10 ms·

Amazon pulled an Apple on the smart home

98 points by imartin2k 8y ago

octosphere 8y ago
It would be so cool if Amazon had their own OS instead of relying on Android. They could use this on their Fire tablets and even have their own unique phone with a unique OS to sell. It's sad that the we have to choose between Android and iOS at every instance. I know of very few competitors (Like Purism).
- user812 8y ago
  Ironically if Google will indeed switch to Fuchsia or another in-house OS, Android may survive in some form as their biggest competitor.
  - mattnewton 8y ago
    I can’t see them doing that without some form of binary compatibility. Disclaimer: I work at google, but in an unrelated department, and have no inside knowledge / reads about what is going on with fuscia, and so my opinions aren’t more insightful than any other random engineer on the internet.
  - binomialxenon 8y ago
    A fork of Android would probably be most successful in China where they don't rely on Google apps and services. I don't think there's much of a market for Android without Google outside of China. I'm curious how long Google!Android will be supported once Fuschia launches. Maybe 2-3 years, and it depends on how many existing Android devices can move to Fuschia.
    - foepys 8y ago
      I don't think they will release Fuchsia and then immediately abandon Android. They will most likely release it for some low-end phones first and then work their way up. Maybe even release a Fuchsia Chromebook before any Fuchsia smartphone. Android's strength over Windows Phone was the app ecosystem and I don't think an emulator will instantly be good enough to emulate all kinds of apps with sufficient performance, especially games.
      - binomialxenon 8y ago
        It doesn't need to be an emulator. It would more likely be a compatibility layer, like Alien Dalvik or Wine.
- sorokod 8y ago
  Like turkeys wishing for another thanksgiving.
- tortasaur 8y ago
  If Amazon had a mobile OS, it would probably be proprietary. Android has its faults, but at least an open Android stack is possible. I can't say I'd like to see Android lose ground to whatever Amazon would cook up.
  - binomialxenon 8y ago
    I'd be happy for Android to lose some ground to competitors such as Windows, Sailfish, Tizen, a hypothetical Amazon OS, or almost anything else. While I appreciate the usable non-Google Android stack, the duopoly has gone too far, and there needs to be more competition in order to drive innovation and differentiating features. Plus, it's not like Android will suddenly become less viable if it were to drop from ~85% to 65% market share.
- theyusedto 8y ago
  They do. Or at least, they did. Well, sort-of, in the sense that it was still Linux. The e-ink kindles - at least the first several generations, I have no idea about the recent ones - were a pretty vanilla Linux with a java userspace managing the UI - but NOT android. The original Echo seems to use a version of the e-ink Kindle's OS, while newer Echos use FireOS aka Amazon's android fork. Amazon really tried to make FireOS work as a google-free mobile OS, but just never got the volume. Ok, I guess they still sell those $50 tablets or whatever, but millions of Firedroid devices is still a rounding error compared to billions of Google Playdroid devices, or even hundreds of millions of Baidroid devices. Network effects dominate - even Apple has a hard time with maps for exactly this reason.
Tepix 8y ago
Amazon is a company that wants to know everything about me, just like Google. They want to sell me all kinds of stuff. Not a company I'd trust with private data about my home.
- lykr0n 8y ago
  That's my concern as well. I love the idea of home automation, but I don't want someone else to have that data. It sucks, but we're the minority here.
  - acidburnNSA 8y ago
    We're all in luck because the Home Assistant community [1] is on it. It's still a bit of a tinkerer's domain but things are rapidly evolving and becoming more user friendly. [1] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-big/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-big/
    - kazen44 8y ago
      Also, IKEA has simple, but very effective home automation (lighting and plugs for now though more will come) that is dead simple to use and can work without an internet connection[1] Also, home assistant integration is dead easy and it's very cheap compared to comparable products. (Especially because amazon's offerings are vastly overpriced in countries where they have no locations). https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/04/ikea-tradfri-a-smart-light-in-the-darkness-of-iot-security/ https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/04/ikea-tradfri-a-smart-light...
      - tfha 8y ago
        "Works without an Internet connection" That's all I want. Why did the first two generations of smart home equipment require a cloud? That's harder to develop. blegh
        CamperBob2 8y ago
draw_down 8y ago
But they never deliver an experience that’s on par with Apple. Everything they do always feels so utilitarian and driven by data rather than a more holistic (for lack of a better term) approach to design
patryn20 8y ago
