze rest somewhere below horizontal has made squatting a pain-free experience for me. http://www.fitnessandpower.com/training/bodybuilding-misc/squat-head-position http://www.fitnessandpower.com/training/bodybuilding-misc/sq...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jamesb93 8y ago
  Sounds like you had a tightness you weren't managing or your form was incorrect. I'd hedge your elbow position was off or your hands were too close.
  - tejohnso 8y ago
    That, or bar placement too high on the neck, or involuntary neck straining (chin goes up, back of neck goes forward), or maybe just too much weight. It's a compound exercise where a lot can go wrong.
sunstone 8y ago
Ok I've read through all the posts as of (about) the time of this post. I've had a lot of non-professional experience with personal back pain and with fixing the back pain of others. This is what I've found but your mileage will almost certainly vary because back problems are usually very particular. That said this might help suffers with a similar cause. In my experience there are two kinds of back problems. These are a) chronic, very bad problems and b) run of the mill everyone's everyday back and neck problems. I've had both and I've treated a lot of the latter. * Do not follow any of the techniques discussed in this post without first consulting a qualified professional. * These are two very different situations. Let's start with the every day stuff because that's by far what most people experience. This involves a lot of neck and arm pain (and lower arm repetitive strain injury) caused (mostly) by computer mousing. It also includes the cliched lower back pain that lasts for a few days and then generally "goes away". These kinds of pains can almost always be fixed within 5 to 10 minutes (yes I know this sounds insane if you've had it for a few years or more) with the right kind of massage (not too hard but not too light) in the right places. For neck pain the massage points are almost always vertically on the shoulders about half way between the neck and the shoulder and horizontally between the spine the shoulder blade about 2/3rds of the way down shoulder blade. DO NOT MASSAGE THE NECK AT ALL. Even though that's where the pain seems to be. It's a referred pain. For shoulder/arm pain the massage points almost always start in shoulder blade (a few different usual suspects) and then follow that down to just below the elbow and then, if it's really bad -- just above the wrist or in the hand itself). Garden variety lower back pain can very often be alleviated with massage points on the pelvic girdle. These are tricky to find but very effective. Five minutes of the right pressure in the right place can make almost all the pain "go away". So can you go to a massage therapist and get these effective treatments? My sense of it is, very rarely. Usually their touch is too light to elicit the full therapeutic response. Yes you'll feel a bit better but it won't feel fully recovered in a handful of sessions. You'll have to shop around the get the real deal. My guess is that most therapists are unwilling to cause the required amount of pain in their massage technique, though that is just speculation on my part. So, moving on to the second category, real bad chronic damage. In my personal experience it's likely that discs or cartilage was damaged. Massage will not fix injuries like this. Furthermore that kind of tissue has a poor blood supply so it takes a long time to heal properly. In my case it was three years. And definitely not 5-10 minutes as described above. In this kind of situation, one of the most important things to know is that the further damage you do today will not be felt until tomorrow. So suppose you fall off your bike and cause this kind of serious damage and after 3 months you feel great so you jump on your bike and ride to work. It's all good until the next day when you start to feel spasms return to your back. Why didn't they tell you about this? I don't know but in my case they never did. The only strategy here is to resign yourself to a long recovery, try to keep limber in the unaffected joints and re-engage the damaged area very carefully and slowly. Too slow is not good, too fast is not good. Knowing the difference is almost impossible. If anyone knows a fool proof way to manage this situation, this side of a team of specialists, I'm all ears.
whiddershins 8y ago
I have known many people with back pain, and many people who treat back pain. I have studied many techniques for many years myself. Across all my friends I have seen the results of tai chi (several types), yoga (several types), traditional chinese bone setting, acupuncture, many types of massage, alexander technique, qi gong routines, weigh training, osteopathy, surgery and lots more. I think there's a lot of evidence people should try to avoid surgery. Two people I respect who had tried everything else rave about "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue. The reason for my comment is that in my experience, back pain is treatable much more often than people think. But no one thing seems to work for everybody. And the level of talent and expertise of the instructor/healer is usually more important than the label someone gives to their modality. So if you are in pain, keep investigating! Keep trying different things! And don't fall in to the "x didn't work." fallacy. A different practitioner might do the job even if they say they are doing the same treatment. And if something works, it will work fairly quickly and shouldn't need ongoing expensive treatment by the same person indefinitely. This stuff is usually solvable.
- yeutterg 8y ago
  Backing this up, here's my personal journey: I had back pain for a few years that has been basically gone for six months. A combination of these helped: * daily inversion (Teeter Gravity Boots on a pull-up bar—I actually pull down on the door frame while inverted for extra decompression) * daily yoga (at home, from YouTube videos) * using a standing desk most of the time * Rolfing about once every eight weeks (type of massage focused on aligning fascia. It's pricey and a little pseudoscience-y but actually works really well) * occasional targeted sports massage (if I'm crying, I know it's good) If there's one thing of all those that's made the most difference, it's inversion. I feel so tall now. Seriously, invest in an inversion table or inversion boots if it's safe for you to do this exercise. My posture is still not where I want it to be, but it's much better than it used to be. I still get tight in the neck (likely due to poor sleep posture). I had chronic pain in my left foot (likely plantar fasciitis) that disappears but comes back about once every two weeks. Both have gotten much better with some targeted yoga exercises, but it's a journey. I'm slowly going through the book 8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back by Esther Gokhale (https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulder/dp/0979303605 https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Should...). The author studied posture in industrial vs. non-industrial societies, and she concluded that most pain is not inevitable. We have just forgotten about the importance of posture in industrialized societies. The book gives you eight sessions to practice primal posture for sleeping, standing, and sitting. I'm thinking about investing $400 in the Gokhale Method in-person course. I now prioritize flexibility over strength. 20-40 minutes of yoga per day is a large commitment, but it's worth it. I'm still basically as strong as I was when I did CrossFit, even though my "exercise" is limited to yoga, basic bodyweight exercises like pull-ups and inverted sit-ups, and long, meditative walks. Finally, I make some lifestyle choices around posture. For example, always getting an aisle seat for flights longer than 3 hours, so I can easily get up to stretch and walk around. Choosing a more-supportive chair at a restaurant over a slouchy booth. Not reading in bed often. If you have back pain, maybe something here will be worth trying to you. Keep at it!
Fnoord 8y ago
English Wikipedia contains some warnings (with references) about the Feldenkrais Method [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldenkrais_Method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldenkrais_Method
sgdesign 8y ago
I don't really suffer from back pain myself but in case this helps other, I think the Foundation Training exercises are pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI
FrozenVoid 8y ago
I used rolling my head left-right on a pillow slowly to reduce neck pain. It makes the muscles in the neck work out and relieves pain after awhile. Just staying in same place doesn't fix anything, and sudden motions engage the fast-twitch fibers - while also causing pain. Slower motion doesn't trigger pain.
bno1 8y ago
I'm 23 and I had numerous episodes of back pains lasting from a few days to weeks. I've never went to the doctor or seek professional help yet. Whenever I have a back pain episode my pelvis is tilted, as if my left leg is shorter than my right one. This becomes more acute after weight training at the gym or long sessions of sitting down. I don't know if this is caused by a muscular imbalance or that my body learned to sit in that position because it's less painful. I found out that standing up, walking more and, most importantly, sleeping on my back help quicken the healing. I also avoid weight lifting during the episodes, it only makes the situation worse.
- jjjensen90 8y ago
  You might consider seeing a physical therapist. A lot of people don't know PTs will help with pain and movement issues even if you aren't recovering from an injury etc. They are cheap to see and they can usually help a lot with issues like this. I would be careful with weight training even outside of the episodes because you could be exacerbating the issue (though I am not a DPT).
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jwmoz 8y ago
I've had chronic back pain for the past 3 or so years brought on by years of poor posture at the computer and training thai boxing intensely. Tried various doctors, physios, osteos, acupuncture, tonnes of massage, cupping. Finally saw some progress this year - one osteo noticed my lower back and sacrum was misaligned and adjusted it and magically the chronic pain at the lower region improved and started to shift. I also began Pilates which I believe helps to reduce the pain and improve your posture and strength - massively recommend it. Still get pains and joint issues with the upper area now, and actually semi-sprained my lower last week but have rested and used ice baths which has helped. Advice: try as many pros as possible, they all give you differing advice. A doctor said I had myo-fascia syndrome, after a rushed 5 min consultation - a physio later laughed at this. Do Pilates - it is designed for the spine and back posture, I found it to help and quite enjoyed it and found it relaxing. And movement and exercise is an absolute must - swimming helps. Don't train hard martial arts. I'm struggling to fix my back and progress in BJJ.
- oyebenny 8y ago
  Oss!
eludwig 8y ago
My particular cure (2 herniated discs with associated deep pain/sciatica) was to resume running again after a 40 year stoppage (HS cross country). Worked great. I do about 15-20 miles a week at an average 8:30 mile pace and the back pain is now very manageable. I've been careful not to push too hard, as I do not want to trade one debilitating injury for another (knees, shins, etc). Highly recommended but surely not for everyone, just those so inclined (I have a lot of excess energy to burn!). A nice side effect is that the exertion is also a mood improver! Don't underestimate vigorous activity (with sensible limits).
barronli 8y ago
Lots of good advices on correct exercises, but I want to mention that, correct relaxation is equally important.
wwarner 8y ago
I've done a bit of feldenkrais. It makes you think about being a bit nicer to yourself, a bit more patient. I would think it would be an excellent approach to training for a marathon, or learning math for that matter.
MrStonedOne 8y ago
I had recurring lower back pain with a cause that didn't show up on xrays, with the physiatrists suggesting back and hip exercises in physical therapy. They didn't do too much to help. Shortly after physical therapy ended, I had some infected teeth removed, and a round of antibiotics. The back pain, a minor neck stiffness that they had just attributed to stress, and repeating strain/tension headaches my neurologist was treating with low dosage muscle relaxers all went away in the days following the extraction, never to return. I was on some pain meds for the first few days after the extraction, so i can't know how quickly the symptoms went away, just that they did. I told all of them in follow up appointments, They didn't know why, only offered suggestions about what it could have been, most relating to the neck and nerves and tension that could maybe possibly influence the rest of my spine/hip.
- goda90 8y ago
  Perhaps the infected teeth affected your sleep, making you toss and turn and hurt your back.

