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How I’ve Attracted the First 500 Paid Users for My SaaS
- joncrane 8y agoThis seems like good advice to maximize personal satisfaction on a side project. Many of the tidbits are the exact opposite of advice for startups that are trying to maximize value.
- weliketocode 8y agoWhich tidbits did you feel that way about? It seemed to me that most of the advice is pretty in-line with that given to value-maximizing startups.
- joncrane 8y agoThe "ignore your competitors" bit is the part I struggled with the most.
- rrcaptain 8y agoIsn't that more telling about the nature of "value" than the advice though?
- citrablue 8y agoI disagree with your classification, although I suspect we agree in general. While these tidbits could minimize startup revenue, they don't minimize "value provided to customers". And it's good advice for anyone who wants to provide a valuable service or technology at a good price. Some folks want to build a company with the most users. Some folks want to maximize revenue. Some folks want to maximize profit. An entirely different segment of service providers wants to maximize the value they provide their customers.
- danmaz74 8y agoMaximise value as in maximise growth? Then, yes
- briandear 8y agoI love the enthusiasm of the founder. It’s so refreshing and motivating. I wish him further success and hope to read another post when he hits $10000 MRR.
- cmmartin 8y agoAmen to this... "You will get many ups and downs on your way — A new feature might have a significant bug you haven’t noticed and it would cause some customers to quit. I recently experienced that but I would think it was a necessary process to make the app more reliable. You are not perfect. So is your product. Finish your work and see how it goes. Don’t be afraid."
- olliej 8y agoI dislike the “costs me $5 a month”. Seriously, part of the cost of running a service is your own income - don’t discount the value of your own labour
- foota 8y agoThat's the pricing.
- chrisweekly 8y agoUnclear whether you're joking. OP is charging $5/mo to those 5000 users.
- happy-go-lucky 8y agoOP says they have 600 users now, not 5000.
- devoply 8y agoImagine if he continues to grow he will have 5k users and would be making 250k.
- chrisweekly 8y agoright, was typo meant 500
- dquigley 8y agoI understand the confusion, because I had to read the title twice to understand what was meant by the $5/month as well. It isn't necessarily wrong, just potentially confusing if you read it the wrong way.
- olliej 8y agoYeah I totally read it wrong :)
- sdrothrock 8y agoIf the author is reading this, I'm curious about whether you've considered targeting Japanese users and why or why not. :)
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- craftzdog 8y agoHi, the author of Inkdrop here. There're already many Japanese users because I've also wrote blog posts in Japanese. Here is a Japanese version of this article: https://blog.craftz.dog/how-ive-attracted-the-first-500-paid-users-for-my-saas-that-costs-5-mo-4111ddad9f50 https://blog.craftz.dog/how-ive-attracted-the-first-500-paid... Cheers
- sdrothrock 8y agoOh, thank you! I was a bit confused since I went to your site and couldn't find any evidence of a Japanese version. :) If you have the time, would you mind elaborating a bit more on the following? I'm always curious (as an American living in Japan) about small/independent developers who split across two or more cultures. 1. How much of your userbase is Japanese vs English-speaking? 2. Do you find that the goals the users work toward are different based on the language/culture? Are there any things that are language-specific? 3. Do you find that one set of users is stickier than the other?
- craftzdog 8y ago1. About 50%-50% 2. Since my app target is developers, their goals look basically same. But some users are designers, directors, etc. Japanese tend to tweet their thoughts on Twitter and English speakers tend to post their thoughts on our forum or to email me. In a nutshell, Japanese make indirect reactions on social media and English speakers tell me directly. 3. Those who have too many suggestions usually quit using my app soon in my experience because their problems are different from mine. You don't have to please everyone.
- smdz 8y agoThis is amazing! I've built more than a couple of product prototypes equivalent to the size of this app and ended up with the questions "what is the USP other than cheaper pricing? what is your marketing budget?" - And was discouraged to a point where I never did launch the product to acquire paid users. And did launch it for free and has decent number of users. But it is not fun working on a product that does not pay. This is so fresh and encouraging advice here. Even if it was paying me just half of my freelance pay for a decent period - I would call it a success.
- blinky1456 8y agoFor me, one aspect is releasing a useful app, and users immediately screaming 'why isn't it free?' + 'anyone could have made that, I don't see why you should charge'. And losing all momentum on launch. People have been spoiled by large companies releasing apps that costs tens of thousands/hundreds of thousands to develop. And have huge server and maintenance costs for free(lets just say you don't pay with money..)
- bttf 8y agoThis is an interesting perspective on running a SaaS and pricing it for slower paced growth. On the Inkdrop pricing page, it reads: >We would like to provide good, quick and warm user support. If we got a lot of users, we won't be able to support them all. Frankly admitting that they want to pace user growth for better quality service is both brutally honest, and enticing. I hope more bootstrapped SaaS companies achieve this equilibrium where pricing is premium, growth is paced, and quality is high.
