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The Best Article Ever Written About Bragging
- dogreborn 8y agoThink about it! If you have a lamborghini and none of your neighbors have it, and they regularly wait for buss. Then you'll be happy but your neighbors will not be happy It's a human nature to set themself different which is a source of worries for others who do not achieve the same thing Arguably we will be much happier if everyone has same height, same face, same income, same kind IQ etc... We can surely research, come up with a best diet then offer balanced deit to everyone free of cost where no one will be desperate to get a job when they feel hungry. And if this can be done, many will not prefer living in a big city which will make more spaces available to everyone and no one will be forced to go homless. It's a tradegy that no country is yet able to provide its citizen with free food and housing.
- Retra 8y agoWhat is "free?" I eat food regularly and have never had to raise animals or crops, nor harvest or butcher them. I live in a home I didn't build. I don't see how that is a tragedy. It seems like things are going pretty easy for a good number of us.
- blackbrokkoli 8y agoPlease keep the discussion on topic. You start with an example from the article but then just ramble about massively over-simplified issues and socialist strawmans, adding in some up-to-date buzz like amazon workers. This is not constructive.
- dogreborn 8y agoI didn't read any article. 1. Tell me what's oversimplified 2. Socialist strawman - i don't care about what a socilist is. 3. Amazon workers is something people can relate with, it makea sense to use it. Go somewhere else for your moderation skills.
- Sharlin 8y agoIn my culture people are, if anything, too humble about their achievements.
- dogreborn 8y agoBut there are other people who point about others achievement, everyone still feels same.
- sriram_malhar 8y agoI am proud to say I have never bragged in my life. :)
- asgard1024 8y agoI considered downvoting you for needless bragging, but I did not - I think I am a better person that way.
- taneq 8y ago"Think you're really righteous? Think you're pure in heart? Well, I know I'm a million times as humble as thou art"
- amarant 8y ago"in fact, I'm much more humble than you could understand"
- aikah 8y ago> I am proud to say I have never bragged in my life. How is that figure of speech called in English?
- PakG1 8y agoI would call it sarcasm, except it's too funny for me to simply label it sarcasm.... Not that sarcasm can't be funny, it just sometimes has such bad connotations.
- brianmcc 8y agoYou might call it "tongue in cheek" in the UK, a statement made with no pretense that it's true, with a gently humorous intent.
- aidenn0 8y agoIf anyone is wondering, "tongue-in-cheek" is also a term used in the US.
- Tor3 8y agoThe statement is missing two words: "other people's". Insert between 'hates' and 'bragging', and the question after the comma obviously isn't needed anymore.
- arglebarnacle 8y agoI understood the title more as, "since we all know other people's bragging is insufferable and does little to convince us of the bragger's supposedly higher status, why do we continue to brag ourselves as if we believe it will have the intended effect on others?" The answer, and the article gets at this in the last section, is a variety of anxious human emotional impulses. I guess we knew that, but the way the article teased it apart was interesting for me anyway.
- tw1010 8y agoWhy does everyone ask questions they know the answer to?
- PakG1 8y agoHey, some of us truly clueless people have no idea. Like I'd been searching for years for an article to explain to me why people get emotional, as there seemed to be no utility for it to me. Finally someone posted a couple to HN that finally explained to me, and I appreciated it. Take it from a socially clueless person, some of us don't know the answers to these questions. :)
- mehrdadn 8y ago> I'd been searching for years for an article to explain to me why people get emotional, as there seemed to be no utility for it to me. Finally someone posted a couple to HN that finally explained to me, and I appreciated it. That sounds interesting, would you have the links handy? :)
- PakG1 8y agoArticles listed in order of what I felt was most educational, useful, and enlightening, with most educational at the top: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17493303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17493303 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15356760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15356760 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12885356 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12885356 edit: Interesting, the most useful article for me is also the newest. I guess I'd been dissatisfied with articles I found for a long time. :)
- aklemm 8y agoCalm down.
- ashelmire 8y agoThe unfortunate reality is that if you don’t sing your own praises, you will miss out on opportunities in life. Most people don’t have the time to really pay attention to what you’re doing (bosses, interviewers, dating interests, etc), so you have to make them aware - or you’re just off in the corner being unseen.
- amelius 8y agoOr you have to be so good that nobody can ignore you.
- PakG1 8y agoUnless you're really lucky, that puts you at the peril of sociopaths who will just take advantage of you without rewarding you or giving you credit. Easy path to bitterness, unfortunately. People need to be able to stand out from the crowd in multiple ways, like it or not.
