24 ms·

Apple's best product is now privacy

• vinceguidry 8y ago
  Call me when people stop buying phones and start buying privacy. Maybe I'm being unnecessarily snarky, but is it really too much to ask for a business journalist to be able to tell the difference between a product and a feature?
• tjoff 8y ago
  Though I think apples "pro privacy" stance is likely just a happy accident I tend to agree. Either you choose a somewhat open platform, or you choose privacy. One would have thought/hoped that they were tightly coupled. As it is today I can not buy a phone without having a deep bottomless disdain for it. Not the hardware but the software. And I don't even expect that much. I have given up entirely, the slither of hope is that in the future we can decouple the smart in smart phone with the phone. A truly dumb phone that I can interface from another device, a device I have some control over that I don't have to sell my soul to.
  • tomp 8y ago
    > Either you choose a somewhat open platform, or you choose privacy Huh? Isn't Linux (the original one, not derivates like Android) relatively private, while being completely open?
    • wycy 8y ago
      Sure, but on any decent phone, the only Linux you're going to get is Android.
      • deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      • snaky 8y ago
        What's wrong with openness of Android flavour of Linux, called AOSP? Yes, the hardware drivers are mostly binary blobs, but there are many binary blob drivers for PC and other hardware on Linux.
      • rapnie 8y ago
        puri.sm Librem5 .. almost there.
    • gervase 8y ago
      I think the parent was implicitly referring to smartphone platforms. Certainly Linux is both the most open and most private option for general computing, which is probably why the parent was lamenting the fact that privacy and openness (in smartphones) are not tightly coupled.
    • smileysteve 8y ago
      Android itself is "open", but if you want to do much with it, you want it with Google Apps.
      • snaky 8y ago
        If by 'to do much with it' you mean asking the weather by voice, then yes. Otherwise, F-Droid provides open-source alternatives for many apps, and then many apps from Google Play Market actually work fine without Google Play Services.
    • MorrisofOrange 8y ago
      The discussion currently is about phones. You either have google's android which is open but sells your info or ios which is closed but private. Ive been saying for years we need a Linux for phones. I don't have the knowhow but I would gladly donate funds towards a system.
  • emsy 8y ago
    Same here. Whenever I get caught up in some religious phone OS war I say I chose the platform I hate the least. I wish I could love my iPhone, but there are so many things wrong with it which could easily be solved without compromising anything product wise.
    • bayindirh 8y ago
      I'm asking this as a thought experiment, nothing personal. What if, fixing things the way you like breaks these features for someone else?
      • glogla 8y ago
        What would having headphone jack break?
        • arihant 8y ago
          Two things: 1. There's really no space for it, if you look at teardowns. So something took its place. 2. It does give better water resistance. Google the water resistance tests between iPhones and others. The difference is night and day in real world performance.
          • harshalizee 8y ago
            1. No. Teardowns have shown nothing of that sort. It's a marketing decision to push people to buy $170 airpods. In fact, there's a very popular tech blogger's video where he successfully adds in a headphone jack[1] to his iPhone 8. 2. No. Samsung phones are far more water resistant than iPhones are with a jack on it. I would love to see your links to said research. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfbE3_uAMA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utfbE3_uAMA
            • dao- 8y ago
              Re: water resistance – Sony is pretty good there too, but last time I plunged my phone, the headphone jack itself was acting up until it had dried out. I guess there's no way around that. Edit: Oh, and when I broke my older model with saltwater, they replaced it. Twice.
  • octosphere 8y ago
    Have you looked into CopperheadOS[1]? I would like to hear your thoughts on it. They even have a store where you can buy Pixel phones flashed with CopperheadOS. They're a bit pricey though ($1000+). I personally would rather flash it myself to save some money. [1] https://copperhead.co https://copperhead.co
    • subway 8y ago
      CopperheadOS is a very questionable choice these days. The author lost control of the company and was booted by the business tool. https://www.reddit.com/r/CopperheadOS/comments/8qdnn3/goodbye/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CopperheadOS/comments/8qdnn3/goodby...
      • ejo4041 8y ago
        Anything new on that front that you have heard? I remember the meltdown but haven't heard anything since. Looks like the business guy is just continuing to sell what they had and then no updates ever. Once people get sick of that, maybe the company just goes away?
        • subway 8y ago
          No clue. As I understand it, the author destroyed the signing keys, so updates aren't even possible. A fresh build with new signing keys would need to be flashed out of band.
        • aesh2Xa1 8y ago
          The original author stated his intent to fork and resume the project under a new name and with a new device set, but probably still the Pixel line.
          • monocasa 8y ago
            Didn't the license prevent forks?
  • gvurrdon 8y ago
    There's nothing on the market now that I'd actually like to buy. Apple do seem to have some respect for privacy at the moment, but it's still a phone that scans the user's face (far too creepy for me) or makes it difficult to restrict outgoing connections (I'm not keen on apps connecting to flurry, facebook and so on).
    • jaegerpicker 8y ago
      iOS has fantastic support for ad blockers and network proxies that make it INCREDIBLY easy to block outgoing connections. In my experience it works far better than Androids version of that. Face tracking for faceId you can turn off but I agree it can be creepy. So far it's been limited to only on the device and encrypted so I've been ok with it but that's obviously a very personal choice.
      • leadingthenet 8y ago
        Could you please provide an example of these proxies that one could use to block outgoing connections? I'm only aware of Ad-blockers that do so for incoming ones.
        • kilo_bravo_3 8y ago
          The only solution I have found is to run an OpenVPN server at home and stay connected to it constantly. I lose a microscopically-minuscule amount of battery life, and a few percentage points of WAN throughput but it is worth it. I then have content rules on the firewall between the OpenVPN server and the Internet. As an added benefit, this makes the monitoring done by all cellphone providers (not just Verizon!) irrelevant because all they see is a constant, 24x7 stream of encrypted traffic to the same IP address.
