8 ms·

Mexico, along with Russia, are the two most notorious mafia states. And notice the problems have been getting worse as the amount of oil diminishes, which was p

Mexico, along with Russia, are the two most notorious mafia states. And notice the problems have been getting worse as the amount of oil diminishes, which was predicted. This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. There will be even more refugees, too, because of this.

gambiting 8y ago
>> This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. Just FYI, not everyone on HN is from US.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- samstave 8y ago
  Sure, but the entire world is/can-be affected by the actions of the US as a whole.
  - gambiting 8y ago
    No disagreement here.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    What an understatement. For better or worse.
- linnk87 8y ago
  Some of us even live in Mexico. Crazy, right?
  - Insanity 8y ago
    I never felt unsafe in Mexico and actually enjoy it a lot more than my yearly visits to the US. Incredibly friendly people, great food and beautiful places. Regarding violence, I find that most drug related violence stays contained within the cartel-world. Whilst in the US, random shootings are.. random.. Not that I feel unsafe in the US either though, the odds are pretty good that nothing will happen in either country. (Most of my time in Mexico is spent in NL, Monterrey, and most of my time in the US near San Antonio, Texas. So I can't speak for either country in it's entirety of course)
    - simonsarris 8y ago
      > Whilst in the US, random shootings are.. random.. What you are saying is astonishingly untrue. https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/ https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-u...
      - Insanity 8y ago
        I was basing myself mostly on things like mass shootings such as during a recent eSports competition or the school shootings. But, my previous message might have indicated an idea of random shootings everywhere every day, which is not what I meant. As mentioned, it is not that I feel unsafe in either country and I realise most parts are safe. Thank you for the interesting link though!
      - morsch 8y ago
        The business implications are clear. https://xkcd.com/1138/ https://xkcd.com/1138/
- davidw 8y ago
  English lacks a 'we' form that separates "me and all the other people" from "you and I". I think the poster meant the former. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clusivity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clusivity
  - djpr 8y ago
    Interesting, I grew up with have inclusive/exclusive forms in Indonesian but never really thought about how it would really help in situations like this!
browsercoin 8y ago
so....a wall then
- v_lisivka 8y ago
  You made two spelling errors in "war". Do you think that mafia will sit and watch?
  - adventured 8y ago
    The US military or national guard would be deployed as necessary if the cartels began firing on the contractors and government workers building a theoretical wall. Cartels are certainly threatening in their environment, they're entirely worthless in actual military style engagements. In terms of gear, logistics, training and soldiers, they're less capable than the most mediocre of nation armies. It's not what they're good at. They fare extremely poorly against the Mexican military. It'd be just about the dumbest thing a cartel ever did, to engage the US Government in such a moronic 'war.' They'd quickly abandon that idea. It's the reason they don't target prominent people in the US Government as it is now: the US can kill their leadership top to bottom, with just a bit of effort and resources pointed that direction. They know that, so they stay within certain bounds of behavior accordingly.
    - lechiffre10 8y ago
      You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. How's the US military holding up against fighters in Afghanistan or Iraq? Guerilla style warfare has always been a problem for the United States. Case in point, Vietnam. Now throw the Cartel into the mix with the funding they have and you'd have a much bigger problem at hand. "They fare extremely poorly against the Mexican military." Show proof of this statement? Ever since the Mexican government announced the war on drugs and deployed the military violence is at its highest in recent years and the rise of even more sophisticated Cartels with actual military training has risen. You should stop watching Hollywood movies.
      - 2_listerine_pls 8y ago
thefounder 8y ago
I don't understand why they don't upgrade their methods for the 21st century and get into legality. I'm sure they would be quite successful in pharma/opioids/tabacco/gambling businesses. There would be no need to use axes on average people.
- hyeomans 8y ago
  “I don't understand why they don't upgrade their methods for the 21st century and get into legality.“ Are referring to the U.S? This partially started when drugs found a market in U.S. If you’re referring to Mexico, well we’re U.S. slave and a conservative country with a broken government. Maybe I just lost hope of my home country.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  The legal crime and illegal crime markets are in (or close to) equilibrium; why switch if the former is about as easy as the latter?
- lossolo 8y ago
  Because running legal business is a lot harder than running illegal one. With legal business there are laws/regulations and there is competition. When you run drug business and competitor show up you just take a gun and eliminate your competitor (simplifying here of course). Another thing is that you will get respect from a lot people in certain circles and a lot will fear you if you've built successful crime organization. It's a lot harder to get that running pharma business. Why do you think people like Escobar didn't just retire having hundreds millions of dollars? Sometimes its not all about the money in the end game. They do invest in legal businesses to launder money most of the time. Being on top of large criminal organization is intoxicating just like having power is.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    Nicky Barnes made the cover of a NY times magazine making the violent drug dealer look respectable.
- drawkbox 8y ago
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
onetimemanytime 8y ago
Russia can probably control their mafia. At least convince them not to touch "civilians": Meh, just a bunch on mafiosi killing each other. But if 12 headless people are found hanging from the town's main bridge, that's different, people will be scared.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  The Russian government is a mafia, we just call them oligarchs. If one gets a little uppity he gets whacked. The leader is worth 50 billion dollars. It's the sopranos on steroids and has nuclear weapons.
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    Yeah but my point was that Mexican cartels are so openly brutal and that effects everything. Yeah, Russian government and mafia are one, but it's done differently.
    - paulie_a 8y ago
      I don't see the difference, openly poisoning people is pretty brutal too. Or shooting journalists in the street seems fairly brutal.
  - InLispWeTrust 8y ago
    Through out it's history Russia has been far worse without a strong Sorpano at the top. Putin may me worth 50 or 150B and he came to power by blowing a few apartment blocks, but pensions, life expectancy, standard of living have sharply risen during his reign. Maybe if the strongest cartel leader came to power in Mexico, he'd be able to eliminate most of the crime, but USA wouldn't allow that.

