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Why Apple Eventually Lost Me and I’m Switching Back to Windows

76 points by AliCollins 8y ago

felipelemos 8y ago
I have some oldschool hardcore Apple fanboys that did the same in the past couple of years. Who could imagine, 5 to 10 years ago, that such trend would exist today?
- jen729w 8y ago
  Whoa there, I get called a 'fanboi' (you appear to have mis-spelled it) all the time, and it's because of my unwavering, steadfast, absolutely doesn't-matter-what-they-do loyalty to Apple. I mean, Tim Cook could murder my dog, I literally do not give a shit. You can't go calling these weak fools who've switched fanboys. They give us fanbois a bad name! /s
madengr 8y ago
I’m in the same boat. I have an old style Mac Pro. Maybe I can just install an SSD to speed things up, but it’s a slow dog now. Buying a iMac that can’t be fixed really is a horror. This guys failed just after the warranty. There is no excuse for Apple making things like this. https://youtu.be/yKD682dBbSQ https://youtu.be/yKD682dBbSQ
hn_user2 8y ago
There are many reasons to chose Mac or Windows. I would expect an article about why someone switched to be more nuanced than price. I mean price is a valid reason too, but not very insightful.
- puranjay 8y ago
  I used to balk at the Macbook price. Then I realized I spent nearly 10 hours a day on my laptop, that it was the source of my livelihood, and that I'd lost hours in frustration at the Windows experience. Price makes sense as a complaint for most people, but for professionals whose job depends on their tools, I'd say it is worth it to splurge for a better experience.
- copperx 8y ago
  Of price is the only reason, then it would make sense to build a Hackintosh. It is not a lot of work if you pick the parts correctly from the beginning. Price is not the only factor for me, so I built a custom Linux desktop. It is much more ergonomic than a Mac for software development.
- lmilcin 8y ago
  I agree, price is very subjective. When your machine is your main work tool and you are paid reasonably well the cost of it becomes pretty much insignificant. What is important is how well it suits your needs. I had some stability problems with my laptop and I just bought new one and gave the old one away to family because the financial loss it was causing me was on the order of the price of new one. I would prefer to listen to what kind of problems the author had that would prompt him to switch to Windows and how it affected his life/work positively instead of just complaining that the price is too high.
circles_for-day 8y ago
People have written this article for 25 years. I think it’s surprising they keep doing it.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  If Apple had not had successes like iPod and iPhone, there wasn't much left to write about.
tyingq 8y ago
I believe Mac is around 9% of revenue for Apple now. And maybe at lower margins than other products. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they tweaked iOS into providing a mediocre desktop/laptop variant and dropped MacOS altogether.
velobro 8y ago
Just another run off the mill "I'm not getting another mac" complaint article. 1) Introduce myself by explaining how emotionally attached I was to the first Macs I bought 2) Complain about price 3) Complain about price some more 4) Did I mention price? 5) Windows has caught up to MacOS (which assumes Mac was ever ahead of Windows to begin with) 6) I'm an "x", and I do "y". I can do "y" just as well on Windows 7) Since I can "y" on Windows, let me bring up again how Macs are expensive and how I shouldn't have to drop that kinda of money for one
- lprd 8y ago
  Yep, complaining about Apple is so trendy these days.
  - JustSomeNobody 8y ago
    Isn't that telling in some ways though? Apple has made some wrong steps lately, in some people's eyes. Will there eventually be enough people changing to make Apple get concerned? We'll have to wait and see.
    - sbuk 8y ago
      I'd argue that they're no different in all honesty. It's taken them a while, but the likes of Lenovo and Dell have upped their game, so what were once niggles with Apple's offereings appear worse. I've been an Apple user for close to 30 years and the issues we're seeing are nothing in comparison to the Performa days. As for removing and changing ports etc., they've always done it. Long may it continue as it more often than not forces industry changes for the better.
    - Nerdfest 8y ago
      People won't abandon Apple in droves unless the media start trashing them to the same degree they've been praising them. They've effectively given Apple billions in free advertising over the years, so I'd guess it would take a lot of trashing.
- jmuguy 8y ago
have_faith 8y ago
I use MacOS and Windows at home. I want to switch to Windows exclusively just so I can have more control over the hardware but using my windows machine for the occasional gaming gives me enough reasons not to want to switch completely. No standout problems, it's death by a thousand cuts.
- LaGrange 8y ago
  The incompatibility between the Windows and *nix filesystems is doing that to me. Running Vagrant or Docker based development on Windows turns quickly to nightmare, not because the tools are bad, but because mapping your dev directory to the vm side is non-trivial. I've tried the linux subsystem, but the result was also disappointing. The one way I could see it working would be if I switched back from VS Code to vim, and use that inside the linux subsystem. Which means that a Microsoft product is keeping me on the Mac right now.
  - WordSkill 8y ago
    There is a Linux version of VS Code.
edoo 8y ago
I've been on a linux desktop for several years now. I use a VM for any windows dev I have to do. I should have made the switch sooner. Consider that instead of windows.
- Tade0 8y ago
  I switched from Windows to Linux after a certain update was happy to lock me out of my account. Only thing I miss really is the battery life.
  - sofaofthedamned 8y ago
    Strangely on my 6 month old Lenovo X1 Carbon Thinkpad I have better battery on Fedora 28 than on Windows 10. I think maybe Windows updates are part of the reason, the fans go mad when there's a WU process running, I don't think i've ever heard the fan going off under Linux. Workloads aren't massive - on both platforms i've probably 50% Firefox, 30% VSCode, 20% SSH. I rarely need to boot into Windows bar 2 apps. However the update process is so unbearable I make sure to login once a week just to make sure major updates are done as i've been stuck before trying to login but WU spends 15 minutes finalising some update. Can't believe they made update management worse under W10, it's easiest the best bit about Linux when I show newbies.
- szemet 8y ago
  I'm using Linux on desktop for more then 10 years now. I guess the main reason is that after a few years you just can't leave it - due to the IKEA effect ;) (same with using Emacs) And even if the desktop situation gets worse (so you have to fix something) you just bond more: Catch-22... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect
  - beatgammit 8y ago
    Huh, I didn't realize that was a thing. My wife and I continue to buy unassembled products because: - price - we like assembling stuff - our sedan is enough to buy furniture - cheaper, unassembled furniture presents less commitment We've replaced Ikea furniture without any attachment issues that I can detect other than the sunk cost fallacy, but that seems to be more prevalent in our more expensive purchases. I didn't realize that so many people because attached to Ikea stuff.
wc_cs 8y ago
I only bought a Mac because I like the experience and unix utilities for programming. I still use Windows when I want to game on PC. Presumably this is the case for a lot of developers?
- sys_64738 8y ago
  Windows Subsystem for Linux provides this natively now. It is very, very effective.
- beatgammit 8y ago
  Have you tried Steam Play? It has worked quite well for me on Linux, and I know Proton works on macOS (not sure if you still have to build from source), but it could be enough to get you away from dual booting. I dual boot Windows and Linux, but since I default to Linux, I find myself choosing to do stuff on Linux instead of rebooting (even though rebooting takes ~10s). Only rarely do I get a hankering for a Windows-only game. I wonder if Valve's initiative will get enough games to work that people increasingly switch to Linux/macOS for gaming.
m_mueller 8y ago
I've done it since this summer, going from a 2012 rMBP to a near-maxed out Thinkpad 480s (1 TB SSD, 24GB RAM for USD 2300? hell yeah..). Let me tell you though that as a mac user going to windows 10 you give up much more than a bit of polish - it's really cutting into your productivity. Just one tiny (but anger inducing) example: You can have either Windows Defender or a hangup-free Windows Explorer, but not both (and I'm talking hangups that sometimes can leave you waiting for minutes until you see your files). To sum it all up, Windows is (a) way way less responsive to UI inputs and (b) way way less consistent how to get things done, but you can certainly get things done. (a) means a constant but small tax on productivity, (b) means that you waste a lot of time initially until you've figured out all the edge cases. Whether or not this all justifies the Apple tax, everyone (or their organisation) has to decide, but let me just give this warning as a power user / software dev who did the transition.
- WhompingWindows 8y ago
  Every time you switch working environments, you'll incur a large loss of productivity to not knowing the UI tricks, shortcuts, and the edge cases. If you use the products similarly, though, you should build muscle-memory and productivity enhancements over the many month time-frame. I've used 3 different OS and this is how it's worked for me each time I transitioned.
  - m_mueller 8y ago
    Yes, hence the loss I categorized under (b). (a) still incurs though, no matter how long you've been using Windows.
- verinus 8y ago
  strange. I think something else is causing your issues. I am running Win 10 with Defender for years without trouble. UI input lags are also very strange and not a Windows phenomena.
  - m_mueller 8y ago
    Judging by a previous discussion [1] I don't think I'm alone with these issues. It doesn't happen every time but it happens regularly and for almost random durations. Plus Windows in general just isn't that responsive, just take the start menu as an example and compare with almost any UI interaction on macOS. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18191622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18191622
corobo 8y ago
The price, to save you a click
Severian 8y ago
Louis Rossmann, a well known advocate for right-to-repair and a repair shop owner has a lot to say about Apple's build quality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8 His videos are a great rabbit hole to go down, if you are interested in laptop repair methods. He knows his stuff.
S_A_P 8y ago
Serious question- is this a famous photographer or otherwise celebrity? I have no idea. I fully support anyone using the computer that works best for them. I even concede that Apple is not making their best stuff right now. I don’t understand why people write these types of essays. Are they trying to convince others to make the same decision? Are they looking for validation? I can see how this comes across as snark but I really don’t understand the motivation.
- ubercow13 8y ago
  People define themselves by what they buy. That's part of consumerism. Articles like this are just people expressing themselves.
amacbride 8y ago
I think the other critiques of is article are on point, but there was one quote that did resonate with me (as an Apple user and developer since the ][ ): “Seriously Apple, what is going on with the QA department there?”
- vetinari 8y ago
  > “Seriously Apple, what is going on with the QA department there?” Oh boy, he is in for a surprise on the Microsoft side of the fence...
carlosrdrz 8y ago
For me it's been the opposite, actually. I use Mac, Windows 10 and Ubuntu for different use cases, and I keep finding Mac more appealing. I have to work around Ubuntu to make some stuff work sometimes. I really like Windows 10, but I have issues occasionally as well. With OS X, most of the stuff I try to do just work. A few years back, I'd prefer to buy my own hardware, build my own PC and run Windows to save some cash and have a powerful PC. I would need to work a bit to make it work, sure, but I'd save some money. Now, I'd rather get an Mac, which is more expensive, but for which I have to worry about much fewer hardware and software issues. I wonder if getting one of those Microsoft Surface Laptops would give me a similar experience with Windows 10, though.
puranjay 8y ago
I'll wait for the next piece in the series where the author trashes Windows and switches back to Mac. Because Windows 10 is absolutely broken.
scarface74 8y ago
As far as price, I was looking into getting a 5K iMac in a year specifically because of the price. It doesn’t seem like anyone sells a 5K monitor anymore except for LG and those go for $1300. $2300 for a decently equipped iMac 5K (16GB of RAM, 256GB SSD) is not bad.
- lallysingh 8y ago
  Note that you can pick up a pretty well equipped pc for $1K and can upgrade/cannibalize that total (PC/display) investment for many years.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    Of course no one can predict the future, but seeing that until last month I was running my Plex Server on a 2009 era Core 2 Duo 2.66Ghz running Windows 10 with 8GB of RAM and in day to day use, I couldn’t tell any performance difference between that and a newer computer except for the spinning hard drive. Computers just aren’t becoming obsolete as fast as they use to. I should be able to get at least 5 years out of it as a primary computer and even longer as a secondary computer. These are the specs of a late 2012 iMac. https://support.apple.com/kb/sp667?locale=en_US https://support.apple.com/kb/sp667?locale=en_US This would be a perfectly usable development machine.