- saiya-jin 8y agoIt may work in smaller companies, but in corporations this often ain't true. Marketing beats raw skills easily, since those promoting/increasing salary are usually quite far from technical aspects of daily life.
- maxxxxx 8y agoExactly. If you don't make sure that you get credit for your own work others happily will do so and reap the benefits.
- maxxxxx 8y agoThat's bullshit. If you don't promote yourself you will always wonder why others who aren't as good advance in life while you stand still and are taken advantage of.
- the_clarence 8y agoThis. Had a colleague who kept telling everyone how good he was doing. He started at the same time a lot of us did but got promoted extremely quickly.
- perpetualcrayon 8y agoI think sure there is bragging in the world, but in my experience I have come to learn that most of it is in the head of the person judging you, or you judging the other person's intention. I'd say probably 90% of what people think is bragging is more likely simply misunderstanding or a difference in one's perception and / or misreading context of either party. Or even each party's difference in upbringing / understanding of or attention toward certain styles of etiquette. The other 10% is probably legitimately what I would call bragging, none of which really tends to get under my skin.
- forkerenok 8y agoIn my view there is a certain amount of bragging that is warranted. And that amount depends on the person: his/her "utility" to the people that take the bragging, his/her "objective greatness", his/her willingness to take your own bragging with awe, etc. Terms quoted as they shouldn't be taken in literal meaning.
- the_clarence 8y agoTook me a while to figure out why the title was so blunt.
- jakeogh 8y agoIt checks out. My face hurts.
- the_cat_kittles 8y agothis is a fantastic read. i thought i was a connoisseur of bragging but this is next level. also a little painful- it may expose your own bragging to you. to the author: truly enjoyed this, thank you and keep writing!
- nl 8y agoThis made me smile: I claimed that I was both a Haskell and Lisp programmer, a statement that you can roughly translate into non-programmer talk as “I only listen to My Bloody Valentine shoe-gaze and Radiohead B-sides played in reverse”.
- hnzix 8y agoIt's almost as if we're a bunch of barely evolved primates jockeying over money, power and status for a limited pool of breeding partners and resources. Of course I realized long ago that I'm above such petty concerns.
- csunbird 8y agoVery good subtle bragging, I applaud you sir.
- theycallmestacy 8y agoI must agree, for I, too, have highly refined patterns.
- brianmcc 8y agoHi less_penguiny - absolutely loved this article. Brilliant writing. I'm also finding myself thinking a lot about social interactions, especially the dumb nonsense vast swathes of our populations carry out, and being currently in the middle of Desmond Morris "Human Zoo" (brilliant, slightly dated, but you'll love it if you're not familiar) your piece really struck a chord - particularly with "Bragging is personally imposing what-you-believe-to-be status-elevating thoughts on your audience". Status, tribes, dominance, all seem explain so much modern phenomena from a species which ought to know better. In "About" you write "I was heartbroken by the tumbleweed response I got for my last writing project, so I don’t intend to spin my wheels writing in vain again." Please don't feel discouraged I get much the same on pretty much every submission I post here, so it's not you, per se! Writing is the easy and fun part, but like a startup I suspect promotion, networking, and all that play a big part. Being an established name makes a huge difference too - it all gets much harder if you don't have a large following. Are you on Twitter? That can be good for exposure. Happy to follow and RT! Best of luck!
- Vinnl 8y agoI really enjoyed it as well. I'd also suggest an RSS feed; although it makes it harder to track who reads your articles, I really prefer to not sign up for email updates. Anyway, keep it up!
- less_penguiny 8y agoJust cobbled one together – LMK if it works https://www.lesspenguiny.com/feed.rss https://www.lesspenguiny.com/feed.rss
- conesus 8y agoCheck the links on the stories, it doesn’t yet work. Also, why truncate the feed?
- less_penguiny 8y agowell spotted. both should be addressed now
- darkerside 8y agoI enjoyed the article very much, but I question the premise of building a framework around bragging that sets it apart from normal conversation. I preferred the ending where we had the opportunity to understand how the lines between bragging and information sharing break down, and that riding that line can be a positive experience for both parties. I especially loved the end where we realize that our reaction to bragging can offset the impact on ourselves and bring joy to others simultaneously.
- dmos62 8y agoEnjoyed the article and was surprised by how exhaustive the brag type list is. It really activated my restrospection. The pictures I could have done without, though.