        • pronoiac 8y ago
          Not OP, but Charles Proxy came to mind: https://www.charlesproxy.com/documentation/ios/ https://www.charlesproxy.com/documentation/ios/ I think it's come up here a few times, with various anecdotes about surfacing badly behaving apps.
  • on_and_off 8y ago
    I am a senior app developer and I love some of the features that come with a smartphone (google photos often feels like magic) but I have got to admit, I am tempted to just dump my personal phone and only have one in a drawer to work on.
    • TACIXAT 8y ago
      Yea, I'm thinking of ditching my sim card or living mostly in airplane mode with wifi. I don't want to be part of a system where even the cell phone carriers are selling my real time location.
      • jstarfish 8y ago
        You do realize location tracking via wifi broadcasts (not even AP association!) is a thing, right? http://digitalmortar.com/overview-in-store-tracking-technology/ http://digitalmortar.com/overview-in-store-tracking-technolo... You'll be part of the system as long as you have a phone. (...and as long as you have a face, if projections are to be believed.)
        • TACIXAT 8y ago
          Yea, it's pretty awful. Beyond that you also have to trust that the phone is doing what it says (not broadcasting wifi beacons when wifi is off). A faraday caged messenger bag has been on my list for stuff to make. I've also been trying to think of an acceptable mask to wear in public and I saw someone on my train home with a mirrored face visor. [1] No time soon, but good to keep in mind. License plates are pretty bad too, photography in public is legal, so anyone could set up a dense enough camera network and track you everywhere you go via license plate. The most obvious case would be governments processing the video / images from cameras on traffic lights. 1. https://www.amazon.com/_/dp/B073WB4KSF https://www.amazon.com/_/dp/B073WB4KSF
  • singularity2001 8y ago
    > Either you choose a somewhat open platform, or you choose privacy. That's a terribly wrong dichotomie
    • chc 8y ago
      What are you proposing as the real-world alternative?
    • konaraddio 8y ago
      It's true for smartphones. If you choose privacy AND open source then you're either making sacrifices or doing something "hacky". Most people want to have their mainstream apps available and don't want to learn how to install a new OS on an Android phone.
      • Yetanfou 8y ago
        ...but those who do get more privacy than those who try to buy their privacy from Apple. In other words, Apple is an option for those who a) don't want to learn and don't have access to someone who can do the job for them, who b) trust Apple when they say they will guard their privacy and c) can afford to make these choices. By the way, the time when installing an alternative Android distribution on your phone was 'hacky' is past for many devices, several distributions offer OTA updates so it is perfectly possible to run a mostly-open device without ever having to do anything 'hackish'. As to whether an always-on radio beacon transmitting your location to the authorities can ever be seen as a plus in a privacy context remains to be seen of course, that is something which can not be fixed by either AOSP or Apple.
      • david-cako 8y ago
        I.e., you wall yourself into your own garden that you aren't conceivably going to want to maintain and that no one cares to build apps for. iOS and Android are the choices. I say pick your poison. If a new choice comes along, I don't see any reason for the dynamics to be any different. People want high quality well-integrated electronics, and you only get that by being beholden to the manufacturer.
  • floatboth 8y ago
    Any custom Android builds without installing google play services (possibly with microG if you still want some services like push, but with a FOSS client) are a great option. Sure that's niche, not mainstream. But, like, xda-developers is pretty popular. To the point of people making subreddits for making fun of custom ROM users whining about things like VoLTE not working: https://www.reddit.com/r/xdacirclejerk/ https://www.reddit.com/r/xdacirclejerk/
  • AsyncAwait 8y ago
    > Either you choose a somewhat open platform, or you choose privacy.]] Sadly yes, which is why I backed the Librem 5 and hope it pans out, the promise of an open platform that respects your privacy is a really compelling one right now.
  • lucideer 8y ago
    > Either you choose a somewhat open platform, or you choose privacy. One would have thought/hoped that they were tightly coupled. I think this comes down to two things: If we define "polish" as: consistency+predictable UX+aesthetics 1. openness involves interoperability, and polish is more expensive to achieve when interoperability is a requirement 2. the primary market for polish tends to value exclusivity, which—while not entirely contradictory to openness—tends towards non-openness The combination of these two means that when you focus on polish you end up with a product line that is likely to be non-open. The fact that the primary market for polish also tends to be economically comfortable also conveniently leads to margins that allow for privacy, but I think this is just a happy accident. It's my belief that if we want a private + open platform we need to: - Accept very large sacrifices* in polish because doing both is only economically viable when catering to a market that doesn't want/need openness - Choose a different economic model where resources are available to do both simultaneously. * Also worth noting that sacrificing quality and/or UX can lead to less privacy given that privacy depends on security and security depends on both quality, and also on UX to prevent social attacks.
    • ISL 8y ago
      I'd argue that the GNU/Unix text interface is open, interoperable, and highly polished. The key ingredient is time. Modern windowing systems are also very similar. A Windows 3.1 or early MacOS user would have no trouble using a computer today. Touch and phone interfaces will get there, too, as both software and culture evolve together. I can't wait for, and would love to support, the Debian of phone architectures. In past HN threads, it has been suggested to me that the real blocker for a good open phone OS is at the hardware/kernel level. That was the state of the hardware environment in the late nineties and early 2000s. Give it time, effort, and support, and a great and open OS will emerge.
      • danieldk 8y ago
        I can't wait for, and would love to support, the Debian of phone architectures. In past HN threads, it has been suggested to me that the real blocker for a good open phone OS is at the hardware/kernel level. That was the state of the hardware environment in the late nineties and early 2000s. I would like to be that optimistic, but I am not. The PC has always been a fundamentally open platform and hardware has been supported by many OSes for a long time. When I was young, we would run MS-DOS, DR-DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.x (which was strictly spoken not an OS). After 1994 I also ran Linux and BSD and I never had any real problems hardware-wise. There was a difficult time around the turn of the century with WinModems and printers that only supported Windows. But that was more of a temporary regression.
