5 ms·

I feel like an old man shaking my first at the slow march of inevitable progress - but - this is exactly why 'drive assist' or any other flavor of automated dri

by lolsal 8y ago

I feel like an old man shaking my first at the slow march of inevitable progress - but - this is exactly why 'drive assist' or any other flavor of automated driving that is not 100% automation is not useful to me. If I have to pay attention and babysit piloting the vehicle, I might as well be driving (assuming I'm of sound enough mind and body to actually drive).

icebraining 8y ago
Waymo agrees with you, that's why their custom prototype car (the Firefly) didn't even have a steering wheel.
- lolsal 8y ago
  That sounds more like something up my alley... but I would prefer to be a late-adopter personally :)
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    Just not a late adopter!
- dekhn 8y ago
  The Firefly was a joke. They had to install steering wheels shortly after getting them. The vehicles saw very little use.
  - icebraining 8y ago
    I disagree it was a "joke"; I'd say it was a concept car - their vision of the future. They need steering wheels because they're still testing them, but the Firefly is the goal.
    - dekhn 8y ago
      they made a few then had to install wheels after it was pointed out it was illegal in CA to drive without them- IE, lack of basic due diligence. And they've reverted to conventional cars as a platform because that makes more economic sense. Fine to have a goal but if you never get there and make basic bungles on the way, it's a joke.
  - Tempest1981 8y ago
    Perfect for places like Downtown San Francisco, or retirement communities.
MBCook 8y ago
I don’t know. I like the idea of emergency braking as one last backstop. It can react faster than I can, and if prevents something I’m happy. It’s not like I’ve given up the brake pedal to it. Lane assist is similar. It’s very useful in high crosswinds, but it’s reliable enough even on well painted roads that you get used to it and end up relying on it. It feels a bit like power steering: makes the job easier but you never stop doing the job.
- lolsal 8y ago
  > I like the idea of emergency braking as one last backstop. It can react faster than I can, and if prevents something I’m happy. It’s not like I’ve given up the brake pedal to it. This is an example of something I might be open to, but I guess because I write software I have a million 'what if' nags worrying about edge cases. > Lane assist is similar. It’s very useful in high crosswinds, but it’s reliable enough even on well painted roads that you get used to it and end up relying on it. It feels a bit like power steering: makes the job easier but you never stop doing the job. On this I disagree. If you're not controlling the vehicle enough to keep in your lane, you're not paying enough attention - except in the high crosswinds scenario. I don't drive in high crosswinds, so I guess that is not a use case I am familiar with.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    It still feels like you’re keeping it in the lane, just doesn’t feel like it takes as much force as it might otherwise. The curves may seem gentler. Like many of these it requires active input. It will turn itself off (with a nice audible and flashing warning) if you don’t keep doing your part. You’re not going to get more than 30-45s of ‘I don’t have to do anything’ before it turns off and it’s all on you again.
- Shivetya 8y ago
  I am not so sure about that statement. On a recent trip I passed through Cincinnati and I let my car; model 3; do both the speed and steering. I set a respectable follow distance which did of course encourage a few of the more aggressive drivers to dart in front of me. It never put me in a situation I felt I was at risk and more than once braked for something far quicker than I caught on. as for the steering and lane keeping, even at V8 it was perfectly fine across hundred mile stretches of interstate. where it had difficulty is when the right line vanished for splitting highways or off ramps. still it recovered to the left before fully going to the right. Not 100% but I bet over 90% of my 600 mile commute North was with both traffic aware cruise control and auto steering. What took me the most to get used to was TACC which many cars have and have had for years. Once I learned it really did stop and move correctly everything fell into place. The steering was my least concern and I quickly understood its limitations. The payoff was, realizing I was drowsy by seeing something in the rear view mirror I did not recall passing and the car kept me and others safe. Needless to say that was a wake up call to take a break. Is it perfect, no. However I am under no illusion that I will be able to hop in a FSD car of any brand in bad weather and have it take me to the hospital within the next five years and maybe even ten. I really want to see how they overcome snow and near white out conditions that I have driven because at the time I had to
NickM 8y ago
How do you feel about cruise control? Or automatic transmissions? I like semi-autonomous systems because they still take some of the cognitive load off of driving. Paying attention is still easier than paying attention plus constantly having to adjust speed/steering/etc.
- azinman2 8y ago
  You need to still have some kind of important task to keep your focus, otherwise you get these kinds of accidents.
- lolsal 8y ago
  > How do you feel about cruise control? Or automatic transmissions? Cruise control is great. I still control where the car goes though. I still have to be 100% attentive to what the vehicle is doing. At no point am I relying on the vehicle to keep me safe. Automatic transmissions are great too, except for very specific use cases. > I like semi-autonomous systems because they still take some of the cognitive load off of driving. Paying attention is still easier than paying attention plus constantly having to adjust speed/steering/etc. I think I would be more open to 'smart' information systems - beeps when leaving a lane, back up cameras, etc. Anything that takes piloting control is a step too far for me at this time. Cruise control is largely proven to work. I never worry about it failing when I use it.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

by lolsal 8y ago

icebraining 8y ago

Waymo agrees with you, that's why their custom prototype car (the Firefly) didn't even have a steering wheel.

