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Uber Scam in Brazil – Drivers Have ‘Challenges’ Ending Trips
- yial 8y agoIt might be a hope that people on vacation have enough velocity to miss the charge as they might be using Uber frequently and not notice until they are back in their home country. Or that the effort involved is so great that people write off the ~$100 or odd so dollars that the scam cost them.
- itake 8y agoto the driver's perspective, they may of just wasted 4 hours driving around in time, fuel, and wear and tear if its successful, that seems like a big risk.
- yial 8y agoI’m not super familiar with Uber’s signup, but I was once interested in just seeing the details of it as a driver. I ended up with two approved accounts by accident. Albeit one was for Uber eats and the other for Uber driving. But they were not appreciably different. Disclaimer: I never actually performed any rides or deliveries on the platform. At least not at the juncture. I had quite some time previously done it for a few days during concert “surges”.
- Jommi 8y agoSign-up is wildly different in different areas
- snaky 8y agoWouldn't faking the GPS data be enough?
- disiplus 8y agoidk, you can fake the GPS to show you on another location very easily, but to scam a drive, as in following a road at some speed you would need a custom application that can do that.
- snaky 8y agoSure, but considering demand for such an app among the drivers, I would imagine the dozen of apps are competing on Brazil market.
- usrusr 8y agoThose four hours would be spent driving for customers on other networks, or for cash. I can't imagine that Uber did not have a solution for this all these years since we seem to only be seeing reports now. But I could easily imagine stuff like that getting lost over time when there is sufficient turnaround in the department of "moving fast and breaking things". If there even are people who have the explicit responsibility of making sure that the company's basic business formula is kept intact, they will be the ridiculed naysayers in an environment of yes-men.
- ohyes 8y agoYou get a bad rating and get fired as a driver, presumably. My guess is that the pay is now so bad that Uber can’t find enough drivers so bad drivers go unpunished.
- chrisseaton 8y ago> people on vacation have enough velocity to miss the charge What does ‘velocity’ mean in this context?
- walshemj 8y agoLots of spending I think they mean the overcharge gets lost in the noise
- jaclaz 8y agoI may add that the payments (or prices) in local money often confuses foreigners, besides not having enough "reference points" to understand if - all in all - the fare is correct, they may also be confused by the exchange rate, (reserved to non-Brazilians/people not familiar with the country): quick, how many US dollars are R$78.50? and 42.80?
- yial 8y agoThat they’re spending frequently enough and in large enough amounts that they may not notice, nor have the time to question and reconcile.
- invalidusernam3 8y agoI've had something similar happen to me. I caught an uber across town and 5 minutes after being dropped off I saw the trip hadn't ended (I was trying to order another Uber). I cancelled the trip so it ended, and contacted Uber support. They refused to refund me anything since the additional charge incurred while the driver was cruising around on my tab was "within the estimated trip cost" So basically they said I would have been charged the same amount regardless since the cost displayed before taking a trip is an estimate, and it only increases if it goes above the estimate. This means they're over charging for long trips since you pay the estimated price even if the trip cost is lower than the estimate. I'm not sure if Uber works the same everywhere, this was in South Africa.
- chaz6 8y agoSurely they can see from the location data provided by yours and their phones, that you have diverged? The system should detect this automatically.
- sly010 8y agoI thought the same, but people often order Ubers for each other, or share a ride where the payer party gets out first. A more useful feature would be to make payments subject to a confirmation and don't allow the costumer to request a new ride until payment has been made (or disputed). You already have to leave review and (skip) tip after every ride anyway.
- wut42 8y agoHappened to me in Paris. Same reply from the Uber support, but I’m pretty sure I paid around 30€ more than needed. They kept refusing: I deleted my account.
- netsharc 8y agoSounds like a victory for them. Isn't that the way Airbnb works too if the renters trash your apartment? Airbnb would offer you maybe $50 for $2000 worth of damages/clean up, and keep dicking you around (maybe change it to $100) until you give up and accept.
- lanevorockz 8y agoBrazil has serious no go zones, some areas can get you killed just for trespassing. Anyways, that's probably why this feature even exists. Good part is that lots of Brazilians are tech savvy ( on a much higher rate than in US ), so this would fail quite frequently. My guess is that Uber will record drivers that commit fraud and they would be affected over time. One point, taxi drivers are famous for making way worse frauds than what they do at Uber and with no way for you to file a complaint. Peace
- netsharc 8y agoHeh, Uber's new motto: it's a less terrible scammy taxi experience!
- fjsolwmv 8y agoIt sounds bad but it's actually good -- competition is causing inprovement. Rome wasn't built in a day.
- drb91 8y agoAhh yes competition between VC funds and the enterprising entrepeneurs of Rio.
- shiburizu 8y agoThis is a real problem in latin American countries where the taxi system is broken and run by ignorant older men (often with state subsidy) that provide inadequate service. Pleasant then, that the government likes to block said VC funds (Costa Rica).
- DKnoll 8y agoNot to be pedantic but every country has places you can get killed for trespassing.