While I'm aware anecdote is not the same as data, I really feel that the smart home experience vis-a-vis Alexa is getting worse. It no longer recognizes simple voice commands. Third party integrations constantly need to be reset ("I'm sorry, I can't find that." or "If you want to use SiriusXM, please open Alexa on your phone."). Randomly swaps responses between devices across the house whereas it would always respond with the nearest device in the past. Etc. Etc. Etc. It's the same sort of things that keeps happening with maps programs, smartphones, and basically any modern tech with software updates. No one can leave well enough alone. They have to put their fingerprints on it in order to advance their careers, so everyone mucks around and breaks things and calls it an improvement. Frankly I'm just tired of expensive devices getting worse with every single software update.
- Terretta 8y ago
  More anecdata — my wife and Alexa got along only about half the time at launch, and a few years later it’s down to 1/4 or less. Meanwhile, HomePod Siri understands her 9/10. Every room has both, both are able to manage all devices, and Alexa was here first. Because of comprehension challenge, Alexa has been abandoned, now the only time Alexa wakes up is for TV mentions. Note, not talking about syntax, talking about whether the words she said are what the device says she said. Also agree about wrong devices in wrong rooms answering. Used to work, now doesn’t.
  - toyg 8y ago
    I've read the same about Google Home. I have one and use it very little, but the related forums are full of "X used work and now it doesn't, wtf?!?". "Upgraditis" has become a scourge.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    my wife and Alexa got along only about half the time at launch, and a few years later it’s down to 1/4 or less. My wife has the almost identical problem with Siri. She has a very slight northern plains accent, but it's enough to confound Siri about 25% of the time. It's worse with Microsoft's horrible "Blue & Me" system. That thing understands her only 5% of the time. She gave up on using it. Siri understands what I say almost all the time, but only rarely knows what to do with the questions or commands I speak. Except for one app: Reminders. For some reason, Siri has a hard time when I add things to Reminders lists. I have a Groceries list with about 30 items on it that are bad Siri misinterpretations of things that I want to buy, and I have no idea what they're supposed to be. Things currently on my Groceries list that, thanks to Siri, that I have no idea what they are but keep them anyway just in case I figure them out later: Canned pills, Maybe to la, Bicycle, Not what I said, North, Raisin berry, Frog nodes, Special, Compound dirt.
shimon 8y ago
There's a really interesting strategic move here that I hadn't previously realized. Amazon is bundling some perpetual cloud service cost into their new connectivity module. They're solving a cost problem for device makers in a way that can address a critical risk for consumers. With perpetual cloud support, the long term maintenance costs of a novel connected device are much lower, and there's less of a chance that your smart devices suddenly die after a year or two when the manufacturer kills that product line. If done right, this could mean the ability to buy any off-brand or startup device product and not worry about losing ongoing support. This could significantly increase choices and lower costs for consumers, and gives Amazon an even more powerful voice in the ongoing direction of alexa-integrates products. It's also a brilliantly unique move, in that no other company can offer the same blend of services around a smart home device. Conceivably, Amazon could enrich this with purchase and provisioning, i.e. every device sold through Amazon.com gets a certain lifetime support guarantee and arrives at your house provisioned for your wifi. This could make experimenting with new gadgets a lot lower risk.
alkonaut 8y ago
I have high hopes for smart home and IoT appliances which is still mostly terrible. But Amazon seems to still believe that voice interactions are not just a feature of future smart homes, but essential. I have never seen the need to voice control anything in my home, and I likely never will. I don’t want AI I want simple, cheap reliable and interconnectable automation hardware. The first home automation tech I want is normal lightswitches everywhere and a hotel style master switch at the front door. The home automation/smart home tech I can easily get is a speaker that can order things? I think IKEA seem to be a lot closer to revolutionizing smart homes than Amazon.
- Swenrekcah 8y ago
  voice commands are essential for them to spy on everything you say
- blhack 8y ago
  Just an anecdote: my wife and I absolutly use Alexa as a controller for our house, even though "easier" solutions exist. Just shouting "Alexa, Time!" has completely replaced looking at a clock. The only thing I don't like is using it to turn on the bathroom light, but only because the noise might wake up others in the house.
- tajen 8y ago
  The simple fact that no-one ever used the fancy buttons on a microwave, and everyone presses the « +30s » nine times, is a glaring demonstration that we don’t even have a use of the middleman that tries to control the control for us, even if we’ve already been forced to pay the higher price-point of it. It’s a bit like the barman that’s between the coffee machine and me: I’d be glad to pay a but more and do the coffee properly myself than having this wonderfully complex talking machine known as bartender between the machine and me.
- slantyyz 8y ago
