20 ms·

The reverse job applicant

518 points by middlegeek 16y ago

Clarification: This is not me, I stumbled upon this site.

eru 16y ago
A relevant title might have been better than an apology.
wazoox 16y ago
Not bad, and very funny. In case he plans to work in web dev, publishing valid HTML would be a plus :)
Kliment 16y ago
And why not? Sounds like he'd love to work at a startup, and can program.
AlexC04 16y ago
I liked it. Hope you hear you've found something. I do think that you will need links to some technologies you've built. If you don't have anything built yet, why not get started? Since you're out of work why not start with something simple (a "facemash" clone for pokemon?? wait, don't do that, I want that one now. oh who am I kidding? the market can bear a dozen facemash for pokemon clones) I went to see the social network the other day and there was one line that knocked my socks off (wish I'd known it when I was fresh out of uni) "We encourage students to create their jobs rather than find them" Instead of looking for work, why not get started on making your own work? Will code for food. :) Good luck! Let us know when you've found something!
- thewordpainter 16y ago
  "We encourage students to create their jobs rather than find them" - i agree it was one of the better lines in the movie, but i am not sure i believe harvard actually possesses that mentality. stanford? probably. hardvard? probably not. i've heard a number of times (and believe) that the most successful entrepreneurs are often the B-student rebels that manage to hire the A+ students for their startups.
  - AlexC04 16y ago
    yeah - I wanted to get the quote right so I googled first. "we will offer our students the ability to land the job of their dreams or create it." http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2010/02/09_hls.venture.fund.html http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2010/02/09_hls.venture.fund.... At the end of the day, I think it's mostly irrelevant where they say it (Havard, Stanford, Berkley, Carleton, all, none, who cares?) - it's the sentiment that really matters.
- middlegeek 16y ago
  Thanks but I should have been more clear--this is not me. I submitted this because it seemed like an idea HM would like and be inspired by.
- MartinCron 16y ago
  the market can bear a dozen facemash for pokemon clones Clearly what's needed is a comprehensive registry of facemash-for-pokemon clones. I would suggest that he get on that project.
vital101 16y ago
This is how most talented people get jobs. I have a resume on a two job portals, and (not to toot my own horn) I get job offers several times a week. I'm already happily employed, but the point is that I never look for work yet it still comes to me. Best of luck on your ventures!
brockf 16y ago
I don't get it. What does he do?
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- jlgosse 16y ago
  Marketing and Video Games & Animation I assume!
krmmalik 16y ago
I love it. Sincerely, i can say this, that if i was in a position to, i'd definitely hire you. But i have something of interest to impart to you. Im from a background of arranged marriages (yes, im ok with it) and my parents are currently looking for a suitor for me. I've been rejected by ALOT of girls, and have been through almost the exact same thought process as you. I'd gotten to the point of grovelling, being content with anything that comes my way, but now i'm realising and very quickly that i actually have a lot to offer, and the girls should be begging to come to me. So henceforth begins my reverse marriage proposal! ;-) Maybe i should do a blog post!
- mayank 16y ago
  > So henceforth begins my reverse marriage proposal! Careful, that might be confused with "arrogant douchebag". What you look for in a for-profit company aimed at maximizing profits is not necessarily what you'd want in a husband. For example, you probably wouldn't want to "work with a team" to solve intimate marital issues. Which raises the larger point about this article, and hundreds of other charmingly idiosyncratic applications -- they certainly are refreshing, but may not always be received in the best way. Sometimes professionalism goes a long way. This isn't your college application essay.
  - StavrosK 16y ago
    You'd be better off posting your github URL, I guess.
  - thirdstation 16y ago
    "Sometimes professionalism goes a long way. " I didn't see anything I'd call unprofessional in his application. People with jobs often feel overly entitled to define what constitutes professionalism. (NB, I'm not addressing you personally, just the amorphous "they".) To me, the larger point of the article is how difficult in can be to break through the arbitrary and diverse standards each HR department and hiring manager has. Sometimes it just feels better to state what you want and hope they find you.
  - mfukar 16y ago
Robin_Message 16y ago
This is a nice idea, with one big BUT. Not to rain on the parade here, but you've been unemployed for two years and all you have to show for it is a funny reverse job application. Sadly, it doesn't show what your actual skills are, nor whether you have ever produced something of value for anyone. These are more or less prerequisites to getting a good job. Go look at http://jacquesmattheij.com/My+list+of+ideas+for+when+you+are+looking+for+inspiration http://jacquesmattheij.com/My+list+of+ideas+for+when+you+are... and pick one. Or come up with another idea. Then build a website that does it. Find some freelance work on the back of that. Something small that can show off your talents. Rinse, repeat. Either you'll start applying to jobs again and get accepted on the basis of your demonstratable skill, someone will give you a job (which you'll have earned,) or you'll be one of the cool consultant-entrpreneur-successes. As you know, rejection sucks, but the worst thing is the social proof it is against you. I'm thinking to myself "there must be something wrong with this guy, so many people didn't hire him, there must be a reason." Do some things that prove you are a success and people will hire you. You've been unlucky, but sometimes you gotta make your own luck. This is an admirable attempt, but if you want me to believe you are the kind of creative achiever you say you are, you need to do more than say it. You can do it! EDIT: Damm. As halaric points out, his personal web page does list these things. It still needs at least a direct link and preferably a mention on the application page though.
- halaric 16y ago
  There's a link to his personal site which includes resumes at the bottom. I guess he's hoping that the uninterested employers will self-select.
  - brosephius 16y ago
    wait, it's the employer's job to dig for your resume? this "reverse job app" gives me no substantive data on what this guy's skills are, so why would I even bother? if you want a job, it's your responsibility to make the case for why you're worth hiring.
    - v21 16y ago
Ripst 16y ago
If you do not get an awesome job within the next 24 hours, the world is in a sad sad state. Fingers crossed here.
- yeahisaidit 16y ago
  :) I think it was awesome. Hope someone hires him. Then the rest of us will have some hope
shrikant 16y ago
The form validation error messages are interesting, too :-) In case Andrew Horner reads this: yes, I'm one of the people (assuming there are more such curious folks) that filled in junk info to take a peek at those error messages. Sorry!
- blaines 16y ago
  * Nice try at anonymity, but I'm going to need a name. * Oh, you're unemployed too? * Not sure how you expect me to respond without this. * Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but that doesn't seem like an actual e-mail address. * Let's not take any chances here. * You're either a terrible typist or a poor listener. Make sure your email address matches in both fields. * Hey, if you don't know what to call the job, I'm not sure I want to be doing it. * SOUNDS INTERESTING. Wait, you didn't write anything here.
  - gvb 16y ago
    > You're either a terrible typist or a poor listener. Make sure your email address matches in both fields. I would humbly suggest "Oh, I see you haven't mastered cut'n'paste yet."
- loup-vaillant 16y ago
  Turning off JavaScript (I run noscript) works just as well (though it took me time to realize they actually were error messages).
thewordpainter 16y ago
article is definitely entertaining. i would personally recommend a hybrid approach to the traditional job board postings and the 'reverse job application.' i believe the best opportunities come from the ones you seek out. don't wait for job postings. many of the best communities recruit from within. get in their network! tell them you want to work for them! they may not have a spot open at that precise moment, but when you leave an impression like that (how often are they approached on a whim?), they'll be pretty inclined to think of you when a position opens up...or they might just open one up specifically for you :) -adam
albertcardona 16y ago
I did a reverse job application once. I put a "hire me" link in my webpage, leading to 3 sentences about what I wanted. It worked--the webpage presented a small piece of software, and I was hired to write a bigger version of it. It led to my current job today.
sachitgupta 16y ago
Susan (from Seth Godins six month MBA program) did something similar: http://main.susanhiresaboss.com/ http://main.susanhiresaboss.com/
- sethg 16y ago
  I like this one better than the OP, because the front page gets straight to the point: “Hi. I'm Susan. My superpower is getting things done. It's an exceedingly rare and critical superpower. I battle the agent of chaos. I overdeliver. I delight. I amaze. And I'm looking for a place in need of a superhero like me.” That’s a 30-second elevator speech in 10 seconds. By comparison, I have to scroll halfway through the original posting to get to an “About Me” section to find out what the author thinks his qualifications are, and they include stuff like “perfectly capable of obtaining my own snacks and beverages” and “usually wearing clothes”. Har har har. Now tell me, as a potential employer, why I should pay you money.
  - sachitgupta 16y ago
    I agree. And at what point is this ingenious, rather than copying something that's already been done?
citricsquid 16y ago
This is one of those things that will work once because of the novelty, but not again. Who really is willing to hire someone based off of nothing but speak? Maybe if he attached this to his work (cool things he has built?) maybe it would work, but all I know about this guy after reading his site is: - He went to college - He can't find a job - He is a programmer beyond that I know nothing, why would I hire him? Sure this might work this once because it's a ballsy "viral" idea (it's here, if that's proof enough) but it isn't sustainable which is what some people seem to see it as.
