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Amazon Investigates Employees Leaking Data for Bribes
- clubm8 8y agoThis sounds interesting, does someone have a non-paywalled source?
- throwawaymath 8y agoSure: https://outline.com/AsPP9t https://outline.com/AsPP9t
- pliny 8y agoClick on 'web' underneath the title.
- mc32 8y agoThis principally is for Amazon China and not the US where despite years of complaints Amazon has done little to visibly counter the same effects and issues. To wit: "In exchange for payments ranging from roughly $80 to more than $2,000, brokers for Amazon employees in Shenzhen are offering internal sales metrics and reviewers’ email addresses, as well as a service to delete negative reviews and restore banned Amazon accounts, the people said." While not holding my breath, I hope amazon USA will take its issues in the US seriously and mitigate fake reviews and the issue with comingling bad and good inventories.
- jhwang5 8y agoWhy is this downvoted? Why does HN jump to conclusions and generalities when it comes to big corps?
- amelius 8y agoShouldn't there just be a law stating that doing such things as deleting negative reviews is fraud?
- mc32 8y agoA problem is many reviews are for a lack of a better term, unrigorous. Some are outright wrong (unrelated to item), vengeful (maybe comes up short, competitor), and of course astroturfing. So basically they are a signal, and bad actors act in bad faith, but there are also just people who don’t review properly or who don’t add context to their reviews. A more thorough system would be a bit more expensive. Gor example allowing either subject or reviewer a right to appeal to an arbiter, etc.,
- detaro 8y agoWhat about fraudulent negative reviews?
- akudha 8y agoThey will probably come down hard on someone selling sales metrics etc (assuming it is happening in the US), but probably leave the fake reviews etc alone. It is just business - anything that isn't a big enough problem (yet) for their bottom line, why would they care to change it? On the other hand, selling sales metrics etc is serious (Amazon almost never releases raw numbers, for example, sales of Kindle readers) enough for them to take action
- wongarsu 8y agoIf the customers lose trust in the review system that is a big hit. Maybe Amazon thinks they are entrenched enough that it doesn't matter though.
- WisNorCan 8y agoIn a company approaching a million employees, someone is doing something illegal/unethical every day. At that scale it doesn’t say anything about the culture as you are observing the outer ranges of a distribution.
- nostromo 8y agoThat’s why you build systems that don’t allow for abuse whenever possible. And when it’s not possible, you create an audit trail. For example, I trust Google to make my individual search history difficult for employees to access, specific search results difficult to change, and confidential data difficult to access.
- AJ007 8y agoGoogle has had corrupt employee problems in the Adwords department: https://techcrunch.com/2009/04/07/shoemoney-sues-google-employee-for-adwords-violations/ https://techcrunch.com/2009/04/07/shoemoney-sues-google-empl... I trust the security and audit trail on Google's engineering side. I definitely do not in other areas of the company.
- jjeaff 8y agoDo you have any reason to have that trust? Absent any evidence, I'm inclined to think that they do very little to protect my data. Had they any stringent controls in place, I feel like their PR or marketing would have communicated some of the specifics publicly.
- skybrian 8y agoIt's oriented towards Cloud customers, but there is some information here: https://cloud.google.com/security/overview/whitepaper#data_access_and_restrictions https://cloud.google.com/security/overview/whitepaper#data_a...
- wongarsu 8y agoThe Data Processing Terms for google cloud also provide some details (mostly appendix 2) https://cloud.google.com/terms/data-processing-terms https://cloud.google.com/terms/data-processing-terms You have to agree to those seperately, they are meant for GDPR compliance. GSuite has an equivalent document you can agree to too.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- 3pt14159 8y agoI've been wondering why this doesn't happen more often now that the crypto game has figured out international payments.
- bordercases 8y agoThe smarmy answer would be "because it's working".
- GenericsMotors 8y agoProbably because crypto is only useful insofar as it can be converted into useful fiat currencies, which means that it can be tracked.