  > I have never seen the need... Nobody "needs" any of this stuff. But once you factor in laziness and convenience, "normal" people are willing to make tradeoffs. I know I don't need Alexa, but when you've got grocery bags in both hands and it's dark, being able to turn on the lights by voice is handy even though it's far from "needed". And when it works well enough most of the time, it's easy to become dependent on it. For some things, voice is way more convenient than pulling out your phone and fumbling with an app (like changing a setting on a Nest). A slightly related but different example: I just tried installing a pihole in my network, and it ended up being a total headache. My wife likes using deal sites for shopping, and they like to redirect to a half dozen tracking sites before landing you on the e-store you want. And of course, the pihole got in the way of her shopping. The pihole ended up being way more trouble than it was worth and got decommissioned after only a couple of days, as white listing is a time consuming cat and mouse game I didn't want to play. My wife cares more about her $5 shopping rebate than she does her information being passed around to marketing companies, because the tradeoff is worth it. I don't think my wife is much different from most normal consumers in that regard.
Tloewald 8y ago
If there’s one thing Apple did, with Steve Jobs, other than build fantastic user experience out of mature but unapproachable technologies, it was communicating the fact that it had done so. Not only has Amazon failed to do this, the writer has as well. I think it’s pretty cool that, in theory, I could say “Alexa, turn on the oven to 450” and it would (a) turn the correct device to the correct setting and (b) remind me when it was ready (or if it’s being super duper smart, tell me that it was 2 mins or so away from being ready) so that I could stagger over to the kitchen, pull a pizza out of the fridge or freezer, unwrap it, and stick it in the oven. All I need to do is have a bunch of speakers bugging my home, a new oven, ideally probably not two new ovens or not a new oven and a new toaster oven because god knows what will happen, and all this stuff networked. Or I can walk over to the oven, turn it to 450, and say “Hey Siri, set timer for ten minutes” and wander off. When my wrist buzzes, I go stick a pizza in the oven and I say, “Hey Siri, set timer for thirteen minutes” and go do stuff. I don’t need a new oven. I don’t need to worry that I’ll pick the wrong oven. I’m not inviting Amazon to parse all my conversations. I don’t need to learn a new magic phrase. Oh and imagine the hilarity when you try to sell or rent your house and the internet gets turned off. We had a smart sprinkler system which, when we sold the house, we essentially had to rip out because it was easier to install a conventional replacement than figure out how to talk to it without an active WiFi.
- kazen44 8y ago
  the internet connectivity requirement is silly, especially if you want to build a long term system. This guy has a great youtube channel[1] which documents how he builds his home automation system (in house). Would highly recommend watching his videos. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUEKr_48EfQ&list=PL8mjSseObLTkPkkcLofUzh3VciEvboYtK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUEKr_48EfQ&list=PL8mjSseObL...
  - BatFastard 8y ago
    His solution is interesting if you want to rewire your whole house.
- WalterBright 8y ago
blfr 8y ago
I don't like the idea of home automation and these complex, all-in-one systems in general. They are just bound to fail. And not even in some spectacular fashion, they will just be a grind to use with this or that piece not working correctly, requiring fiddling, etc. Like my rather pricey, fully automatic Nivona coffee machine which has a really hard time beating a manual coffee grinder and a French press since they don't require descaling, special cleaning tablets, or adjusting the tray sensor to notice that the tray is back in. Or like these home audio solutions where the sound is following you around the house in whatever configuration you want but have a hard time beating a simple bluetooth adapter connected to an old hifi. Both at 1/50th of the price. What works and what I would like however are some simple technological improvements to existing solutions. For example, being able to check if I closed and locked the door behind me. More like that bluetooth adapter than a complex integrated solution. Also, it really doesn't need to relay my conversations to the cloud. What a terrible trade-off for a silly gimmick.
- tomp 8y ago
  Exactly. I think humanity hasn’t mastered building complex software systems yet. In addition, I’m not sure I want proprietary, closed source software in something that is supposed to last 10 (car) to 50 (house) years... what if the company goes under, bugs are discovered but not fixed, or simply it’s no longer profitable to support your version..
- uxcolumbo 8y ago
  Well said and the other problem is that this technology can also become obsolete quite quickly - forcing you to throw out older hardware - creating waste. For example - speaking of Apple - my iPad 3 is stuck on iOS9 - can't upgrade it anymore. The hardware and everything is fine, but some websites don't load correctly etc. Migt have to jailbreak it... And I don't understand why people are willing to have a listening device like Alexa in their home.
  - wilsonnb3 8y ago
    There's already two smartphones and an iPad in my living room. Why should I care about adding a fourth listening device?
twblalock 8y ago
