9 ms·

Don't work in the games industry. This is the par story for game companies. Every little detail of this story I saw repeating on loop in a decade of working in

Don't work in the games industry. This is the par story for game companies. Every little detail of this story I saw repeating on loop in a decade of working in games. The artists grabbing assets to stuff into their portfolios before two years of professional work disappears into a black hole, the ppl moving families across country to be laid off months later, the crunch, the over promising, it is all text book. The games industry preys on young ppl who don't know what a healthy work/life balance looks like. The pay is lower because employees are passionate. Passion doesn't pay rent. It doesn't provide stability for your partner and children who all will suffer because you chose to work in games. Your passion will be compromised endlessly by marketing and management who can air drop in and change a game's entire direction in one meeting. Because they saw a Minecraft commercial and their kid responded to it. They'll make you work weekend after weekend to fit their pivot into the original schedule and stop in for an hour to drop off donuts. Oh good, eight hours of work for a donut. Donuts also don't pay rent. They don't fix your marital problems. Games is an industry stuck in a groundhog day loop of misery. This is my warning to anyone who thinks they like games enough to make them. You won't like them after making them. It isn't worth it.

bliblah 8y ago
I honestly wish I could disagree but it's probably the most soul sucking industry out there. Yeah there are great companies but considering that just this year alone there were over 1,000 layoffs [1] in an industry that there are just a handful of large developers / publishers it's hard to get a position where you aren't just churning out gambling apps or one off VR projects for a Big Media Company trying to make a quick buck. The issue is that video games are entertainment and the industry is built off the back of exploited workers that are genuinely passionate but have no resources outside of becoming indie (which is basically rolling the dice) or just using their talents elsewhere. [1]https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-09-27-more-than-1-000-jobs-lost-to-studio-closures-over-the-past-year https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-09-27-more-than-...
- sizzle 8y ago
  I heard doing 3D cgi stuff for movies is a pretty similar situation but worse tend to be worse as they are contract positions out here in LA/Hollywood area.
wheelie_boy 8y ago
Game dev is a meat grinder. While making games is a great way to learn programming, and is a lot of fun, the working conditions make it an untenable career choice for most.
- chii 8y ago
  Only way is to either make it a hobby project, and work a day job that pays well. Or, take the risk and go indie - effectively a lottery ticket.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    Highly recommend against the latter, unless if you’re willing to do it for free. The glut of indie games in the past few years means that the average indie dev will get paid literally pennies per hour or less. Do it for fun if you want, but doing it for the money will lead to heartbreak.
    - sam0x17 8y ago
      Yeah in like a 3 year period it went from under 1000 new indie games on steam to over 7000. Past successful devs like the guy who made Binding of Issac have tried making new games recently that would have done amazingly back in the day, only to see them buried and get next to no attention. The space is now saturated. Indie game dev is now as difficult as publishing an award winning novel.
  - vtange 8y ago
    Lottery tickets don't demand that you wear multiple hats and grind for years. Even if you bought a ticket every day it's probably cheaper than quitting your job and eating into your savings for a chance at an indie moonshot. The hobby project route is pretty much the only way.
- bitL 8y ago
  If you are young, single and healthy, and can work on important parts of a game (engine), do it for 1-2 years, have a blast, ship an AAA game, then escape to more stable FAANG, where you will be a highly paid guru. You can even write a book or two then, documenting your tricks and achievements.
gambiting 8y ago
Just as a counterpoint - I've worked for 4 years now as a programmer at one of the biggest publishers in the industry, and honestly, the work life balance is great, the pay is ok for the region(plus I get decent amount of shares every year), the work is varied, interesting and I like both what I do and people I work with. I think the last time I did overtime was 2 years ago, and even then it was only for a week around launch of the last project(in fact in every studio meeting we are constantly reminded that managers can NOT demand us to work overtime, if they do we need to report it higher up). Normally I get in at 8am, leave by 4pm, never work weekends or anything like that. Plus the usual for EU 25 paid days off(plus the studio is closed christmas to new years), unlimited paid sick leave, private health insurance.....really, it's pretty good. But then again, I am aware that most studios are not like that.
- krinchan 8y ago
  > Plus the usual for EU 25 paid days off Sometimes I really hate living in the US. -_-
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - skrebbel 8y ago
    Obviously we pay for it with lower salaries. Or, well, actually I don't know what US gamedev salaries are like but for other programming jobs, the difference is significant, also outside the SFBA.
- drakonka 8y ago
  Wanted to add my agreement to this; I've been in the industry since 2008. My first experience was really bad...then I moved to the EU. We do still do overtime, not mandated but when you have to ship it happens. Other than that the benefits, paid time off, work/life balance, union representation, etc have been very good in my experience.
- vvanders 8y ago
  Congrats, you've found the 2% of the industry that isn't insane. For many of us who fell into the other 98% the statistics aren't in your favor and some of the bigger publishers(EA, Microsoft) tend to go in ~6 year cycles. Had a friend who worked on Dead Space, which should have been a stable thing. Alas, Visceral isn't around either.
ocschwar 8y ago
I can't even play anymore. I've seen firsthand how the industry treats developers, and I cannot bring myself to send money into the pockets of the fratboy shitheels that run it.
- Ace17 8y ago
  Then, support indie developers and play their games!
- WorldMaker 8y ago
  Consider getting involved with the unionization effort, if you can: https://www.gameworkersunite.org/get-involved https://www.gameworkersunite.org/get-involved
- HBlix 8y ago
  The “upside” is that it’s never been easier to not play AAA games. Between derivative content rehashes yearly, insane microtransaction schemes, content cut into pieces and locked behind multiple season passes and dlc, and the endless busywork “gameplay” designed to maiximize engagement and money over time at the direct expense of fun... fuck it. Look at the new Assassin’s Creed game, which is a reskin of Origins, plus a dozen pages of “buy this shit!” The xp system is rigged to make it a slog and a grind unless you buy “boosts” and it’s a giant map filled with what amount to chores. I feel badly for kids who grow up thinking that skinner boxes connected to a publisher’s bank account are what games have to be, but I’m not touching that stuff. Meanwhile there are great mid-tier games, indie games, and the very occasional AAA effort that doesn’t punish the player for playing. It only really gets hard when something like CDPR makes great games that don’t monetize outrageously, but also famously treat their employees like dirt.
  - tenaciousDaniel 8y ago
    Of all the stuff I've read about the new AC game, I'm really surprised no one has mentioned that it's just a reskin. It seems obvious to me.
    - 8y ago
InclinedPlane 8y ago
A huge problem with GameDev is that there's a huge group of 20-somethings fresh into the job market with tech skills who think of it as their dream job and are fully willing to be abused and exploited in order to work in the industry. It takes years for them to be burned out, at which point there's another batch of eager young go-getters willing to fill their void. This dynamic means that even at the worst companies there is never a shortage of workers willing to grind through the endless crunch-time and put up with horrible working conditions and worse processes in order to get games to market. Things used to be almost as bad in the software dev industry as a whole several decades back, except software dev moved on and got (a little) better. Additionally, a lot of those folks back then had substantial equity, whereas that's really not the case in GameDev today. There's an endless supply of disposable workers today, and that takes a lot of pressure off the industry to do better. Some places do better, but mostly through their own volition. And, unfortunately, such places are all too rare.
- dccoolgai 8y ago
  Guilty thought: it's probably good for the rest of us that these kids lock themselves into the dumpster of game dev, otherwise they'd be undermining labor markets elsewhere.

