6 ms·

I saw harvard.edu and was optimistic that this was going to be a real study. Instead it was just "haha, IRS support sucks, monopolies are bad." I've called the

I saw harvard.edu and was optimistic that this was going to be a real study. Instead it was just "haha, IRS support sucks, monopolies are bad." I've called the IRS support line multiple times for fairly non-trivial problems and had nothing but good experiences.

stephenhuey 8y ago
Without fail it was a minimum of one hour of wait time every time I called which isn’t good for me. How about you?
- ghouse 8y ago
  I've got some sympathy for the IRS (in this limited case) -- their budget is cut by small-government crusaders, thus reducing service, angering taxpayers and thus aligning public sentiment against the IRS. Same political ideology also works to make the tax code more complicated, also achieving the same objective. But then they're prevented from simplifying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383
  - hueving 8y ago
    Large government ideology doesn't help the tax code either. Complex tax codes are a result of special tax breaks for any purpose.
    - rtkwe 8y ago
      Poor service though is more about lack of resources than the complexity of the tax code.
  - United857 8y ago
    It's not so much the fault of those who want small government, but actually the likes of Intuit, etc. lobbying against tax code simplification so they can protect their business models: https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-free-simple-hr-block-intuit-lobbying-against-it https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-fre...
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  If you have a balance due, calling the department responsible for collecting the balance is actually much faster. Don’t call the normal 1040 line, call the people who deal with money...they can do most of what the 1040 people can do and never have much of a wait.
- Endy 8y ago
  I don't mind a wait if it means competent service on the most essential part of our society. I've called them for both business and personal issues with taxes and while it was by no means 'fun', they were both willing and able to help. Now, the experience with Google Ads, that I can wholeheartedly echo. Every time I've spoken to them, it's just been a further waste of my time; and I can say the same of Yelp, too. So I think the core idea has merit - a private business' need to maintain and grow a customer base can be identified by how well they support current customers rather than how aggressively they advertise to new potential customers. But like boys and girls, public government and private business are different.
- goatherders 8y ago
  The key is to call right when they open at 8a EST. Wait times are usually about 20 minutes then. The rest if the day it's at least 45.
huy-nguyen 8y ago
I had to call the IRS once a few years ago to dispute their dispute of my tax returns and was put on hold for 2 hours, only to be told that my returns were correct all along.
- DuskStar 8y ago
  Being put on hold like that sucks... But isn't that the outcome you wanted?
- ademup 8y ago
  At this point, I would pay a few thousand dollars to be able to say that 'My secific issue with the government, which was created by them, was solved in about 2 hours'.
  - dredmorbius 8y ago
    Or a very small fraction of that in taxes, also ensuring vastly more equitable collections.
- rory096 8y ago
  Last year I waited on hold for 45 minutes. When I reached the representative, she said she could only help me with generic questions rather than account-specific ones because her computer system was down. I asked when they expected the issue to be resolved so I could call back then, only to be told "Oh, it's just my system that's down. I'm just required to keep answering calls."
SeanLuke 8y ago
Me too. In the past, the IRS has been very helpful to me with suggestions for complex situations. I can only say positive things about their support. Perhaps now that they've been so defunded their support is bad, I don't know.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  Same for me. I had a few tax issues 10 years ago and they were super helpful. Probably one of the best customer support experiences I have ever had.
nostromo 8y ago
Cool anecdote, but actual data shows how horrific their wait times are: usually between an hour and an hour and a half: https://blog.callenq.com/irs-hold-times-disconnect-data-10k/ https://blog.callenq.com/irs-hold-times-disconnect-data-10k/ And that's if you're lucky enough to get to talk to someone. One third of calls are summarily disconnected. > Our study showed that 1 out of 3 calls to the IRS Collections Line for Businesses would be disconnected, with this sometimes occurring after 2 hours of waiting.
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  And who sets that budget?
- EdwardDiego 8y ago
  Our taxation department lets you schedule an automatic callback when you reach the head of the queue if the wait time is likely to exceed 5 minutes.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    I've seen this with some financial institutions I am a customer of. It's an incredibly great practice that very few folks in the US deploy.
- furgooswft13 8y ago
  > One third of calls are summarily disconnected. The disconnects are the worst part of so-called customer support because I know it is likely to happen especially as the hold time goes on. Worse when you call back they've somehow lost all the information you previously gave them 3 times over.