- zawerf 8y agoMaybe a little bit too paced? According to the first graph, it's $30,000 in total sales over the last 2 years which forced him to continue freelancing as his main income. This post is basically announcing ramen profitability. (Of course it's still a great achievement to turn any profit on a side project, let alone supplant his main income)
- gleenn 8y agoWhile you're right that $30K isn't hugely profitable, his growth curve looks good, especially at the very end. He could probably either reduce his focus and cash $1300 in profit extra a month or continue and it appears that his product could keep trending up for a while. That's a really sweet position to be in IMHO
- unixhero 8y agoHaha thank you for that. I have been in the market for a new term, for what to say to people what my goal is with my side projects. Up until now I have been saying, it's not making much, it's all supposed to be for some "beer money"... Welp. I stopped drinking. Now I can call it ramen money instead. Cool! (I do dropshipping of computer hardware, specializing in computerchips). And currently building an OS-disk to the enthusiast-market for Apple G5 workstations (yes, it's a hyper niche, and will only cover my ramens) :)
- zawerf 8y agoIt's not my terminology: http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html
- iliketosleep 8y agoVery refreshing. Focusing on one's own users instead of being fixated on the competition is something many companies could learn from.
- debaserab2 8y ago> Why Churn Rate is Surprisingly Low Yeah, you're in your first year. Of course churn rate is low.
- fapjacks 8y agoHe's published roadmap posts about his software since December 2016, at least.
- wpietri 8y agoHow do you figure that? He says he launched it 2 years ago, and a pricing page is in the Internet Archive from January 2017: https://web.archive.org/web/20170123082326/https://www.inkdrop.info/pricing https://web.archive.org/web/20170123082326/https://www.inkdr...
- Kaveren 8y ago> "You don’t have to care about competitors. It’s a waste of time. Because you know where to go. You can ignore even if they stole features your product has. Because you are the person who most understands your product, how it works and why it works." I enjoyed this article, but this bit I'm not entirely convinced by. The saying does go that competition leads to innovation. Instagram Stories were a great business move, but if they hadn't paid attention to Snapchat, would they have come up with it? I understand that this article was written about a niche product, but I think it still applies. On the other hand, I really like the bit about the communication with your customer-base. In game development particular, but also in all sorts of software I use, I see so many developers who don't interact with customers or improve their product based on feedback. Customer feedback for users that aren't enterprise has to be the ultimate form of support. If I can provide the same service as a competitor to you, but I'll listen to your feedback, respond to it, and potentially act on it, I think I have a big advantage.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- baxtr 8y agoI think this part is about focus. Sure, it may pay off to watch your competition but what’s the price for it? Ignoring other things? I interpret it as: most of the times just do what you wanted to do and ignore your competition
- diminoten 8y agoI don't think they're saying "You don't have to care about your competitors." I think they're saying, "You don't have to care about your competitors [to attract the first 500 paid users for your SaaS]."
- bdcravens 8y agoInstagram can experiment in a way that a single-founder with $3k MRR cannot.
- xmly 8y agoIgnore the competitions, does not mean you do not know the competitions. Follow them and know what they are doing. But do not adjust your plan easily for just what your competitors are doing.
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- JTenerife 8y agoI wonder what would be a good approach to scale support. It seems that the creator is currently handling all inqueries by himself. @Takuya: How many support requests do you get per day?
- craftzdog 8y ago0 or 1 now. It's scalable.
- enraged_camel 8y agoRoadmaps are really important to me. When I'm evaluating a new service, I first look for a published roadmap. Specifically: * When the next version will be released (specific date, not just bullshit stuff like "Q1 2019") * What new features it will have If I can't find anything like this, I'm less likely to sign up.
- jakobegger 8y agoBut why is it important what features the app will have in the future? Why not focus on what it does right now?
- enraged_camel 8y agoBecause I want to use services that are actively being developed and improved, where the development team has a clear vision and direction for the product and are willing to commit to it publicly.
- fenesiistvan 8y agoGood products often doesn't have exact roadmaps. The new version will be published when ready. Q1 2019 is fine for me in roadmaps.
- tonyedgecombe 8y agoI never post roadmaps, even with the best intentions they are a fiction. You end up railroading yourself into features that don't look so good on closer examination. It also creates tons of opportunity for conflict with your customers and a miserable experience for yourself.
- Flimm 8y agoI prefer looking at a changelog. Who knows how accurate a roadmap is?