  • taurath 8y ago
    > Though I think apples "pro privacy" stance is likely just a happy accident I tend to agree. Don’t underestimate the lure of ad money, even to a company as large as Apple. They realize the second you start taking ad money your customers are no longer your customers, but your product.
    • riphay 8y ago
      I think his point about the "happy accident" is that iAds failed and that's part of why Apple is now "pro privacy."
      • nemothekid 8y ago
        This seems backwards though. iAds failed because Apple was pro-privacy - iAds targeting features essentially didn't exist because they didn't collect any data.
    • Scriptor 8y ago
      Yep, the saying is generally that if you don't pay for something, you're the product. But I've noticed that more and more, even when you do pay for something there's a good chance your data will still get sold.
      • reaperducer 8y ago
        Yep. See also: Every credit card transaction you make.
  • Svoka 8y ago
    I think it's a strong selling point they repeat for last 3 years on every chance they get. Like how everything is done on device, encryption, nothing is stored on cloud and so on.
  • rsync 8y ago
    "As it is today I can not buy a phone without having a deep bottomless disdain for it." I feel the same way, but I don't feel negatively about it. I have an iPhone and I treat it like a hostile/suspect device and that is working quite well for me. Apple has no idea who I am - I have never even typed my own name into the phone. Apple doesn't even know my phone number as my "real" phone number is one I control and forward to the burner SIM (straighttalk) that is in the phone. My actual phone provider (twilio) doesn't know who I am. Straighttalk doesn't know who I am - they got an assumed name and email address. Same for the very, very few apps that I use.[1] So unless Apple decides to acquire twilio and whatever verizon MVNO I am using this quarter and my credit card issuer, all they've got is Fakey McFakefake. None of this was difficult, aside from building my own carrier inside twilio, but that was fun. [1] Remember: VISA/MC do not verify names on purchases. The user interface strongly suggests that they do, but they do not - if you correctly enter your number/expiry/CVV/zipcode/etc., you can put in any old name you want. There is really no reason for any app to know your real name.
  • solatic 8y ago
    > Either you choose a somewhat open platform, or you choose privacy Those who would give up essential Openness, to purchase a little temporary Privacy, deserve neither Openness nor Privacy. -Benjamin Franklin
• jaegerpicker 8y ago
  I wish Privacy was a bigger deal to people I knew. Apple, despite it's faults, is doing really incredible work at raising the bar for privacy. I know so many technical folks who just shrug when privacy comes up. It's amazing to me that people can just seem to not care. I know that awareness is rising but so many people are willing to trade a little money for something they can never reclaim. It seem so short sighted.
  • Gorbzel 8y ago
    > I know so many technical folks who just shrug when privacy comes up. Or as many in this thread do, preach complicated (and often broken in practice) processes and tooling that might theoretically protect ones data, but require Stallman's PC levels of configuration and not actually get anything done while Apple's UX does. The fact that (for the moment) the top comments are all software engineers giving up and advocating for dumbphones is a laughable abdication of responsibility/competence/design.
  • cortesoft 8y ago
    Well, why should they care? I hear so many hypotheticals about why the privacy invasion is bad, but I have heard very few people give real examples of actual harm. Most people aren't going to care about things until it effects them in some way.
    • nyolfen 8y ago
      look at china’s social credit system
      • astura 8y ago
        Can you explain China's social credit system? This is the first I've heard of it.
        • nyolfen 8y ago
          the state tracks your economic activity and personal behavior and habits and uses them to calculate something akin to a credit score, but which is used to restrict civil rights (travel, education opportunities, etc) if you are perceived as unreliable. > From the program, the Chinese SCS will be fully implemented starting in 2020 and will be made mandatory for every citizen. Once implemented, every citizen will be rewarded, or punished, on the basis of their behavior. Some types of punishments can be: flight ban, exclusion from private schools, slow internet connection, exclusion from high prestige work, exclusion from hotel, registration on a public blacklist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Credit_System
• aphextron 8y ago
  The whole “low power mode” debacle was such a perfect example of this. Android permissions management is an insecure disaster. It’s something that would have been physically impossible to do on iOS.
  • pjmlp 8y ago
    Sure, Apple just slows down the whole OS instead.
    • woah 8y ago
      They decided that battery life was more important than performance to most people. I suspect they are right about this.
      • suprfnk 8y ago
        It wasn't battery life, it was stability. The day Apple brought out the feature toggle for you to choose whether you wanted to throttle your device or not, I turned the throttling off. The phone was as fast as when I got it again. That same day the phone crashed, a first in a long time, because apparently the power draw was too high for the battery. Imagine if, instead of throttling, they had phones crashing left and right. I think throttling was the right choice, but they could have been more transparent about it.
        • chooseaname 8y ago
          They could have chosen to better match the battery with the power needs of the phone. But, they chose form over function instead.
          • macintux 8y ago
            Batteries get old. I'm not sure what Apple can do about that.
            • 8y ago
• idrios 8y ago
  I'm glad privacy is a valued feature and wish it were the norm. But more importantly, I come to HN to learn news or tools for programming. Less of this sponsored content and more "Show HN: Here's how I used computer vision to make a robot throw spoons only and specifically at my roommate, Tom."