- andrew1 16y ago
  Well, presumably if someone was considering hiring him based on this there would be some kind of interview process before he's hired.
chegra 16y ago
His resume: http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pdf http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pd... * For your level of experience, Everything should fit on a page. * Take out the operating system part. They can infer them by the languages you use. * Take out high school * Create a section for awards and list them there * Take out familiar with MatLab and Latex * For each project give a link to a screen-shot or working project and ensure those links work * Take out techniques, they should be able to infer them from the projects you did. *The main point is show what you have done
- jonpaul 16y ago
  While I appreciate the ingenuity of reverse job application, by looking at his resume I'm not surprised that he hasn't been hired. You're right, he needs to make it one page. I would put an objective, and I don't mean some BS objective, but a real heartfelt objective. Also, experience needs to go first. Each piece of 'experience' should detail what he did and MOST IMPORTANTLY its impact.
- cemregr 16y ago
  I agree about changing the layout to make it fit on one page. But I wouldn't remove high school. He's done IB, which is way more challenging than regular high school. It's a straight admissions ticket to many top universities, some even let you skip the freshman year entirely based on what you took with IB. It's unfortunately not as widely recognized in the US than elsewhere in the world.
  - achompas 16y ago
    But he's looking for jobs after college. High school, for this guy, was 5-6 years ago! Even if he took IB or AP courses...so what? Tons of people have taken IB/AP courses. A company won't decide to hire you based on your high school marks.
  - bean__ 16y ago
    I did admission at a liberal arts college, and IB didn't even impress us. It certainly wouldn't impress me in trying to hire someone. I want someone with enough sense to know that high school doesn't belong on the C.V.
middlegeek 16y ago
Submitter here: This is not my site! I am not the person doing the reverse job application. I stumbled upon the site and thought the mindset was something HN would like and possibly get inspiration from.
- tomedme 16y ago
  How did you stumble across it?
  - middlegeek 16y ago
    I can't remember if someone sent it to me or if I saw it on another aggregate suite. Probably the latter.
- thirdstation 16y ago
  Appreciated! And on-topic IMHO. An entrepreneurial effort on the site owner's behalf.
charlief 16y ago
Nice post, but openings for awesome jobs are the scarce resource, not people to fill them.
- LargeWu 16y ago
  In my experience hiring people, there are a lot more good job openings available than even competent developers to fill those roles.
scott_s 16y ago
It's one thing to not want to list buzzwords. It's something else entirely to make no mention at all of what kind of a job you're looking for, or even what kind of a job you'd be good at. I assumed he wasn't a developer of any kind until I got to his list of "I won't." (I followed his link at the bottom to his real page and confirmed there that he is a software developer.)
- thirdstation 16y ago
  To me, it seems like he's looking more for personal fit than a specific job. On his personal site he says he wants to be a jack-of-all-trades. As one myself, I know he'll have a tough time finding a job using the traditional approach. It's rare to see a job posting for a generalist but, everywhere I've worked had one.
  - scott_s 16y ago
    But a generalist in what area. My first thought was he was looking for a job in the advertising industry, based on the page itself. He gives no indication what he wants to do. Even saying "I design things" eliminates, say, accounting.
    - thirdstation 16y ago
      Violent agreement. Focusing on one thing dramatically increases your chance of success, and makes it easier for folks looking for that specific thing to identify you. Mr. Horner's site seems even more reverse than a reverse application - does that make sense? He seems to be saying, "First, decide if you like ME. Then, decide if you have a job for me." EDIT: I should have said "industry" instead of "thing" in my second sentence. He's stated he wants to be a generalist, not a specialist. He would fare better by targeting a specific industry.
      - scott_s 16y ago
        That I certainly agree with - the industry point. He probably has an industry in mind, but he has not communicated that at all.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
danielnicollet 16y ago
This a great idea. While the resume isn't too precise as to what the specific skills Andrew has to offer, he demonstrates a great one creativity, good writing and high motivation. I predict he is going to get at least a few advertising and marketing job offers... Good luck Andrew!
jasonlotito 16y ago
> Possess strong written, verbal and interpersonal communication skills. If you can't tell the difference between "you're" and "your", your never going to be able to get you're points across to me. I can't tell if he's doing this intentionally to make a point, or it's just an honest error. Still, it's amusing.
- sofal 16y ago
  Looks like you missed his second intentional mistake in the same sentence.
- nihilocrat 16y ago
  It's definitely an intentional joke.
- nocman 16y ago
  If he had only screwed up the the "your" you pointed out (as in "you're never...") it might be a humorous mistake. But he intentionally screwed up both -- he also said "able to get you're points across". BTW, thank's for pointing this out. I read that point so fast that I completely missed the joke (which would have been unfortunate).
ramidarigaz 16y ago
I know a lot of people on here are saying that this would backfire horribly. I'm sure this would turn away quite a few potential employers. That said, I know several people who would be thrilled to find somebody like this.
pcampbell 16y ago
You should try offering a Reward for successful placement at www.CareerElement.com Also, we are having a startup career fair in Berkeley on November 2nd. You guys should all come! You can register at www.careerelement.com/jobfair
jaspalsawhney 16y ago
Any thing is worth a shot in my opinion - its not like you have not tried any other options so I think that this is a great way to make yourself known. Best of luck.
xpaulbettsx 16y ago
If he was really clever he'd have a Google Analytics link in there so he can track who's visiting :-/
- bsk 16y ago
  He can get that more reliably (ad blockers stop GA) from his web server logs.
  - zackattack 16y ago
    give me a break. the vast majority of personal sites are on shared webhosts who don't give clean access to access_log files (etc.) moreover, it's a pain to parse files anyway.
RyanMcGreal 16y ago
I hate to be That Guy, but HTML Tidy tells me his page has 26 errors, mostly related to proper nesting of elements. It's just too easy to make sure your HTML is valid to let his "Attention to Detail" commitment slide.
- 3ds 16y ago
  True, on the other hand, including a doctype still makes sense to avoid quirks mode. (There'd be less errors if he'd use html5 doctype though.) And as long as it renders properly in A-grade browsers you're good to go.
  - RyanMcGreal 16y ago
    That's true right up until it isn't, i.e. when you're struggling to understand why your javascript is producing subtly buggy behaviour.
    - ryanc 16y ago
      I hate to be that guy but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases:_I#id_est http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases:_I#id_est
      - RyanMcGreal 16y ago
        I know what i.e. means. The benefit to valid markup is specifically for ensuring that the javascript you write to manipulate the DOM works properly.
TWAndrews 16y ago
I like the idea and creative approach, but I'd like to know a bit about what your skills are. It not in the theme of the site to put up a resume, but you need to give me an idea whether or not you're somebody I'd want to hire as a developer, or to work in marketing.
kingkawn 16y ago
Nice link, but the title used to post here is empty of any information.
MtL 16y ago
I wouldn't hire the guy. He does not communicate well what he does and what kind of position he is looking for, he spends a couple of paragraphs telling the world how useless he is, and he did not show any initiative to start something himself while he was unemployed. Nice try, but it's not sufficient to convince me.
eyeareque 16y ago
I like his attempt, and hope he succeeds. After looking at his resume I can see why he isn't getting any calls. That is a disgusting resume layout. He really needs to make something more professional, and to the point. As a lot of people said, his attempt hasn't impressed them. However, you have to remember that he only wants one job, so that means he only needs to impress one person in order to reach his goal.
andjones 16y ago
well done sir, well done
run4yourlives 16y ago
If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. I would encourage you to correct this, as it is a mistake. I know it's tongue in cheek, but my god does the current generation not have any humility at all? This is going to ruin your world view, so brace yourself: You are not fucking special in any way shape or form. Even if you graduated with the best marks in MIT and have been programming since the womb, guess what? So have people every single graduating year for the past 20 fricken years. The only constant in your never ending job search is - wait for it - YOU. Get over yourself. You are not entitled to anything. You are the lowest of the low, and have proved nothing to anyone that matters. Start the journey at the beginning. And Yes, you are at the beginning. Your accomplishments so far are shared by every single person in the work force. Be humble and gracious until you actually distinguish yourself.
- astrofinch 16y ago
  Hm. 'Fraid I don't see what a sense of entitlement has to do with the difficulty of picking up new programming languages.
  - chaostheory 16y ago
    (Assuming he wants a technical job) not bothering to show proof of being proactive and learning a language in the two years he was out of work: posting an example of his work ala open source project or failed startup This can also apply in other ways too (graphic design, web design, charitable organization activities, etc...) My point is that I don't see a portfolio other than a single short story example.