gambiting 8y ago

>> This, on our own doorstep, cannot be contained and will affect our own country. Just FYI, not everyone on HN is from US.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
samstave 8y ago
Sure, but the entire world is/can-be affected by the actions of the US as a whole.
- gambiting 8y ago
  No disagreement here.
- MBCook 8y ago
  What an understatement. For better or worse.
linnk87 8y ago
Some of us even live in Mexico. Crazy, right?
- Insanity 8y ago
  I never felt unsafe in Mexico and actually enjoy it a lot more than my yearly visits to the US. Incredibly friendly people, great food and beautiful places. Regarding violence, I find that most drug related violence stays contained within the cartel-world. Whilst in the US, random shootings are.. random.. Not that I feel unsafe in the US either though, the odds are pretty good that nothing will happen in either country. (Most of my time in Mexico is spent in NL, Monterrey, and most of my time in the US near San Antonio, Texas. So I can't speak for either country in it's entirety of course)
  - simonsarris 8y ago
    > Whilst in the US, random shootings are.. random.. What you are saying is astonishingly untrue. https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/ https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-u...
    - Insanity 8y ago
      I was basing myself mostly on things like mass shootings such as during a recent eSports competition or the school shootings. But, my previous message might have indicated an idea of random shootings everywhere every day, which is not what I meant. As mentioned, it is not that I feel unsafe in either country and I realise most parts are safe. Thank you for the interesting link though!
    - morsch 8y ago
      The business implications are clear. https://xkcd.com/1138/ https://xkcd.com/1138/
davidw 8y ago
English lacks a 'we' form that separates "me and all the other people" from "you and I". I think the poster meant the former. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clusivity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clusivity
- djpr 8y ago
  Interesting, I grew up with have inclusive/exclusive forms in Indonesian but never really thought about how it would really help in situations like this!