- less_penguiny 8y agoThanks for the compliment! The idea behind the pictures isn't so much about them being useful (they mostly aren't — I'm well aware of that). Instead it's about breaking up the wall of text and adding visual variety so as to prevent reader fatigue. It's a tip I picked up from reading the Star Slate Codex piece on writing: http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/02/20/writing-advice/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/02/20/writing-advice/ Also: HN readers != average internet readers
- bramjans 8y agoSome counter-anecdata, I was rather amused by the images. Congrats with your fascinating article, really enjoyed it!
- sethammons 8y agoFwiw, I very much enjoyed the pictures. I enjoyed the levity.
- rajekas 8y agoElsewhere on Hacker News: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20181004-why-pride-evolved-and-its-benefits-versus-modesty http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20181004-why-pride-evolved-a...
- jasonmaydie 8y agoexcellent read. My brother in law has been extremely successful with real estate from his single apartment beginnings, nowadays when we meet and I ask him "how are you" he replies "I'm blessed". dude I know you have a lot of money, I just wanted to know if you were sick or something. smh
- onemoresoop 8y agoHaha, how many penguins for the title? What category would this classify? As I'm sure it's the author playing a joke
- less_penguiny 8y ago~4 penguins :)
- the_arun 8y agoI noticed author did fantastic job on bragging about his writing skills!
- rb808 8y agoI really dont like bragging, but I've noticed in groups where no one is bragging or talking about themselves its really boring. I have a bunch of really smart friends who do really interesting things and when we meet up its like what are you up to? Nothing much. Nothing interesting. Later you find out that they just visited Mongolia, another is learning Russian and the other built renewable power system for a holiday house they just bought, but they're too worried about bragging to bring it up. (exaggerated) Meanwhile I (and I'm guessing they) dont like social status but kinda disappointed they don't get loved much. Meanwhile I have other asshole friends who talk about the new expensive kitchen he got installed and its actually nice to hate on him and have a decent conversation about it. So I'm starting to rethink my views on bragging. Maybe its a good thing.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- jamesrcole 8y agoThere's a lot of middle ground between misleading-downplaying and bragging.
- mLuby 8y agoI've experienced the same. But I think you're highlighting the difference between push and pull sharing. Separately, the content of either method of sharing can be more braggadocious or factual. That said, I find people who need to brag usually push-share.
- amsilprotag 8y agoI'm surprised the author quoted Why Nerds are Unpopular and didn't cite what I feel like is the most relevant part: When there is some real external test of skill, it isn't painful to be at the bottom of the hierarchy. A rookie on a football team doesn't resent the skill of the veteran; he hopes to be like him one day and is happy to have the chance to learn from him. The veteran may in turn feel a sense of noblesse oblige. And most importantly, their status depends on how well they do against opponents, not on whether they can push the other down. It is nice to be in a group where people can do praise-worthy things and be praised for them. And, as the conclusion addresses, it is nice to give praise when due. This norm can be eroded by braggers. But it can also be eroded by people taking any mention of an accomplishment as a slight. For example, the Oxford anecdote seems like the author going out of his way to feel slighted and assume malice. The excited salesperson anecdote is similar. Do others have a duty to mask excitement out of worry that it could be interpreted as bragging? One of the best habits I have adopted is muttering "good on them" and moving along when an emotion suspiciously similar to jealously starts bubbling up.
- sanchitasaha 8y agoAwesome article guys. so Funny
- akhilcacharya 8y agoAbsolutely love this article! This one especially popped out at me > IV Brag Gags: Avoiding Bragging At All Costs I've met too many people that say they "go to school near Boston" or "work in Mountain View". I don't think it's the intention, but more than the "status anxiety" part sometimes it feels like the other party seems like the listener isn't "worthy" of knowing, or at least should know from the implication if they were.
- C4stor 8y agoWell, I'm guilty of that, but it's because I don't assume people actually know the specific company I work at, or the university I went to. Even if the latter is generally deemed "prestigious", in the end, only a small set of people know it, so it's a generally useless precision. Admittedly, if you work for a let's say a GAFA, you can probably safely assume people know the name. But for let's say MIT, I'd very curious to know which percentage of the us population actually know the name and attach it to academic excellence.