- MrLeap 8y agoTons of bullion exchanges will allow you to buy precious metals with cryptocoin. How trackable is it if someone uses a new wallet for each transaction, and has their gold bars shipped to model homes and abandoned property within ~25-50 miles of their location? If you're speaking in absolutes, you're not using your imagination! I can think of tons of schemes to anonymously extract real world spending power from crypto coins..
- GenericsMotors 8y agoNone of those are particularly expedient, but you have a point. Crypto, the not-so-fast bullion-based international payment system. Perhaps the perpetrators might have better luck sending each other USD notes by mail instead.
- jedrek 8y agoWell, by doing that you go from maybe breaking an NDA to mail fraud, but w/e.
- gesman 8y agoThat's how Costco survives and prospers in Amazon era. By not exposing customers to shady vendors, misleading metrics and questionable product rankings based on fake reviews.
- anoncoward111 8y agoYes but Costco only has a specific set of things that I'm looking for, sometimes in too high quantities and at a price point that is not particularly amazing
- reaperducer 8y agoYes but Costco only has a specific set of things that I'm looking for I think, as a society, we're going to have to get away from the notion that buying everything in one place is the ideal. We distribute computing, diversify investments, and decentralize everything from government offices to manufacturing. I think a certain amount of decentralization in shopping is OK if it means I don't have to deal with Amazon's counterfeit products, fake reviews, and conmen. If I have to go back to the days of buying my groceries at the grocery store, my hardware at the hardware store, and my computers at the computer store, I'm OK with that. I travel out of my way to go to a real butcher where I can see the cows going in the back of the building, and the results in the cold case in front. I know the meat hasn't been frozen (coughWhole Foodscough), isn't in storage so long it has to be pumped full of gas to keep its color, and if I want exactly six ounces of something, I watch the guy cut it fresh right in front of my eyes. He's also an asshole, but I'd rather deal with his attitude than the perils, known and unknown, of a retail experience 100% controlled by an algorithm with no pride or ethics.
- Kalium 8y agoIs it perhaps possible that your priorities might not find a reflection in all hearts? Many people do not regard the time, energy, and resources that go into the logistics of managing many vendors to be good investments for them. This can be compared to distributed computing, somewhat distributed manufacturing, distributed government, and diversified financial portfolios. Each of the items you so correctly, wisely, and rightly point to comes with significant cost efficiencies and significant energy in reducing any inefficiencies introduced. I know a great many people who appreciate very high-quality meat of the sort you describe. The number who are willing to invest significantly into the personal logistics required to obtain it could potentially be a somewhat smaller number. To say nothing of the price premium generally demanded by such a specialist, or the impact this might have on household budgets with limited flexibility. It's worth thinking about why department stores might have became popular, long ago, displacing a series of highly specialized expert vendors. It's perhaps even possible that an analogy of a distributed computer system might lead a lesser intellect than yours astray.
- clubm8 8y ago>The practice, which violates company policy, is particularly pronounced in China, according to some of these people, because the number of sellers there is skyrocketing. As well, Amazon employees in China have relatively small salaries, which emboldens them to take risks. Sounds like Amazon is finding out the hard way that you need to pay for trust, not just skill. When you pay the absolute bare minimum to your employees, coupled with other coercive practices, you drastically increase the chances they will steal. There's a reason casino cage cashiers don't make minimum wage despite it being a low skill job, and it's not out of the goodness of their hearts.
- walshemj 8y agoAnd casinos have a large security staff and I suspect do better background checks than FANG companies do. Its the same at a large uk telco I worked at only a limited amount of people had widespread access to data and where positively vetted as well. I know one team leader who was going to have to pass DV (TS in US terms) clearance.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- AndrewKemendo 8y agoThis is counterintelligence 101. There are four traditional motivations of insider threats (MICE): M: Money I: Ideology C: Coercion E: Ego The thinking around that is changing, but the financial motivation is still at the top of the list. [1] https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/vol.-57-no.-1-a/vol.-57-no.-1-a-pdfs/Burkett-MICE%20to%20RASCALS.pdf https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intellig...
- fcuck_actuarial 8y agoI think M,I,and E (hopefully not C) could also be considered motivations for convincing someone to change jobs? (In my experience, recruiters from a well known FAANG company like to lean HEAVILY on E. Jokes on them, because the right answer is M!)