browsercoin 8y ago

so....a wall then

v_lisivka 8y ago
You made two spelling errors in "war". Do you think that mafia will sit and watch?
- adventured 8y ago
  The US military or national guard would be deployed as necessary if the cartels began firing on the contractors and government workers building a theoretical wall. Cartels are certainly threatening in their environment, they're entirely worthless in actual military style engagements. In terms of gear, logistics, training and soldiers, they're less capable than the most mediocre of nation armies. It's not what they're good at. They fare extremely poorly against the Mexican military. It'd be just about the dumbest thing a cartel ever did, to engage the US Government in such a moronic 'war.' They'd quickly abandon that idea. It's the reason they don't target prominent people in the US Government as it is now: the US can kill their leadership top to bottom, with just a bit of effort and resources pointed that direction. They know that, so they stay within certain bounds of behavior accordingly.
  - lechiffre10 8y ago
    You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. How's the US military holding up against fighters in Afghanistan or Iraq? Guerilla style warfare has always been a problem for the United States. Case in point, Vietnam. Now throw the Cartel into the mix with the funding they have and you'd have a much bigger problem at hand. "They fare extremely poorly against the Mexican military." Show proof of this statement? Ever since the Mexican government announced the war on drugs and deployed the military violence is at its highest in recent years and the rise of even more sophisticated Cartels with actual military training has risen. You should stop watching Hollywood movies.
    - 2_listerine_pls 8y ago

thefounder 8y ago

I don't understand why they don't upgrade their methods for the 21st century and get into legality. I'm sure they would be quite successful in pharma/opioids/tabacco/gambling businesses. There would be no need to use axes on average people.

hyeomans 8y ago
“I don't understand why they don't upgrade their methods for the 21st century and get into legality.“ Are referring to the U.S? This partially started when drugs found a market in U.S. If you’re referring to Mexico, well we’re U.S. slave and a conservative country with a broken government. Maybe I just lost hope of my home country.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
The legal crime and illegal crime markets are in (or close to) equilibrium; why switch if the former is about as easy as the latter?
lossolo 8y ago
Because running legal business is a lot harder than running illegal one. With legal business there are laws/regulations and there is competition. When you run drug business and competitor show up you just take a gun and eliminate your competitor (simplifying here of course). Another thing is that you will get respect from a lot people in certain circles and a lot will fear you if you've built successful crime organization. It's a lot harder to get that running pharma business. Why do you think people like Escobar didn't just retire having hundreds millions of dollars? Sometimes its not all about the money in the end game. They do invest in legal businesses to launder money most of the time. Being on top of large criminal organization is intoxicating just like having power is.
- paulie_a 8y ago
  Nicky Barnes made the cover of a NY times magazine making the violent drug dealer look respectable.
drawkbox 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

onetimemanytime 8y ago

Russia can probably control their mafia. At least convince them not to touch "civilians": Meh, just a bunch on mafiosi killing each other. But if 12 headless people are found hanging from the town's main bridge, that's different, people will be scared.

paulie_a 8y ago
The Russian government is a mafia, we just call them oligarchs. If one gets a little uppity he gets whacked. The leader is worth 50 billion dollars. It's the sopranos on steroids and has nuclear weapons.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  Yeah but my point was that Mexican cartels are so openly brutal and that effects everything. Yeah, Russian government and mafia are one, but it's done differently.
  - paulie_a 8y ago
    I don't see the difference, openly poisoning people is pretty brutal too. Or shooting journalists in the street seems fairly brutal.
- InLispWeTrust 8y ago
  Through out it's history Russia has been far worse without a strong Sorpano at the top. Putin may me worth 50 or 150B and he came to power by blowing a few apartment blocks, but pensions, life expectancy, standard of living have sharply risen during his reign. Maybe if the strongest cartel leader came to power in Mexico, he'd be able to eliminate most of the crime, but USA wouldn't allow that.