- gruez 8y ago
  I don't get this line of logic (if you want to get a comparable Linux/windows laptop with retinia/5k display, it will cost you just as much as a Mac, so macs are pretty reasonably priced) when justifying Mac purchases. why are you so dead set on getting a 5k display when you can get a comparable 4k display for $600? is the 25% increase in pixel density really that important?
  - scarface74 8y ago
    The other side of the question, is why wouldn’t I spend an extra $600 for something that I’m going to use everyday that can easily last for 5 years?
prepend 8y ago
I have frustrations with Mac and really what I want is a good Unix laptop for my work stuff. Any games that can run are a bonus. I’ve tried Linux for 20 years and still have hope. Windows 10 is my org’s basic workstation deployment so I have something that sits on my desk for email and hr forms and stuff. It’s a horrible experience as it’s slow, needs admin rights for basic user functions (install apps, change screen saver, set notifications, etc). Using windows vms for a few projects showed me that most of these annoyances are actually my org’s configuration, not really flaws of Windows. So now I try windows for my main laptop every year or so and give up because Microsoft’s consumer distributors is too much of a pain to pare down. And some of the configurations I want, I can only get through a business account (office365 planner, excel forms- stuff I use macOS and google forms for). It’s possible to set up what I want, but I have to be a Microsoft admin for myself (time to renew my MCSE cert). Comically, I can get a pirate iso that’s pretty nice, but it’s a hobby to keep it cracked. I hope Microsoft makes their own “pro” line that have a stripped down distro targeted to developers or local root users with their own hardware. Until then, I just bought a Mac book pro this Jan because it’s the best available for me (sadly with only 16GB memory).
settsu 8y ago
> Over the years I upgraded to a MacBook Pro, then the MacBook Pro touchbar and in the middle of that I bought a 27inch iMac. Frankly, the sudden price sensitivity seems odd. Is there something else going on? > With the work I do on photo/video editing and my love for flight simulators... Aye, there’s the rub. > Another reason to bail is the expense in repairs, particularly living in a country where there is no official Apple store. Apple has these machines made so that if something breaks you are basically fucked and the only choice is to take it to get repaired. Probably the strongest objective statement in the whole post. Until… > If things break on the custom build I am working on then I can easily fix without it costing me a fortune. Except the total cost (price+time) of replacements in a custom build can go UP after just 2–4 years if you didn’t buy into the latest spec for a given component, undercutting the value argument. > Apple once catered to creatives and when I first used a Mac I was amazed by the creative tool suite they had. Additionally, the rest of that paragraph is, contextually, a strawman. ———- I’ve worked on both OSes for 20+ years (graphic design, photo editing, video editing, web development.) Microsoft has closed the gap. So, unfortunately, has Apple. But the view that Windows 10 has changed the game is myopic. Bottom line, the whole Mac vs. PC thing has been tired for well over a decade. The way I think of it is similar to the idea in photography that a great photographer doesn’t require expensive equipment to produce great photographs. Choose the best tools for your craft that you can afford and be deliberate in making the best possible use of them.
randomsearch 8y ago
- Linux for all things technical - coding, sysadmin - Windows for the office: Mail, documents - OS X for a good, imperfect, compromise between the two. Can’t see this changing any time soon. Windows bash etc are an add-on. Linux sure as hell is better than a Mac for geek stuff, but for simple things like email it completely sucks. I’ve spent months recently using a Linux machine for non-work dev. I have tried every email client I could find. I am buying a MacBook Air as soon as apple announce. I’ve been helping someone who works on Windows with tech issues. Not going near it.
- neverminder 8y ago
  If you are thinking about the MB Air, I would also consider a chromebook (like Google Pixelbook). Lately enabled Linux app support makes it best of both worlds.
  - randomsearch 8y ago
    Hadn't consider that, thank you! I will definitely take a look.
wpdev_63 8y ago
If you have a powerful desktop you can run osx in vmware with some less than legal patches. It's not as responsive as a native setup but for ios development, it's enough.
sys_64738 8y ago
Windows 10 on the same hardware as Mac OS X is a revelation. Windows 10 on a Core 2 Duo system is really speedy but Mac OS is very sluggish. In particular, OS X on 2GB is almost grinds to a halt but Win 10 flies. Mac OS X seems to require 2-4x the memory for the same application. E.g. running Firefox.
lproven 8y ago
2 comments: * Only a mug buys Apple kit new. Same as only a mug buys cars or motorbikes new. (Did you know that the word "gullible" isn't in the dictionary?) * Wait 'til he gets a cryptolocker infection. Then we'll see how much he loves Windows.
8fingerlouie 8y ago
I've never been a Windows user. I mean I've used windows at work for close to 2 decades, and i still hate it every bit as much as the first time i started up Windows 3.1. I've been using all sorts of operating systems, from OS/2 in the 90s, to BeOS 4 and 5 (on x86), and Linux (Gnome). Finally i make the switch to Mac around 2005. I've been a Unix user since 1991 (First Linux was Yggdrasil Plug & Play Linux Fall '93). I wanted the beautiful and functional desktop experience of OS X, coupled with the Unix subsystem. Later on i noticed that Mac applications (official and 3rd party) usually have a much more "finished" feeling to them. Even shareware (is that even a thing anymore ?) felt much more complete on OS X. Linux applications had the technical groundwork in place, but as soon as it became graphical, things started to fall apart. And here we are, 13 years later, and i'm thinking about buying a ThinkPad instead as a replacement for my MacBook Pro 13" Retina. My wife recently got one from work, and I'd forgotten how great a decent keyboard is to type on. It's been a few years since i last had that on any laptop. Apple appears to be stuck in a loop where everything must become slimmer, functionality be damned. On the software side OS X is still king. I know evil voices say that eventually OS X will devolve into a an advanced iOS clone, but for now it's very functional, and miles ahead of Gnome on Linux. As for Windows 10... I'll pass. An operating system that pushes out "free" apps along with reporting everything back to Microsoft, and by default shares my WLAN password with "friends of friends", allowing me to opt out by renaming my WLAN. Whoever thought that was a great idea ?