347 points by rutenspitz 8y ago

I used to have a back pain and what fixed it for me was regular exercise. I think a common cause of back pain is sitting long hours in chairs because of work. Any type of exercise should benefit here.

httpsterio 8y ago

I'm open to recommendations if anyone could offer their expertise. Three doctors have examined me and concluded that my feet are different lengths which cause my back pain, but I can't afford any customized insoles at the moment. In my lower back, right on the right of my spine I get occasional stabby pain which prevents a lot of movement. It usually stays away for over half a year and then it acts up for a few weeks but now it's been worse. When I get the initial stab it means that for the next few days it can come at the smallest motion that my back doesn't agree with and then after a few days everything seems fine. Except for the last two months my left back of my thigh is also "stuck". The muscles seem to be fine, it feels more like a pinched nerve. Going to a professional masseuse doesn't help because they can't hit the spots that hurt, it feels more like its in my nerves. My left thigh hurts even when I'm coughing. The doctors I've seen say that I don't have a slipped disc by visual examination but I haven't been scanned. What could and should I do?

blanche_ 8y ago
Have you tried going to physical therapist? Mine has a theory that in most cases longer legs is just wrong adjustment of pelvis.

carvink 8y ago

A truism I've seen - the best predictor of back pain is having had back pain. After an initial injury about 20 years ago, Alexander technique made it worse, but only because an incompetent instructor shoved my back when I was not expecting it. Feldenkrais helped with recovery a lot after that. A few years later, floor pilates helped as well. Now, it's been Stuart McGill's 'Back Mechanic' book, which helps one do some self diagnosis, and select a set of corrective exercises for your individual set of symptoms. McGill may not be the final word on the topic, but he is a good one, with a deep background studying spine biomechanics.. As whiddershins wrote: "..no one thing seems to work for everybody. And the level of talent and expertise of the instructor/healer is usually more important than the label someone gives to their modality."