  - ramchip 16y ago
    Programming languages can't all be picked up that quickly, since semantics may differ a lot. You can't say "Give me any programming task and I'll pick it up". What if you're a Web guy and the task is a C++ medical application? What if we're a finance company and the language is Haskell or ML? There's no way someone with no experience in a related language could become proficient without a fairly long training period in the company. What if I'm a hardware IP company and the language is Verilog? To pretend that what takes many years and domain knowledge to become proficient in, you could just "pick up" on the go, is what sounds a bit entitled to me.
hop 16y ago
Your resume could be part of the problem - http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pdf http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pd... Some constructive criticism: Thats a lot of ink to print that out, drop the black and grey banners. Try using a resume theme from Pages or Word for a start and just use black fonts on a white background. Use Myriad Pro or something more modern than Arial. Make it one page. Your first entry shouldn't be that you can use OSX and WinXP, my mom can do that. Drop "Proficient in...", it sounds like you just know enough to get by. I would also drop your high school info to be more concise. Your HS GPA says "4.58 (weighted out of 4.0)" Either its bad math or its not out of 4. And I would switch up your order of things - employment, education, skills & projects combined. Good luck!
- middlegeek 16y ago
  Thanks, I hope Andrew is reading this but I am not him. I submitted it because I appreciated the ingenuity and thought HN would as well.
- gammarator 16y ago
  Weighted GPAs can be higher than 4.0: A+ grades in advanced courses are often given 5.0 points, and so on.
  - treeface 16y ago
    I had a system like this in my high school too, but technically it's not "out of 4.0". The maximum possible grade is usually dependent on what courses the student takes. For example, if you took an "honors" course, an A would get you 4.5, B would be 3.5, etc. If you took a "high honors" or "AP" course, A would be 5, B would be 4, etc. If you know what classes you took, you can calculate your maximum score possible. If he had said he got a 4.4 (or whatever) out of 4.6, it would convey more information than what he said on his resume for two reasons: 1) It would tell the employer at roughly what rate he took harder courses than he had to (this would be especially true if he somehow found the school's average maximum GPA). 2) It would tell the employer the actual ratio of his grades to the maximum possible score.
FreeRadical 16y ago
I wonder if 37signals have replied yet
bretthellman 16y ago
That's a rough beat. Way to keep at it... I found it interesting to hear how you're frustrated with recruiters not calling you back but then you're not going to respond to every job offer you receive. I'd rethink that. Don't close doors. Also, I didn't notice a mention of networking to find opportunities. Did you talk to your friends that landed jobs for introductions? Best of luck.
EGreg 16y ago
The fact is, it's often not the skills that get you noticed, but a unique stunt, like Atomic Tom on the train the other day, or what you did. Congrats. However, there is a way to get a lot of job offers. Just post your resume to the job boards and the employers WILL find you. Ether market yourself, or find someone who will. And definitely don't grovel! Til then, start your own business :)
rfugger 16y ago
Nowhere does it say what industry you're looking for work in or what your major was. The only hint of it is your mention of "programming languages".
canterburry 16y ago
If you have been unemployed for 2 years, I would expect you to have an acronym list on your resume longer than anyone with an actual job. Being unemployed can offer HUGE advantages in terms of being completely up to date on the latest and greatest, something most employed people simply don't have the time for. You don't need a job to tech you the tools of the trade so make sure you walk in with those already in your back pocket. There have been plenty of crafty people on HN who have built up a resume with experience by simply offering free services in order to prove they can do something. I would suggest you do the same at this point.
jph98 16y ago
I sympathize. It's horrible being in this position when you first graduate, rest assured - somebody will give you a break, I assure you that. Some advice 1. Clean up your CV, make it look more for professional and less arty. 2. Stress the open source project and dev blog in interviews along with any books/resources and interesting language features/features you're currently using at the moment. 3. Don't wait for somebody to come to you. A good approach is to approach employers directly rather than using recruitment agents or middlemen. You will find somebody who will give a break. Recruitment agents are the scum of the earth, but sometimes very useful - I didn't find them so useful when starting out. 4. You weren't unemployed for two years - I can't stress this enough. You worked on open source projects during that time and learned a whole bunch. Right? Good luck with the job search : )
bfung 16y ago
How about taking this one step further and help other people do a reverse job application, almost head hunter-ish style. You've stated that you're unemployed, so why not employ yourself? The Y Combinator application deadline is today =)
catshirt 16y ago
i'd like to find out who hires andrew.
- ciupicri 16y ago
  I'd like to find out what companies have contacted him. The text from the site might look appealing, but as others have noticed, he doesn't mention his field[1] (is it programming, graphic design, etc.?), his resume is a bit hard to find[2] and it's also full of HR speak[3] (although this might turn out to be an advantage). [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1807937 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1807937 [2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1807094 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1807094 [3] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1808661 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1808661
davidw 16y ago
How did this get twice as many upvotes as patio11's extensive, detailed notes from the Business of Software conference? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1795896 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1795896
- 83457 16y ago
  Brainstorm a few logical reasons this could happen and I'm sure the answer will come to you
- middlegeek 16y ago
  No kidding. I submitted this post on a whim and my karma went from 30 this morning to 473 and is still rising.
ekanes 16y ago
While I agree that stating he's been rejected for 2 years isn't the best opener, many commenters are missing the point. He may not have impressed you specifically, but the fact that this is polarizing is an indicator that it'll probably succeed. Having people love and hate you is a big plus whether or not you're marketing yourself, your product or your company. Much worse if people shrug and move on. Other polarizing examples: Harleys, cruise vacations, the iPad, Crocs sandals and of course avocados. Quite literally, he only needs to impress one person with this.
cloudhead 16y ago
So.. you can doodle? What else? How do I know you even know how to code?
yeahisaidit 16y ago
All of you saying "this is a waste of time", "you wouldn't take a second glance", etc. are contradicting yourselves. If you "wouldn't waste your time reading it" why did you? And why are you taking the time to comment? You're giving this site the exact thing it was meant to get...ATTENTION. It obviously was written with humor and meant to attract attention. I am sure he would give a potential employer his qualifications (and experience) once he got their attention and they asked. If you're taking this THAT seriously (cough, cough, run4yourlives) you're obviously the exact kind of person no one would want to work for! I understand that you're upset you don't quite meet the qualifications. ;)
micheljansen 16y ago
With the risk of sounding redundant: I would never wish to reverse the job seeking process for myself. I prefer to keep my destiny in my own hands and seek out the job I feel best fits my skills and interests. I don't trust potential employers to just magically find me, a single person, and appreciate me for what I am worth. Too many times already I have been approached by recruiters that get triggered by a line in my CV stating that I can do X or have experience using Y and want to hire me to do that for the rest of my life. To all the good recruiters and intermediaries out there, I apologize. I have lost all faith in your profession and feel you treat the companies you represent as the customer and me as the product. Quite frankly, I'd rather pass and take my chances on my own.
- dripton 16y ago
  Of course the company is the customer and you are the product. They pay; you don't. Follow the money.
  - micheljansen 16y ago
    Exactly, the only winning move is not to play.
fara 16y ago
I know a page that already does reverse job applications, it's called LinkedIn.
togasystems 16y ago
What has the writer been doing for two years? He should focus on making something worthwhile. He will gain experience and maybe a little bit of real world knowledge that employers look for.
sequoia 16y ago
I'm interested in finding out whether this guy gets a job. It's all well and good to say he's "entitled" and whatnot but IF he couldn't get a job and now he does, everyone talking shit will have simply been wrong. He states that he has tried the well-worn route and it didn't work so he's trying something else, I see no reason to fault him that. If the pitch seems over the top to you, you've missed the point. He's taking all the hoops and whatnot he's had to jump thru, and turning them on the employer. Besides humor, it serves the purpose of him reasserting his self-worth, after having it torn down by the poor job market. He feels that he's good at what he does and is tired of feeling worthless because jobs are scarce. Where's the harm in that? That said, I think the site is very cute but quite absurd. I know almost nothing about this person. I only figured out that he was a programmer about 3/4 of the way down the page. And I'm just inferring that he's a programmer, he never states what it is that he supposedly does well. If a manager actually saw this and wanted to hire him ("oh hey, that's funny XD"), that would be a VERY bad sign about the company. Places that make decisions in that way are not places you want to work. To paraphrase Groucho Marx: I don't he should work for any company that would grant HIM an interview.