crististm 8y ago
Personal opinion. I've never used MACs before and just two months ago I've been given a brand new 2018 MACBook pro to do work on. Long story short, after giving time to work out differences to Windows and XCFE, I still don't understand what people see in them other than looks: - It crashed Virtualbox while a 200GB VM copied files close to max capacity (10 GB free on host). No RAM problems there - It stuttered the Settings window for close to 10 seconds while doing some sound configs - It does not like and does not show some "nonameish" USB2 flash drives - (My) Safari does not like me setting home page other than apple.com - The keyboard is crazy flat. I don't feel it at all, and can't touch type on it. There is no HOME or END buttons for command line editing. I've attached a UNICOMP for a change - Apple doesn't like non-LLVM compilers and I'm stuck with what homebrew provides. - Virtualbox with Linux has unusable mouse/keyboard after installing the drivers. Ubuntu 14 is the only one that works as it should. - It has only four USB-C and I have a bunch of converters to connect stuff like headphones, keyboard, mouse and eth adapter. Yes, they take up table space. - It is above Windows 10 in terms of interface, and looks nice and pleasant to touch (except keyboard)
- crististm 8y ago
  Yes, the high DPI screen is very good!
Hippocrates 8y ago
"Look at the iMac line in 2018 and the specs, tell me if the value is there." Every time I see one of these posts complaining about the value of Apple machines I want to scream. They are very competitively priced. (one could argue that is a matter of fact, by their success alone) You can compare common "hard specs" about the processor, ram, video card-- and within that narrow field of vision I bet you can find yourself a "better" PC for the price. But try putting a value on these things and see where that lands you: - (decent) Webcam - High-End 5k display (for iMac, or comparable quality display on the laptops) - High-end wireless keyboard/mouse or trackpad - Decent speakers - Metal construction in a (subjectively) attractive and minimalist package - Well designed (e.g. folding, portable, detachable extension) power brick These things more than seal the deal for me, and I am convinced there is no better value out there. Maybe for the photo/video editor one would need to make concessions to afford the extra CPU/GPU/Memory in lieu of some other niceties.
- 8fingerlouie 8y ago
  I'm constantly met with "you can get a just as good PC for half the price", and when i ask them to prove it they usually come up short. They either find some inferior model, or a similarly specced model which ends up costing the same or more. Apple also actively works to improve OS X performance on older hardware. They did with Snow Leopard, and they recently did with Mojave. What other operation systems does that ? for free ? Their support is also seriously great. I have a 27" iMac from 2008 at home, and somewhere around 2012 a manufacturing problem was found in the Seagate drives they originally shipped with, so _4_ years later i could get my harddrive replaced for free. Name me any other hardware manufacturer that does that. The attention to details with Mac builds are out of this world. Or at least it used to be (haven't bought new a mac in 4 years) * Every MacBook can be opened with 1 hand. The counterbalance of the metal body vs the resistance of the hinges is matched. This goes for the 15" as well as the 11" Air. * The sleep light is matched to the frequency of the breath of a sleeping human. Not particularly useful, just fun fact.
typedef_struct 8y ago
Why I Stopped Caring About Desktop OSes - Me, circa 2006
simonh 8y ago
The motivation for me to switch in 2007 was living the virus nightmare on Windows, time machine backups and access to really great photo management and video editing software preinstalled given I’d just had kids. My most recent Mac was a 27” 5k when 4K monitors were on the cusp of being a thing, given the whole Mac was the same price as a high end 4K monitor - just the monitor - at the time. Love fusion drives as well. Those were contingent on the times though. Nowadays there are decent software options on Windows, backups are still a pain but there are decent cloud options, I don’t know. Up to now the Mac has given me things you couldn’t really get on Windows. If that’s not the case when my current max expires I might consider Windows again but it would be a wrench to go back.
amnesiac_200 8y ago
I like both types of PC I think apple decided performance was good enough at some point and judging by how well my wife's mac book air works with imovie they were right.. Meanwhile PCs carried on getting faster.. But only the expensive ones. Windows 10 is OK, it has a nice crash screen I see about once a week. Save work often. And enjoy the adds.
mindcrash 8y ago
Add to the fact that Microsoft now has a hardware line which can keep up with Apple on design, but running circles around its product line regarding features/price. Don't believe me? Go try a Surface Pro, Surface Book and/or Surface Studio. They'll blow your mind.
manicdee 8y ago
What’s driving me away from the Mac ecosystem: Loss of iOS sync from iTunes with no replacement. I used to sync two phones and two iPads through iTunes in order to reduce bandwidth use (Australian internet sucks). I can now use Internet Sharing options, maybe, but I have to plug the iOS device in to the Mac rather than sync over WiFi while the device is charging on my nightstand. Forcing me to use iCloud for iBooks sync, so my 12GB collections of books (E O Wilson’s life on Earth plus dozens of PDFs for things like programming, hardware manuals, standards documents, data sheets) filled the free drive and I get persistent nags about running out of space. Apple basically wants me to rent my library from them. Removal of MagSafe from laptops. It has only saved my laptop a few dozen times over 8 years but it effectively saved me replacing the laptop a few dozen times. Switch to USB-C with no USB-A port. Between removal of ports and removal of MagSafe, there is little incentive for me to upgrade from a 2010 11” MBA to the MacBook. The 13” MBA doesn’t fit in my camera bags. Copying 16GB of photos to USB disks over USB 2 is painful but at least I can do it without extra dongles. iBooks randomly deleting books from my devices. Sure, I can redownload from iCloud or the Apple Bookstore, but only if I have internet connectivity (there’s a reason the books are on the iPad in the first place rather than using a web browser to read stuff). The cost is not a barrier for me. Jony Ives’ fascination with thinness and lack of holes in the chassis is a barrier for me.
djaouen 8y ago
My problem with Windows is that Emacs runs too sluggishly on it.