- akhilcacharya 8y ago> I don't assume people actually know the specific company I work at, or the university I went to. When I started interning out of state I thought this as well, but then people thought I was just obfuscating going to Duke or UNC (when in reality my actual school was a few tiers lower). In most circumstances where this sort of thing would come up, I would imagine even the general public would understand the weight MIT has - hell, Tony Stark went there! (Also, what's GAFA? Google, Apple, Facebook, Airbnb?)
- C4stor 8y agoHaha, I don't know either Duke or UNC ! (but I'm french, so there's that I suppose...) Around there, GAFA is what you said except it's Amazon and not AirBnb
- jacobolus 8y agoSome people will completely change the way they converse once they find out you have X status marker. A famous elite university is one of those markers that triggers a good number of them. For example, they will instantly switch from friendly to standoffish, or they will redirect the whole conversation to be about this new information, or will start treating their interlocutor as a superior, or asking for some advice/help, or... It’s not clear whether they have some insecurity about their own education, or just curiosity, or what, but it can be a real drag. A different group consider themselves to be similarly elite, and will also completely change their conversation when they find another of their tribe, e.g. start talking about how much better “we” are than those rabble in a clubby way. This can also be super annoying. I assume something similar happens when people find out you are rich, or won a prize, or have famous friends, etc., but “where did you go to school?” is a more common ice breaker than “how fat is your savings account?” Deflection can save a lot of trouble.
- draw_down 8y agoNobody likes a braggart but the author strikes me as way oversensitive to anyone saying anything positive about themselves, their accomplishments or possessions. (Or not even actually saying - implying is enough!) You can taxonify every imagined slight into ever-so-finely distinguished categories, or you can think hard thoughts about why it bothers you so much. Personally I prefer to go for the latter- I'm bothered, but why? What's going on with me that whatever another person said is affecting me this way? What insecurity has it hit upon, why am I insecure about it?
- poc_m 8y agoI love this article. Unfortunately, looking back at conversations I had with people this summer, most of the talks I had very easily fit into these categories. If one can easily categorize bragging techniques in these buckets, it begs the question: how can a person who is genuinely interested in making a conversation interact with people who brag? A lot of people brag. If that makes you feel bad, do you just give up on them and move on? Is there some way to use these bragging forces to a positive effect? I'm genuinely asking. I'm constantly craving good connections with people, you don't meet a lot of people who are able to talk about themselves and inspire you without looking like they are bragging and get you annoyed. (Any answer will not fit under the "Beneficence Brag" category since I'm explicitly asking for help :))
- less_penguiny 8y agoI don't have a general solution but perhaps a few ideas: One is to lower your threshold for what you count as being bragging — sometimes people are just sharing and they don't mean any harm. And sometimes they just really need validation. But then again, despite their benign intentions, hearing their status might sting, especially if things aren't going your way lately. Another option is to poke fun at them, assuming you are on joking terms yadayada. E.g. I caught myself bragging about the achievements of my previous business partner at a party last weekend and the room was having none of it. As soon as I finished my sentence, they erupted into "woopdey doo" or (impersonating me) "I don't mean to brag or anything!!" So there's that.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago@less_penguiny: Very nice article, as others have said. It seems like you really nailed a lot of subtleties. Your article hinted at a problem we all face: sometimes we're left guessing whether or not the other person is intentionally bragging. I.e., there's a problem of ambiguity. I'd like to suggest a follow-up article: suggestions for how to communicate certain ideas in a way that minimizes the risk of being interpreted as bragging. Or maybe better, minimizes the risk of making the audience feel bad because of the same underlying psychological issues (insecurity, envy, etc.) that get tickled by bragging. For example, another comment in this discussion [0] points out how someone trying to praise you could be (mis?)understood as actually bragging. It would be awesome to post a catalog of ways people can avoid this kind of ambiguity. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18148282 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18148282
- less_penguiny 8y agocheers :D So the intention of the article was partially to do exactly this, but I didn't want the tone to be too heavy-handed or self-helpy so I relegated this information to being between the lines. If you take a look at the number of penguins I gave each technique, that roughly correlates to how positively I view each bragging technique. As the website name suggests, the less penguins the better!