More evidence that integration and centralization create better experiences for developers and consumers. Amazon is very successful in this area, and one of the few companies with the resources to offer this level of integration and centralization. It’s a no-brainer for IoT companies to integrate with Alexa at this point. The problem is that nobody in the IoT industry seems to care about security, and Amazon does not seem to care about privacy.
baq 8y ago
once upon a time, on a site called slashdot, there was a meme (not sure if it was called that back then) about our robotic overlords. i've suddelny realized how close to home it's now hitting and am very nervous about the future.
- scarface74 8y ago
  It was first popularized by the Simpsons. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-insect-overlords https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-ins...
GuB-42 8y ago
They didn't address the biggest "pain point" of "smart homes" aka home automation or domotics. The biggest issue is the lack of a universal standard. A home is not a smartphone you can replace every 2 years. Things are measured in decades, and changes may require expensive and time consuming work in addition to the cost of the product itself. I looked into home automation when I had to work on an old house. I looked into KNX, which seemed to be a good standard: adopted by several manufacturers, robust, etc... The biggest problem, beside the price, is that I can't buy the hardware I want (ex: A/C unit) and expect it to connect to my network. Most of them don't have any smart feature, and those that do are restricted to a single system that even if it lasts may not be what will be popular 5 years from now. In home building, almost everything is standardized. Power plugs, dimensions of appliances, pipe fittings, etc... Smart home won't take off unless it is the case too. Any yet, maybe because it looks like the next big thing, companies try to lock down the market instead of first working together. The worst part is that the "smart home" is not a new thing at all. We had most of the technology decades ago, it never took of for that reason, and it seems like all we can do is repeat the same mistake. Cloud and AI are new but it doesn't change the deal at all. If you can't get appliances to talk the same language, it isn't going to work. As for the incentive for the companies involved, getting your money or getting your data is essentially the same thing.
- kazen44 8y ago
  > I looked into home automation when I had to work on an old house. I looked into KNX, which seemed to be a good standard: adopted by several manufacturers, robust, etc... The biggest problem, beside the price, is that I can't buy the hardware I want (ex: A/C unit) and expect it to connect to my network. You could integrate KNX into IP, but that would require another server which is either dreadfully expensive, or just way to complex to maintain for an average house. Also, i don't know how it is in the US, but many buildings around my area lack any proper cabling infrastructure because they are ancient. Things like having cable gutters for ethernet and coaxial connections. Most have a single coaxial cable coming in from the floor directly into the living room. (because that is where the TV/radio used to be). These buildings are unlikely to be broken down because of their high value, but renovating them would cost a fortune. Currently no proper standard for wireless home automation exists.
fredley 8y ago
The microwave is a genius move. The key thing is that it's a really cheap microwave. Most people who need a microwave don't want or need anything special, and will buy the cheapest decent-looking one, and this is where the Amazon microwave sits. They'll sell crate-loads of them. And all those people will then have a device sitting in their home with the potential to connect to Alexa. So if/when they decide they want to play the smart home game, they'll think 'Oh well we already have one Alexa device, so lets get an Alexa'.
- kazen44 8y ago
  How many people own a microwave though? Most people i know don't have one and would rather spend to money on getting a proper oven. Microwaves also seem like they have little use compared to things like a stove or oven. Atleast i personally have barely used a microwave when cooking.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    This is another example of the old Slashdot comment “do people still watch TV? I haven’t owned a TV in 15 years”. 98.6% of households own a microwave. https://www.census.gov/history/www/homepage_archive/2015/october_2015.html https://www.census.gov/history/www/homepage_archive/2015/oct...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - markn951 8y ago
    ...what? What is your life like that most people you know don’t have a _microwave_? I don’t think I’ve ever met _anyone_ without a microwave.
    - kazen44 8y ago
      maybe this is a cultural/regional thing? I am not from the US.
  - cthalupa 8y ago
davedx 8y ago
Amazon is no Apple.
BerislavLopac 8y ago
I would say that the main difference was that, in its heyday, Apple was looking and developing solutions for specific problems most people were not actually aware they were having. On the other hand, Amazon has a bunch of really solid solutions, very well executed, and is now experimenting with known problems they can be applied to.
newscracker 8y ago
Is Amazon the new Samsung? Make as many products and product variants as possible, throw them against the wall and see what sticks? It's not like its shareholders mind having little to no profits. Selling things for cheap or below cost helps it "innovate rapidly" (aka trial and error)? P.S.: Samsung does make some good quality hardware in a few areas. I don't know if the same can be said of Amazon.