- sequoia 16y ago
  "I MASTERED the use of documentation..." "I MASTERED the ability to combine several strategies..." (my emphasis) Ok, perhaps he could stand to be taken down a peg or two.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
moron4hire 16y ago
All this talk in this thread about "your generation is this, our generation had that" is depressing. When did we, as a society, start characterizing generations of people, beyond the typical old-person-calls-young-person-a-whippersnapper? I'm 28 years old so suddenly I'm a texting, Second-Lifing, flash-mobbing, Will-Ferrel-movie-quoting Democrat? Please, I'll stick to defining my own identity, thanks.
petenixey 16y ago
By making this page potentially applicable to any job the guy has unfortunately made himself inapplicable to every job. Paul Buchheit once said that it's better to make something a few people love than a lot of people like. He said that about apps but it's just as true in a job application. A job application is a sales process. Being clear and resolute about a few of one's killer features is far more persuasive than being non-committal about lots of them.
motters 16y ago
I like his style. The first thing to remember if you're in this kind of situation is that it's not your fault. It's the fault of corrupt bankers and financiers, and maybe a few politicians too, so if you're apportioning blame make sure you place it squarely where it belongs and not on yourself. It may be hard, but try not to let endless rejections knock your confidence. Keep applying and don't give up. If you're persistent and you have some good skills then sooner or later pure chance alone will mean that some kind of lucky(ish) break comes your way, and when it does make sure you seize it.
elai 16y ago
I'd suggest that you generate your own experience if a lack of experience is a problem. Create iPhone apps that find movie listings, create websites that do something, put it on github, create a LinkedIn profiles, (it's a tech recruiter's best friend) and get connections with everyone you know, employed or not. Gain a reputation on IRC channels, stack overflow, forums and other programmer communities. Be willing to take one off contractor jobs that pay relatively low (but higher than some retail cashier job) and see them through to completion. Put all of that in your portfolio website advertising yourself with pictures, resumes, links and other things. Make them without any sort of revenue goal in mind so you don't limit yourself in your creations. You'll be creating experience and if you hit it off on something, might of created your revenue stream. Also non technical people use resume buzzwords as easy way to filter through a undefined mass of people. If you want to make an iphone app, your going to look for someone with iOS, iPhone, Objective-C and mobile in their resumes or portfolios. Even though you might pick it up and get up to speed to an experienced developer in a month or two, it's a month or two in money that they can avoid.
- j1o1h1n 16y ago
  > get up to speed to an experienced developer in a month or two Ho! You are not a fan of the "become an expert in ten years" theory?
lukevdp 16y ago
How about start freelancing? Or start a business? Nobody is "entitled" to a job. Yes, the job market is tough right now, but the reality is, if you're totally awesome at creating value, you're going to get a job. If you think you're totally awesome at creating value and you can't get a job, you're not really totally awesome at creating value (it means other people are more awesome than you) Freelancing is entering the marketplace where you ONLY get paid on your value. If you can't freelance (in the web industry), what makes you think you can make your employer money? Having said that, I think this is a great way for Andrew to stand out and get a job, he obviously knows how to draw attention and be different, he's proven that with the reverse job posting, and best of luck to him.
dools 16y ago
I love it. Let the haters hate. Resumes are totally boring and anyone who can program and draw witty cartoons is going to be an asset. Look how many people know the name Andrew Horner now? This is not the end of a job application process, it's the beginning, and it's a sure fire way to by-pass the HR gatekeepers and go straight to the decision makers. Obviously, as an employer, you would go through the same sorts of evaluation process to try and figure out if he can actually do anything - just the same as you would with any other employee (as if you can trust what someone has on their resume anyway!) I only wish I made enough money to hire this guy and enough work to keep him busy. And enough money to afford office space in which I could install a whiteboard on which he could draw a different cartoon every day. Maybe I should do a REVERSE REVERSE job application so that he begs ME to come and work for my company!!! Check MATE Horner!
risotto 16y ago
Getting a job is about networking. My little brother graduated this past summer from University with an gasp Anthropology degree and he has 3 job offers to decide from. The big difference is that he schmoozed the shit out of his TAs and professors for the past couple years. His advisors were basically falling over recommending him to their peers. I doubt this reverse job application will work. Networking with friends and peers will.
jiganti 16y ago
Why doesn't he just implement ideas? Man, what I would've done to have the technical expertise just a few years ago that I now have to outsource.
FiddlerClamp 16y ago
My experience with an unusual resume: Fed up with the way that Monster forced candidates to break down their resumes into tiny text boxes (this was back in 2000), I wrote a narrative that could fit into those boxes. Eventually I strung it together properly and created a resume-sized PDF (see http://www.scribd.com/doc/39705569?secret_password=1jlyubhcypk6kp9p0spf http://www.scribd.com/doc/39705569?secret_password=1jlyubhcy...). Results? One guy hired me on the spot -- a marketing consultant who was working on his own. Since that one job, I've sent it out many, many times, and have received maybe 1 or 2 responses out of hundreds. I think it's well-written, but I can see it rubbing people the wrong way because of its attitude and because it's not easily scannable like a regular resume. That said, since I was looking for work in marketing and tech, I'm surprised more people weren't interested in following up. * I am employed now, so this isn't a resume-spamming post. :)
noarchy 16y ago
The lack of completed projects in the last two years is a blinking red light. This just makes it look like an unexplained job gap. Two years is plenty of time to have done something, even if it was not paid work.
wittgenstein 16y ago
I think the fact that this made it to the top of HN is unfortunate. This was precisely what the author of the reverse job application intended. Yet, creating a reverse job application web site clearly does not take any significant skill. It is not a ground-breaking idea, or an idea that a common job applicant cannot conceive. Yet, he is now claiming on his resume that his idea went to top of HN, which, ironically, will be viewed by some as a worthy achievement...
scotty79 16y ago
Don't look for a job. Look for task that someone wants to pay to be done. Do it. Get cash. Repeat with increased cash per unit of work until you will be able to pay other people to do some tasks.
heimidal 16y ago
I'm 25 and didn't go to school, but I spend most of my time around those who did. I have many, many friends who are unemployed artists or are business types working less than full-time who would kill for a decent full-time position. That said, I cannot understand how a young, motivated programmer has trouble finding a job. The company I work for in Denver has been looking for Ruby and front-end web developers of all levels, and from all over the country, for months. First priority: make writing code a lifestyle choice. Need a better resume? Write some code -- anything -- and put it on Github. Bored? Write some code and put it on Github. Sick of sending out resumes? Write some code and... you get the idea. Strong candidates love the craft, not just the paycheck. Show pride in your code and prove you'll want to write code at work and at home. Programmers who work at companies that you should actually want to work for are not hired because they have great resumes or went to great colleges. They are hired because they are capable of solving real problems while writing maintainable code. If you can do that, you're an easy hire. This goes for anyone. Want a serious, no-bullshit interview for a job in beautiful Denver (we can help relocate) with fantastic benefits and doing work for amazing clients? Write some decent code (Ruby or Javascript), put it on Github, and comment with a link.
known 16y ago
You can get a job through contacts and connections when the economy is in recession. Farming, Trading & Manufacturing sectors are the alternatives.
loupgarou21 16y ago
Back when I was first trying to break into my field, the one thing that always struck me as completely ridiculous was the fact that almost all job postings for entry level positions required quite a bit of experience. I ended up getting my first computer related job by helping a school get some stuff setup while I was out of work. They ended up offering me a job because they needed some part time help and I had done a good job with the volunteer work I had already done for them. I worked at the school for a little while which gave me some experience to put on my resume. After getting that initial job, it's been pretty easy to find additional jobs.
Dilpil 16y ago
One mistake many recent college graduates make is looking for openings in the wrong places. Its understandable- no one ever tells you how to get an entry level job. To clarify, craigslist and monster.com are absolutely the wrong places for entry level job seeking. From what I hear, they kind of suck for any job seeking. The best place is a company's website. Quite a few company's have a "students" or "new graduates" sub-section in their careers section. This is how I ended up at my job. Networking and on campus recruiting are nice too, but they aren't always an option.
- yxhuvud 16y ago
  Or, if it is a smaller company, a mail to jobs@company.com with a short introduction and resume attached.
Tycho 16y ago
It's pretty funny. I took it as just an ironic take/satire on the demeaning tone of job adverts. I hope it doesn't backfire on him (judging by some peoples reactions in here, it might. Reading it I had thought 'I wish I'd thought of this.' now I'm kinda glad that I didn't)