76 points by AliCollins 8y ago

I have some oldschool hardcore Apple fanboys that did the same in the past couple of years. Who could imagine, 5 to 10 years ago, that such trend would exist today?

jen729w 8y ago
Whoa there, I get called a 'fanboi' (you appear to have mis-spelled it) all the time, and it's because of my unwavering, steadfast, absolutely doesn't-matter-what-they-do loyalty to Apple. I mean, Tim Cook could murder my dog, I literally do not give a shit. You can't go calling these weak fools who've switched fanboys. They give us fanbois a bad name! /s

madengr 8y ago

I’m in the same boat. I have an old style Mac Pro. Maybe I can just install an SSD to speed things up, but it’s a slow dog now. Buying a iMac that can’t be fixed really is a horror. This guys failed just after the warranty. There is no excuse for Apple making things like this. https://youtu.be/yKD682dBbSQ https://youtu.be/yKD682dBbSQ

hn_user2 8y ago

There are many reasons to chose Mac or Windows. I would expect an article about why someone switched to be more nuanced than price. I mean price is a valid reason too, but not very insightful.

puranjay 8y ago
I used to balk at the Macbook price. Then I realized I spent nearly 10 hours a day on my laptop, that it was the source of my livelihood, and that I'd lost hours in frustration at the Windows experience. Price makes sense as a complaint for most people, but for professionals whose job depends on their tools, I'd say it is worth it to splurge for a better experience.
copperx 8y ago
Of price is the only reason, then it would make sense to build a Hackintosh. It is not a lot of work if you pick the parts correctly from the beginning. Price is not the only factor for me, so I built a custom Linux desktop. It is much more ergonomic than a Mac for software development.
lmilcin 8y ago
I agree, price is very subjective. When your machine is your main work tool and you are paid reasonably well the cost of it becomes pretty much insignificant. What is important is how well it suits your needs. I had some stability problems with my laptop and I just bought new one and gave the old one away to family because the financial loss it was causing me was on the order of the price of new one. I would prefer to listen to what kind of problems the author had that would prompt him to switch to Windows and how it affected his life/work positively instead of just complaining that the price is too high.

circles_for-day 8y ago

People have written this article for 25 years. I think it’s surprising they keep doing it.

pjmlp 8y ago
If Apple had not had successes like iPod and iPhone, there wasn't much left to write about.

tyingq 8y ago

I believe Mac is around 9% of revenue for Apple now. And maybe at lower margins than other products. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they tweaked iOS into providing a mediocre desktop/laptop variant and dropped MacOS altogether.

velobro 8y ago

Just another run off the mill "I'm not getting another mac" complaint article. 1) Introduce myself by explaining how emotionally attached I was to the first Macs I bought 2) Complain about price 3) Complain about price some more 4) Did I mention price? 5) Windows has caught up to MacOS (which assumes Mac was ever ahead of Windows to begin with) 6) I'm an "x", and I do "y". I can do "y" just as well on Windows 7) Since I can "y" on Windows, let me bring up again how Macs are expensive and how I shouldn't have to drop that kinda of money for one

lprd 8y ago
Yep, complaining about Apple is so trendy these days.
- JustSomeNobody 8y ago
  Isn't that telling in some ways though? Apple has made some wrong steps lately, in some people's eyes. Will there eventually be enough people changing to make Apple get concerned? We'll have to wait and see.
  - sbuk 8y ago
    I'd argue that they're no different in all honesty. It's taken them a while, but the likes of Lenovo and Dell have upped their game, so what were once niggles with Apple's offereings appear worse. I've been an Apple user for close to 30 years and the issues we're seeing are nothing in comparison to the Performa days. As for removing and changing ports etc., they've always done it. Long may it continue as it more often than not forces industry changes for the better.
  - Nerdfest 8y ago
    People won't abandon Apple in droves unless the media start trashing them to the same degree they've been praising them. They've effectively given Apple billions in free advertising over the years, so I'd guess it would take a lot of trashing.
jmuguy 8y ago

have_faith 8y ago

I use MacOS and Windows at home. I want to switch to Windows exclusively just so I can have more control over the hardware but using my windows machine for the occasional gaming gives me enough reasons not to want to switch completely. No standout problems, it's death by a thousand cuts.

LaGrange 8y ago
The incompatibility between the Windows and *nix filesystems is doing that to me. Running Vagrant or Docker based development on Windows turns quickly to nightmare, not because the tools are bad, but because mapping your dev directory to the vm side is non-trivial. I've tried the linux subsystem, but the result was also disappointing. The one way I could see it working would be if I switched back from VS Code to vim, and use that inside the linux subsystem. Which means that a Microsoft product is keeping me on the Mac right now.
- WordSkill 8y ago
  There is a Linux version of VS Code.

edoo 8y ago

I've been on a linux desktop for several years now. I use a VM for any windows dev I have to do. I should have made the switch sooner. Consider that instead of windows.

Tade0 8y ago
I switched from Windows to Linux after a certain update was happy to lock me out of my account. Only thing I miss really is the battery life.
- sofaofthedamned 8y ago
  Strangely on my 6 month old Lenovo X1 Carbon Thinkpad I have better battery on Fedora 28 than on Windows 10. I think maybe Windows updates are part of the reason, the fans go mad when there's a WU process running, I don't think i've ever heard the fan going off under Linux. Workloads aren't massive - on both platforms i've probably 50% Firefox, 30% VSCode, 20% SSH. I rarely need to boot into Windows bar 2 apps. However the update process is so unbearable I make sure to login once a week just to make sure major updates are done as i've been stuck before trying to login but WU spends 15 minutes finalising some update. Can't believe they made update management worse under W10, it's easiest the best bit about Linux when I show newbies.
szemet 8y ago
I'm using Linux on desktop for more then 10 years now. I guess the main reason is that after a few years you just can't leave it - due to the IKEA effect ;) (same with using Emacs) And even if the desktop situation gets worse (so you have to fix something) you just bond more: Catch-22... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IKEA_effect
- beatgammit 8y ago
  Huh, I didn't realize that was a thing. My wife and I continue to buy unassembled products because: - price - we like assembling stuff - our sedan is enough to buy furniture - cheaper, unassembled furniture presents less commitment We've replaced Ikea furniture without any attachment issues that I can detect other than the sunk cost fallacy, but that seems to be more prevalent in our more expensive purchases. I didn't realize that so many people because attached to Ikea stuff.