bliblah 8y ago

I honestly wish I could disagree but it's probably the most soul sucking industry out there. Yeah there are great companies but considering that just this year alone there were over 1,000 layoffs [1] in an industry that there are just a handful of large developers / publishers it's hard to get a position where you aren't just churning out gambling apps or one off VR projects for a Big Media Company trying to make a quick buck. The issue is that video games are entertainment and the industry is built off the back of exploited workers that are genuinely passionate but have no resources outside of becoming indie (which is basically rolling the dice) or just using their talents elsewhere. [1]https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-09-27-more-than-1-000-jobs-lost-to-studio-closures-over-the-past-year https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-09-27-more-than-...

sizzle 8y ago
I heard doing 3D cgi stuff for movies is a pretty similar situation but worse tend to be worse as they are contract positions out here in LA/Hollywood area.

wheelie_boy 8y ago

Game dev is a meat grinder. While making games is a great way to learn programming, and is a lot of fun, the working conditions make it an untenable career choice for most.

chii 8y ago
Only way is to either make it a hobby project, and work a day job that pays well. Or, take the risk and go indie - effectively a lottery ticket.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  Highly recommend against the latter, unless if you’re willing to do it for free. The glut of indie games in the past few years means that the average indie dev will get paid literally pennies per hour or less. Do it for fun if you want, but doing it for the money will lead to heartbreak.
  - sam0x17 8y ago
    Yeah in like a 3 year period it went from under 1000 new indie games on steam to over 7000. Past successful devs like the guy who made Binding of Issac have tried making new games recently that would have done amazingly back in the day, only to see them buried and get next to no attention. The space is now saturated. Indie game dev is now as difficult as publishing an award winning novel.
- vtange 8y ago
  Lottery tickets don't demand that you wear multiple hats and grind for years. Even if you bought a ticket every day it's probably cheaper than quitting your job and eating into your savings for a chance at an indie moonshot. The hobby project route is pretty much the only way.
bitL 8y ago
If you are young, single and healthy, and can work on important parts of a game (engine), do it for 1-2 years, have a blast, ship an AAA game, then escape to more stable FAANG, where you will be a highly paid guru. You can even write a book or two then, documenting your tricks and achievements.