518 points by middlegeek 16y ago

Clarification: This is not me, I stumbled upon this site.

eru 16y ago

A relevant title might have been better than an apology.

wazoox 16y ago

Not bad, and very funny. In case he plans to work in web dev, publishing valid HTML would be a plus :)

Kliment 16y ago

And why not? Sounds like he'd love to work at a startup, and can program.

AlexC04 16y ago

I liked it. Hope you hear you've found something. I do think that you will need links to some technologies you've built. If you don't have anything built yet, why not get started? Since you're out of work why not start with something simple (a "facemash" clone for pokemon?? wait, don't do that, I want that one now. oh who am I kidding? the market can bear a dozen facemash for pokemon clones) I went to see the social network the other day and there was one line that knocked my socks off (wish I'd known it when I was fresh out of uni) "We encourage students to create their jobs rather than find them" Instead of looking for work, why not get started on making your own work? Will code for food. :) Good luck! Let us know when you've found something!

thewordpainter 16y ago
"We encourage students to create their jobs rather than find them" - i agree it was one of the better lines in the movie, but i am not sure i believe harvard actually possesses that mentality. stanford? probably. hardvard? probably not. i've heard a number of times (and believe) that the most successful entrepreneurs are often the B-student rebels that manage to hire the A+ students for their startups.
- AlexC04 16y ago
  yeah - I wanted to get the quote right so I googled first. "we will offer our students the ability to land the job of their dreams or create it." http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2010/02/09_hls.venture.fund.html http://www.law.harvard.edu/news/2010/02/09_hls.venture.fund.... At the end of the day, I think it's mostly irrelevant where they say it (Havard, Stanford, Berkley, Carleton, all, none, who cares?) - it's the sentiment that really matters.
middlegeek 16y ago
Thanks but I should have been more clear--this is not me. I submitted this because it seemed like an idea HM would like and be inspired by.
MartinCron 16y ago
the market can bear a dozen facemash for pokemon clones Clearly what's needed is a comprehensive registry of facemash-for-pokemon clones. I would suggest that he get on that project.

vital101 16y ago

This is how most talented people get jobs. I have a resume on a two job portals, and (not to toot my own horn) I get job offers several times a week. I'm already happily employed, but the point is that I never look for work yet it still comes to me. Best of luck on your ventures!

brockf 16y ago

I don't get it. What does he do?

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
jlgosse 16y ago
Marketing and Video Games & Animation I assume!

krmmalik 16y ago

I love it. Sincerely, i can say this, that if i was in a position to, i'd definitely hire you. But i have something of interest to impart to you. Im from a background of arranged marriages (yes, im ok with it) and my parents are currently looking for a suitor for me. I've been rejected by ALOT of girls, and have been through almost the exact same thought process as you. I'd gotten to the point of grovelling, being content with anything that comes my way, but now i'm realising and very quickly that i actually have a lot to offer, and the girls should be begging to come to me. So henceforth begins my reverse marriage proposal! ;-) Maybe i should do a blog post!

mayank 16y ago
> So henceforth begins my reverse marriage proposal! Careful, that might be confused with "arrogant douchebag". What you look for in a for-profit company aimed at maximizing profits is not necessarily what you'd want in a husband. For example, you probably wouldn't want to "work with a team" to solve intimate marital issues. Which raises the larger point about this article, and hundreds of other charmingly idiosyncratic applications -- they certainly are refreshing, but may not always be received in the best way. Sometimes professionalism goes a long way. This isn't your college application essay.
- StavrosK 16y ago
  You'd be better off posting your github URL, I guess.
- thirdstation 16y ago
  "Sometimes professionalism goes a long way. " I didn't see anything I'd call unprofessional in his application. People with jobs often feel overly entitled to define what constitutes professionalism. (NB, I'm not addressing you personally, just the amorphous "they".) To me, the larger point of the article is how difficult in can be to break through the arbitrary and diverse standards each HR department and hiring manager has. Sometimes it just feels better to state what you want and hope they find you.
- mfukar 16y ago

Robin_Message 16y ago

This is a nice idea, with one big BUT. Not to rain on the parade here, but you've been unemployed for two years and all you have to show for it is a funny reverse job application. Sadly, it doesn't show what your actual skills are, nor whether you have ever produced something of value for anyone. These are more or less prerequisites to getting a good job. Go look at http://jacquesmattheij.com/My+list+of+ideas+for+when+you+are+looking+for+inspiration http://jacquesmattheij.com/My+list+of+ideas+for+when+you+are... and pick one. Or come up with another idea. Then build a website that does it. Find some freelance work on the back of that. Something small that can show off your talents. Rinse, repeat. Either you'll start applying to jobs again and get accepted on the basis of your demonstratable skill, someone will give you a job (which you'll have earned,) or you'll be one of the cool consultant-entrpreneur-successes. As you know, rejection sucks, but the worst thing is the social proof it is against you. I'm thinking to myself "there must be something wrong with this guy, so many people didn't hire him, there must be a reason." Do some things that prove you are a success and people will hire you. You've been unlucky, but sometimes you gotta make your own luck. This is an admirable attempt, but if you want me to believe you are the kind of creative achiever you say you are, you need to do more than say it. You can do it! EDIT: Damm. As halaric points out, his personal web page does list these things. It still needs at least a direct link and preferably a mention on the application page though.

halaric 16y ago
There's a link to his personal site which includes resumes at the bottom. I guess he's hoping that the uninterested employers will self-select.
- brosephius 16y ago
  wait, it's the employer's job to dig for your resume? this "reverse job app" gives me no substantive data on what this guy's skills are, so why would I even bother? if you want a job, it's your responsibility to make the case for why you're worth hiring.
  - v21 16y ago

Ripst 16y ago

If you do not get an awesome job within the next 24 hours, the world is in a sad sad state. Fingers crossed here.

yeahisaidit 16y ago
:) I think it was awesome. Hope someone hires him. Then the rest of us will have some hope

shrikant 16y ago

The form validation error messages are interesting, too :-) In case Andrew Horner reads this: yes, I'm one of the people (assuming there are more such curious folks) that filled in junk info to take a peek at those error messages. Sorry!

blaines 16y ago
* Nice try at anonymity, but I'm going to need a name. * Oh, you're unemployed too? * Not sure how you expect me to respond without this. * Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but that doesn't seem like an actual e-mail address. * Let's not take any chances here. * You're either a terrible typist or a poor listener. Make sure your email address matches in both fields. * Hey, if you don't know what to call the job, I'm not sure I want to be doing it. * SOUNDS INTERESTING. Wait, you didn't write anything here.
- gvb 16y ago
  > You're either a terrible typist or a poor listener. Make sure your email address matches in both fields. I would humbly suggest "Oh, I see you haven't mastered cut'n'paste yet."
loup-vaillant 16y ago
Turning off JavaScript (I run noscript) works just as well (though it took me time to realize they actually were error messages).

thewordpainter 16y ago

article is definitely entertaining. i would personally recommend a hybrid approach to the traditional job board postings and the 'reverse job application.' i believe the best opportunities come from the ones you seek out. don't wait for job postings. many of the best communities recruit from within. get in their network! tell them you want to work for them! they may not have a spot open at that precise moment, but when you leave an impression like that (how often are they approached on a whim?), they'll be pretty inclined to think of you when a position opens up...or they might just open one up specifically for you :) -adam

albertcardona 16y ago

I did a reverse job application once. I put a "hire me" link in my webpage, leading to 3 sentences about what I wanted. It worked--the webpage presented a small piece of software, and I was hired to write a bigger version of it. It led to my current job today.

sachitgupta 16y ago

Susan (from Seth Godins six month MBA program) did something similar: http://main.susanhiresaboss.com/ http://main.susanhiresaboss.com/

sethg 16y ago
I like this one better than the OP, because the front page gets straight to the point: “Hi. I'm Susan. My superpower is getting things done. It's an exceedingly rare and critical superpower. I battle the agent of chaos. I overdeliver. I delight. I amaze. And I'm looking for a place in need of a superhero like me.” That’s a 30-second elevator speech in 10 seconds. By comparison, I have to scroll halfway through the original posting to get to an “About Me” section to find out what the author thinks his qualifications are, and they include stuff like “perfectly capable of obtaining my own snacks and beverages” and “usually wearing clothes”. Har har har. Now tell me, as a potential employer, why I should pay you money.
- sachitgupta 16y ago
  I agree. And at what point is this ingenious, rather than copying something that's already been done?