neonate 8y ago

http://archive.is/W42o2 http://archive.is/W42o2

kensai 8y ago
Thank you good sir.

arkitaip 8y ago

For those who occasionally get a stiff neck, I can recommend these exercises by the McKenzie Institute: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh0cXoQJADc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh0cXoQJADc

colordrops 8y ago

Is this just thinly veiled mindfulness meditation?

ndodneocnrnd 8y ago
That's a kind way to put it.
myth_drannon 8y ago
Not at all. This is more like judo combined with yoga. Meditation is about youe mind, feldenkrais is more about movement and muscles.
- colordrops 8y ago
  Yoga and judo are also about your mind and mindfulness meditation is also about your body.
  - rutenspitz 8y ago
    That's very true, and there are similarities in the awareness that they develop, but it isn't very meaningful to call e.g. judo 'thinly veiled mindfulness meditation' because the practices are so different. It's the same with Feldenkrais, where you're doing a specific repertoire of exercises that aren't much like these other things. The Feldenkrais exercises have almost an algebraic quality (or perhaps I should say combinatorial) in the elaborate way they use symmetry. For example: do something on side A, then do it on side B, then vary it by X on side A, then vary it by Y on side B, then Y on A, then X on B, then do those at the same time, then switch and do X on A and Y on B at the same time. As you go through these permutations you can feel your brain noticing symmetries and contrasts that it wasn't aware of before. Sometimes you become aware that a simple movement is possible which your body had no idea it could do. For example, that you can move your arm behind your shoulder in a way that you would have sworn was impossible, or at least painful, and yet it's totally easy. The method seems to work by rewiring your mental model of your own body, mostly by expanding your awareness of what it can easily do. This is related to pain relief. One of the strangest effects is that it works better the less you do. A common line the trainers use is "however much you're doing, do half as much". This is probably because the method works by getting the brain to notice finer and finer contrasts. But it's surprisingly difficult to do less, because in most aspects of life we're so habituated to thinking more is better.

TaylorAlexander 8y ago

I do wonder if the answer to my back pain is a lifestyle where I am simply moving my body more. As an engineer I mostly “get stuff done” at a desk. Both my work desk and now my home desk are motorized adjustable height desks, but still being so sedentary seems to the root cause of my slowly declining physical shape. My lower back hurts regularly and now my neck has been hurting again. I used to go to a chiropractor and I’m considering starting up again. But the root of it is that I’m not active. I used to ride my bike, run, and lift weights and I weighed 40 pounds less than I do now. But I’ve found some personal projects to work on that I’m so passionate about I’ve wanted to stay inside on evenings and weekends to make progress. Really, I just struggle with a day job that perpetuates our capitalist system, and try to make up for it by doing good open source work when I’m at home. But I wish it was more common to work fewer hours in tech. I’m happy to be paid proportionally but I want a job where it’s okay to work 20 hours a week at a high tech pay rate. I think if I did that, I might get out more. Or maybe I need to find a lower paying job that lets me work on my passions during the day. Then in the evenings I could go play basketball or do night hikes or something. Has anyone pulled either of these off? More specifically has anyone pulled this off in the SF Bay Area?

rshaban 8y ago
Yes. Check out sfmovementpractice.
newnewpdro 8y ago
Consider the possibility that you've engaged in mental gymnastics subconsciously pursuing physical laziness, I catch myself doing this all the time with my computing. The reality is, you require negligible amounts of time to maintain a reasonable level of phsyical fitness. How many pushups can you do in a set? Probably so few that it requires less than one minute of time. So why aren't you doing as many pushups as you possibly can every morning before you shower? Well, simply because you don't want to, and are being lazy. Incorporating a simple stretching and pushup routine to your daily life, once before showering, will have a significant positive impact on your wellness without costing much time. You can add a pull-up bar to a doorway and adopt a policy of always having to do as many pull-ups as you can whenever you walk past it. I'm assuming you can't do more than one right now, so it takes almost zero time.

ndodneocnrnd 8y ago

Nonsense peddled as science; HN (and the Washington Post) should do better.

dang 8y ago
Please follow the site guidelines when commenting here. They ask you not to post shallow dismissals. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- MithrilTuxedo 8y ago
  They're right though. Australia covers this method (offering rebates for people using it) but in their reviews of it they didn't see it actually having any effect. http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/content/0E9129B3574FCA53CA257BF0001ACD11/$File/Natural%20Therapies%20Overview%20Report%20Final%20with%20copyright%2011%20March.pdf http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/conten...
  - dang 8y ago
    Meanwhile other studies have shown some effect. That's not something HN is going to decide. The last thing we need here is people reflexively stomping on the heterodox with one-liners. It has a shallow, nasty effect on conversation, and HN threads are for good conversation.
  - antidesitter 8y ago
    > They're right though. And yet you wouldn't know it from their comment.
  - collyw 8y ago
    Not Feldelnkrais but The Alexander technique which apparently inspired Moshe Feldenkrais. Its often labelled quackery as well. BMJ did a study and found positive results. https://www.bmj.com/content/337/BMJ.a884 https://www.bmj.com/content/337/BMJ.a884

usaphp 8y ago

I am working on a standing desk and am playing soccer 3 times a week, but still had back pain. Then I started doing light weight deadlifts , 3 times a week with back extension on a back extension bench and miraculously my back pain started to fade away within the next 2-3 weeks. I beleive it’s just our weekend lower back muscles that get weekend with age and lesser activity, and they can’t hold the spine anymore correctly.

vibrato 8y ago
More so weak glutes and tight hip flexors usually. Those exercises hit the glutes super hard if you do them while maintaining a neutral spine. However it wasn’t enough for me, my glute medius was weak and so I needed to add in yoga moves and side planks. Ddpy is the best for back pain!
- usaphp 8y ago
  How is yoga going to strengthen the muscles? I thought it’s for relaxation, no? Unless you are talking about some non traditional yoga. Also I do play soccer 3 times a week for my whole life and am a pretty fast runner so I don’t think my gluteus or hip flexors are weak.
  - jbverschoor 8y ago
    lol.. until you actually try. Just like the foam rollers. Everything seems so relaxing... :X
  - Tomte 8y ago
    I've started doing Iyengar Yoga a few weeks ago (but the specific school doesn't seem to matter in that regard), and believe me, it's the hardest workout I've ever done (to my shame). I'm certain I'm building muscles there. The focus seems to be stretching of hardly-ever-stretched muscles, but there are all kinds of postures that are basically body-weight exercises.
  - mtalantikite 8y ago
    Yoga asana incorporates a lot of body weight exercise, so yes you’ll gain a lot of strength in a practice like Ashtanga or Iyengar. A lot of asanas that don’t look complicated require very subtle muscle development, but you certainly can’t do Astavakrasana or press up into Pincha Mayurasana without tons of strength. For lower back I’ve found practicing Salabhasana, Dhanurasana, or Urdva Dhanurasana have helped.