wc_cs 8y ago

I only bought a Mac because I like the experience and unix utilities for programming. I still use Windows when I want to game on PC. Presumably this is the case for a lot of developers?

sys_64738 8y ago
Windows Subsystem for Linux provides this natively now. It is very, very effective.
beatgammit 8y ago
Have you tried Steam Play? It has worked quite well for me on Linux, and I know Proton works on macOS (not sure if you still have to build from source), but it could be enough to get you away from dual booting. I dual boot Windows and Linux, but since I default to Linux, I find myself choosing to do stuff on Linux instead of rebooting (even though rebooting takes ~10s). Only rarely do I get a hankering for a Windows-only game. I wonder if Valve's initiative will get enough games to work that people increasingly switch to Linux/macOS for gaming.

m_mueller 8y ago

I've done it since this summer, going from a 2012 rMBP to a near-maxed out Thinkpad 480s (1 TB SSD, 24GB RAM for USD 2300? hell yeah..). Let me tell you though that as a mac user going to windows 10 you give up much more than a bit of polish - it's really cutting into your productivity. Just one tiny (but anger inducing) example: You can have either Windows Defender or a hangup-free Windows Explorer, but not both (and I'm talking hangups that sometimes can leave you waiting for minutes until you see your files). To sum it all up, Windows is (a) way way less responsive to UI inputs and (b) way way less consistent how to get things done, but you can certainly get things done. (a) means a constant but small tax on productivity, (b) means that you waste a lot of time initially until you've figured out all the edge cases. Whether or not this all justifies the Apple tax, everyone (or their organisation) has to decide, but let me just give this warning as a power user / software dev who did the transition.

WhompingWindows 8y ago
Every time you switch working environments, you'll incur a large loss of productivity to not knowing the UI tricks, shortcuts, and the edge cases. If you use the products similarly, though, you should build muscle-memory and productivity enhancements over the many month time-frame. I've used 3 different OS and this is how it's worked for me each time I transitioned.
- m_mueller 8y ago
  Yes, hence the loss I categorized under (b). (a) still incurs though, no matter how long you've been using Windows.
verinus 8y ago
strange. I think something else is causing your issues. I am running Win 10 with Defender for years without trouble. UI input lags are also very strange and not a Windows phenomena.
- m_mueller 8y ago
  Judging by a previous discussion [1] I don't think I'm alone with these issues. It doesn't happen every time but it happens regularly and for almost random durations. Plus Windows in general just isn't that responsive, just take the start menu as an example and compare with almost any UI interaction on macOS. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18191622 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18191622

corobo 8y ago

The price, to save you a click

Severian 8y ago

Louis Rossmann, a well known advocate for right-to-repair and a repair shop owner has a lot to say about Apple's build quality. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8 His videos are a great rabbit hole to go down, if you are interested in laptop repair methods. He knows his stuff.

S_A_P 8y ago

Serious question- is this a famous photographer or otherwise celebrity? I have no idea. I fully support anyone using the computer that works best for them. I even concede that Apple is not making their best stuff right now. I don’t understand why people write these types of essays. Are they trying to convince others to make the same decision? Are they looking for validation? I can see how this comes across as snark but I really don’t understand the motivation.

ubercow13 8y ago
People define themselves by what they buy. That's part of consumerism. Articles like this are just people expressing themselves.

amacbride 8y ago

I think the other critiques of is article are on point, but there was one quote that did resonate with me (as an Apple user and developer since the ][ ): “Seriously Apple, what is going on with the QA department there?”

vetinari 8y ago
> “Seriously Apple, what is going on with the QA department there?” Oh boy, he is in for a surprise on the Microsoft side of the fence...

carlosrdrz 8y ago

For me it's been the opposite, actually. I use Mac, Windows 10 and Ubuntu for different use cases, and I keep finding Mac more appealing. I have to work around Ubuntu to make some stuff work sometimes. I really like Windows 10, but I have issues occasionally as well. With OS X, most of the stuff I try to do just work. A few years back, I'd prefer to buy my own hardware, build my own PC and run Windows to save some cash and have a powerful PC. I would need to work a bit to make it work, sure, but I'd save some money. Now, I'd rather get an Mac, which is more expensive, but for which I have to worry about much fewer hardware and software issues. I wonder if getting one of those Microsoft Surface Laptops would give me a similar experience with Windows 10, though.

puranjay 8y ago

I'll wait for the next piece in the series where the author trashes Windows and switches back to Mac. Because Windows 10 is absolutely broken.

scarface74 8y ago

As far as price, I was looking into getting a 5K iMac in a year specifically because of the price. It doesn’t seem like anyone sells a 5K monitor anymore except for LG and those go for $1300. $2300 for a decently equipped iMac 5K (16GB of RAM, 256GB SSD) is not bad.

lallysingh 8y ago
Note that you can pick up a pretty well equipped pc for $1K and can upgrade/cannibalize that total (PC/display) investment for many years.
- scarface74 8y ago
  Of course no one can predict the future, but seeing that until last month I was running my Plex Server on a 2009 era Core 2 Duo 2.66Ghz running Windows 10 with 8GB of RAM and in day to day use, I couldn’t tell any performance difference between that and a newer computer except for the spinning hard drive. Computers just aren’t becoming obsolete as fast as they use to. I should be able to get at least 5 years out of it as a primary computer and even longer as a secondary computer. These are the specs of a late 2012 iMac. https://support.apple.com/kb/sp667?locale=en_US https://support.apple.com/kb/sp667?locale=en_US This would be a perfectly usable development machine.
gruez 8y ago
I don't get this line of logic (if you want to get a comparable Linux/windows laptop with retinia/5k display, it will cost you just as much as a Mac, so macs are pretty reasonably priced) when justifying Mac purchases. why are you so dead set on getting a 5k display when you can get a comparable 4k display for $600? is the 25% increase in pixel density really that important?
- scarface74 8y ago
  The other side of the question, is why wouldn’t I spend an extra $600 for something that I’m going to use everyday that can easily last for 5 years?