citricsquid 16y ago

This is one of those things that will work once because of the novelty, but not again. Who really is willing to hire someone based off of nothing but speak? Maybe if he attached this to his work (cool things he has built?) maybe it would work, but all I know about this guy after reading his site is: - He went to college - He can't find a job - He is a programmer beyond that I know nothing, why would I hire him? Sure this might work this once because it's a ballsy "viral" idea (it's here, if that's proof enough) but it isn't sustainable which is what some people seem to see it as.

andrew1 16y ago
Well, presumably if someone was considering hiring him based on this there would be some kind of interview process before he's hired.

chegra 16y ago

His resume: http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pdf http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pd... * For your level of experience, Everything should fit on a page. * Take out the operating system part. They can infer them by the languages you use. * Take out high school * Create a section for awards and list them there * Take out familiar with MatLab and Latex * For each project give a link to a screen-shot or working project and ensure those links work * Take out techniques, they should be able to infer them from the projects you did. *The main point is show what you have done

jonpaul 16y ago
While I appreciate the ingenuity of reverse job application, by looking at his resume I'm not surprised that he hasn't been hired. You're right, he needs to make it one page. I would put an objective, and I don't mean some BS objective, but a real heartfelt objective. Also, experience needs to go first. Each piece of 'experience' should detail what he did and MOST IMPORTANTLY its impact.
cemregr 16y ago
I agree about changing the layout to make it fit on one page. But I wouldn't remove high school. He's done IB, which is way more challenging than regular high school. It's a straight admissions ticket to many top universities, some even let you skip the freshman year entirely based on what you took with IB. It's unfortunately not as widely recognized in the US than elsewhere in the world.
- achompas 16y ago
  But he's looking for jobs after college. High school, for this guy, was 5-6 years ago! Even if he took IB or AP courses...so what? Tons of people have taken IB/AP courses. A company won't decide to hire you based on your high school marks.
- bean__ 16y ago
  I did admission at a liberal arts college, and IB didn't even impress us. It certainly wouldn't impress me in trying to hire someone. I want someone with enough sense to know that high school doesn't belong on the C.V.

middlegeek 16y ago

Submitter here: This is not my site! I am not the person doing the reverse job application. I stumbled upon the site and thought the mindset was something HN would like and possibly get inspiration from.

tomedme 16y ago
How did you stumble across it?
- middlegeek 16y ago
  I can't remember if someone sent it to me or if I saw it on another aggregate suite. Probably the latter.
thirdstation 16y ago
Appreciated! And on-topic IMHO. An entrepreneurial effort on the site owner's behalf.

charlief 16y ago

Nice post, but openings for awesome jobs are the scarce resource, not people to fill them.

LargeWu 16y ago
In my experience hiring people, there are a lot more good job openings available than even competent developers to fill those roles.

scott_s 16y ago

It's one thing to not want to list buzzwords. It's something else entirely to make no mention at all of what kind of a job you're looking for, or even what kind of a job you'd be good at. I assumed he wasn't a developer of any kind until I got to his list of "I won't." (I followed his link at the bottom to his real page and confirmed there that he is a software developer.)

thirdstation 16y ago
To me, it seems like he's looking more for personal fit than a specific job. On his personal site he says he wants to be a jack-of-all-trades. As one myself, I know he'll have a tough time finding a job using the traditional approach. It's rare to see a job posting for a generalist but, everywhere I've worked had one.
- scott_s 16y ago
  But a generalist in what area. My first thought was he was looking for a job in the advertising industry, based on the page itself. He gives no indication what he wants to do. Even saying "I design things" eliminates, say, accounting.
  - thirdstation 16y ago
    Violent agreement. Focusing on one thing dramatically increases your chance of success, and makes it easier for folks looking for that specific thing to identify you. Mr. Horner's site seems even more reverse than a reverse application - does that make sense? He seems to be saying, "First, decide if you like ME. Then, decide if you have a job for me." EDIT: I should have said "industry" instead of "thing" in my second sentence. He's stated he wants to be a generalist, not a specialist. He would fare better by targeting a specific industry.
    - scott_s 16y ago
      That I certainly agree with - the industry point. He probably has an industry in mind, but he has not communicated that at all.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

danielnicollet 16y ago

This a great idea. While the resume isn't too precise as to what the specific skills Andrew has to offer, he demonstrates a great one creativity, good writing and high motivation. I predict he is going to get at least a few advertising and marketing job offers... Good luck Andrew!

jasonlotito 16y ago

> Possess strong written, verbal and interpersonal communication skills. If you can't tell the difference between "you're" and "your", your never going to be able to get you're points across to me. I can't tell if he's doing this intentionally to make a point, or it's just an honest error. Still, it's amusing.

sofal 16y ago
Looks like you missed his second intentional mistake in the same sentence.
nihilocrat 16y ago
It's definitely an intentional joke.
nocman 16y ago
If he had only screwed up the the "your" you pointed out (as in "you're never...") it might be a humorous mistake. But he intentionally screwed up both -- he also said "able to get you're points across". BTW, thank's for pointing this out. I read that point so fast that I completely missed the joke (which would have been unfortunate).

ramidarigaz 16y ago

I know a lot of people on here are saying that this would backfire horribly. I'm sure this would turn away quite a few potential employers. That said, I know several people who would be thrilled to find somebody like this.

pcampbell 16y ago

You should try offering a Reward for successful placement at www.CareerElement.com Also, we are having a startup career fair in Berkeley on November 2nd. You guys should all come! You can register at www.careerelement.com/jobfair

jaspalsawhney 16y ago

Any thing is worth a shot in my opinion - its not like you have not tried any other options so I think that this is a great way to make yourself known. Best of luck.

xpaulbettsx 16y ago

If he was really clever he'd have a Google Analytics link in there so he can track who's visiting :-/

bsk 16y ago
He can get that more reliably (ad blockers stop GA) from his web server logs.
- zackattack 16y ago
  give me a break. the vast majority of personal sites are on shared webhosts who don't give clean access to access_log files (etc.) moreover, it's a pain to parse files anyway.

RyanMcGreal 16y ago

I hate to be That Guy, but HTML Tidy tells me his page has 26 errors, mostly related to proper nesting of elements. It's just too easy to make sure your HTML is valid to let his "Attention to Detail" commitment slide.

3ds 16y ago
True, on the other hand, including a doctype still makes sense to avoid quirks mode. (There'd be less errors if he'd use html5 doctype though.) And as long as it renders properly in A-grade browsers you're good to go.
- RyanMcGreal 16y ago
  That's true right up until it isn't, i.e. when you're struggling to understand why your javascript is producing subtly buggy behaviour.
  - ryanc 16y ago
    I hate to be that guy but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases:_I#id_est http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases:_I#id_est
    - RyanMcGreal 16y ago
      I know what i.e. means. The benefit to valid markup is specifically for ensuring that the javascript you write to manipulate the DOM works properly.

TWAndrews 16y ago

I like the idea and creative approach, but I'd like to know a bit about what your skills are. It not in the theme of the site to put up a resume, but you need to give me an idea whether or not you're somebody I'd want to hire as a developer, or to work in marketing.

kingkawn 16y ago

Nice link, but the title used to post here is empty of any information.

MtL 16y ago

I wouldn't hire the guy. He does not communicate well what he does and what kind of position he is looking for, he spends a couple of paragraphs telling the world how useless he is, and he did not show any initiative to start something himself while he was unemployed. Nice try, but it's not sufficient to convince me.

eyeareque 16y ago

I like his attempt, and hope he succeeds. After looking at his resume I can see why he isn't getting any calls. That is a disgusting resume layout. He really needs to make something more professional, and to the point. As a lot of people said, his attempt hasn't impressed them. However, you have to remember that he only wants one job, so that means he only needs to impress one person in order to reach his goal.

andjones 16y ago

well done sir, well done

run4yourlives 16y ago

If you really care which programming languages I already know or which applications I have used before, I can only assume that you're overlooking my ability to quickly pick up new technologies and adjust to new ways of thinking. I would encourage you to correct this, as it is a mistake. I know it's tongue in cheek, but my god does the current generation not have any humility at all? This is going to ruin your world view, so brace yourself: You are not fucking special in any way shape or form. Even if you graduated with the best marks in MIT and have been programming since the womb, guess what? So have people every single graduating year for the past 20 fricken years. The only constant in your never ending job search is - wait for it - YOU. Get over yourself. You are not entitled to anything. You are the lowest of the low, and have proved nothing to anyone that matters. Start the journey at the beginning. And Yes, you are at the beginning. Your accomplishments so far are shared by every single person in the work force. Be humble and gracious until you actually distinguish yourself.