  - rtkwe 8y ago
    Blame dumb call center metrics, intentional disconnects like that keep the average wait time down which allows bad call centers to look better in reports.
goatherders 8y ago
I think the IRS had tremendous support. The people are knowledgeable and almost always compassionate. They know you are probably at least a little scared and work to find a solution that doesnt add to your fear.
dlhavema 8y ago
Same here. I've gotten through multiple times. Sure I waited on the line 10 to 15 minutes each time. But I was expecting it longer hold times...
pessimizer 8y ago
No, this is no more insightful that when your uncle joked about the same thing at the last family barbecue, and less funny. Yes, companies don't spend on things that won't make them money, unless there's a problem in the company. When you have no competition, you don't have to worry about any quality of your business being worse than the competition.
Nasrudith 8y ago
I had horrible times with the IRS. Including demanding to speak to me directly despite a speech impediment that often makes me hard to understand in the phone and then hanging up because they couldn't understand me. I think that is an ADA violation. After doing stuff like mixing up tax payment checks and applying my parents' tax payment check to mine and my smaller one to theirs. I don't mind paying taxes just make the system streamlined okay.
blazespin 8y ago
IRS was a bad example as they are not a typical business. They have to worry about voters.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  Surely IRS are civil service and so are required specifically not to worry about voters. If you're a non-voter you still get "service" from the IRS (though many might wish they didn't!). You can vote out your representatives but you can't usually directly vote out any element of your civil service.
- jonny_eh 8y ago
  How? They don't have a lobby. They don't advocate for any politicians or party. You can't vote for or against the IRS.
xae342 8y ago
I’ve called the IRS recently due to them losing my filings, hard to get a person on the phone, even their advocates told me everyone struggles with it, the robot hangs up on you, when you do get someone they have no idea what to do an transfer you around, some agents just make things up, contradict policies they just told you. I ended up physically going to their office to drop off the paper work to get an official receipt they received my filing for when they lose it again. Next step is contacting my local congresswomen’s office for help. My experience at least with something very simple.
- gav 8y ago
  What's worse about the IRS than most is any instructions given to you by them are not part of tax-law, so you can't rely on them. I had firsthand experience of this when I called to try to resolve some issues from a prior year. I talked to the agent and then acted on their advice. I later received a letter in the mail stating that the advice that was given was possibly not legal and that I would be on the hook for any fees and penalties if I followed it. Luckily for me there was no consequences, but it made the whole process extra stressful.
ellyagg 8y ago
Ironic that you complained about lack of data and then launched into an anecdote. I have a few anecdotes about the DMV. I wonder if research would back up my hunch that the DMV is really bad at customer service. I'd certainly bet on it in a prediction market.
- gameswithgo 8y ago
  which DMV? In Texas I've been to some DMV offices that were terrible and some that were a joy.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    I've experienced the hit/miss DMVs in Texas, and it's similar in the PNW (if you avoid the major metro downtowns, then it's all miss). I've heard horror stories about the DMV in CA.
    - Thlom 8y ago
      Why do you need to visit the DMV all the time? Do you have to renew your drivers license in person every x years? I'm from Norway, and the only time I've had to visit our DMV was when I took the driving test to get my license.
      - tpxl 8y ago
        Vehicle registration every year. I've been to multiple in my country in EU, and it's always been a joy. Short wait times and pleasant staff.
      - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
        Norway is completely different :) I'm american living in Norway. I'm not legal to drive, but my Norwegian spouse is and I've gone through buying a car and figured out some of these differences. He thinks the American system is insane (and is right, comparatively). You do have to renew your drivers licence every x years, but in some states you can do that online at times. Instead of the population register, where you update your address, most places in the US do that through your drivers license. Most people's main form of ID is their license as well and most states want pictures to be updated. Some states have different backgrounds for those under 21 (the drinking age) as well. Buying a car requires a trip to the DMV as well. There is no option of simply waiting for your papers in the mail. To complicate things further, in some states the physical license plate isn't associated with the car, but with the person owning the car. In many states, you have to also register your car every year and update your plates. Some states you can do this online, however, in many cases. That is on top of things like getting your drivers licence, learning permits, and all of those little things.