newnewpdro 8y ago

In my teens I accidentally discovered a preference for sleeping on the floor, having carpet as a ground barrier, and blankets or a sleeping bag for warmth, pillow for my head. At the time I just wanted more space for computers in my small bedroom, so I got rid of my bed. When I moved into a larger space, the default was to get a normal western style bed. I did this but my back and neck would randomly hurt like never before. It appeared to clearly be correlated with the switch to sleeping on a deformable surface. So I got rid of the mattress and resumed sleeping on the floor. Now, ~20 years later, I still sleep on the floor and never have neck/back pain. Except for when I stay in hotels, where floors are exceptionally dirty, in those situations I often wake up with a stiff neck and/or back after sleeping on the bed. It's worth noting that other cultures don't use the squishy mattresses either, I'm not off the map breaking new ground here. If you suffer from back problems, I think it's reasonable to try adapting to sleeping on the floor. If it's too low-brow for you, you can spend money on japanese-style tatami mats - you can even get stylish bed frames for them.

dangban 8y ago
Got any thoughts on the use of pillows? A pain in the small of my back went away after I started sleeping on a hard floor with a thin mattress-pad underneath. The discomfort was brutal the first week though. I still love using my big squishy pillow tho, because I like sleeping on my side. I know that sleeping without a pillow has to be good for me... 2 million years of homo-noid evolution without pillows is all the facts I need. However, the most I'm able to go without a pillow is 2 nights. I have such terrible sleep, that I give in and use a pillow the 3rd night. Without a pillow I find I can't sleep on my side (which I love doing), and if I'm sleeping on my stomach then there's too much pressure on whichever face-cheek faces down, causing mild bruising. I'd love to learn to stop using pillows though.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  Not really, I use them mostly to support my head in side sleeping. Occasionally I'll use a folded arm instead, but that's uncommon. Congrats on getting past the acclimation period, it seems obviously better for your back. How has it affected your personal life? The last woman I dated was deeply offended by my disinterest in sharing her bed and insistence on sleeping on the floor after our first few overnights. This aspect of the practice seems the most problematic, it's had me consider moving to Japan.

afdaf44 8y ago

I don't know about this method, but for me Dr. Sarno's method worked. I was in so much pain that I could barely put my socks on without help. Then I read "Healing back pain" and it convinced me that my pain was psychosomatic. Once convinced, the pain disappeared in a day and never came back. Dr. Sarno's theory is that the mind can use pain as a way to shift attention away from psychological problems. The subconscious does that by reducing blood flow in the target tissue, which causes pain. Now I don't understand how accepting this as the cause of the pain can make it stop, but that's what happened to me and reportedly for many of Dr. Sarno's patients. About Dr. Sarno: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_E._Sarno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_E._Sarno

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
howard941 8y ago
What in interesting man and concept, if not a bit (I hesitate to use the term, it's not intended as a pejorative) reminiscent of the placebo effect.
- switchbak 8y ago
  Which is interesting in itself - if we could figure out more about this effect, perhaps we could harness it better. I've also read this book, and while I didn't have the immediate benefits of the parent commenter, it did help me to take ownership of my situation, and to work through the pain. For me the key was activity and building up the endurance/tone of the lower lumbar. This hurt a lot in my existing state, but once I cut the vicious cycle of inactivity leading to reduced muscle tone causing more pain, I was able to turn it around and reduce my pain and dysfunction almost entirely.
- Singletoned 8y ago
  Sarno's Theory could actually be a plausible explanation for the placebo effect. If some percentage of people suffering a condition have psychosomatic symptoms, when you give them a pill and tell them it will cure them, their brain could switch to creating a different psychosomatic effect (such as headaches instead of backache). This would give the effect of a placebo cure, and side-effects for the placebo cure (which is also something that is observed).

myth_drannon 8y ago

This really works. I had lower back pains from working on laptop with head looking down. Took two days workshop and on the second day all the pain was gone. Now every time I feel minor back pain, ten minutes of certain pelvis exercises and all is gone. Feldenkrais method birthed many more modern, specialized methods for example Anat Baniel for kids with mobility issues. I was really thinking its crackpot stuff until I tried it.

tomcam 8y ago

I cured 30+ years of back pain caused by walking recently by... standing up straight when I walk. Not trying to be funny here. Sitting has never caused problems because since the early 80s I developed perfect desk posture to avoid back pain. However, I never noticed until recently that I stooped over a little when I walked, which I do for at least an hour a day. Straightened up and boom, no more pain after walking.

mythrwy 8y ago

IDK about back pain, but eye exercises are a must for me much as I stare at screens. I saw a series of videos years ago (which I can't find online and don't recall the name of) where author claimed focusing on fixed distance close objects so much is messing up our vision. The exercises included a few things, "palming" and some other stuff (which I tried once or twice and never stuck with) but one in exercise in particular I do it frequently, at least several times a week, especially after a hard session in front of the screen. The gist of the exercise is (and again, can't find video) is to go somewhere where you can see very far with an open horizon (the ocean, on building roof, something like this, the best thing you can find but less than ideal works as well). You then relax your eyes and sort of gaze off into the distance with hands lifted up next to ears, maybe 6 or 8 inches off each ear. Then you kind of flick your fingers around where you can barely catch a glimpse of the movement out of the corner of each eye while continuing a relaxed gaze out in the distance. Do that for a couple of minutes, rest and repeat several times. It really works for me and immediately when done the ability to perceive depth seems much enhanced and I can "see" better, or that's how it feels. I didn't do any quantitative trials, nor do I know of any, there might be some. But FWIW.

dangban 8y ago
Recommended: Chrome extension called "eyeCare" that one can set up to periodically remind one to do eye exercises.

seaghost 8y ago

After many years I've realized that the cause of my back pain was the stress. Get rid of the stress and the back pain will disappear.