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- krn 8y ago> Did the driver really think that I wouldn’t request Uber to fix the fare, however cumbersome the process might be? I am pretty sure, that in 70-80% of the cases Uber drivers end up unchallenged by foreigners in Brazil. Taxi scams in Rio de Janeiro are a norm even if you take a metered taxi from a local company, as long as you don't speak Portuguese. A few years ago I was taken on a 3x longer ride than needed, and it didn't help that I was pointing to the driver that he is going to the opposite direction from the route Google Maps was showing on my phone. When I finally reached the home of my Brazilian friend, she couldn't believe how much I paid for the trip and how long it was.
- zac23or 8y ago> as long as you don't speak Portuguese No. The same thing happened to me and my friends, everyone speaks Portuguese.
- krn 8y agoThat's even more worrisome, then. I didn't have any problems, when I took the same trip with the local friend, and the taxi drivers even laughed when she told them, how much I had previously paid.
- forinti 8y agoRio cab drivers are the worst. I hate going to Rio because you simply can't escape people trying to con you all the time. Brasilia and São Paulo are a lot better in this aspect.
- zorked 8y agoAmen to that. And it's not just cab drivers. Their culture explains a lot about the state of things in the city/state.
- jopsen 8y agoWith Uber at least you can give the driver a low rating, which will eventually kick them off the platform.
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- rwmj 8y agoWhy couldn't he add a comment when he was in Brazil?
- drdaeman 8y agoThe app shows and hides different options based on the country. I haven't run into any scams or asked for refunds while travelling, but I guess this was the case for the refund comment field.
- sschueller 8y agoIt's somehow funny how all these abuses are occurring in an industry that had rules put in place to prevent exactly that from happening. Same goes for hotels. Sure maybe the rules need updating but using a loop hole to just completely ignore all of them and the having its users complain about 'unfair business practices' is just mind boggling. Uber is becoming the mob 2.0
- polskibus 8y agoThat's what they call 'disruption'.
- dpatru 8y agoOther comments here indicate that Uber scams are not as bad as taxi scams.
- JustSomeNobody 8y agoDoes that matter? They’re still scamming and that’s bad.
- jopsen 8y agoYes, things can be better without being perfect. Don't let perfection get in the way of improvement. Plus, with uber you can easily give a low rating, then drivers will disappear from the platform within long. This is why behavior like this isn't widespread, and why it's better than taxis..
- soneca 8y agoDefinitely not. I live in São Paulo, where the situation is much better than Rio, for example, but still. With Uber you have a much lower probability of being scammed and a much higher probability of getting your money back after it (with taxis the probability of getting your money back is basically zero). And by the way the probability of being scammed at all increases not only by being a foreigner, it increases only by being from another place and not knowing the city. There are dozens of cases of friends of mine born in São Paulo who got scammed by taxi drivers in RJ. With Uber/Cabify/99 this became much less common.
- microtherion 8y agoSame happened to me with Lyft in the US once. It's not out of the question that this was a genuine oversight on the part of the driver in my case.
- twfarland 8y agoBrazil is becoming a parody of itself
- reese_john 8y agoCounterpoint: I live in Rio de Janeiro and this has never happened to me. In fact I've requested fare reviews several times(bad routing) and the customer service has been nothing but stellar.
- soneca 8y ago"Did the driver really think that I wouldn’t request Uber to fix the fare, however cumbersome the process might be?" I assume a lot of (business) travelers use the company's Uber account and don't care much about an extra USD10. Still, these apps' review system, GPS recording, and payback process make them much, much, much better than the regular taxi in Brazil. Specially in Rio.
- raverbashing 8y agoSo the question is: why is the "uberspy" Uber app not cancelling the ride once rider and car are not on the same location anymore?
- hef19898 8y agoWhich is very good question indeed.
- zbentley 8y agoBecause the rider may not have the Uber app installed, or be associated with the trip in any way according to Uber's systems.
- prostoalex 8y agoJust from personal anecdotal experience I can point a couple of legitimate cases: 1) Calling an Uber for someone else. 2) When traveling abroad with no data plan, I'd use hotel WiFi to call up a vehicle, but then lose the connectivity as soon as I got in the vehicle. Unlike the experience described in the article, the quote provided at the dispatch time was fixed, not an estimate, so overcharging was never an issue.
- raverbashing 8y agoYes, but 1) driver and requester would become distant at the start of the ride, not at the end 2) disconnections are different from detecting a distance and you would usually get a connection (some time) after you left the vehicle. Maybe the user could have a "terminate ride now" button (which is subject to abuses as well, but might be a better user experience)
- PeterisP 8y agoWhen we're calling a cab/uber/whatever to go home from a party for multiple people, each person will get dropped off in a different place, and the one who ordered the ride may not be the furthest destination and last one off.