98 points by imartin2k 8y ago

It would be so cool if Amazon had their own OS instead of relying on Android. They could use this on their Fire tablets and even have their own unique phone with a unique OS to sell. It's sad that the we have to choose between Android and iOS at every instance. I know of very few competitors (Like Purism).

user812 8y ago
Ironically if Google will indeed switch to Fuchsia or another in-house OS, Android may survive in some form as their biggest competitor.
- mattnewton 8y ago
  I can’t see them doing that without some form of binary compatibility. Disclaimer: I work at google, but in an unrelated department, and have no inside knowledge / reads about what is going on with fuscia, and so my opinions aren’t more insightful than any other random engineer on the internet.
- binomialxenon 8y ago
  A fork of Android would probably be most successful in China where they don't rely on Google apps and services. I don't think there's much of a market for Android without Google outside of China. I'm curious how long Google!Android will be supported once Fuschia launches. Maybe 2-3 years, and it depends on how many existing Android devices can move to Fuschia.
  - foepys 8y ago
    I don't think they will release Fuchsia and then immediately abandon Android. They will most likely release it for some low-end phones first and then work their way up. Maybe even release a Fuchsia Chromebook before any Fuchsia smartphone. Android's strength over Windows Phone was the app ecosystem and I don't think an emulator will instantly be good enough to emulate all kinds of apps with sufficient performance, especially games.
    - binomialxenon 8y ago
      It doesn't need to be an emulator. It would more likely be a compatibility layer, like Alien Dalvik or Wine.
sorokod 8y ago
Like turkeys wishing for another thanksgiving.
tortasaur 8y ago
If Amazon had a mobile OS, it would probably be proprietary. Android has its faults, but at least an open Android stack is possible. I can't say I'd like to see Android lose ground to whatever Amazon would cook up.
- binomialxenon 8y ago
  I'd be happy for Android to lose some ground to competitors such as Windows, Sailfish, Tizen, a hypothetical Amazon OS, or almost anything else. While I appreciate the usable non-Google Android stack, the duopoly has gone too far, and there needs to be more competition in order to drive innovation and differentiating features. Plus, it's not like Android will suddenly become less viable if it were to drop from ~85% to 65% market share.
theyusedto 8y ago
They do. Or at least, they did. Well, sort-of, in the sense that it was still Linux. The e-ink kindles - at least the first several generations, I have no idea about the recent ones - were a pretty vanilla Linux with a java userspace managing the UI - but NOT android. The original Echo seems to use a version of the e-ink Kindle's OS, while newer Echos use FireOS aka Amazon's android fork. Amazon really tried to make FireOS work as a google-free mobile OS, but just never got the volume. Ok, I guess they still sell those $50 tablets or whatever, but millions of Firedroid devices is still a rounding error compared to billions of Google Playdroid devices, or even hundreds of millions of Baidroid devices. Network effects dominate - even Apple has a hard time with maps for exactly this reason.

Tepix 8y ago

Amazon is a company that wants to know everything about me, just like Google. They want to sell me all kinds of stuff. Not a company I'd trust with private data about my home.

lykr0n 8y ago
That's my concern as well. I love the idea of home automation, but I don't want someone else to have that data. It sucks, but we're the minority here.
- acidburnNSA 8y ago
  We're all in luck because the Home Assistant community [1] is on it. It's still a bit of a tinkerer's domain but things are rapidly evolving and becoming more user friendly. [1] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-big/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/09/17/thinking-big/
  - kazen44 8y ago
    Also, IKEA has simple, but very effective home automation (lighting and plugs for now though more will come) that is dead simple to use and can work without an internet connection[1] Also, home assistant integration is dead easy and it's very cheap compared to comparable products. (Especially because amazon's offerings are vastly overpriced in countries where they have no locations). https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/04/ikea-tradfri-a-smart-light-in-the-darkness-of-iot-security/ https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/04/ikea-tradfri-a-smart-light...
    - tfha 8y ago
      "Works without an Internet connection" That's all I want. Why did the first two generations of smart home equipment require a cloud? That's harder to develop. blegh
      - CamperBob2 8y ago

draw_down 8y ago

But they never deliver an experience that’s on par with Apple. Everything they do always feels so utilitarian and driven by data rather than a more holistic (for lack of a better term) approach to design

patryn20 8y ago

While I'm aware anecdote is not the same as data, I really feel that the smart home experience vis-a-vis Alexa is getting worse. It no longer recognizes simple voice commands. Third party integrations constantly need to be reset ("I'm sorry, I can't find that." or "If you want to use SiriusXM, please open Alexa on your phone."). Randomly swaps responses between devices across the house whereas it would always respond with the nearest device in the past. Etc. Etc. Etc. It's the same sort of things that keeps happening with maps programs, smartphones, and basically any modern tech with software updates. No one can leave well enough alone. They have to put their fingerprints on it in order to advance their careers, so everyone mucks around and breaks things and calls it an improvement. Frankly I'm just tired of expensive devices getting worse with every single software update.

