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True, but not fair, to Gates OR to Allen. "After a few years all that passes. Bill and I have always been friends, even through the ups and downs" https://www.t

True, but not fair, to Gates OR to Allen. "After a few years all that passes. Bill and I have always been friends, even through the ups and downs" https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/may/02/paul-allen-microsoft-bill-gates-ideas https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/may/02/paul-alle...

deleted 8y ago
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ProAm 8y ago
I didn't say if it was fair or unfair, it's always the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of Bill Gates and Paul Allen. Similiar to Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs and the Breakout game incident.
- Nomentatus 8y ago
  "No remark without remarkableness" - which makes me curious: what do you think the remarkableness was, if not fairness or unfairness?
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2_listerine_pls 8y ago
Just because the friendship remained, it doesn't make that particular event any better.
- adventured 8y ago
  Had they gone through with it, it certainly would have been despicable. As it was, it was nothing more than a conversation that was hurtful to Allen. You can't indict someone for an action they didn't take, as though they did take it. It's entirely impossible to know if Gates would have gone through with that action. Allen retained his full Microsoft stake and yielded tens of billions of dollars from the Microsoft that Gates, Ballmer and others proceeded to build up in the coming 15-20 years. I suspect there are few here that haven't had insulting conversations about other people. Said negative, rude, belittling things that they later regretted. Hurled a very mean statement in the middle of a fight. Discussed leaving a spouse behind their back. So on and so forth. It's not necessary to excuse the behavior of Gates, it was a crass mistake by a 27 year old. Allen retained his ownership, forgave Gates, and that's that.
  - 2_listerine_pls 8y ago
    > As it was, it was nothing more than a conversation that was hurtful to Allen. Or maybe they didn't do it because got caught?
    - mynameisvlad 8y ago
      Does it matter? The point is that they didn't do it. Yes, it could've happened, nobody is disputing that, and nobody is disputing that it would've been a shitty thing to do. But at the end of the day, it didn't happen. You're arguing a hypothetical and adding even more hypotheticals on top. Nobody will know why it didn't happen, what the motivating factors might have been, but we all know that the conversation took place and then it was dropped. That's what's important.
      - pretendscholar 8y ago
        Yes it matters. It says a lot about someone that they would even entertain the idea of cheating their cancer ridden friend.
        sbuk 8y ago
        Perhaps, once they’d reflected on it, they decided it wasn’t fair, just like you have. It seems as though a few here want to demonise Ballmer and Gates for something they ultimately didn’t do. So they had a conversation about it.
        lmm 8y ago
        You don't think that to have a conversation about maybe doing something blatantly evil, instead of dismissing it out of hand, reflects poorly on someone's character even if the conclusion of that conversation is not to do the evil thing?
        sbuk 8y ago
        Not partituclarly. Evil is planning mass genocide and executing it. Besides, why judge when we only have one side of the story? Demonising people for having thoughts or discussing actions that you personally find distasteful is tyrannical and repressive.
pastor_elm 8y ago
If you ever go into business with a friend, you should anticipate the worst. They're only human. You have to be on your toes from the start, and you can only blame yourself if you get beat or blindsided. At that point, its irrelevant to your friendship. It was just business.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  I hope your friends read this! Sounds like you value money - just business - incomparably more than friendship. Why?!
  - kolleykibber 8y ago
    pastor_elm is spot on. This is something most learn the hard way.
  - coverband 8y ago
    I think you may be misreading the intent. I've also seen several friendships destroyed because of business disagreements. I take the message as "Don't get into business with friends if you value their friendship."
    - yesenadam 8y ago
      Replying also to the other comments: Ah thanks, yeah. I've painfully learnt not to lend/give friends money! It cost me a great friendship. But it wasn't deliberate on their part; I guess I read the GP as saying "Expect your friends to fuck you over, and that's ok/your own fault." I am familiar with the risk of business to friendship, but the GP seemed to be going somewhat further, although it seems ambiguous exactly what they're saying.
  - rectang 8y ago
    > Why?! "I had some money and a friend. I lent my money to my friend. I lost my money... and my friend."
    - 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

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ProAm 8y ago

I didn't say if it was fair or unfair, it's always the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of Bill Gates and Paul Allen. Similiar to Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs and the Breakout game incident.