- MorrisofOrange 8y agoThis probably works because most foreigners are traveling on business and get reimbursed by their company.They don't care if the trip is under a certain amount.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 8y agoI don't understand why this happens (often enough to be a serious problem). Uber should be motivated to catch and stop this because the extra revenue from the scams is almost certainly not worth the loss of users that will result. It should also be easy for Uber to detect this since they collect location data from both phones. Sure, one of the two could be faking the data, but they could check both traces for plausibility (this might be why they collect location data even for a few minutes after the trip has ended - to get a baseline), and even if they don't apply any advanced smarts, it should be easy to check whether a driver got caught doing this repeatedly with unrelated customers. Is it just drivers trying it without realizing that it is unlikely to benefit them in the long term, or Uber being bad at their job?
- marsrover 8y agoSeems like Uber should track the distance of the rider’s phone from the distance to the driver’s phone.
- jaked89 8y agoThis is not unique to Uber, ordinary taxis do it all the time, globally. If anything, Uber should be more equipped (in theory) to deal with it, as it has an open review system.
- philip1209 8y agoWhat happens if you are in the right in a dispute against Uber, support refuses to refund the ride, and you issue a chargeback? Do you get perma-banned? I've often wondered this, eg with Airbnb.
- kalecserk 8y agoPretty sure it will get you banned from their services. Source: work with payment systems
- forinti 8y agoI stopped using Cabify because their drivers would park a few blocks from the pickup point and wait for me to cancel the ride.
- stpe 8y agoWhen reaching my destination, the Uber-driver said: "Give me 5 stars and I'll give you 5 stars". I questioned that practice and said I will give my rating in due time. The driver got upset and started to rant about how I never would be able to request an Uber again because he would give me a 1-star rating if I didn't rated him 5 at once...
- brianwawok 8y agoI think for the good of the system you agree to swap 5 but really do 1. Ratings only work if the bad guys get dinged.
- dawnerd 8y agoAnd then tell Uber why you left a 1 Star when it asks. Why more people don’t report bad drivers, I don’t know.
- s73v3r_ 8y agoUsually in that situation, you both show your phones, to show you're doing it.
- codedokode 8y agoThe driver can ask to show your screen when giving the rating.
- notatcomputer68 8y agoI believe uber supports revising ratings so you could show a five and take it away later.
- rickyc091 8y agoI'm going to give some newer drivers the benefit of the doubt about how Uber works. I requested a driver from the airport once, and he didn't seem very sure how to navigate around the city. The GPS was a bit spotty going in and out at times, so he had to rely on memory. When he finally dropped me off, the fare kept going. He only stopped the fare when he arrived back at the airport. My guess is the new driver was doing airport runs thinking he would get the money for the whole route, from and to the airport.
- dawnerd 8y agoSame thing happened to me with lyft last week in Orlando. Not only did the driver take the longest route but never ended the fare. https://photos.app.goo.gl/mPZayvcX93CvnZ1fA https://photos.app.goo.gl/mPZayvcX93CvnZ1fA Was actually dropped off on the left. Lyft was really fast about correcting it and giving credit. Lesson here is make sure you have an idea what the fare should cost.
- aspett 8y agoI had an identical experience on an almost identical route a month ago. The lyft driver didn't stop the fare after dropping off at the hotel, making the final charge over $50. Thankfully Lyft amended the trip to reflect the true destination and it was resolved very quickly.
- forapurpose 8y agoIt's an interesting side-effect of Uber's low-friction payment system. In a taxi, it can't happen because the driver must end the trip in order to process your payment - friction helps in some ways. I'm not saying Uber should discard their low-friction system, but they need to engineer it so that the fraud is as impossible as it is in a taxi. Another point: If the fraud was going the other way, if it was costing Uber money, then I expect the problem would have been solved long before it reached the attention of HN. It's like the old story (or maybe urban myth) of supermarket checkout barcode scanners - the supermarkets argued that the error rate was normal, until someone pointed out that a large majority of the errors were in the supermarkets' favor. Oops! but not oops.
- Natsu 8y agoAnd here I thought it was bad when they tried to get you to pay a few hundred more BRL up front for a trip from SP to Santos. Also, nobody seems very clear on the point that the trip seems to include the toll you may face going between them. To say nothing of whether your driver has enough gas for this trip and needs gas money. That drive can be very interesting when you're going on fumes. Yeah, it's interesting. I suggest carrying some extra cash (but not too much) if there are places you need to be. If it's something you can schedule, there are private drivers that cost a bit more but you can arrange things up front.
- jonathanjaeger 8y agoThis happened to me in Rio last month. They requested I write in Portuguese and luckily I was with someone who does (and didn't need a bad Google translate conversation). I got refunded right away for what it's worth. It's pretty aggravating the driver did this to someone who tipped them at the end of the ride very generously.. wonder if I also got a bad rating too.
- Razengan 8y agoThis is also a common struggle in South Asia and the Middle East as well.
- elchief 8y agoGee, I wonder why cities instituted licenses for cab drivers...
- dreampeppers99 8y agoI live in Brazil and I use Uber for years this never happened to me.
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- IkmoIkmo 8y agoHad this experience in Western Europe as well, but Uber refunded me on short notice (after me asking).