prepend 8y ago

I have frustrations with Mac and really what I want is a good Unix laptop for my work stuff. Any games that can run are a bonus. I’ve tried Linux for 20 years and still have hope. Windows 10 is my org’s basic workstation deployment so I have something that sits on my desk for email and hr forms and stuff. It’s a horrible experience as it’s slow, needs admin rights for basic user functions (install apps, change screen saver, set notifications, etc). Using windows vms for a few projects showed me that most of these annoyances are actually my org’s configuration, not really flaws of Windows. So now I try windows for my main laptop every year or so and give up because Microsoft’s consumer distributors is too much of a pain to pare down. And some of the configurations I want, I can only get through a business account (office365 planner, excel forms- stuff I use macOS and google forms for). It’s possible to set up what I want, but I have to be a Microsoft admin for myself (time to renew my MCSE cert). Comically, I can get a pirate iso that’s pretty nice, but it’s a hobby to keep it cracked. I hope Microsoft makes their own “pro” line that have a stripped down distro targeted to developers or local root users with their own hardware. Until then, I just bought a Mac book pro this Jan because it’s the best available for me (sadly with only 16GB memory).

settsu 8y ago

> Over the years I upgraded to a MacBook Pro, then the MacBook Pro touchbar and in the middle of that I bought a 27inch iMac. Frankly, the sudden price sensitivity seems odd. Is there something else going on? > With the work I do on photo/video editing and my love for flight simulators... Aye, there’s the rub. > Another reason to bail is the expense in repairs, particularly living in a country where there is no official Apple store. Apple has these machines made so that if something breaks you are basically fucked and the only choice is to take it to get repaired. Probably the strongest objective statement in the whole post. Until… > If things break on the custom build I am working on then I can easily fix without it costing me a fortune. Except the total cost (price+time) of replacements in a custom build can go UP after just 2–4 years if you didn’t buy into the latest spec for a given component, undercutting the value argument. > Apple once catered to creatives and when I first used a Mac I was amazed by the creative tool suite they had. Additionally, the rest of that paragraph is, contextually, a strawman. ———- I’ve worked on both OSes for 20+ years (graphic design, photo editing, video editing, web development.) Microsoft has closed the gap. So, unfortunately, has Apple. But the view that Windows 10 has changed the game is myopic. Bottom line, the whole Mac vs. PC thing has been tired for well over a decade. The way I think of it is similar to the idea in photography that a great photographer doesn’t require expensive equipment to produce great photographs. Choose the best tools for your craft that you can afford and be deliberate in making the best possible use of them.

randomsearch 8y ago

- Linux for all things technical - coding, sysadmin - Windows for the office: Mail, documents - OS X for a good, imperfect, compromise between the two. Can’t see this changing any time soon. Windows bash etc are an add-on. Linux sure as hell is better than a Mac for geek stuff, but for simple things like email it completely sucks. I’ve spent months recently using a Linux machine for non-work dev. I have tried every email client I could find. I am buying a MacBook Air as soon as apple announce. I’ve been helping someone who works on Windows with tech issues. Not going near it.

neverminder 8y ago
If you are thinking about the MB Air, I would also consider a chromebook (like Google Pixelbook). Lately enabled Linux app support makes it best of both worlds.
- randomsearch 8y ago
  Hadn't consider that, thank you! I will definitely take a look.

wpdev_63 8y ago

If you have a powerful desktop you can run osx in vmware with some less than legal patches. It's not as responsive as a native setup but for ios development, it's enough.

sys_64738 8y ago

Windows 10 on the same hardware as Mac OS X is a revelation. Windows 10 on a Core 2 Duo system is really speedy but Mac OS is very sluggish. In particular, OS X on 2GB is almost grinds to a halt but Win 10 flies. Mac OS X seems to require 2-4x the memory for the same application. E.g. running Firefox.

lproven 8y ago

2 comments: * Only a mug buys Apple kit new. Same as only a mug buys cars or motorbikes new. (Did you know that the word "gullible" isn't in the dictionary?) * Wait 'til he gets a cryptolocker infection. Then we'll see how much he loves Windows.

8fingerlouie 8y ago

I've never been a Windows user. I mean I've used windows at work for close to 2 decades, and i still hate it every bit as much as the first time i started up Windows 3.1. I've been using all sorts of operating systems, from OS/2 in the 90s, to BeOS 4 and 5 (on x86), and Linux (Gnome). Finally i make the switch to Mac around 2005. I've been a Unix user since 1991 (First Linux was Yggdrasil Plug & Play Linux Fall '93). I wanted the beautiful and functional desktop experience of OS X, coupled with the Unix subsystem. Later on i noticed that Mac applications (official and 3rd party) usually have a much more "finished" feeling to them. Even shareware (is that even a thing anymore ?) felt much more complete on OS X. Linux applications had the technical groundwork in place, but as soon as it became graphical, things started to fall apart. And here we are, 13 years later, and i'm thinking about buying a ThinkPad instead as a replacement for my MacBook Pro 13" Retina. My wife recently got one from work, and I'd forgotten how great a decent keyboard is to type on. It's been a few years since i last had that on any laptop. Apple appears to be stuck in a loop where everything must become slimmer, functionality be damned. On the software side OS X is still king. I know evil voices say that eventually OS X will devolve into a an advanced iOS clone, but for now it's very functional, and miles ahead of Gnome on Linux. As for Windows 10... I'll pass. An operating system that pushes out "free" apps along with reporting everything back to Microsoft, and by default shares my WLAN password with "friends of friends", allowing me to opt out by renaming my WLAN. Whoever thought that was a great idea ?