Terretta 8y ago
More anecdata — my wife and Alexa got along only about half the time at launch, and a few years later it’s down to 1/4 or less. Meanwhile, HomePod Siri understands her 9/10. Every room has both, both are able to manage all devices, and Alexa was here first. Because of comprehension challenge, Alexa has been abandoned, now the only time Alexa wakes up is for TV mentions. Note, not talking about syntax, talking about whether the words she said are what the device says she said. Also agree about wrong devices in wrong rooms answering. Used to work, now doesn’t.
- toyg 8y ago
  I've read the same about Google Home. I have one and use it very little, but the related forums are full of "X used work and now it doesn't, wtf?!?". "Upgraditis" has become a scourge.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  my wife and Alexa got along only about half the time at launch, and a few years later it’s down to 1/4 or less. My wife has the almost identical problem with Siri. She has a very slight northern plains accent, but it's enough to confound Siri about 25% of the time. It's worse with Microsoft's horrible "Blue & Me" system. That thing understands her only 5% of the time. She gave up on using it. Siri understands what I say almost all the time, but only rarely knows what to do with the questions or commands I speak. Except for one app: Reminders. For some reason, Siri has a hard time when I add things to Reminders lists. I have a Groceries list with about 30 items on it that are bad Siri misinterpretations of things that I want to buy, and I have no idea what they're supposed to be. Things currently on my Groceries list that, thanks to Siri, that I have no idea what they are but keep them anyway just in case I figure them out later: Canned pills, Maybe to la, Bicycle, Not what I said, North, Raisin berry, Frog nodes, Special, Compound dirt.

shimon 8y ago

There's a really interesting strategic move here that I hadn't previously realized. Amazon is bundling some perpetual cloud service cost into their new connectivity module. They're solving a cost problem for device makers in a way that can address a critical risk for consumers. With perpetual cloud support, the long term maintenance costs of a novel connected device are much lower, and there's less of a chance that your smart devices suddenly die after a year or two when the manufacturer kills that product line. If done right, this could mean the ability to buy any off-brand or startup device product and not worry about losing ongoing support. This could significantly increase choices and lower costs for consumers, and gives Amazon an even more powerful voice in the ongoing direction of alexa-integrates products. It's also a brilliantly unique move, in that no other company can offer the same blend of services around a smart home device. Conceivably, Amazon could enrich this with purchase and provisioning, i.e. every device sold through Amazon.com gets a certain lifetime support guarantee and arrives at your house provisioned for your wifi. This could make experimenting with new gadgets a lot lower risk.

alkonaut 8y ago

I have high hopes for smart home and IoT appliances which is still mostly terrible. But Amazon seems to still believe that voice interactions are not just a feature of future smart homes, but essential. I have never seen the need to voice control anything in my home, and I likely never will. I don’t want AI I want simple, cheap reliable and interconnectable automation hardware. The first home automation tech I want is normal lightswitches everywhere and a hotel style master switch at the front door. The home automation/smart home tech I can easily get is a speaker that can order things? I think IKEA seem to be a lot closer to revolutionizing smart homes than Amazon.

Swenrekcah 8y ago
voice commands are essential for them to spy on everything you say
blhack 8y ago
Just an anecdote: my wife and I absolutly use Alexa as a controller for our house, even though "easier" solutions exist. Just shouting "Alexa, Time!" has completely replaced looking at a clock. The only thing I don't like is using it to turn on the bathroom light, but only because the noise might wake up others in the house.
tajen 8y ago
The simple fact that no-one ever used the fancy buttons on a microwave, and everyone presses the « +30s » nine times, is a glaring demonstration that we don’t even have a use of the middleman that tries to control the control for us, even if we’ve already been forced to pay the higher price-point of it. It’s a bit like the barman that’s between the coffee machine and me: I’d be glad to pay a but more and do the coffee properly myself than having this wonderfully complex talking machine known as bartender between the machine and me.
slantyyz 8y ago
> I have never seen the need... Nobody "needs" any of this stuff. But once you factor in laziness and convenience, "normal" people are willing to make tradeoffs. I know I don't need Alexa, but when you've got grocery bags in both hands and it's dark, being able to turn on the lights by voice is handy even though it's far from "needed". And when it works well enough most of the time, it's easy to become dependent on it. For some things, voice is way more convenient than pulling out your phone and fumbling with an app (like changing a setting on a Nest). A slightly related but different example: I just tried installing a pihole in my network, and it ended up being a total headache. My wife likes using deal sites for shopping, and they like to redirect to a half dozen tracking sites before landing you on the e-store you want. And of course, the pihole got in the way of her shopping. The pihole ended up being way more trouble than it was worth and got decommissioned after only a couple of days, as white listing is a time consuming cat and mouse game I didn't want to play. My wife cares more about her $5 shopping rebate than she does her information being passed around to marketing companies, because the tradeoff is worth it. I don't think my wife is much different from most normal consumers in that regard.