- lgats 8y agohttps://www.fullwsj.com/articles/amazon-investigates-employees-leaking-data-for-bribes-1537106401 https://www.fullwsj.com/articles/amazon-investigates-employe...
- koolba 8y agoThat redirect site is priceless.
- cwyers 8y agoWell, no, since just subscribing to the WSJ is only $10 a month, it's far from priceless.
- ChuckMcM 8y agoAlthough you pay a privacy hit (facebook gets it) this one (https://outline.com/AsPP9t https://outline.com/AsPP9t) not so much. And of course Blendle.com for when you are willing to pay to read one article in the WSJ but don't want to subscribe.
- seppin 8y agoDidn't work for me
- thsowers 8y agohttps://github.com/arthurpham/wsjUnblock https://github.com/arthurpham/wsjUnblock
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- neonate 8y agohttp://archive.is/nhMMI http://archive.is/nhMMI
- onetimemanytime 8y agoNot surprising, here's a scenario: It's 2007. A poker company, a credit card aff site or a lawyer referral service offers $250K cash to a Google Search employee for tips on how to rank #1 for their top keywords. Even $1 Million if it lasts for x months. All you need is b*lls, er audacity, which exists in certain pockets, and a little time to find a connection. I think they would be takers. Ranking on top would be worth (back then at least) tens of millions so why not share the FU money?
- dmix 8y ago> Amazon has worked hard to stop sellers from gaming its systems, but it can sometimes be a Whac-A-Mole situation as swindlers get more creative This is true in all security problems.
- itwy 8y ago> casino cage cashiers don't make minimum wage They actually do. Google it. It's below minimum.
- paulcole 8y agoHow can it possibly be below minimum?
- perl4ever 8y agoI found no evidence they are paid less than minimum wage, but I did find some claims casino-goers in the US are expected to tip cashiers, so perhaps the assumption is they are paid a tipped minimum wage instead of a regular one? That is not how jobs seem to be advertised though.
- mikestew 8y agoI’m no high roller, nor even much of a casino customer anymore, but having cashed in many tens of thousands of dollars of chips it would have never occurred to me to tip a cage cashier. They seem so disinterested in the fact that I’m standing there, it is not like they’re trying for tips. Nor have I even heard it mentioned. Now, I’m not a complete rube as I tip table and wait staff (heavily, if I’ve won big). But the person doing what I expect a casino to do: exchange their fake money for fiat? Never.
- electroly 8y agoThat is absolutely not true about tipping cashiers. I would disregard whatever source claimed that.
- bretpiatt 8y agoThis is not below minimum wage: The average Cage Cashier - Casino salary in the United States is $30,943 as of September 01, 2018, but the range typically falls between $25,713 and $39,285. Source: Salary for Cage Cashier - Casino | Salary.com
- astura 8y ago
- pmcollins 8y agoI was puzzled this week when I received an email offering me $30 to delete an accurate, but negative review I posted a few weeks ago. I also received yet another counterfeit item recently. Retailers should be happy about the rate at which Amazon is squandering trust.
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoWait, think twice? When the bounty is $30 apiece? I'm going to go write me a minivan
- testACCT321 8y agoThis is one of the best test comments ever. Its bigly.
- asdf1234tx 8y agoOn a some what related note, I read that google allows people to read my email. Google itself, and third parties. I've got friends who store important authentication, financial, and legal information in their emails. Makes me wonder about some of the btc thefts where the vector was never determined, and the victim was fairly competent.
- Ivoirians 8y agoIf you read that original WSJ article, Google allows companies to access your email if you give them access to your email. As in, if you install e.g. Kiwi [1] and agree to let them manage your inbox, then they have API keys that they could use to read your emails. Sometimes users just give their username/password to the 3rd party. But, like I said when the original story came out, those headline writers really know what they're doing. "Google allows 3rd parties to read emails" directly implies your incorrect interpretation. Like, even on the original article, people who hadn't read it were expressing shock in the comment section that their personal emails were being read by Google engineers. [1] https://www.kiwiforgmail.com/ https://www.kiwiforgmail.com/