Mahn 8y ago
I've noticed this as well. It seems that when you are under stress several muscles in your body tense involuntarily, particularly in your back and your neck. It's very subtle, you don't really realize that your muscles are tense, your body simply gets used to it. Over time all that tightness and pressure causes pain, but because you don't consciously feel your muscles tense it feels like it's coming out of nowhere. It's like having a broken arm, but on the outside the arm is perfectly functional, all you know is that your arm has inexplicable pain from time to time. Long term stress causes all sorts of fun on your body (and your mind for that matter). I don't recommend it.

crazygringo 8y ago

As someone who long suffered from back pain, I studied all the relevant techniques -- Alexander, Feldenkrais, Structural Integration, and more. And they work in pieces, but they're different and confusing and each seem to claim to be able to solve more than any of them can individually. But for anyone reading this comment, there are two things I want to share, from hard-won experience: 1) Back pain and posture are incredibly complex and counter-intuitive, and come from a complex interplay of biomechanics, perception, and emotion. Anyone who says "just sit up straighter" or "just strengthen your core" or "use a standing desk" or "stretch more" or "it's a muscle imbalance, go to the gym" or "do yoga" doesn't know anything. Even if you think one of these helped you, it depends on the individual and they can do even more harm than good depending on the person. I think there's even more popular quackery in posture and back pain than there is in nutrition, and that's saying a lot. Even most doctors don't have the slightest clue -- which should be self-evident, given how many people have back pain and how it's not getting fixed. 2) The best place to start is "The New Rules of Posture: How to Sit, Stand, and Move in the Modern World" by Mary Bond. [1] It's the only book I've come across that takes the right holistic approach, but still maintains respect for "hard" science, explains the theory (medically, not according to any "school") but also gives you guided exercises. Start there, and then once you've gained a decent understanding of your body, you'll be in a place where you can figure out what more specific techniques you need, if you do (e.g. whether Alexander technique or psychotherapy). [1] https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594771243 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1594771243

_brvd 8y ago
Look into Ankylosing Spondolytis. I have it, after ten years unexplained back pain. Having back pain that won't go away isn't normal.
paulcole 8y ago
If everything depends on the individual, what’s the point of respecting hard science?
- adrianN 8y ago
  What cancer treatment works also depends largely on the individual, but you shouldn't listen to quacks for your treatment either.

ambrop7 8y ago

PSA: If you have back pain and also (what could be) bone pain in other places like legs, pelvis and chest, you might have a disease called hyperparathyroidism. Especially if you also have symptoms of hypercalcemia like fatigue, headaches, GERD and palpitations. I was recently diagnosed after more than a year of suffering and am getting surgery in 3 days, and complete resolution of all issues is expected. Much info is available on https://www.parathyroid.com/ https://www.parathyroid.com/

carapace 8y ago

I used to go to a Feldenkrais practitioner (since retired, alas) who was extraordinary. At one point during the session, when one side of my body had been "worked over" but not the other side, the relaxed leg would be actually be an inch longer than the as-yet-untreated leg. If you're interested, find and read Feldenkrais' books. One of the fascinating discoveries he made was that our internal proprioceptive perceptions are often muted and/or distorted, and that this is a pathological condition, in the sense that improving the fidelity of our proprioceptive perception improves physical, mental and emotional health. The man himself led an interesting life. He was an engineer and physicist and one of the first westerners to earn a black belt in Judo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosh%C3%A9_Feldenkrais https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosh%C3%A9_Feldenkrais

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
>the relaxed leg would be actually be an inch longer than the as-yet-untreated leg // You probably know the "move one arm around in a circle and it looks an inch shorter". This has been used by scammers to demonstrate their ability as physicians, "see I can manipulate your body so effectively your limbs are different lengths" ...
- carapace 8y ago
  I often hesitate to share anecdotes like the above because there's typically someone who will use it to impugn my faculties of observation and thought. I'm not a rube, thanks. Now, you may have heard of "evidence-based" medicine? Or the joke, "If alternative medicine works it's just called medicine."? The length difference I experienced was one aspect of a whole-body pervasive change that also affected and improved my mental and emotional functioning as well as relieving specific physical symptoms. If the effect is real and lasting, which it was and is, then in what possible sense can the practitioner be called a "scammer"? After all, I got the goods. As I mentioned, this system grew from the mind of a guy who was a physicist and Judo black belt. Those are two categories of people who have nothing to prove, eh? Physicists and Judo black belts do not need "hocus pocus" to impress people, eh? The method has a solid foundation and definite repeatable results. You'd be wise not to sniff at it.

beloch 8y ago

Back pain can be caused by so many things that what works for one person will likely not work for another. However, here is something that helped end my back problems which were of a type that may be fairly common in North America: When bending over, whether it's to pick something up from the ground or to wash your hands in the sink, bend from the hips while keeping your back arched. Do not roll your spine forwards. If you lack the flexibility to reach your aim, make up the difference by bending your knees. Your flexibility should improve with time. It was through hacker news that I found an article similar to the following: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/02/26/587735283/lost-art-of-bending-over-how-other-cultures-spare-their-spines https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/02/26/5877352... Scrupulously correct form when rowing and weight lifting plus special stretching exercises devised by a chiropractor did not help me. Changing how I bend when shaving or picking things up from the ground did. If you have back problems, pay attention to how you bend.

motohagiography 8y ago

Owned a cane for dibilitating flareups of sciatica at age of 30. Then lost 30lbs, rode horses on weekends, and learned to lift weights. Can still feel the weakness on that side from years of atrophy, and still use a knee pillow to offset night spasms, but walking straight for 6+ years now. Some people need surgery, but of the things to try before that, that's what has worked for me.

andrewl 8y ago

I read an article about the Feldenkrais Method in Smithsonian magazine decades ago. I can't find it on the magazine's site, but the Feldenkrais Institute has a PDF reprint: http://feldenkraisinstitute.com/images/uploads/Smithsonian_FINY.pdf http://feldenkraisinstitute.com/images/uploads/Smithsonian_F...