  • woah 8y ago
    There’s a whole show hn tab
  • octosphere 8y ago
    > I come to HN to learn news or tools for programming. Less of this sponsored content How is it sponsored? HN is not just about programming, but if it's programming you need there are communities like Lobsters[1] which are heavily biased towards programming. Privacy issues are always going to crop up in tech, and especially now more than ever with IoT devices and the proliferation of smartphones. [1] https://lobste.rs/ https://lobste.rs/
    • exodust 8y ago
      But this article is not about privacy issues. It's about "how fantabulous and oh-so worth the higher price, Apple products really are".
      • ceejayoz 8y ago
        "Privacy is worth a price premium" is "about privacy issues", isn't it?
        • exodust 8y ago
          Nope. It's about a price premium being worth it when that price is connected to an Apple product.
          • ceejayoz 8y ago
• acangiano 8y ago
  I'm switching back to iPhone as soon as the new ones come out in part because of their pro-privacy stance.
  • toasterlovin 8y ago
    They're out. Order away!!! Edit: I guess maybe not in your country yet.
    • acangiano 8y ago
      I'm in Canada so it's available for pre-order. :)
• dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago
  The problem here now we have a choice between a bit open phones tracking all your activities and a more closed platform that values privacy more. That's very far from ideal and a new player could bring a lot of fresh air here.
• zahrc 8y ago
  At the start of my career (when I haven't been earning that much money) Android phones were easier to access, because they were cheaper. At first it baffled my mind at which scale Google is able to provide services for free, but the more experience I personally gained, the more I realised at which cost, my privacy. Answers to my questions why apple products are way more expensive, even compared to devices with similar features and hardware specs, remained pretty superficial "it's that way" or "apple is just better" weren't obviously satisfying. Blinded by my own conclusion that apple products just sell because of apple fanboyism I remained with google. Now, in the year of 2018 were everyone is interested in your data im still pretty wishy-washy of getting an iPhone but recent news drive me towards it. But in the end it might be a decision between pest or cholera.
  • mercutio2 8y ago
    The total cost of ownership for Apple products is, for some calculations, less than other products. It obviously depends a lot on how much you care about software updates, how gently you treat your device, etc. But if you’re the sort of person who buys a new phone every two years and sells your old phone, the resale value of the old phone tends to be high enough that the costs look about the same as reasonably comparable domestically available devices. If you’re buying your phone straight from China, or don’t care much about high-end phone features, your mileage may vary.
• jmfayard 8y ago
  Hypothesis: Apple's best product is now privacy. Testing the hypothesis: if that was true that all those new iPhone do not matter that much, Wall Street analysts would take a hard look at what is the gross margin of the Apple's new best product (privacy) and Apple stock price would take a serious hit. Looking at the evidence: AAC stock price is super high Alternative hypothesis: some people will buy Apple products for tribal reasons, no matter what the quality over price ratio is, and find a rationalization after the fact to justify it.
  • sjwright 8y ago
    Best product ≠ most popular product
  • randomsearch 8y ago
    When plenty of smart people are doing something you’re not, there’s often a good reason why. Rather than dismiss it as “tribal” did you buy or borrow an iPhone or ask them why? I’ve used a bunch of Android phones at work and a bunch of iPhones. If you’re a hacker who wants to mess with their phone, want customisation, or don’t have more money, then an Android makes sense. Other than that, buy an iPhone. You’ll spend more time getting things done, more things will “just work”, and it’ll break less often and have fewer bugs. The design is great, the aesthetics of the X are wonderful. And then there’s privacy. Apple are hammering it because (a) Tim Cook sees it as a priority, for rather obvious reasons, and (b) it’s a competitive advantage that Google will never be able to counter unless they stop basing their business on adverts. Good. Let’s hope they hammer it more and more and force google to change. Android in its current spyware form is not a good thing.
    • jmfayard 8y ago
      Well obviously there are a lot of smart people using iPhones and even more smart people using Android phones. Anyway in my opinion the biggest problem of smartphones by far is that we use them too much and mindlessly. The brand of the smartphone is mostly irrelevant, it's using it smartly that counts
• eveningcoffee 8y ago
  ... and deleting your movies. I am not sure we can trust them.
  • vesak 8y ago
    Deleting the movies the don't have the rights to distribute anymore? How could they legally do that?
• kodablah 8y ago
  Unless you're Chinese or expect Apple to be clear and transparent about their privacy principles when forced to go against them. Apple's best product is the pass given to them by the media.
  • clay_the_ripper 8y ago
    Apple is still a profit seeking corporation. Given that they could be like google and mine you for every cent, but don’t, is a pretty big tick in their column. Aim for progress, not perfection.
    • fucking_tragedy 8y ago
      It's less of a big tick, and more of a big question mark, where the question is "how, or when, are they going to exploit this massive untapped resource they're sitting on?"
  • ElBarto 8y ago
    China is now Apple's largest market for iPhones. Proof that iPhones do not hinder the Chinese government one bit.
  • jaegerpicker 8y ago
    If Apple wants to sell in China they have to play ball with the Chinese government, I don't like it but I'm not sure I can blame Apple for it.
• exodust 8y ago
  > "...we live in a commercial surveillance state. Well, unless you use Apple’s products." The cringe train is arriving at the station. > "When you pay that extra money for an Apple product, you’re not just buying better industrial design or more advanced underlying tech–you’re buying the right to keep more information about yourself to yourself." All aboard the cringe train. This article could have been written by a bot, instructed to talk favorably about Apple and privacy. Tech journos are funny when they expose their brand crushes.
  • on_and_off 8y ago
    I work on a mobile app .. we probably have hundreds (maybe thounds?) of tracking tags for everything you can do in the app. We have the exact same tracking on iOS and Android
    • Gorbzel 8y ago
      Name the app.
      • singularity2001 8y ago
        Regexp "[a-z]*" Facebook
      • on_and_off 8y ago
        Honestly, that's pretty much any app I have ever worked on. The mobile industry has moved long ago to a model where the app is a service and analysts look at user data to determine how the app is used.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • randomsearch 8y ago
      Cool. If you let us know the app I won’t install it. If you’re invasively tracking users, you should stop doing so.
