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I'm on the verge of wearing an infrared LED baseball cap everywhere I go now. Maybe I'm overly paranoid, but better to start earlier than later? Also, are infr
by bowmessage 8y ago
I'm on the verge of wearing an infrared LED baseball cap everywhere I go now. Maybe I'm overly paranoid, but better to start earlier than later?
Also, are infrared LED disguise devices easily defeated? E.g. can camera installers just add an additional infrared filter to their setup?
- peteretep 8y agoSimpler solution: move to Europe.
- maxxxxx 8y agoWe are creating a really nice world. At work you have to wear headsets to be able to focus. And in the public you have to wear some variation of a tinfoil hat to avoid being tracked everywhere. Soon the idea of doing anything without the knowledge of dozens of companies and governments will be a quaint memory.
- fossuser 8y agoIt won't save you - gait detection is also being used in places like China and that's a lot harder to protect yourself from. Systems also tend to use regular and infrared images for detection too (at least in the case of ALPR). We need people to care about these things and how the data is used, we need laws for rules around collection, access, and rights. We need to work together towards maintaining the ideas that support western democracy rather than moving towards nationalism. I worry that instability from climate change and the refugee crisis that comes from that instability will make things worse, along with the current centralization of wealth/inequality issues and rise of more populist right wing movements. Individual technical solutions will likely not do much to protect you if we lose the cultural framework around democracy.
- kardos 8y agoI thought the workaround there was to put a handful of gravel in your shoes to disguise your gait
- fossuser 8y agoAre you always changing the amount of gravel every time you go out? These work arounds seem pretty unrealistic and likely you could try and train whatever variance they cause anyway into the model.
- stronglikedan 8y ago> gait detection All I can think of is The Ministry of Silly Walks.
- obviousresult 8y agoThe cyberpunk media was all wrong- people won't be wearing masks and punk hairstyles to hide their faces; they'll be walking silly and wearing baggy pants to hide their gaits.
- stronglikedan 8y agoYou have a great point with the baggy pants. I think I'll go invest in Jnco.
- gotocake 8y agoMaybe the future is just full of EM blasters and jammers, made as easy to buy and hard to control as insanely overpowered laser pointers.
- TeMPOraL 8y agoIt's sickening to think that you're going to have to engage in actual electronic warfare with the world around you just to buy some milk for breakfast.
- hannasanarion 8y agoIn order to save yourself from, what exactly? The local grocer having a picture of you in their store?
- TeMPOraL 8y agoWhat do they need that for? Also, such systems are primarily used by chain shops, and provided by specialized companies. Both mean the data gets shared to multiple entities.
- anigbrowl 8y agoLaws are only as reliable as the integrity of those who write and enforce them.
- fossuser 8y agoI agree - that's why it's just as important to maintain the culture of western democracy, government driven by an idea and not by people. If we lose that then the laws won't protect us either. A relevant description I heard that I liked was that democracy is a boulder at the top of a hill that was pushed there by the deaths of millions, ready to roll down at any time. It takes work to keep things in that state and to protect it.
- TheRealDunkirk 8y agoAnd when they're being written by lobbyists from Wal-Mart and Target...
- bradknowles 8y agoOr AT&T, GM, Amazon, and all the other biggest members of the Fortune 100.
- walrus01 8y ago> gait detection not to be confused with galt detection, which tracks people who've read Atlas Shrugged and took its economic/political philosophy a little too seriously.
- tzakrajs 8y agoExoskeleton that walks with a pseudo-random gait.
- Balgair 8y agoChrist! At that point, you just give up and go live in the woods. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz1M5i5Y4Qc&t=1m40s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz1M5i5Y4Qc&t=1m40s
- fossuser 8y ago“Did you find him in the video feed sir?” “We got nothing via gait detection, but the intern noticed this guy walking around in an exoskeleton suit so we sent a unit out to bring him in”
- bradknowles 8y agoNow you know the REAL reason that they banned Segways everywhere! ;)
- Rodeoclash 8y agoNow remember, walk without rhythm, and we won't attract the worm.
- JustSomeNobody 8y agoPut a small pebble in your shoe. Alternate shoes regularly.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoPut a stone in your shoe and periodically move it to change your gait.
- onemoresoop 8y agoGait detection can be easily be fooled, you just wear some weird shoes that make walking hard in. Your gait will change drastically. Alternate between zero drop, heel and reverse heel.
- bonestamp2 8y agoFast forward to the year 2050: "Why is everyone wearing ski boots and ski masks... it's 100 degrees?"
- fossuser 8y agoImagine yourself tasked with solving this problem, how would you do it? The first thing I would do is gather a bunch of data for people walking trying to mess up their gait. Different types of shoes, pebbles in shoes etc. Then include that in the model or even just look for that as suspicious itself. You're not giving enough credit to the capability of the people that do this kind of work. It is not simple to avoid and the vast majority of people would not even go this far. How many people communicate entirely over encryption today?
- tartoran 8y agoIt's actually a hard problem that people who do this encounter and seems impossible to get right. We actually can tell if a friend is walking in the distance by looking at gait+clothes but could make mistkes as well, it's not 100% accurate. For surveillance reasons it's much easier to get 100 accuracy with just tagging people with microchips and that'a that. Why would we want to excel at gait-fingerprinting people?? That's a scary thing to want to perfect. Very Science fictiony and hopefully not prevalent in the future
- AngryData 8y agoRandomized inflating bladders under your toe and heel, change your shoe type as you walk!