astrofinch 16y ago
Hm. 'Fraid I don't see what a sense of entitlement has to do with the difficulty of picking up new programming languages.
- chaostheory 16y ago
  (Assuming he wants a technical job) not bothering to show proof of being proactive and learning a language in the two years he was out of work: posting an example of his work ala open source project or failed startup This can also apply in other ways too (graphic design, web design, charitable organization activities, etc...) My point is that I don't see a portfolio other than a single short story example.
- ramchip 16y ago
  Programming languages can't all be picked up that quickly, since semantics may differ a lot. You can't say "Give me any programming task and I'll pick it up". What if you're a Web guy and the task is a C++ medical application? What if we're a finance company and the language is Haskell or ML? There's no way someone with no experience in a related language could become proficient without a fairly long training period in the company. What if I'm a hardware IP company and the language is Verilog? To pretend that what takes many years and domain knowledge to become proficient in, you could just "pick up" on the go, is what sounds a bit entitled to me.

hop 16y ago

Your resume could be part of the problem - http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pdf http://www.andrewhorner.com/documents/AndrewHorner.Resume.pd... Some constructive criticism: Thats a lot of ink to print that out, drop the black and grey banners. Try using a resume theme from Pages or Word for a start and just use black fonts on a white background. Use Myriad Pro or something more modern than Arial. Make it one page. Your first entry shouldn't be that you can use OSX and WinXP, my mom can do that. Drop "Proficient in...", it sounds like you just know enough to get by. I would also drop your high school info to be more concise. Your HS GPA says "4.58 (weighted out of 4.0)" Either its bad math or its not out of 4. And I would switch up your order of things - employment, education, skills & projects combined. Good luck!

middlegeek 16y ago
Thanks, I hope Andrew is reading this but I am not him. I submitted it because I appreciated the ingenuity and thought HN would as well.
gammarator 16y ago
Weighted GPAs can be higher than 4.0: A+ grades in advanced courses are often given 5.0 points, and so on.
- treeface 16y ago
  I had a system like this in my high school too, but technically it's not "out of 4.0". The maximum possible grade is usually dependent on what courses the student takes. For example, if you took an "honors" course, an A would get you 4.5, B would be 3.5, etc. If you took a "high honors" or "AP" course, A would be 5, B would be 4, etc. If you know what classes you took, you can calculate your maximum score possible. If he had said he got a 4.4 (or whatever) out of 4.6, it would convey more information than what he said on his resume for two reasons: 1) It would tell the employer at roughly what rate he took harder courses than he had to (this would be especially true if he somehow found the school's average maximum GPA). 2) It would tell the employer the actual ratio of his grades to the maximum possible score.

FreeRadical 16y ago

I wonder if 37signals have replied yet

bretthellman 16y ago

That's a rough beat. Way to keep at it... I found it interesting to hear how you're frustrated with recruiters not calling you back but then you're not going to respond to every job offer you receive. I'd rethink that. Don't close doors. Also, I didn't notice a mention of networking to find opportunities. Did you talk to your friends that landed jobs for introductions? Best of luck.

EGreg 16y ago

The fact is, it's often not the skills that get you noticed, but a unique stunt, like Atomic Tom on the train the other day, or what you did. Congrats. However, there is a way to get a lot of job offers. Just post your resume to the job boards and the employers WILL find you. Ether market yourself, or find someone who will. And definitely don't grovel! Til then, start your own business :)

rfugger 16y ago

Nowhere does it say what industry you're looking for work in or what your major was. The only hint of it is your mention of "programming languages".

canterburry 16y ago

If you have been unemployed for 2 years, I would expect you to have an acronym list on your resume longer than anyone with an actual job. Being unemployed can offer HUGE advantages in terms of being completely up to date on the latest and greatest, something most employed people simply don't have the time for. You don't need a job to tech you the tools of the trade so make sure you walk in with those already in your back pocket. There have been plenty of crafty people on HN who have built up a resume with experience by simply offering free services in order to prove they can do something. I would suggest you do the same at this point.

jph98 16y ago

I sympathize. It's horrible being in this position when you first graduate, rest assured - somebody will give you a break, I assure you that. Some advice 1. Clean up your CV, make it look more for professional and less arty. 2. Stress the open source project and dev blog in interviews along with any books/resources and interesting language features/features you're currently using at the moment. 3. Don't wait for somebody to come to you. A good approach is to approach employers directly rather than using recruitment agents or middlemen. You will find somebody who will give a break. Recruitment agents are the scum of the earth, but sometimes very useful - I didn't find them so useful when starting out. 4. You weren't unemployed for two years - I can't stress this enough. You worked on open source projects during that time and learned a whole bunch. Right? Good luck with the job search : )

bfung 16y ago

How about taking this one step further and help other people do a reverse job application, almost head hunter-ish style. You've stated that you're unemployed, so why not employ yourself? The Y Combinator application deadline is today =)

catshirt 16y ago

i'd like to find out who hires andrew.

ciupicri 16y ago
I'd like to find out what companies have contacted him. The text from the site might look appealing, but as others have noticed, he doesn't mention his field[1] (is it programming, graphic design, etc.?), his resume is a bit hard to find[2] and it's also full of HR speak[3] (although this might turn out to be an advantage). [1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1807937 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1807937 [2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1807094 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1807094 [3] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1808661 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1808661

davidw 16y ago

How did this get twice as many upvotes as patio11's extensive, detailed notes from the Business of Software conference? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1795896 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1795896

83457 16y ago
Brainstorm a few logical reasons this could happen and I'm sure the answer will come to you
middlegeek 16y ago
No kidding. I submitted this post on a whim and my karma went from 30 this morning to 473 and is still rising.

ekanes 16y ago

While I agree that stating he's been rejected for 2 years isn't the best opener, many commenters are missing the point. He may not have impressed you specifically, but the fact that this is polarizing is an indicator that it'll probably succeed. Having people love and hate you is a big plus whether or not you're marketing yourself, your product or your company. Much worse if people shrug and move on. Other polarizing examples: Harleys, cruise vacations, the iPad, Crocs sandals and of course avocados. Quite literally, he only needs to impress one person with this.

cloudhead 16y ago

So.. you can doodle? What else? How do I know you even know how to code?

yeahisaidit 16y ago

All of you saying "this is a waste of time", "you wouldn't take a second glance", etc. are contradicting yourselves. If you "wouldn't waste your time reading it" why did you? And why are you taking the time to comment? You're giving this site the exact thing it was meant to get...ATTENTION. It obviously was written with humor and meant to attract attention. I am sure he would give a potential employer his qualifications (and experience) once he got their attention and they asked. If you're taking this THAT seriously (cough, cough, run4yourlives) you're obviously the exact kind of person no one would want to work for! I understand that you're upset you don't quite meet the qualifications. ;)

micheljansen 16y ago

With the risk of sounding redundant: I would never wish to reverse the job seeking process for myself. I prefer to keep my destiny in my own hands and seek out the job I feel best fits my skills and interests. I don't trust potential employers to just magically find me, a single person, and appreciate me for what I am worth. Too many times already I have been approached by recruiters that get triggered by a line in my CV stating that I can do X or have experience using Y and want to hire me to do that for the rest of my life. To all the good recruiters and intermediaries out there, I apologize. I have lost all faith in your profession and feel you treat the companies you represent as the customer and me as the product. Quite frankly, I'd rather pass and take my chances on my own.

dripton 16y ago
Of course the company is the customer and you are the product. They pay; you don't. Follow the money.
- micheljansen 16y ago
  Exactly, the only winning move is not to play.

fara 16y ago

I know a page that already does reverse job applications, it's called LinkedIn.

togasystems 16y ago

What has the writer been doing for two years? He should focus on making something worthwhile. He will gain experience and maybe a little bit of real world knowledge that employers look for.

sequoia 16y ago

I'm interested in finding out whether this guy gets a job. It's all well and good to say he's "entitled" and whatnot but IF he couldn't get a job and now he does, everyone talking shit will have simply been wrong. He states that he has tried the well-worn route and it didn't work so he's trying something else, I see no reason to fault him that. If the pitch seems over the top to you, you've missed the point. He's taking all the hoops and whatnot he's had to jump thru, and turning them on the employer. Besides humor, it serves the purpose of him reasserting his self-worth, after having it torn down by the poor job market. He feels that he's good at what he does and is tired of feeling worthless because jobs are scarce. Where's the harm in that? That said, I think the site is very cute but quite absurd. I know almost nothing about this person. I only figured out that he was a programmer about 3/4 of the way down the page. And I'm just inferring that he's a programmer, he never states what it is that he supposedly does well. If a manager actually saw this and wanted to hire him ("oh hey, that's funny XD"), that would be a VERY bad sign about the company. Places that make decisions in that way are not places you want to work. To paraphrase Groucho Marx: I don't he should work for any company that would grant HIM an interview.