• fady 8y ago
  The author makes a few good points. Let's not forget though that Android OS still is waaaay more customize-able, and can be made more secure than iOS. Passcode on boot? Yes. I can choose what I want on my phone. I can choose to root my phone, just like a computer, with android, I can have full control of everything. Apps, defaults, kernel, etc. Now, having said all that, for the average grandma I would also recommend an iPhone. Android OS/play store/xda is still the wild west, and you can be compromised easier, if you don't know what you're doing.
  • TracePearson 8y ago
    Making android more secure than iOS is out of reach for the vast majority of people. Most android devices sold don't even get regular security updates.
• runjake 8y ago
  Some things to keep in mind: - Once upon a time, we all rallied around Google and it's "Don't be evil" mantra and Google seemed privacy-focused. Then that went away. - Apple marketing is currently hyping privacy, but they still collect a staggering amount of telemetry from devices. They still hold a lot of our data that is not encrypted at rest. Some day, their touted stance on privacy will change.
  • denzil_correa 8y ago
    > but they still collect a staggering amount of telemetry from devices. They still hold a lot of our data that is not encrypted at rest. Here's one data point which says otherwise [0]. > As insightful as it was, Apple's treasure trove of my personal data is a drop in the ocean to what social networks or search giants have on me [0] https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-request/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-data-collection-stored-r...
  • amatecha 8y ago
    Apple walks the walk, Google talked the talk. That simple.
    • runjake 8y ago
      Back in the day, Google walked the walk, too. Until they stopped.
• tannhaeuser 8y ago
  Apple could market their pro-privacy stance more aggressively, or at all. As it is, they could change it at any time. For example, if market conditions are changing, selling access to Apple's valuable user base should be extremely tempting for compensation. If OTOH they emphasize their privacy stance with all their marketing prowess, this certainly will make mainstream consumers consider "privacy" a value in itself.
  • singularity2001 8y ago
    They probably can't market their pro-privacy stance more aggressively, because otherwise people would call them liars when the next Snowden appears.
  • toasterlovin 8y ago
    FWIW, they highlight privacy as a feature wherever applicable during their live events.
• neya 8y ago
  Sorry, iOS is a closed source OS and nobody can verify what's exactly happening under the hood, this article is shallow and unverifiable. I disagree that Apple's product is privacy without being able to verify that there isn't some code that's processing my personal info. Nobody here can prove or disprove it without access to the source code.
  • jaegerpicker 8y ago
    A huge portion of iOS/macOS is open source (nearly as much as Android) and anyone can verify what it's doing. Darwin is the kernel and underlying libraries. It's heavily based on FreeBSD and is available to download and read.
    • decebalus1 8y ago
      That means absolutely NOTHING in this context. I can base my product on some Linux distro and add just about the right tracking libraries. It is closed source proprietary software, period. Also, this [1]. They definitely do have tracking. Please point me to the source code for this. [1] https://techcrunch.com/2013/06/17/apple-nsa/ https://techcrunch.com/2013/06/17/apple-nsa/
    • floatboth 8y ago
      > nearly as much as Android nah. AOSP is actually a full OS. All the GUI stuff and whatnot is open source. Apple only publishes the kernel sometimes. Not nearly as much. > heavily based on FreeBSD Not that heavily. There is a mix of Mach and various BSDs in there, but also a lot, a looooot of custom Apple weirdness on top.
  • bhj 8y ago
    Reading the source code is not the only way to determine software's behavior, and few can read every line of every piece of software we run anyway.
  • jamesgeck0 8y ago
    What about access to network traffic?
• kjullien 8y ago
  Ha. I strongly disagree, for many reasons. The main one being that they have such terrible software devs (sorry but lately every Apple release was a fiasco) that they couldn't possibly have a "safe" and "private" environment, not intentionally obviously, but they keep showing their lack of concern and involvement time after time.
  • toasterlovin 8y ago
    FWIW, they recently deployed a new filesystem to 1 billion devices with a software update. I'm pretty sure that qualifies them as a competent engineering organization.
    • kjullien 8y ago
      So in your opinion APFS ins't a failure that barely worked for about half a year after it's public release ? Caused problems for almost every software where a patch was needed by the devs (namely docker, sure you could find more examples). I actually had to reformat my drive because Disk Util.app on a APFS formatted drive could not handle bootcamp correctly on release and it foobared my entire drive. To their credit they get it right when you give them some months and a userbase of millions of people. I simply wish they did all that before they actually publicly release their latest botch and enable it by default on every device.
      • toasterlovin 8y ago
        Believe me, if APFS was a huge disaster, it never woulda left the front page of this website. Instead it was all griping about RAM and keyboards on the MacBook Pro.
• shiado 8y ago
  Apple was added to PRISM in 2012 and we have no reason to believe the programs they have been required to cooperate in have been dismantled, if anything we should assume they have been strengthened.
  • singularity2001 8y ago
    Yes, people must not forget this! iPhone is certainly not a private device, just an order of magnitude less 'chatty' than google.
  • richliss 8y ago
    This is true but let's face it if the 5 Eyes want to spy on you then you have massive problems - one person trying to defend against the state is an absolute fantasy. It's Google/Facebook/OnePlus/Samsung spying on me for commercial gain that I can do something about.
    • lostlogin 8y ago
      New Zealand is one of the 5 eyes, so you can pretty much ignore our capabilities. Unfortunately the other eyes make up for that, and then some.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • fucking_tragedy 8y ago
      The surveillance infrastructure is there for use by intelligence agencies, but that doesn't mean that they have exclusive access. If you break message encryption for the government, the incentive to mine or sell that data still exists for a profit-driven entity.