bitexploder 8y ago

Dr. Sarno has an interesting theory on chronic back pain. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/science-and-health/2017/10/2/16338094/dr-john-sarno-healing-back-pain https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/scienc... Some people call it quackery. I dismissed it when I heard about it. Some people swear by it and the connection to psychology and mental health should not be dismissed. Correlation, causation, mentally healthier people are probably more active... etc etc. still. A novel addition to your list of “add this to the mix” when troubleshooting.

aaronbrethorst 8y ago
I bought my then-girlfriend/now-wife a copy of Sarno's Mindbody Prescription a few years ago on the recommendation of someone on HN to help her with chronic back pain. It did her a world of good. Didn't fix everything, but definitely helped out quite a bit. https://www.amazon.com/Mindbody-Prescription-Healing-Body-Pain/dp/0446675156 https://www.amazon.com/Mindbody-Prescription-Healing-Body-Pa...
trafnar 8y ago
I'm very skeptical of these kinds of things, but when someone with a similar mindset to me recommended it, I checked it out with an open mind. Back pain I had been having for several months went away right after reading it.
- bitexploder 8y ago
  Same. I have never experienced this pain, but I helped my mother manage it. Years of surgeries, shots, and other failed efforts. She gave this book a shot and it has been nothing short of amazing. I think it works in many of these cases where there isn’t a good medical explanation. I still kind of don’t believe it, but.... she swears by it and we completely exhausted many other avenues.
Tharkun 8y ago
I read his book, and it's definitely quackery to me. If I remember correctly, he basically says back pain (and other kinds of chronic pain?) can be cured by forgiveness. Forgive your parents for abusing you as a kid. Forgive your robber for invading your home. And hey presto, no more pain.

mbfg 8y ago

At least it seems this is unlikely to hurt people more.

twblalock 8y ago

The worst part of having back pain is all of the suggestions from other people about how to solve back pain.

aasasd 8y ago

I don't know about “eye movements playing a vital role in coordinating the body’s musculature,” but otherwise: - The first class is reminiscent of guided meditation where one technique (afaik) is that your brain focuses on the extraneous input while the body relaxes, thus breaking the feedback loop of unconscious stress to muscle tenseness. This sort of meditation works wonders for muscle relaxation, you can't achieve that degree just by deciding to relax or with stretches. - I'd guess that the movements of each joint and muscle, among other things, improve blood flow and relieve tenseness, which makes them perform better afterwards. The focus on knowing the workings of your muscles is a big part of meditation for me—I've learned that normally I have a lot of tenseness that I can't shed by volition, and learned to look for this tenseness when my posture is bad. This sounds rather similar to what is said about the subject method in other comments. However, I'm not sure if this translates to muscle memory: I doubt that a bunch of sessions and occasional conscious alterations to the posture are enough to train the muscles to work a certain way. The article doesn't go into long-term effects, and notably in the last example the author didn't apply the lessons on her own for some reason, without getting back in the class (though it might've just been too early to develop the self-control).

toasterlovin 8y ago

Here’s a hypothesis everyone with chronic back pain should consider: because you sit at a desk all day and never lift heavy stuff, the natural process of atrophy has made your back too weak to support normal, day to day activity, causing your back to be sore all the time. If you want to test this hypothesis, all it takes is about 3 weeks of deadlifting 3x per week (takes about 20 minutes per workout, so an hour total per week). Could be the best 3 hours you ever invest in anything your whole life.

KennyCason 8y ago
I was about to mention this as well. In the list of things the author tried, they didn’t mention strength training. Since I started deadlifts, rack lifts, and more strength training in general I have had no back problems. Granted I’m sure this isn’t the solution for everyone of course, but with more desk zombies, I’m sure it’s more relevant than ever.
- subpixel 8y ago
  Just a reminder that any barbell lifts involving real weight can be as harmful as helpful if you are not properly trained or (like me) not smart about respecting your body’s limits. Deadlifts especially.
  - KennyCason 8y ago
    Most definitely. Must respect the weight. Ironically, I originally injured my back when lifting weights. In my case I was just being sloppy and beer may have been involved. :) This has been a hard lesson.
sizzle 8y ago
I can confirm this works for me, starting strength had changed my life in this regard. The mobile app has a phenomenal UX too for tracking progress with lifts, highly recommend it to anyone able bodied and looking to get into bar exercises for health reasons.
minothgd 8y ago

tacon 8y ago

For a terrific overview of the back pain industry and the scams that many places try to pull, I recommend the new book "Crooked: Outwitting the Back Pain Industry and Getting on the Road to Recovery"[0]. The author gave a great interview on this podcast episode[1]. She goes into the Sarno principles, among other topics. Strength training for the back is often a great help, but rarely prescribed by doctors. Most people have never heard of the multifidus muscles, much less seen the specialized machines for strengthening these muscles so critical to spinal stability[2]. [0] https://www.amazon.com/Crooked-Outwitting-Industry-Getting-Recovery/dp/0062641794/ https://www.amazon.com/Crooked-Outwitting-Industry-Getting-R... [1] https://informfitness.com/podcast/50-outwitting-back-pain-cathryn-jakobson-ramin/ https://informfitness.com/podcast/50-outwitting-back-pain-ca... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-FyeG7pqY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z-FyeG7pqY

jadoint 8y ago

To start with, this won't work for everyone mostly because not everyone works from home like I do. I used to have this constant, nagging lower back pain when I used to sit at a desk working an office job. It wasn't the sort of back pain where you've pulled a muscle after a botched deadlift or you just twisted the wrong way picking up a sock off the floor, but it was the sort of pain where it just felt like there was a warm knot in your lower back that was not-quite-painful but incredibly uncomfortable. Hard to explain. It was hard to sit still and I had to change sitting positions after every 5-10 minutes which made it difficult to actually focus on work. I strengthened my core and tried various stretches but it never went away. This went on for years until I started working from home. I figured, instead of trying to find the perfect way to sit, why sit at all? Maybe humans weren't built to sit for long periods of time but I sure don't have problems lying down! I got myself a laptop stand, started working while lying down, and I've never had lower back issues since. I wouldn't mind having JP's set up in Grandma's Boy either actually (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLR3faI7lU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHLR3faI7lU). Monitors at eye level to eliminate neck strain, seat all the way reclined to relieve lower back pressure, and keyboard at just the right height. Perfect.