sequoia 16y ago
"I MASTERED the use of documentation..." "I MASTERED the ability to combine several strategies..." (my emphasis) Ok, perhaps he could stand to be taken down a peg or two.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

moron4hire 16y ago

All this talk in this thread about "your generation is this, our generation had that" is depressing. When did we, as a society, start characterizing generations of people, beyond the typical old-person-calls-young-person-a-whippersnapper? I'm 28 years old so suddenly I'm a texting, Second-Lifing, flash-mobbing, Will-Ferrel-movie-quoting Democrat? Please, I'll stick to defining my own identity, thanks.

petenixey 16y ago

By making this page potentially applicable to any job the guy has unfortunately made himself inapplicable to every job. Paul Buchheit once said that it's better to make something a few people love than a lot of people like. He said that about apps but it's just as true in a job application. A job application is a sales process. Being clear and resolute about a few of one's killer features is far more persuasive than being non-committal about lots of them.

motters 16y ago

I like his style. The first thing to remember if you're in this kind of situation is that it's not your fault. It's the fault of corrupt bankers and financiers, and maybe a few politicians too, so if you're apportioning blame make sure you place it squarely where it belongs and not on yourself. It may be hard, but try not to let endless rejections knock your confidence. Keep applying and don't give up. If you're persistent and you have some good skills then sooner or later pure chance alone will mean that some kind of lucky(ish) break comes your way, and when it does make sure you seize it.

elai 16y ago

I'd suggest that you generate your own experience if a lack of experience is a problem. Create iPhone apps that find movie listings, create websites that do something, put it on github, create a LinkedIn profiles, (it's a tech recruiter's best friend) and get connections with everyone you know, employed or not. Gain a reputation on IRC channels, stack overflow, forums and other programmer communities. Be willing to take one off contractor jobs that pay relatively low (but higher than some retail cashier job) and see them through to completion. Put all of that in your portfolio website advertising yourself with pictures, resumes, links and other things. Make them without any sort of revenue goal in mind so you don't limit yourself in your creations. You'll be creating experience and if you hit it off on something, might of created your revenue stream. Also non technical people use resume buzzwords as easy way to filter through a undefined mass of people. If you want to make an iphone app, your going to look for someone with iOS, iPhone, Objective-C and mobile in their resumes or portfolios. Even though you might pick it up and get up to speed to an experienced developer in a month or two, it's a month or two in money that they can avoid.

j1o1h1n 16y ago
> get up to speed to an experienced developer in a month or two Ho! You are not a fan of the "become an expert in ten years" theory?

lukevdp 16y ago

How about start freelancing? Or start a business? Nobody is "entitled" to a job. Yes, the job market is tough right now, but the reality is, if you're totally awesome at creating value, you're going to get a job. If you think you're totally awesome at creating value and you can't get a job, you're not really totally awesome at creating value (it means other people are more awesome than you) Freelancing is entering the marketplace where you ONLY get paid on your value. If you can't freelance (in the web industry), what makes you think you can make your employer money? Having said that, I think this is a great way for Andrew to stand out and get a job, he obviously knows how to draw attention and be different, he's proven that with the reverse job posting, and best of luck to him.

dools 16y ago

I love it. Let the haters hate. Resumes are totally boring and anyone who can program and draw witty cartoons is going to be an asset. Look how many people know the name Andrew Horner now? This is not the end of a job application process, it's the beginning, and it's a sure fire way to by-pass the HR gatekeepers and go straight to the decision makers. Obviously, as an employer, you would go through the same sorts of evaluation process to try and figure out if he can actually do anything - just the same as you would with any other employee (as if you can trust what someone has on their resume anyway!) I only wish I made enough money to hire this guy and enough work to keep him busy. And enough money to afford office space in which I could install a whiteboard on which he could draw a different cartoon every day. Maybe I should do a REVERSE REVERSE job application so that he begs ME to come and work for my company!!! Check MATE Horner!

risotto 16y ago

Getting a job is about networking. My little brother graduated this past summer from University with an gasp Anthropology degree and he has 3 job offers to decide from. The big difference is that he schmoozed the shit out of his TAs and professors for the past couple years. His advisors were basically falling over recommending him to their peers. I doubt this reverse job application will work. Networking with friends and peers will.

jiganti 16y ago

Why doesn't he just implement ideas? Man, what I would've done to have the technical expertise just a few years ago that I now have to outsource.

FiddlerClamp 16y ago

My experience with an unusual resume: Fed up with the way that Monster forced candidates to break down their resumes into tiny text boxes (this was back in 2000), I wrote a narrative that could fit into those boxes. Eventually I strung it together properly and created a resume-sized PDF (see http://www.scribd.com/doc/39705569?secret_password=1jlyubhcypk6kp9p0spf http://www.scribd.com/doc/39705569?secret_password=1jlyubhcy...). Results? One guy hired me on the spot -- a marketing consultant who was working on his own. Since that one job, I've sent it out many, many times, and have received maybe 1 or 2 responses out of hundreds. I think it's well-written, but I can see it rubbing people the wrong way because of its attitude and because it's not easily scannable like a regular resume. That said, since I was looking for work in marketing and tech, I'm surprised more people weren't interested in following up. * I am employed now, so this isn't a resume-spamming post. :)

noarchy 16y ago

The lack of completed projects in the last two years is a blinking red light. This just makes it look like an unexplained job gap. Two years is plenty of time to have done something, even if it was not paid work.

wittgenstein 16y ago

I think the fact that this made it to the top of HN is unfortunate. This was precisely what the author of the reverse job application intended. Yet, creating a reverse job application web site clearly does not take any significant skill. It is not a ground-breaking idea, or an idea that a common job applicant cannot conceive. Yet, he is now claiming on his resume that his idea went to top of HN, which, ironically, will be viewed by some as a worthy achievement...

scotty79 16y ago

Don't look for a job. Look for task that someone wants to pay to be done. Do it. Get cash. Repeat with increased cash per unit of work until you will be able to pay other people to do some tasks.

heimidal 16y ago

I'm 25 and didn't go to school, but I spend most of my time around those who did. I have many, many friends who are unemployed artists or are business types working less than full-time who would kill for a decent full-time position. That said, I cannot understand how a young, motivated programmer has trouble finding a job. The company I work for in Denver has been looking for Ruby and front-end web developers of all levels, and from all over the country, for months. First priority: make writing code a lifestyle choice. Need a better resume? Write some code -- anything -- and put it on Github. Bored? Write some code and put it on Github. Sick of sending out resumes? Write some code and... you get the idea. Strong candidates love the craft, not just the paycheck. Show pride in your code and prove you'll want to write code at work and at home. Programmers who work at companies that you should actually want to work for are not hired because they have great resumes or went to great colleges. They are hired because they are capable of solving real problems while writing maintainable code. If you can do that, you're an easy hire. This goes for anyone. Want a serious, no-bullshit interview for a job in beautiful Denver (we can help relocate) with fantastic benefits and doing work for amazing clients? Write some decent code (Ruby or Javascript), put it on Github, and comment with a link.

known 16y ago

You can get a job through contacts and connections when the economy is in recession. Farming, Trading & Manufacturing sectors are the alternatives.

loupgarou21 16y ago

Back when I was first trying to break into my field, the one thing that always struck me as completely ridiculous was the fact that almost all job postings for entry level positions required quite a bit of experience. I ended up getting my first computer related job by helping a school get some stuff setup while I was out of work. They ended up offering me a job because they needed some part time help and I had done a good job with the volunteer work I had already done for them. I worked at the school for a little while which gave me some experience to put on my resume. After getting that initial job, it's been pretty easy to find additional jobs.

Dilpil 16y ago

One mistake many recent college graduates make is looking for openings in the wrong places. Its understandable- no one ever tells you how to get an entry level job. To clarify, craigslist and monster.com are absolutely the wrong places for entry level job seeking. From what I hear, they kind of suck for any job seeking. The best place is a company's website. Quite a few company's have a "students" or "new graduates" sub-section in their careers section. This is how I ended up at my job. Networking and on campus recruiting are nice too, but they aren't always an option.

yxhuvud 16y ago
Or, if it is a smaller company, a mail to jobs@company.com with a short introduction and resume attached.

Tycho 16y ago

It's pretty funny. I took it as just an ironic take/satire on the demeaning tone of job adverts. I hope it doesn't backfire on him (judging by some peoples reactions in here, it might. Reading it I had thought 'I wish I'd thought of this.' now I'm kinda glad that I didn't)