  • lawnchair_larry 8y ago
    The problem with this is you (and most people) have no idea what PRISM actually is. It’s not what you think, but unfortunately the ham-fisted government doesn’t understand that is why they need transparency here. Unfortunately, they believe that discussing the nature of PRISM will cause terrorists who plot attacks over Google Hangouts (for example) to go dark, and that is the one and only priority that they have.
• izietto 8y ago
  What about using Tor browser? I think it's more important than the points listed in the article
• amatecha 8y ago
  In terms of privacy, Apple seems so far ahead of the industry it's practically shocking. I paid the invoice from Namecheap for a domain renewal last night and when downloading the receipt, I noticed a network call to Facebook[dot]com. Turns out it was hitting some telemetry API and logging my order ID, session token, transaction ID, and other stuff like my screen resolution and who knows what else. Like... what?
• amatecha 8y ago
  If you're curious about the reality of what actual privacy and/or security you are offered by Apple's products, you might be interested in Apple's guidelines for law enforcement requests. There's lots of info at https://www.apple.com/ca/privacy/government-information-requests/ https://www.apple.com/ca/privacy/government-information-requ... and there are two PDFs at the bottom outlining their ability to provide user data in different situations. They also summarize the security of iCloud services, delineated by "in transit" and "on server", here: https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202303 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/HT202303 I wanted to actually call out one important detail in the latter link above: "iCloud secures your information by encrypting it when it's in transit, storing it in iCloud in an encrypted format, and using secure tokens for authentication. For certain sensitive information, Apple uses end-to-end encryption. This means that only you can access your information, and only on devices where you’re signed into iCloud. No one else, not even Apple, can access end-to-end encrypted information." So, we can discern that anything you store on iCloud that isn't using end-to-end encryption can be accessed by Apple. This includes (but is not limited to) Contacts, Photos, Notes, device Backups, and everything you're storing on iCloud Drive.
  • singularity2001 8y ago
    Or set up a proxy server and count the thousands of https calls home (per minute). At least on mac startup.
  • airstrike 8y ago
    Can't device backups be password encrypted?
    • amatecha 8y ago
      Yeah, they can indeed. However, device backups are separate from storing your Photos, Contacts, etc. in iCloud. :)
  • kmano8 8y ago
    I started using cryptomator (https://cryptomator.org/ https://cryptomator.org/) to encrypt iCloud files client-side. Has cross-platform apps, and works with Touch Id, so it doesn't come with the hassle of copying in a decryption key every time you need to access files.
• godelski 8y ago
  The data they link to is pretty interesting[0]. In [1] there is an interesting chart. On page 578 (next page has the chart the article refers to, this is the table for it) it shows that from 1980-2014 the top 0.001%'s post-tax income growth grew 616%, the top 1%'s grew 194%, top 10%'s 113%, and the middle 40% grew 49% (full population grew 61%). They also compare this to the growth from 1946-1980, where the growth was more evenly spread out. The top 10% had growth rates that were multiples of their pre 1980 growth rates, while everyone below the 10% had fractions. [0] http://gabriel-zucman.eu/usdina/ http://gabriel-zucman.eu/usdina/ [1] http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/PSZ2018QJE.pdf http://gabriel-zucman.eu/files/PSZ2018QJE.pdf
• HiHelloBolke 8y ago
  Moreover it's interesting to see how Apple is marketing durability with new iPhones... some of this is a byproduct of their environment strategy, i.e to reuse parts and thus generate less waste and perhaps is economically sound in the long run. But as a consumer, when you are spending that much money, you are going to decide on durability rather than how environmentally friendly it is - although for apple both mean same thing. When the market is already saturated with smartphones, the new features and technology in each new release have become incremental. Also it's easier to do much more with the software. Adding more hardware in a already complex, miniaturized device is difficult and may take more than the 2 year cycle...
• richliss 8y ago
  I'd switched to a OnePlus a few years ago and was delighted by the performance/cost. In the last few years the combined privacy invasion from: 1. Google at the very heart of Android (and even Cyanogen/LineageOS with DNS, Google Play Services etc.) and everything I do on the phone. 2. OnePlus with sending data and telemetry back to China and being caught out multiple times after saying they respect the user. 3. Facebook with asking for/getting insane levels of permissions from Android for their apps. Has made me realise that Apple are the only option for anyone who cares about privacy and wants some simplicity. Sure I'd love for the ello (/e/) project to eventually take off and provide a real solution but in the meantime and for now Apple aren't showing any signs of wanting to (or needing to) exploit/sell my personal data. I'm degooglifying as much as possible and my tech friends are too after the recent scandals. Google's a company we will look back on in 50 years as being a blight on freedom.
  • beefield 8y ago
    > Facebook with asking for/getting insane levels of permissions from Android for their apps. Why then use the app in the first place? I mean, the mobile sites of fb are pretty much functional to me. (Admittably, I am happy to have no notifications on my phone outside sms and calls)
    • shmageggy 8y ago
      They've been progressively gimping the mobile site for a while. Now you can't use messenger from the mobile site, for zero good reason as far as I can tell. They just want to force people into using the app where they can harvest more data.
      • slow_donkey 8y ago
        I regularly use the mobile site messenger - you have to request a desktop site with m.facebook and the overlay won't show. I suspect it'd be trivial to remove the overlay with CSS.
      • sixstringtheory 8y ago
• decebalus1 8y ago
  Sorry, but I don't buy it. I believe this is just effective marketing which is exploiting the current Facebook, Google, Microsoft privacy discussions. Apple doesn't care about privacy, it cares about money and will continue playing this record from now on. The main reason why they did not go on the user data gathering/selling is mainly incompetence. They were just so far back in terms of user tracking that they just went 'fuck it, we'll consider this a feature now'. Also, let's not forget they are part of PRISM (which they lied about). Just wait for iphones to start declining in sales (and they will) and have the privacy talk again.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    > Apple doesn't care about privacy, it cares about money and will continue playing this record from now on. But it seems like people are willing to pay a premium for privacy. So why can't Apple care about both?