stephenhuey 8y ago

Without fail it was a minimum of one hour of wait time every time I called which isn’t good for me. How about you?

ghouse 8y ago
I've got some sympathy for the IRS (in this limited case) -- their budget is cut by small-government crusaders, thus reducing service, angering taxpayers and thus aligning public sentiment against the IRS. Same political ideology also works to make the tax code more complicated, also achieving the same objective. But then they're prevented from simplifying - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17751383
- hueving 8y ago
  Large government ideology doesn't help the tax code either. Complex tax codes are a result of special tax breaks for any purpose.
  - rtkwe 8y ago
    Poor service though is more about lack of resources than the complexity of the tax code.
- United857 8y ago
  It's not so much the fault of those who want small government, but actually the likes of Intuit, etc. lobbying against tax code simplification so they can protect their business models: https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-free-simple-hr-block-intuit-lobbying-against-it https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-fre...
seanmcdirmid 8y ago
If you have a balance due, calling the department responsible for collecting the balance is actually much faster. Don’t call the normal 1040 line, call the people who deal with money...they can do most of what the 1040 people can do and never have much of a wait.
Endy 8y ago
I don't mind a wait if it means competent service on the most essential part of our society. I've called them for both business and personal issues with taxes and while it was by no means 'fun', they were both willing and able to help. Now, the experience with Google Ads, that I can wholeheartedly echo. Every time I've spoken to them, it's just been a further waste of my time; and I can say the same of Yelp, too. So I think the core idea has merit - a private business' need to maintain and grow a customer base can be identified by how well they support current customers rather than how aggressively they advertise to new potential customers. But like boys and girls, public government and private business are different.
goatherders 8y ago
The key is to call right when they open at 8a EST. Wait times are usually about 20 minutes then. The rest if the day it's at least 45.

huy-nguyen 8y ago

I had to call the IRS once a few years ago to dispute their dispute of my tax returns and was put on hold for 2 hours, only to be told that my returns were correct all along.

DuskStar 8y ago
Being put on hold like that sucks... But isn't that the outcome you wanted?
ademup 8y ago
At this point, I would pay a few thousand dollars to be able to say that 'My secific issue with the government, which was created by them, was solved in about 2 hours'.
- dredmorbius 8y ago
  Or a very small fraction of that in taxes, also ensuring vastly more equitable collections.
rory096 8y ago
Last year I waited on hold for 45 minutes. When I reached the representative, she said she could only help me with generic questions rather than account-specific ones because her computer system was down. I asked when they expected the issue to be resolved so I could call back then, only to be told "Oh, it's just my system that's down. I'm just required to keep answering calls."

SeanLuke 8y ago

Me too. In the past, the IRS has been very helpful to me with suggestions for complex situations. I can only say positive things about their support. Perhaps now that they've been so defunded their support is bad, I don't know.

maxxxxx 8y ago
Same for me. I had a few tax issues 10 years ago and they were super helpful. Probably one of the best customer support experiences I have ever had.

nostromo 8y ago

Cool anecdote, but actual data shows how horrific their wait times are: usually between an hour and an hour and a half: https://blog.callenq.com/irs-hold-times-disconnect-data-10k/ https://blog.callenq.com/irs-hold-times-disconnect-data-10k/ And that's if you're lucky enough to get to talk to someone. One third of calls are summarily disconnected. > Our study showed that 1 out of 3 calls to the IRS Collections Line for Businesses would be disconnected, with this sometimes occurring after 2 hours of waiting.

dredmorbius 8y ago
And who sets that budget?
EdwardDiego 8y ago
Our taxation department lets you schedule an automatic callback when you reach the head of the queue if the wait time is likely to exceed 5 minutes.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  I've seen this with some financial institutions I am a customer of. It's an incredibly great practice that very few folks in the US deploy.
furgooswft13 8y ago
> One third of calls are summarily disconnected. The disconnects are the worst part of so-called customer support because I know it is likely to happen especially as the hold time goes on. Worse when you call back they've somehow lost all the information you previously gave them 3 times over.
- rtkwe 8y ago
  Blame dumb call center metrics, intentional disconnects like that keep the average wait time down which allows bad call centers to look better in reports.