Nomentatus 8y ago
"No remark without remarkableness" - which makes me curious: what do you think the remarkableness was, if not fairness or unfairness?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

2_listerine_pls 8y ago

Just because the friendship remained, it doesn't make that particular event any better.

adventured 8y ago
Had they gone through with it, it certainly would have been despicable. As it was, it was nothing more than a conversation that was hurtful to Allen. You can't indict someone for an action they didn't take, as though they did take it. It's entirely impossible to know if Gates would have gone through with that action. Allen retained his full Microsoft stake and yielded tens of billions of dollars from the Microsoft that Gates, Ballmer and others proceeded to build up in the coming 15-20 years. I suspect there are few here that haven't had insulting conversations about other people. Said negative, rude, belittling things that they later regretted. Hurled a very mean statement in the middle of a fight. Discussed leaving a spouse behind their back. So on and so forth. It's not necessary to excuse the behavior of Gates, it was a crass mistake by a 27 year old. Allen retained his ownership, forgave Gates, and that's that.
- 2_listerine_pls 8y ago
  > As it was, it was nothing more than a conversation that was hurtful to Allen. Or maybe they didn't do it because got caught?
  - mynameisvlad 8y ago
    Does it matter? The point is that they didn't do it. Yes, it could've happened, nobody is disputing that, and nobody is disputing that it would've been a shitty thing to do. But at the end of the day, it didn't happen. You're arguing a hypothetical and adding even more hypotheticals on top. Nobody will know why it didn't happen, what the motivating factors might have been, but we all know that the conversation took place and then it was dropped. That's what's important.
    - pretendscholar 8y ago
      Yes it matters. It says a lot about someone that they would even entertain the idea of cheating their cancer ridden friend.
      - sbuk 8y ago
        Perhaps, once they’d reflected on it, they decided it wasn’t fair, just like you have. It seems as though a few here want to demonise Ballmer and Gates for something they ultimately didn’t do. So they had a conversation about it.
        lmm 8y ago
        You don't think that to have a conversation about maybe doing something blatantly evil, instead of dismissing it out of hand, reflects poorly on someone's character even if the conclusion of that conversation is not to do the evil thing?
        sbuk 8y ago
        Not partituclarly. Evil is planning mass genocide and executing it. Besides, why judge when we only have one side of the story? Demonising people for having thoughts or discussing actions that you personally find distasteful is tyrannical and repressive.

pastor_elm 8y ago

If you ever go into business with a friend, you should anticipate the worst. They're only human. You have to be on your toes from the start, and you can only blame yourself if you get beat or blindsided. At that point, its irrelevant to your friendship. It was just business.

yesenadam 8y ago
I hope your friends read this! Sounds like you value money - just business - incomparably more than friendship. Why?!
- kolleykibber 8y ago
  pastor_elm is spot on. This is something most learn the hard way.
- coverband 8y ago
  I think you may be misreading the intent. I've also seen several friendships destroyed because of business disagreements. I take the message as "Don't get into business with friends if you value their friendship."
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    Replying also to the other comments: Ah thanks, yeah. I've painfully learnt not to lend/give friends money! It cost me a great friendship. But it wasn't deliberate on their part; I guess I read the GP as saying "Expect your friends to fuck you over, and that's ok/your own fault." I am familiar with the risk of business to friendship, but the GP seemed to be going somewhat further, although it seems ambiguous exactly what they're saying.
- rectang 8y ago
  > Why?! "I had some money and a friend. I lent my money to my friend. I lost my money... and my friend."
  - 8y ago