- AngryData 8y agoMaybe bell bottom pants will come back in fashion!
- bsenftner 8y agoGait detection is a joke, technically discredited, and only suitable for use by bad journalism. It does not work because it is so easily defeated: put a rock in your shoe, where your shoes on the wrong feet, or just injure a foot. Your gait is different.
- ChuckMcM 8y agoI saw an interesting hoodie with the brim of the hood was a row of flashing IR LEDs. I asked if they had forgotten to turn on their LEDs and they said "take a picture." I did and got just a bright glowy spot where their face should be. It was pretty impressive, but it would not be hard to put an optical filter on specific wavelengths from LEDs if that became more common.
- Balgair 8y agoNow that's an arms race I can get behind! Cheap LEDs/filters in more than just the visible spectrum would be SUCH a boon to researchers.
- sigstoat 8y agowe might be saved because security cameras use those same LEDs and their near IR sensitivity for "night vision" purposes. if they filter it out, they don't have their "night vision" any more. (obviously twice as many cameras, or more expensive ones, or whatever, could deal with it.)
- bradknowles 8y agoDo sensor fusion of the IR-sensitive and non-IR sensitive cameras, and now you know who your biggest targets are, and they make themselves so very easy to follow!
- ChuckMcM 8y agoClearly Defcon needs a facial rec village next year, get through three rooms without having your face recognized to win :-)
- peteretep 8y agoNo affiliation but was Googling round from your comment and found: http://www.reflectacles.com/ http://www.reflectacles.com/
- ChuckMcM 8y agoNice, same concept in an easier to wear package. I love the idea of using the retroreflective tape on these things.
- alexnewman 8y agoYou will blind people
- alexnewman 8y agowhy was I down voted for warning people against dangerous behavior
- Skrillex 8y agoAbsurd that people are being driven to actually wear tinfoil hats on this skeever-hole of a planet.
- wegotscrewed 8y agoAs an adult, it's too late for you. But for your kids it's not too late to start. I saw infrared LED baseball caps at the local kids clothing store.
- avip 8y agoHigh-end security cameras have day/night modes with IR cutoff filters. But yes, you're overly paranoid.
- Scoundreller 8y agoWhy do they have that filter? Cellphones don’t and take good pictures in day or night conditions.
- avip 8y agoBecause you cannot have high-quality image, especially with good spectral content, both day and night, without an IR cutoff filter. Some cellphones do have IR filters, others can't take decent low-light photos. And many "secured areas" would actually have IR lights on to facilitate, well - visual surveillance.
- zeta0134 8y agoInfrared LED devices are quite easily defeated using an appropriate filter. Doing this though introduces another problem: most security cameras use an array of infrared LEDs for lighting. These are ideal because they produce almost no visible light to the human eye, so they're relatively covert. You can block the infrared LED emissions, but then you also block a very useful source of "invisible" lighting in otherwise challenging areas. I think a much bigger problem with your technique though is... seriously who wears an infrared LED baseball cap? You would be very easily identifiable because that technique is likely to be nearly unique in your store; your attempt to mask your identity would have the opposite effect of drawing more attention to it.
- quakeguy 8y agoI smell a startup opportunity right here, make those hats a fashion must have and we have a crowd of infrared decoys that interrupt all cctv‘s... Problem would be law inforcement not being able to use any recordings. But otoh, back to the roots of criminal investigation! This comment may include some not so serious suggestions.
- module0000 8y ago>> can camera installers just add an additional infrared filter to their setup? Yes - your smartphone camera already has one unless it's old and/or cheap. Also, your LED baseball cap draws much more attention to you than anything else. That screams "look at me, I have something to hide". If you weren't on their radar before being seen in it, you almost certainly are afterwards. That type of behavior can also trouble you in unrelated matters. EG, evidence of you wearing that to foil security cameras could be circumstantially presented to make you appear deceptive or conniving. tldr; don't do anything to stand out if privacy is your goal.
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- Scoundreller 8y agoA retro reflective hat or sweater would work well in night time conditions, no? Or at least be a good second feature. Saturate the sensor in an environment that otherwise reflects little. Even a small retro reflective logo can ruin a flash photo...
- Forbo 8y agoI just got a pair of these recently: https://www.reflectacles.com https://www.reflectacles.com
- Scoundreller 8y agoYikes, US$95 or US$125. May as well make your own with strips of DOT tape.
- Forbo 8y agoHaving no experience with 3D printing, CAD, or knowledge of various reflectivity materials, I could spend the time necessary to chase those rabbits. Or I could just buy a pair.
- bradknowles 8y agoSo, you just made yourself the single biggest target on their radar, and you made absolutely certain that they will know exactly who you are and where you are -- at all times. How exactly does that help?
- null0pointer 8y agoOne day I'll forget to charge my hat
- westpfelia 8y agoThe thing that fucks with me the most is people have already been born who will be tracked in stores their whole lives. Unless something changes that is. The idea that you will be watched and tracked your whole life so that a store can better advertise/set up the store is terrifying. Honestly how the hell can it be legal?
- bsenftner 8y agoAny of the EDM LED Fashion eye wear (frames that glow colors) fully defeats FR. Any baseball cap with a blinky LED on will defeat FR. Wear a glow stick necklace, and it will defeat FR. The key is to create unnatural hot spots and shadows on a face that is not the type of imagery the ML was trained. Source: I write the software, I'm a lead FR developer.