- keithnz 8y agoI think I'm too cynical to do these kinds of side businesses... I look at this and am confused why anyone is paying for it. I often find it hard to step away from what I would do compared to what others will do.
- GoToRO 8y agoPeople pay also for convenience. Also, if you are really busy making $$$ a month then there is no problem to pay 5$ a month for something that is saving you some time, some stress and so on. I was thinking the same as you...
- albertgoeswoof 8y agoWell what’s the alternative to taking good notes for a developer? Markdown on git? You still have to pay for github if you want it to be private and you have the hassle of setting it up. $5/month is irrelevant if you use it a couple of times a day
- ttty 8y agoBitbucket for free?
- Svexar 8y agoBookStack: https://www.bookstackapp.com/ https://www.bookstackapp.com/
- albertgoeswoof 8y agoBut I have to install this and run my own server- the cheapest one I can find is 5usd/month, so I’m paying for that and the time to set it up + maintain it. Inkdrop still looks like better value for money
- Svexar 8y agoBookStack is free. You can add it to a server you already have or host it locally.
- rawoke083600 8y agoI hope the author sees this as "good feedback".. My notes taking system is terrible (lots of TXT files on my desktop) :/ Its terrible and only slightly better than NOT having a system at all. So I downloaded your app(congrats looks very polished) but maybe I just had too many coffees but I couldn't figure out how to make a new note within 30 seconds or 15 clicks :S. Maybe I'm just dumb? I would put first and foremost how to make a note the very very first thing(and only) thing when I open the app. I don't want to see ALL the apps features.. I just want to first see how the ONE THING i need this app todo. Make a note :) Just my 2cents ! Congrats again on having a successful app
- brucen 8y agoHave you tried Google Keep? It's quite good for keeping random notes and sync'd across devices.
- rawoke083600 8y agoNope - goign to give it a go ! :)
- efreak 8y agoTry notepad++ or other workspace-supporting software if you already have such installed. It doesn't have to be primarily aimed at note-taking to work. This method doesn't help with sync, multi-device, etc tho.
- GoToRO 8y ago3 desktop apps, and 2 mobile apps. Electron?
- craftzdog 8y agoElectron and React Native
- noname120 8y agoThis story strikes me as (at least partly) survivorship bias. It's great that they were able to acquire 600 paid customers without advertizing their product on blogs, and ignoring their competitors. I don't have hard numbers to back me up, but I doubt that this is a successful strategy in general. This story is a data point that proves that it's possible, not that this gives you a better (or even good) chance at succeeding. Hell, I would wager that greater exposure would have led to much higher sales.
- rock_hard 8y agoIgnoring competitors is generally a good strategy as a early stage team, specially in immature markets. If you focus too much on what the competition is doing you tend to end up with a local maximum otherwise. Agree on your point about ads though
- danmaz74 8y agoIt all depends on what you definition of success is. If your definition is creating a high-growth technically innovative business (what many would say a tech startup is), then this for sure isn't a good way to achieve success. If your definition is creating on the side a sustainable business based on tech (which other people would also define as "startup"), then this advice is generally very good.
- bszupnick 8y agoDo you think there's a philosophical difference that the author did here? They specifically write "Don’t hurry. It’s not a startup rushing to an exit.". The lack of pressure and the slow cultivation was something that struck me in this article, as opposed to the stereotypical rush of the startup lifecycle.
- MrEfficiency 8y agoThe whole 'Lean Startup' trend was such a feel good gimmick. Sure if you arent sure about your product and havent done any market tests, a minimum viable product is fine. However, I had/have a service that was already popular and my circle of friends were obsessed with MVP and Lean Startup. They pressured me and when I began mainstream marketing the response was that my service was low quality. Those people were wrong, but minimal HTML/css bugs was all it took for people to question me.
- danmaz74 8y agoMeta comment: I miss the time when there were many more stories like this one on HN. I'm sure that one reason why there aren't as many now is that lots of low hanging fruits for niche tech/online/mobile businesses have already been picked, as many people write from time to time, but I also think another reason is that the stories of hypergrowth and unicorns have raised expectations and standards too much. Incredibly high salaries for engineers in SV helped there too (what? 30k? that's nothing...). But let's not forget that trying to win the big lottery is going to make most people miserable. Creating a sustainable online business - something like what 37signals promotes, or even just a lifestyle one - can be a perfectly legitimate goal, something we should celebrate more IMHO. And the world is still full of niches which can greatly benefit from the thoughtful application of technology and sustain that kind of businesses. EDIT: clarified language
- HiroshiSan 8y agoA lot of these types of posts seemed to have moved to indiehackers.com
- danmaz74 8y agoInteresting... thanks for the link!