Tloewald 8y ago

If there’s one thing Apple did, with Steve Jobs, other than build fantastic user experience out of mature but unapproachable technologies, it was communicating the fact that it had done so. Not only has Amazon failed to do this, the writer has as well. I think it’s pretty cool that, in theory, I could say “Alexa, turn on the oven to 450” and it would (a) turn the correct device to the correct setting and (b) remind me when it was ready (or if it’s being super duper smart, tell me that it was 2 mins or so away from being ready) so that I could stagger over to the kitchen, pull a pizza out of the fridge or freezer, unwrap it, and stick it in the oven. All I need to do is have a bunch of speakers bugging my home, a new oven, ideally probably not two new ovens or not a new oven and a new toaster oven because god knows what will happen, and all this stuff networked. Or I can walk over to the oven, turn it to 450, and say “Hey Siri, set timer for ten minutes” and wander off. When my wrist buzzes, I go stick a pizza in the oven and I say, “Hey Siri, set timer for thirteen minutes” and go do stuff. I don’t need a new oven. I don’t need to worry that I’ll pick the wrong oven. I’m not inviting Amazon to parse all my conversations. I don’t need to learn a new magic phrase. Oh and imagine the hilarity when you try to sell or rent your house and the internet gets turned off. We had a smart sprinkler system which, when we sold the house, we essentially had to rip out because it was easier to install a conventional replacement than figure out how to talk to it without an active WiFi.

kazen44 8y ago
the internet connectivity requirement is silly, especially if you want to build a long term system. This guy has a great youtube channel[1] which documents how he builds his home automation system (in house). Would highly recommend watching his videos. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUEKr_48EfQ&list=PL8mjSseObLTkPkkcLofUzh3VciEvboYtK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUEKr_48EfQ&list=PL8mjSseObL...
- BatFastard 8y ago
  His solution is interesting if you want to rewire your whole house.
WalterBright 8y ago

blfr 8y ago

I don't like the idea of home automation and these complex, all-in-one systems in general. They are just bound to fail. And not even in some spectacular fashion, they will just be a grind to use with this or that piece not working correctly, requiring fiddling, etc. Like my rather pricey, fully automatic Nivona coffee machine which has a really hard time beating a manual coffee grinder and a French press since they don't require descaling, special cleaning tablets, or adjusting the tray sensor to notice that the tray is back in. Or like these home audio solutions where the sound is following you around the house in whatever configuration you want but have a hard time beating a simple bluetooth adapter connected to an old hifi. Both at 1/50th of the price. What works and what I would like however are some simple technological improvements to existing solutions. For example, being able to check if I closed and locked the door behind me. More like that bluetooth adapter than a complex integrated solution. Also, it really doesn't need to relay my conversations to the cloud. What a terrible trade-off for a silly gimmick.

tomp 8y ago
Exactly. I think humanity hasn’t mastered building complex software systems yet. In addition, I’m not sure I want proprietary, closed source software in something that is supposed to last 10 (car) to 50 (house) years... what if the company goes under, bugs are discovered but not fixed, or simply it’s no longer profitable to support your version..
uxcolumbo 8y ago
Well said and the other problem is that this technology can also become obsolete quite quickly - forcing you to throw out older hardware - creating waste. For example - speaking of Apple - my iPad 3 is stuck on iOS9 - can't upgrade it anymore. The hardware and everything is fine, but some websites don't load correctly etc. Migt have to jailbreak it... And I don't understand why people are willing to have a listening device like Alexa in their home.
- wilsonnb3 8y ago
  There's already two smartphones and an iPad in my living room. Why should I care about adding a fourth listening device?

twblalock 8y ago

More evidence that integration and centralization create better experiences for developers and consumers. Amazon is very successful in this area, and one of the few companies with the resources to offer this level of integration and centralization. It’s a no-brainer for IoT companies to integrate with Alexa at this point. The problem is that nobody in the IoT industry seems to care about security, and Amazon does not seem to care about privacy.

baq 8y ago

once upon a time, on a site called slashdot, there was a meme (not sure if it was called that back then) about our robotic overlords. i've suddelny realized how close to home it's now hitting and am very nervous about the future.

scarface74 8y ago
It was first popularized by the Simpsons. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-insect-overlords https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-ins...