- perpetualcrayon 8y agoOn further exploration of this topic, I'm also noticing that maybe I could put a certain spin on this blog post by the following logic. The age we're living in we're seeing a lot of boundaries become far less rigid. Class and social distinction being a few of those boundaries. I'm not sure if this was the intention of the author, but I'd prefer to look at this maybe as a "guide book" for etiquette in this regard. Regardless of a speaker's intention it's also perception that is at play here. If braggarts are more aware of the audiences they are with, and audiences are less sensitive to these things that separate us in our life experiences, on both ends of the spectrum this has the potential to "move the needle" to a more comfortable place for everyone.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y agoThis article reminds me of a phenomenon I sometimes see on LinkedIn streams: people who post about their own accomplishments, and use the headline "Humbled to/by ..." As a contrived example: "Humbled to be named to SomeRandomMagazine's Top 30 under 30 list". My first thought when seeing such as headline is, like heck that person is humbled. I can't think of any honest reason to post a story about one's own humiliation on a website focused on self-promotion such as LinkedIn. And, perhaps I'm over-reaching here, but... Based on my assumption that such posts are disingenuous, I hold this against whoever posts it. Not only because it's (AFAICT) dishonest, but because it diminishes the avenues available for persons who which to show genuine contrition as a first step towards righting a wrong.
- Digit-Al 8y agoHumble and humiliation are completely different. I think the word you are after is humility. Just trying to help - not attempting to brag that I'm better than you in any way :-)
- DoofusOfDeath 8y agoYou're right of course. It was a mistake for me to use the word "humiliation" in that way, especially where it would cause such confusion. Here's my main point, reworded: Being "humbled" is basically the opposite of being "exalted" [0]. But posting on LinkedIn a story about being recognized as awesome by some third party is absolutely a form of exaltation. And IMO it's a particularly revolting form of exaltation: it's self exaltation using the verbiage of self-effacement. [0] https://www.dictionary.com/browse/humble https://www.dictionary.com/browse/humble
- jaclaz 8y agoMaybe I missed it, but I didn't see what I call "deal bragging" (which is very common I believe and that particularly irks me). Basically everyone (but me) manages to get things (or work done) for much less than their common market value is or however much less than what I can get it at. Be it a car, a pair of trousers or a phone, or the renovation works of his/her bathroom, the "deal bragger" tells you that he/she found (through his/her network or friends, or internet, or whatever other means) a supplier that sold the item to him/her at an unrealistically discounted price or - say - a plumber that did the work for a fraction of what is normal for that kind of work.
- hondadriver 8y agoThis!
- less_penguiny 8y agoYes, this is definitely a thing. Very modern too. Indeed I had a whole section on what people brag about (deals being one of them, as well as "potential" or being c-r-a-z-y). I plan on releasing this stuff soon.
- air7 8y agoVery fun read. Though by focusing (with great humor and nuance) on the "Others" and their faults, it perhaps misses an important question (imo) namely, why does other people's bragging affect me negatively? Why do I not feel genuinely happy for other people's accomplishments, or just joyfully notice their childlike attempts at feeling better about themselves through social approval? God knows none of Their motivations are foreign to me ...
- twic 8y agoI can't believe this guy wrote this whole essay just so he can brag about having an athletic girlfriend.
- less_penguiny 8y agoCaught me red-handed :D
- rdlecler1 8y agoAnother reason to brag is to quickly establish credibility/confidence in noisy markets. You want to quickly establish yourself as a peer or credible individual so that you can get down to business without wasting time feeling each other out. If you’re a VC it’s much better to get an email with team credentials. Similarly if you’re a VC that wants to get into a deal you might say who you invested in and who you coinvest with.
- joncrane 8y agoDo people really brag about their salary? I've always found that announcing my income will provoke jealousy and the expectation that I'll "invite" people to more things. Perhaps it's also tinged with a little bit of inner guilt that I should be doing more for people that are less fortunate. But I've always had a policy of "that's between me and my accountant (though my accountant recently has been those cheap online tax filing websites)." For example if a recruiter tries to ask me how much money I make. I have shared with my mother and my uncle also. What are some HN commenters' attitudes or policies towards this and how is it working for you?
- less_penguiny 8y agoDepends on where you live. I've been both in the US and in Europe, and I heard it much more often in the states. In fact, it led to some ugly evenings, e.g. if someone finds out someone else is getting paid way more for basically the same job. I also noticed that freelance stuff gets bragged about more often — how big their last contract was closed for, or what daily rate they got from a client.
- archiepeach 8y agoI read the entire article to my girlfriend earlier. Yes, she can read, she just prefers to listen to the sound of my own voice #blessed. Just wanted to say a big thank you! It prompted a lengthy discussion that went on till late. Would love to read some more of the potential articles you’re thinking about writing.
- less_penguiny 8y agoOh wow that's great! Did you two come up with any ideas or personal epiphanies about bragging and status?