- kkarakk 8y agowow you aren't wrong[1]. they even have a sort by top capability right out of the gate which you don't get on hackernews. i guess i'm shifting there from now on, seeing as how lots of highly upvoted hackernews submissions are essentially fluff/self promotion nowadays [1]https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/i-launched-finally-heres-what-i-learned-in-24-hours-683aa2b7e0 https://www.indiehackers.com/forum/i-launched-finally-heres-...
- ganeshkumar_sr 8y ago>You don’t have to care about competitors. It’s a waste of time. Because you know where to go. I agree with this statement,because as a small developer if you compare you and your product with big companies you will get lost in a short span of time."Good customer support will differentiate you from the big players" is one more great point in your article.
- ryanwaggoner 8y agoGreat article. I run a small SaaS on the side that’s about this size and a lot of these points resonate with me. A few thoughts: 1. 100% agree with ignoring competitors unless you’re in a field with heavy network effects. Most niches can have many successful companies, and worrying about your competition will add a lot of stress and encourage you to build things your users don’t care much about. Listen to your customers! 2. Churn is probably low partly because the pricing is low. I charge 10x - 20x this much and my post-trial churn is more like 10% (working on reducing). People are a lot more motivated to cancel if it’s costing them $1000 per year. 3. I should really, really do the support forum thing. 4. Strongly disagree on roadmaps. There are much better ways to make people feel like the service is alive and maintained enough to feel comfortable signing up. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve added unnecessary guilt and stress to my life by promising some future feature to users and then priorities or timing changed. Stupid to put yourself in a box like that for no reason.
- mywacaday 8y agoJust so you know the trial is causing a symantec endpoint protection alert in a corporate environment. I've tweeted you a screenshot Best of luck
- stevekemp 8y agoFor me the trial download just resulted in an error about shared libraries.
- agentPrefect 8y agoThis reminded me a lot of how DHH described their thinking (paraphrasing A LOT): other people don't have to have a bad product for yours to be successful. Good article!
- Preshy 8y agodo you know the difference between Samsung S9 & S9+? Don't let anyone fool you. It's all in here https://momsall.com/major-differences-and-similarities-between-samsung-s9-and-s9-plus/ https://momsall.com/major-differences-and-similarities-betwe...
- PerilousD 8y agoSite comes up as blocked by Malwarebytes - so I didnt override and continue on. Just saying....
- gregwebs 8y agoOn the product: this seems like SimpleNote except that it is actually being developed with features. I have been happy enough with SimpleNote for over a year now, but trying this out now as an upgrade. For both of these I like that its just markdown files that I can export if I decide to use something else. Edit: there is a plugin for vim keybindings, and a solarized light theme. I am sold!
- adamqureshi 8y agoI loved this story i can use this info RIGHT now for what im doing. A tesla inventory tracker. MVP is up and running next problem is how much to charge for it,I am using FB / google log in and thinking now maybe just go with the mobile # log in. this article helps a lot. I will test the subscription model $4.99/m pay as you go. Cancel anytime. Thanks! very useful!
- usaphp 8y agoIsn’t one of your site’s main description points is that you don’t charge people until they sold their car, unlike other sites. Wouldn’t it be unfair to advertise one thing first and then change it later?
- adamqureshi 8y agoYup. I updated the copy. NO UPFRONT FEES. The application is another thing im building to track tesla inventory and charge a subscription.
- eggie5 8y agoI like to use Typora w/ iCloud
- megaman8 8y agois it crazy that i'm a web dev with more than 10 years and have never heard the term "markdown" before?
- zellyn 8y agoA little bit crazy, yes. It's the markup format on Github, on Stack Overflow, and for many other sites and tools.
- nvarsj 8y agoInkdrop looks seriously good. I may consider switching from my tiddlywiki+orgmode setup (it's painful, but haven't found anything better that is cross-platform). My only concern is if Inkdrop were to shut down in the future. Does it support exporting my data?
- amorphous 8y agoNot meant as trolling. I'm refreshingly surprised that in 2018 it is still possible to make money with a subscription-based Markdown editor. Why would I ever shell out 60 bucks a year if I can pick one of the plethoras of good editors (free or one-time purchase, I use iaWriter for example) and then just sync for free using Dropbox or whatever (and have it encrypted on top of that if I want)? I paid ~30 and I own the editor and have control over my data. And then there's already established competition, e.g Ulysses. Kudos on the success, it can only be good news for anyone trying to run a saas.
- simonebrunozzi 8y agoNeat article, and thanks for sharing. My thoughs as follows: 1) I don't want to pay in perpetuity for the software you have built. It's unfair. (yes, even if you're a single developer and probably a very nice guy). 2) I'm ok to pay for cloud storage, but I want to be able to opt-in and opt-out whenever I want. Almost all software is a subscription now, and this is ruining a lot of things IMHO.