mrhappyunhappy 8y ago

I had back pain and started working out - mostly doing insanity from beach body and back pain went away. I would attribute it to core strengthening. I would not recommend insanity to people now though- the exercise program is far too high impact and totally overkill. These days I do push ups, planks, stretches, weighted sit ups and don’t seem to have any pain.

schuke 8y ago

Here’s my anecdotal evidence. I had a very bad neck pain for the last few years, sometimes it can be very acute with no obvious trigger. I almost wouldn’t be able to move my neck at all. I tried to cut my laptop and phone use, but to very little avail. Untill one day I accidently found it’s acutally more like my trapezius than my neck, then I realized it was from weight training—the activity that was supposed to improve my posture and muscles. Then I finally zoomed in onto one exercise: the squat. Holding the bar required squeezing my shoulder blades and, your guessed, trapezius. The squeeze was so slight I never felt any immediate discomfort. But from a post hoc perspective the acute neck pain usually occured a few days after the workout. The causal link is very hard to notice. But once I stopped doing squats, the neck pain almost never occurred again. And you’d think if it’s the trapezius then exercises that utilize the same muscle would cause the same symptom? Yet the answet is no.

mr_overalls 8y ago
How do you position your neck during the squat? I.e. do you try to look at the ceiling, or do you gaze at the floor? I ask because my football coach gave me the "look at the ceiling" advice back in the 80's - which was a standard movement cue back then, designed to help maintain lumber extension - and so I suffered neck pain after squatting for years. The more modern advice to maintain a neutral spine and let one's gaze rest somewhere below horizontal has made squatting a pain-free experience for me. http://www.fitnessandpower.com/training/bodybuilding-misc/squat-head-position http://www.fitnessandpower.com/training/bodybuilding-misc/sq...
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jamesb93 8y ago
Sounds like you had a tightness you weren't managing or your form was incorrect. I'd hedge your elbow position was off or your hands were too close.
- tejohnso 8y ago
  That, or bar placement too high on the neck, or involuntary neck straining (chin goes up, back of neck goes forward), or maybe just too much weight. It's a compound exercise where a lot can go wrong.

sunstone 8y ago

Ok I've read through all the posts as of (about) the time of this post. I've had a lot of non-professional experience with personal back pain and with fixing the back pain of others. This is what I've found but your mileage will almost certainly vary because back problems are usually very particular. That said this might help suffers with a similar cause. In my experience there are two kinds of back problems. These are a) chronic, very bad problems and b) run of the mill everyone's everyday back and neck problems. I've had both and I've treated a lot of the latter. * Do not follow any of the techniques discussed in this post without first consulting a qualified professional. * These are two very different situations. Let's start with the every day stuff because that's by far what most people experience. This involves a lot of neck and arm pain (and lower arm repetitive strain injury) caused (mostly) by computer mousing. It also includes the cliched lower back pain that lasts for a few days and then generally "goes away". These kinds of pains can almost always be fixed within 5 to 10 minutes (yes I know this sounds insane if you've had it for a few years or more) with the right kind of massage (not too hard but not too light) in the right places. For neck pain the massage points are almost always vertically on the shoulders about half way between the neck and the shoulder and horizontally between the spine the shoulder blade about 2/3rds of the way down shoulder blade. DO NOT MASSAGE THE NECK AT ALL. Even though that's where the pain seems to be. It's a referred pain. For shoulder/arm pain the massage points almost always start in shoulder blade (a few different usual suspects) and then follow that down to just below the elbow and then, if it's really bad -- just above the wrist or in the hand itself). Garden variety lower back pain can very often be alleviated with massage points on the pelvic girdle. These are tricky to find but very effective. Five minutes of the right pressure in the right place can make almost all the pain "go away". So can you go to a massage therapist and get these effective treatments? My sense of it is, very rarely. Usually their touch is too light to elicit the full therapeutic response. Yes you'll feel a bit better but it won't feel fully recovered in a handful of sessions. You'll have to shop around the get the real deal. My guess is that most therapists are unwilling to cause the required amount of pain in their massage technique, though that is just speculation on my part. So, moving on to the second category, real bad chronic damage. In my personal experience it's likely that discs or cartilage was damaged. Massage will not fix injuries like this. Furthermore that kind of tissue has a poor blood supply so it takes a long time to heal properly. In my case it was three years. And definitely not 5-10 minutes as described above. In this kind of situation, one of the most important things to know is that the further damage you do today will not be felt until tomorrow. So suppose you fall off your bike and cause this kind of serious damage and after 3 months you feel great so you jump on your bike and ride to work. It's all good until the next day when you start to feel spasms return to your back. Why didn't they tell you about this? I don't know but in my case they never did. The only strategy here is to resign yourself to a long recovery, try to keep limber in the unaffected joints and re-engage the damaged area very carefully and slowly. Too slow is not good, too fast is not good. Knowing the difference is almost impossible. If anyone knows a fool proof way to manage this situation, this side of a team of specialists, I'm all ears.

whiddershins 8y ago

I have known many people with back pain, and many people who treat back pain. I have studied many techniques for many years myself. Across all my friends I have seen the results of tai chi (several types), yoga (several types), traditional chinese bone setting, acupuncture, many types of massage, alexander technique, qi gong routines, weigh training, osteopathy, surgery and lots more. I think there's a lot of evidence people should try to avoid surgery. Two people I respect who had tried everything else rave about "Pain Free" by Pete Egoscue. The reason for my comment is that in my experience, back pain is treatable much more often than people think. But no one thing seems to work for everybody. And the level of talent and expertise of the instructor/healer is usually more important than the label someone gives to their modality. So if you are in pain, keep investigating! Keep trying different things! And don't fall in to the "x didn't work." fallacy. A different practitioner might do the job even if they say they are doing the same treatment. And if something works, it will work fairly quickly and shouldn't need ongoing expensive treatment by the same person indefinitely. This stuff is usually solvable.