gambiting 8y ago

Just as a counterpoint - I've worked for 4 years now as a programmer at one of the biggest publishers in the industry, and honestly, the work life balance is great, the pay is ok for the region(plus I get decent amount of shares every year), the work is varied, interesting and I like both what I do and people I work with. I think the last time I did overtime was 2 years ago, and even then it was only for a week around launch of the last project(in fact in every studio meeting we are constantly reminded that managers can NOT demand us to work overtime, if they do we need to report it higher up). Normally I get in at 8am, leave by 4pm, never work weekends or anything like that. Plus the usual for EU 25 paid days off(plus the studio is closed christmas to new years), unlimited paid sick leave, private health insurance.....really, it's pretty good. But then again, I am aware that most studios are not like that.

krinchan 8y ago
> Plus the usual for EU 25 paid days off Sometimes I really hate living in the US. -_-
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- skrebbel 8y ago
  Obviously we pay for it with lower salaries. Or, well, actually I don't know what US gamedev salaries are like but for other programming jobs, the difference is significant, also outside the SFBA.
drakonka 8y ago
Wanted to add my agreement to this; I've been in the industry since 2008. My first experience was really bad...then I moved to the EU. We do still do overtime, not mandated but when you have to ship it happens. Other than that the benefits, paid time off, work/life balance, union representation, etc have been very good in my experience.
vvanders 8y ago
Congrats, you've found the 2% of the industry that isn't insane. For many of us who fell into the other 98% the statistics aren't in your favor and some of the bigger publishers(EA, Microsoft) tend to go in ~6 year cycles. Had a friend who worked on Dead Space, which should have been a stable thing. Alas, Visceral isn't around either.

ocschwar 8y ago

I can't even play anymore. I've seen firsthand how the industry treats developers, and I cannot bring myself to send money into the pockets of the fratboy shitheels that run it.

Ace17 8y ago
Then, support indie developers and play their games!
WorldMaker 8y ago
Consider getting involved with the unionization effort, if you can: https://www.gameworkersunite.org/get-involved https://www.gameworkersunite.org/get-involved
HBlix 8y ago
The “upside” is that it’s never been easier to not play AAA games. Between derivative content rehashes yearly, insane microtransaction schemes, content cut into pieces and locked behind multiple season passes and dlc, and the endless busywork “gameplay” designed to maiximize engagement and money over time at the direct expense of fun... fuck it. Look at the new Assassin’s Creed game, which is a reskin of Origins, plus a dozen pages of “buy this shit!” The xp system is rigged to make it a slog and a grind unless you buy “boosts” and it’s a giant map filled with what amount to chores. I feel badly for kids who grow up thinking that skinner boxes connected to a publisher’s bank account are what games have to be, but I’m not touching that stuff. Meanwhile there are great mid-tier games, indie games, and the very occasional AAA effort that doesn’t punish the player for playing. It only really gets hard when something like CDPR makes great games that don’t monetize outrageously, but also famously treat their employees like dirt.
- tenaciousDaniel 8y ago
  Of all the stuff I've read about the new AC game, I'm really surprised no one has mentioned that it's just a reskin. It seems obvious to me.
  - 8y ago

InclinedPlane 8y ago

A huge problem with GameDev is that there's a huge group of 20-somethings fresh into the job market with tech skills who think of it as their dream job and are fully willing to be abused and exploited in order to work in the industry. It takes years for them to be burned out, at which point there's another batch of eager young go-getters willing to fill their void. This dynamic means that even at the worst companies there is never a shortage of workers willing to grind through the endless crunch-time and put up with horrible working conditions and worse processes in order to get games to market. Things used to be almost as bad in the software dev industry as a whole several decades back, except software dev moved on and got (a little) better. Additionally, a lot of those folks back then had substantial equity, whereas that's really not the case in GameDev today. There's an endless supply of disposable workers today, and that takes a lot of pressure off the industry to do better. Some places do better, but mostly through their own volition. And, unfortunately, such places are all too rare.

dccoolgai 8y ago
Guilty thought: it's probably good for the rest of us that these kids lock themselves into the dumpster of game dev, otherwise they'd be undermining labor markets elsewhere.