crististm 8y ago

Personal opinion. I've never used MACs before and just two months ago I've been given a brand new 2018 MACBook pro to do work on. Long story short, after giving time to work out differences to Windows and XCFE, I still don't understand what people see in them other than looks: - It crashed Virtualbox while a 200GB VM copied files close to max capacity (10 GB free on host). No RAM problems there - It stuttered the Settings window for close to 10 seconds while doing some sound configs - It does not like and does not show some "nonameish" USB2 flash drives - (My) Safari does not like me setting home page other than apple.com - The keyboard is crazy flat. I don't feel it at all, and can't touch type on it. There is no HOME or END buttons for command line editing. I've attached a UNICOMP for a change - Apple doesn't like non-LLVM compilers and I'm stuck with what homebrew provides. - Virtualbox with Linux has unusable mouse/keyboard after installing the drivers. Ubuntu 14 is the only one that works as it should. - It has only four USB-C and I have a bunch of converters to connect stuff like headphones, keyboard, mouse and eth adapter. Yes, they take up table space. - It is above Windows 10 in terms of interface, and looks nice and pleasant to touch (except keyboard)

crististm 8y ago
Yes, the high DPI screen is very good!

Hippocrates 8y ago

"Look at the iMac line in 2018 and the specs, tell me if the value is there." Every time I see one of these posts complaining about the value of Apple machines I want to scream. They are very competitively priced. (one could argue that is a matter of fact, by their success alone) You can compare common "hard specs" about the processor, ram, video card-- and within that narrow field of vision I bet you can find yourself a "better" PC for the price. But try putting a value on these things and see where that lands you: - (decent) Webcam - High-End 5k display (for iMac, or comparable quality display on the laptops) - High-end wireless keyboard/mouse or trackpad - Decent speakers - Metal construction in a (subjectively) attractive and minimalist package - Well designed (e.g. folding, portable, detachable extension) power brick These things more than seal the deal for me, and I am convinced there is no better value out there. Maybe for the photo/video editor one would need to make concessions to afford the extra CPU/GPU/Memory in lieu of some other niceties.

8fingerlouie 8y ago
I'm constantly met with "you can get a just as good PC for half the price", and when i ask them to prove it they usually come up short. They either find some inferior model, or a similarly specced model which ends up costing the same or more. Apple also actively works to improve OS X performance on older hardware. They did with Snow Leopard, and they recently did with Mojave. What other operation systems does that ? for free ? Their support is also seriously great. I have a 27" iMac from 2008 at home, and somewhere around 2012 a manufacturing problem was found in the Seagate drives they originally shipped with, so _4_ years later i could get my harddrive replaced for free. Name me any other hardware manufacturer that does that. The attention to details with Mac builds are out of this world. Or at least it used to be (haven't bought new a mac in 4 years) * Every MacBook can be opened with 1 hand. The counterbalance of the metal body vs the resistance of the hinges is matched. This goes for the 15" as well as the 11" Air. * The sleep light is matched to the frequency of the breath of a sleeping human. Not particularly useful, just fun fact.

typedef_struct 8y ago

Why I Stopped Caring About Desktop OSes - Me, circa 2006

simonh 8y ago

The motivation for me to switch in 2007 was living the virus nightmare on Windows, time machine backups and access to really great photo management and video editing software preinstalled given I’d just had kids. My most recent Mac was a 27” 5k when 4K monitors were on the cusp of being a thing, given the whole Mac was the same price as a high end 4K monitor - just the monitor - at the time. Love fusion drives as well. Those were contingent on the times though. Nowadays there are decent software options on Windows, backups are still a pain but there are decent cloud options, I don’t know. Up to now the Mac has given me things you couldn’t really get on Windows. If that’s not the case when my current max expires I might consider Windows again but it would be a wrench to go back.

amnesiac_200 8y ago

I like both types of PC I think apple decided performance was good enough at some point and judging by how well my wife's mac book air works with imovie they were right.. Meanwhile PCs carried on getting faster.. But only the expensive ones. Windows 10 is OK, it has a nice crash screen I see about once a week. Save work often. And enjoy the adds.

mindcrash 8y ago

Add to the fact that Microsoft now has a hardware line which can keep up with Apple on design, but running circles around its product line regarding features/price. Don't believe me? Go try a Surface Pro, Surface Book and/or Surface Studio. They'll blow your mind.

manicdee 8y ago

What’s driving me away from the Mac ecosystem: Loss of iOS sync from iTunes with no replacement. I used to sync two phones and two iPads through iTunes in order to reduce bandwidth use (Australian internet sucks). I can now use Internet Sharing options, maybe, but I have to plug the iOS device in to the Mac rather than sync over WiFi while the device is charging on my nightstand. Forcing me to use iCloud for iBooks sync, so my 12GB collections of books (E O Wilson’s life on Earth plus dozens of PDFs for things like programming, hardware manuals, standards documents, data sheets) filled the free drive and I get persistent nags about running out of space. Apple basically wants me to rent my library from them. Removal of MagSafe from laptops. It has only saved my laptop a few dozen times over 8 years but it effectively saved me replacing the laptop a few dozen times. Switch to USB-C with no USB-A port. Between removal of ports and removal of MagSafe, there is little incentive for me to upgrade from a 2010 11” MBA to the MacBook. The 13” MBA doesn’t fit in my camera bags. Copying 16GB of photos to USB disks over USB 2 is painful but at least I can do it without extra dongles. iBooks randomly deleting books from my devices. Sure, I can redownload from iCloud or the Apple Bookstore, but only if I have internet connectivity (there’s a reason the books are on the iPad in the first place rather than using a web browser to read stuff). The cost is not a barrier for me. Jony Ives’ fascination with thinness and lack of holes in the chassis is a barrier for me.

djaouen 8y ago

My problem with Windows is that Emacs runs too sluggishly on it.