yeutterg 8y ago
Backing this up, here's my personal journey: I had back pain for a few years that has been basically gone for six months. A combination of these helped: * daily inversion (Teeter Gravity Boots on a pull-up bar—I actually pull down on the door frame while inverted for extra decompression) * daily yoga (at home, from YouTube videos) * using a standing desk most of the time * Rolfing about once every eight weeks (type of massage focused on aligning fascia. It's pricey and a little pseudoscience-y but actually works really well) * occasional targeted sports massage (if I'm crying, I know it's good) If there's one thing of all those that's made the most difference, it's inversion. I feel so tall now. Seriously, invest in an inversion table or inversion boots if it's safe for you to do this exercise. My posture is still not where I want it to be, but it's much better than it used to be. I still get tight in the neck (likely due to poor sleep posture). I had chronic pain in my left foot (likely plantar fasciitis) that disappears but comes back about once every two weeks. Both have gotten much better with some targeted yoga exercises, but it's a journey. I'm slowly going through the book 8 Steps to a Pain-Free Back by Esther Gokhale (https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Shoulder/dp/0979303605 https://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Free-Back-Solutions-Should...). The author studied posture in industrial vs. non-industrial societies, and she concluded that most pain is not inevitable. We have just forgotten about the importance of posture in industrialized societies. The book gives you eight sessions to practice primal posture for sleeping, standing, and sitting. I'm thinking about investing $400 in the Gokhale Method in-person course. I now prioritize flexibility over strength. 20-40 minutes of yoga per day is a large commitment, but it's worth it. I'm still basically as strong as I was when I did CrossFit, even though my "exercise" is limited to yoga, basic bodyweight exercises like pull-ups and inverted sit-ups, and long, meditative walks. Finally, I make some lifestyle choices around posture. For example, always getting an aisle seat for flights longer than 3 hours, so I can easily get up to stretch and walk around. Choosing a more-supportive chair at a restaurant over a slouchy booth. Not reading in bed often. If you have back pain, maybe something here will be worth trying to you. Keep at it!

Fnoord 8y ago

English Wikipedia contains some warnings (with references) about the Feldenkrais Method [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldenkrais_Method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feldenkrais_Method

sgdesign 8y ago

I don't really suffer from back pain myself but in case this helps other, I think the Foundation Training exercises are pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI

FrozenVoid 8y ago

I used rolling my head left-right on a pillow slowly to reduce neck pain. It makes the muscles in the neck work out and relieves pain after awhile. Just staying in same place doesn't fix anything, and sudden motions engage the fast-twitch fibers - while also causing pain. Slower motion doesn't trigger pain.

bno1 8y ago

I'm 23 and I had numerous episodes of back pains lasting from a few days to weeks. I've never went to the doctor or seek professional help yet. Whenever I have a back pain episode my pelvis is tilted, as if my left leg is shorter than my right one. This becomes more acute after weight training at the gym or long sessions of sitting down. I don't know if this is caused by a muscular imbalance or that my body learned to sit in that position because it's less painful. I found out that standing up, walking more and, most importantly, sleeping on my back help quicken the healing. I also avoid weight lifting during the episodes, it only makes the situation worse.

jjjensen90 8y ago
You might consider seeing a physical therapist. A lot of people don't know PTs will help with pain and movement issues even if you aren't recovering from an injury etc. They are cheap to see and they can usually help a lot with issues like this. I would be careful with weight training even outside of the episodes because you could be exacerbating the issue (though I am not a DPT).

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jwmoz 8y ago

I've had chronic back pain for the past 3 or so years brought on by years of poor posture at the computer and training thai boxing intensely. Tried various doctors, physios, osteos, acupuncture, tonnes of massage, cupping. Finally saw some progress this year - one osteo noticed my lower back and sacrum was misaligned and adjusted it and magically the chronic pain at the lower region improved and started to shift. I also began Pilates which I believe helps to reduce the pain and improve your posture and strength - massively recommend it. Still get pains and joint issues with the upper area now, and actually semi-sprained my lower last week but have rested and used ice baths which has helped. Advice: try as many pros as possible, they all give you differing advice. A doctor said I had myo-fascia syndrome, after a rushed 5 min consultation - a physio later laughed at this. Do Pilates - it is designed for the spine and back posture, I found it to help and quite enjoyed it and found it relaxing. And movement and exercise is an absolute must - swimming helps. Don't train hard martial arts. I'm struggling to fix my back and progress in BJJ.

oyebenny 8y ago
Oss!

eludwig 8y ago

My particular cure (2 herniated discs with associated deep pain/sciatica) was to resume running again after a 40 year stoppage (HS cross country). Worked great. I do about 15-20 miles a week at an average 8:30 mile pace and the back pain is now very manageable. I've been careful not to push too hard, as I do not want to trade one debilitating injury for another (knees, shins, etc). Highly recommended but surely not for everyone, just those so inclined (I have a lot of excess energy to burn!). A nice side effect is that the exertion is also a mood improver! Don't underestimate vigorous activity (with sensible limits).

barronli 8y ago

Lots of good advices on correct exercises, but I want to mention that, correct relaxation is equally important.

wwarner 8y ago

I've done a bit of feldenkrais. It makes you think about being a bit nicer to yourself, a bit more patient. I would think it would be an excellent approach to training for a marathon, or learning math for that matter.

MrStonedOne 8y ago

I had recurring lower back pain with a cause that didn't show up on xrays, with the physiatrists suggesting back and hip exercises in physical therapy. They didn't do too much to help. Shortly after physical therapy ended, I had some infected teeth removed, and a round of antibiotics. The back pain, a minor neck stiffness that they had just attributed to stress, and repeating strain/tension headaches my neurologist was treating with low dosage muscle relaxers all went away in the days following the extraction, never to return. I was on some pain meds for the first few days after the extraction, so i can't know how quickly the symptoms went away, just that they did. I told all of them in follow up appointments, They didn't know why, only offered suggestions about what it could have been, most relating to the neck and nerves and tension that could maybe possibly influence the rest of my spine/hip.

goda90 8y ago
Perhaps the infected teeth affected your sleep, making you toss and turn and hurt your back.