    • fucking_tragedy 8y ago
      There's a lot of money to be made by both selling a premium product and selling data. Pandering to the security-minded doesn't scale well.
  • unethical_ban 8y ago
    I don't "trust" Apple, but they have been hyping security and privacy as a competitive advantage for several years now. Their business model is selling hardware and support, not in advertising and data.
    • decebalus1 8y ago
      > Their business model is selling hardware and support, not in advertising and data. For now, let's talk again in a couple of years.. https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-looks-to-expand-advertising-business-with-new-network-for-apps-1527869990 https://www.wsj.com/articles/apple-looks-to-expand-advertisi...
• Illniyar 8y ago
  Is it though? Is there any reason to believe that a significant amount of people buy Apple products because they believe it to be more private? My impression is that the vast majority of users don't care about privacy - no matter how much privacy apple adds to their product, it's becomes moot the moment you are active from facebook, or use google products - which practically everyone does.
• alexanderdmitri 8y ago
  I know with Android that companies like Verizon install a "super cookie" that cannot be removed without rooting the device. Does anyone know if this is the case with iOS as well?
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    Many Android phones come preloaded with carrier software, yes, and this isn't the case on iPhone. But I'm not sure if this is the "super cookie" you're talking about.
  • ben1040 8y ago
    The Verizon "supercookie" is an HTTP header they add to your traffic. They do it via deep packet inspection, not anything on the device, and it affects iOS as well. After they got caught doing this they added the option to opt out at the account level. https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/unique-identifier-header-faqs/ https://www.verizonwireless.com/support/unique-identifier-he...
• duxup 8y ago
  I'm tempted to move from Android to an Apple phone partly for that reason. I'm tired of the endless android situations where an app seems to be able to do whatever regardless of permissions... and permissions can't really be managed anyway. I also don't belive Google will ever get a handle on those permissions / privacy, they just don't care to. It doesn't help that google killed the nexus line and now we have pixels that are premium priced anyway so I may as well consider Apple where I didn't before. The camera is also a big deal to me so a lot of the "hey it's not a pixel but" options just don't do it for me.
  • taurath 8y ago
    The ability to install an ad blocker natively on the default browser is the reason I switched, and cannot stand androids anymore (after 5 android phones previously).
    • lern_too_spel 8y ago
      You can install system-wide adblockers on Android. This is not possible with iOS without running a separate proxy server like pi-hole.
      • taurath 8y ago
        If you jailbreak it iirc though
        • lern_too_spel 8y ago
          No "jailbreak" required on Android. Just implement the VpnService API. https://github.com/blokadaorg/blokada/blob/master/app/src/main/kotlin/tunnel/ATunnelService.kt https://github.com/blokadaorg/blokada/blob/master/app/src/ma...
          • saagarjha 8y ago
            You can do this on iOS as well, but not for App Store apps.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• jccalhoun 8y ago
  I have a hard time getting worked up about getting tracked online. I'm looking at Facebook's suggested groups right now. I've been on facebook since around 2013. The groups they try to suggest to me are: one for a game I play that I used facebook to log into. Makes sense. 1st edition advanced Dungeons and Dragons. I haven't mentioned Dungeons and dragons and haven't played it since the mid 1980s Grindr aesthetics. I am hetero so I'm not sure what this is. Indy Nostalgia. I live in Indiana so I guess that is somewhat relevant. Hearthstone Australia. I live in Indiana and I don't play Hearthstone. A few days ago I was talking about this with a friend and looked and facebook had suggested I join a group for progressive Asian-American Christians. I am not Asian-American or a Christian. If this is the best they can do with 15 years worth of data then I don't think I have too much to worry about.
  • enraged_camel 8y ago
    It's worth noting that using adblockers and similar gizmos will significantly limit the amount of data these companies capture about you, and will therefore drastically reduce the relevance of what they show you. However, the overwhelming majority of Internet users don't use blockers, and are tracked wherever they go. Not just on the Internet, but in many places in real life too.
  • sampo 8y ago
    I buy running shoes from Amazon. The next 4 weeks Facebook and Reddit and random websites show me nothing but ads for running shoes. I already have my shoes, don't need another pair, thank you. Am I a minority, not being a serial shoe shopper? Or is whatever machine learning those companies are running really that simplistic?
    • rifung 8y ago
      I've had this happen to me many times before. My assumption was always that they can see that you looked for running shoes but not that you bought them.
    • samatman 8y ago
      The shoe market has 'whales' who spend a double-digit percentage of a median income on shoes every year. That said, no, it's really that simplistic. Amazon will do the same thing for vacuum cleaners, and vacuum cleaner whales do not exist, as far as I know.
• maxxxxx 8y ago
  Their product is privacy until it isn't. As long as we only have dominant platforms dominated by huge companies we are at risk. I hope there will something Linux for phones that is a real alternative.
• paulcarroty 8y ago
  Apple delete apps which send telemetry to Chinese servers (2-3 days old news), Google don't care. So, Android devices sucks with privacy and cheap space to farming to other companies. Heard some Chinese companies sell phones with ad injections in default apps.
  • philipov 8y ago
    Yeah, like Lenovo which sells laptops with preinstalled adware and MitM attacks.
    • joering2 8y ago
      Good point but they still make best laptops IMHO. I "eat" so many Toshibas, Sonys, Acers, even two Macs with Windows 7 on it... The nice thing is they still give you drivers even to Windows 7. When I get new Lenovo laptop, I immediately throw away their drive, put a bigger one and install Windows 7 from scratch.