GuB-42 8y ago

They didn't address the biggest "pain point" of "smart homes" aka home automation or domotics. The biggest issue is the lack of a universal standard. A home is not a smartphone you can replace every 2 years. Things are measured in decades, and changes may require expensive and time consuming work in addition to the cost of the product itself. I looked into home automation when I had to work on an old house. I looked into KNX, which seemed to be a good standard: adopted by several manufacturers, robust, etc... The biggest problem, beside the price, is that I can't buy the hardware I want (ex: A/C unit) and expect it to connect to my network. Most of them don't have any smart feature, and those that do are restricted to a single system that even if it lasts may not be what will be popular 5 years from now. In home building, almost everything is standardized. Power plugs, dimensions of appliances, pipe fittings, etc... Smart home won't take off unless it is the case too. Any yet, maybe because it looks like the next big thing, companies try to lock down the market instead of first working together. The worst part is that the "smart home" is not a new thing at all. We had most of the technology decades ago, it never took of for that reason, and it seems like all we can do is repeat the same mistake. Cloud and AI are new but it doesn't change the deal at all. If you can't get appliances to talk the same language, it isn't going to work. As for the incentive for the companies involved, getting your money or getting your data is essentially the same thing.

kazen44 8y ago
> I looked into home automation when I had to work on an old house. I looked into KNX, which seemed to be a good standard: adopted by several manufacturers, robust, etc... The biggest problem, beside the price, is that I can't buy the hardware I want (ex: A/C unit) and expect it to connect to my network. You could integrate KNX into IP, but that would require another server which is either dreadfully expensive, or just way to complex to maintain for an average house. Also, i don't know how it is in the US, but many buildings around my area lack any proper cabling infrastructure because they are ancient. Things like having cable gutters for ethernet and coaxial connections. Most have a single coaxial cable coming in from the floor directly into the living room. (because that is where the TV/radio used to be). These buildings are unlikely to be broken down because of their high value, but renovating them would cost a fortune. Currently no proper standard for wireless home automation exists.

fredley 8y ago

The microwave is a genius move. The key thing is that it's a really cheap microwave. Most people who need a microwave don't want or need anything special, and will buy the cheapest decent-looking one, and this is where the Amazon microwave sits. They'll sell crate-loads of them. And all those people will then have a device sitting in their home with the potential to connect to Alexa. So if/when they decide they want to play the smart home game, they'll think 'Oh well we already have one Alexa device, so lets get an Alexa'.

kazen44 8y ago
How many people own a microwave though? Most people i know don't have one and would rather spend to money on getting a proper oven. Microwaves also seem like they have little use compared to things like a stove or oven. Atleast i personally have barely used a microwave when cooking.
- scarface74 8y ago
  This is another example of the old Slashdot comment “do people still watch TV? I haven’t owned a TV in 15 years”. 98.6% of households own a microwave. https://www.census.gov/history/www/homepage_archive/2015/october_2015.html https://www.census.gov/history/www/homepage_archive/2015/oct...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- markn951 8y ago
  ...what? What is your life like that most people you know don’t have a _microwave_? I don’t think I’ve ever met _anyone_ without a microwave.
  - kazen44 8y ago
    maybe this is a cultural/regional thing? I am not from the US.
- cthalupa 8y ago

davedx 8y ago

Amazon is no Apple.

BerislavLopac 8y ago

I would say that the main difference was that, in its heyday, Apple was looking and developing solutions for specific problems most people were not actually aware they were having. On the other hand, Amazon has a bunch of really solid solutions, very well executed, and is now experimenting with known problems they can be applied to.

newscracker 8y ago

Is Amazon the new Samsung? Make as many products and product variants as possible, throw them against the wall and see what sticks? It's not like its shareholders mind having little to no profits. Selling things for cheap or below cost helps it "innovate rapidly" (aka trial and error)? P.S.: Samsung does make some good quality hardware in a few areas. I don't know if the same can be said of Amazon.