goatherders 8y ago

I think the IRS had tremendous support. The people are knowledgeable and almost always compassionate. They know you are probably at least a little scared and work to find a solution that doesnt add to your fear.

dlhavema 8y ago

Same here. I've gotten through multiple times. Sure I waited on the line 10 to 15 minutes each time. But I was expecting it longer hold times...

pessimizer 8y ago

No, this is no more insightful that when your uncle joked about the same thing at the last family barbecue, and less funny. Yes, companies don't spend on things that won't make them money, unless there's a problem in the company. When you have no competition, you don't have to worry about any quality of your business being worse than the competition.

Nasrudith 8y ago

I had horrible times with the IRS. Including demanding to speak to me directly despite a speech impediment that often makes me hard to understand in the phone and then hanging up because they couldn't understand me. I think that is an ADA violation. After doing stuff like mixing up tax payment checks and applying my parents' tax payment check to mine and my smaller one to theirs. I don't mind paying taxes just make the system streamlined okay.

blazespin 8y ago

IRS was a bad example as they are not a typical business. They have to worry about voters.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Surely IRS are civil service and so are required specifically not to worry about voters. If you're a non-voter you still get "service" from the IRS (though many might wish they didn't!). You can vote out your representatives but you can't usually directly vote out any element of your civil service.
jonny_eh 8y ago
How? They don't have a lobby. They don't advocate for any politicians or party. You can't vote for or against the IRS.

xae342 8y ago

I’ve called the IRS recently due to them losing my filings, hard to get a person on the phone, even their advocates told me everyone struggles with it, the robot hangs up on you, when you do get someone they have no idea what to do an transfer you around, some agents just make things up, contradict policies they just told you. I ended up physically going to their office to drop off the paper work to get an official receipt they received my filing for when they lose it again. Next step is contacting my local congresswomen’s office for help. My experience at least with something very simple.

gav 8y ago
What's worse about the IRS than most is any instructions given to you by them are not part of tax-law, so you can't rely on them. I had firsthand experience of this when I called to try to resolve some issues from a prior year. I talked to the agent and then acted on their advice. I later received a letter in the mail stating that the advice that was given was possibly not legal and that I would be on the hook for any fees and penalties if I followed it. Luckily for me there was no consequences, but it made the whole process extra stressful.

ellyagg 8y ago

Ironic that you complained about lack of data and then launched into an anecdote. I have a few anecdotes about the DMV. I wonder if research would back up my hunch that the DMV is really bad at customer service. I'd certainly bet on it in a prediction market.

gameswithgo 8y ago
which DMV? In Texas I've been to some DMV offices that were terrible and some that were a joy.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  I've experienced the hit/miss DMVs in Texas, and it's similar in the PNW (if you avoid the major metro downtowns, then it's all miss). I've heard horror stories about the DMV in CA.
  - Thlom 8y ago
    Why do you need to visit the DMV all the time? Do you have to renew your drivers license in person every x years? I'm from Norway, and the only time I've had to visit our DMV was when I took the driving test to get my license.
    - tpxl 8y ago
      Vehicle registration every year. I've been to multiple in my country in EU, and it's always been a joy. Short wait times and pleasant staff.
    - Broken_Hippo 8y ago
      Norway is completely different :) I'm american living in Norway. I'm not legal to drive, but my Norwegian spouse is and I've gone through buying a car and figured out some of these differences. He thinks the American system is insane (and is right, comparatively). You do have to renew your drivers licence every x years, but in some states you can do that online at times. Instead of the population register, where you update your address, most places in the US do that through your drivers license. Most people's main form of ID is their license as well and most states want pictures to be updated. Some states have different backgrounds for those under 21 (the drinking age) as well. Buying a car requires a trip to the DMV as well. There is no option of simply waiting for your papers in the mail. To complicate things further, in some states the physical license plate isn't associated with the car, but with the person owning the car. In many states, you have to also register your car every year and update your plates. Some states you can do this online, however, in many cases. That is on top of things like getting your drivers licence, learning permits, and all of those little things.