lolsal 8y ago
That sounds more like something up my alley... but I would prefer to be a late-adopter personally :)
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  Just not a late adopter!
dekhn 8y ago
The Firefly was a joke. They had to install steering wheels shortly after getting them. The vehicles saw very little use.
- icebraining 8y ago
  I disagree it was a "joke"; I'd say it was a concept car - their vision of the future. They need steering wheels because they're still testing them, but the Firefly is the goal.
  - dekhn 8y ago
    they made a few then had to install wheels after it was pointed out it was illegal in CA to drive without them- IE, lack of basic due diligence. And they've reverted to conventional cars as a platform because that makes more economic sense. Fine to have a goal but if you never get there and make basic bungles on the way, it's a joke.
- Tempest1981 8y ago
  Perfect for places like Downtown San Francisco, or retirement communities.

MBCook 8y ago

I don’t know. I like the idea of emergency braking as one last backstop. It can react faster than I can, and if prevents something I’m happy. It’s not like I’ve given up the brake pedal to it. Lane assist is similar. It’s very useful in high crosswinds, but it’s reliable enough even on well painted roads that you get used to it and end up relying on it. It feels a bit like power steering: makes the job easier but you never stop doing the job.

lolsal 8y ago
> I like the idea of emergency braking as one last backstop. It can react faster than I can, and if prevents something I’m happy. It’s not like I’ve given up the brake pedal to it. This is an example of something I might be open to, but I guess because I write software I have a million 'what if' nags worrying about edge cases. > Lane assist is similar. It’s very useful in high crosswinds, but it’s reliable enough even on well painted roads that you get used to it and end up relying on it. It feels a bit like power steering: makes the job easier but you never stop doing the job. On this I disagree. If you're not controlling the vehicle enough to keep in your lane, you're not paying enough attention - except in the high crosswinds scenario. I don't drive in high crosswinds, so I guess that is not a use case I am familiar with.
- MBCook 8y ago
  It still feels like you’re keeping it in the lane, just doesn’t feel like it takes as much force as it might otherwise. The curves may seem gentler. Like many of these it requires active input. It will turn itself off (with a nice audible and flashing warning) if you don’t keep doing your part. You’re not going to get more than 30-45s of ‘I don’t have to do anything’ before it turns off and it’s all on you again.
Shivetya 8y ago
I am not so sure about that statement. On a recent trip I passed through Cincinnati and I let my car; model 3; do both the speed and steering. I set a respectable follow distance which did of course encourage a few of the more aggressive drivers to dart in front of me. It never put me in a situation I felt I was at risk and more than once braked for something far quicker than I caught on. as for the steering and lane keeping, even at V8 it was perfectly fine across hundred mile stretches of interstate. where it had difficulty is when the right line vanished for splitting highways or off ramps. still it recovered to the left before fully going to the right. Not 100% but I bet over 90% of my 600 mile commute North was with both traffic aware cruise control and auto steering. What took me the most to get used to was TACC which many cars have and have had for years. Once I learned it really did stop and move correctly everything fell into place. The steering was my least concern and I quickly understood its limitations. The payoff was, realizing I was drowsy by seeing something in the rear view mirror I did not recall passing and the car kept me and others safe. Needless to say that was a wake up call to take a break. Is it perfect, no. However I am under no illusion that I will be able to hop in a FSD car of any brand in bad weather and have it take me to the hospital within the next five years and maybe even ten. I really want to see how they overcome snow and near white out conditions that I have driven because at the time I had to

NickM 8y ago

How do you feel about cruise control? Or automatic transmissions? I like semi-autonomous systems because they still take some of the cognitive load off of driving. Paying attention is still easier than paying attention plus constantly having to adjust speed/steering/etc.

azinman2 8y ago
You need to still have some kind of important task to keep your focus, otherwise you get these kinds of accidents.
lolsal 8y ago
> How do you feel about cruise control? Or automatic transmissions? Cruise control is great. I still control where the car goes though. I still have to be 100% attentive to what the vehicle is doing. At no point am I relying on the vehicle to keep me safe. Automatic transmissions are great too, except for very specific use cases. > I like semi-autonomous systems because they still take some of the cognitive load off of driving. Paying attention is still easier than paying attention plus constantly having to adjust speed/steering/etc. I think I would be more open to 'smart' information systems - beeps when leaving a lane, back up cameras, etc. Anything that takes piloting control is a step too far for me at this time. Cruise control is largely proven to work. I never worry about it failing when I use it.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]