      • danieldk 8y ago
        When I get new Lenovo laptop, I immediately throw away their drive, put a bigger one and install Windows 7 from scratch. At least for some time, this was not good enough. The shipped crap/spyware in the firmware and exploited Windows Platform Binary Table to inject their spyware into freshly installed Windows. So, even a clean disk and an official Windows CD didn't evade the spyware: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nas... Luckily, desktop Linux/BSD is probably too obscure to be on their radar.
        • minkiu 8y ago
          It is on their radar: https://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2018/08/06/please-welcome-lenovo-to-the-lvfs/ https://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2018/08/06/please-welcome-le...
        • spacehome 8y ago
• taurath 8y ago
  All companies that are dependent on ad money have cognitive dissonence, in that most “care” about their users but the users are not their customer anymore. They eventually revert to only providing enough value to keep users, or try to lock in users via monopolies or legal means so they can spend resources on ad technology or enablers of them.
• whyagaindavid 8y ago
  Sadly, I do know that some HN-hackers may have qualms about money and comparison but the title could be extended to have "... for the rich". It is increasingly a bubble for the rich to super-elite not necessarily for the average citizen. http://time.com/money/4346766/mark-zuckerberg-houses/ http://time.com/money/4346766/mark-zuckerberg-houses/
  • sebular 8y ago
    Not that I see the logic in comparing the cost of an iPhone to Mark Zuckerberg buying buffer properties, but the cheapest new iPhone you can buy on apple.com is the iPhone 7 for $449, and that's without doing any price hunting. It's an entirely functional phone that has all of the same privacy features as any other iPhone, and it offers similar performance to other phones at that price. Furthermore, there are plenty of people who live near the poverty line that will be buying an iPhone XS Max this year. They deserve privacy just as much as anyone else, and if they're deciding between spending a disproportional amount of their income on an iPhone or the latest Galaxy Note, the correct advice in terms of privacy would still be "buy an iPhone."
    • saagarjha 8y ago
      And I'm sure the $349 iPhone SE is still being sold until stock for that runs out.
• morsma 8y ago
  As a very long time Android user (since HTC Hero), I've recently switched to the IPhone for the exact same reason. I was a big fan back then, but lately I'm starting to be put off by Google, for instance the late reveal of mettling in the US election etc. At least you gotta give Google for partially admitting it by removing the "Don't be evil" motto back in 2015. It's only MS, Apple or open source here from now on...
• amelius 8y ago
  I just wish the EU would step in and demand that all hardware is actually owned by the person who buys it, so we didn't have to root devices in order to get some privacy. Apple hardware is nice, but also expensive. Further, a lack of options is a bad thing. Apple is now basically monopolist in the space of privacy-respecting smartphones.
• colechristensen 8y ago
  The thing holding me back from iPhone is the inability to buy content from non-apple sources.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    You mention "content", which presumably includes digital media–all of which you can totally buy anywhere else and load on your phone, or use an app to purchase on-device. The only thing you can't get from a non-Apple source is software (well, normally, that is. You can still sign apps yourself and sideload them on your device).
    • Canada 8y ago
      If you pay Apple a hundred bucks a year for the privilege and accept the fact that you can only receive push messages from your own server.
      • saagarjha 8y ago
        > If you pay Apple a hundred bucks a year for the privilege You can do this with a free account, just with some restrictions on what types of API you can use.
        • felix_nagaand 8y ago
          Pretty sure you also need to resign the app fairly frequently which is a nonstarter for many.
    • colechristensen 8y ago
      >use an app to purchase on-device That's the issue. You can't. Can I buy an audiobook on the Audible app? No. Can I buy a book/movie/show/etc on any Google Play app? No. Am I willing to buy on websites or using a laptop or different advice instead of my phone because Apple? No.
      • 8y ago
• gmiller123456 8y ago
  Sorry to be so negative, but this is just BS. Short of a legally binding statement from Apple stating exactly what information they collect and who they sell it to, then you're just assuming they aren't collecting and selling your data. Of course their terms of service explicitly give them permissions to collect any information they want and sell it to anyone they want, which should be a big clue that they're doing it. This article is solely about Apple making it harder for 3rd party apps and websites to track you. That's certainly a good thing, but the downside is that it just makes the data Apple has (or can have) far more valuable, which only increases the likelihood that they're collecting and selling a lot of data. This article is just one guy speculating about his thoughts, and he was possibly paid to do it by Apple. If Apple wants to make privacy a selling point for their products, they would no doubt seize the opportunity to do so very loudly. And, if it's not Apple saying it, then it's not legally binding.
  • wilg 8y ago
    > If Apple wants to make privacy a selling point for their products, they would no doubt seize the opportunity to do so very loudly. They have definitely been doing this over the past four or five years and certainly claim they aren't selling your data: https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/
    • gmiller123456 8y ago
      That just raises the suspicion for me. That website is a far cry from "We don't collect your data, we don't sell any information about you". Instead, the closest they get is with the statement below: "Whether you’re taking a photo, asking Siri a question, or getting directions, you can do it knowing that Apple doesn’t gather your personal information to sell to advertisers or other organizations." That only applies to two things, taking a photo and asking Siri a question. It does not prohibit them from collecting the data for their own use. And does not prohibit them from selling analysis of that data.
      • sharkjacobs 8y ago
• ataturk 8y ago
  Apple will blow it. The allure of statism is far too great for these button-down corporate assholes.
• cheeseomlit 8y ago
  I don't buy it, they're a provider for the PRISM program. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/media/File:Prism-slide-8.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)#/... They put on a big show about unlocking a phone for the FBI and all that, but I'm inclined to think it's all just theater to give people a false sense of security
• chad_strategic 8y ago
  I'm sorry, but I don't even have to read this article, to know this is nothing more than propaganda. Full Disclosure: I work at the NSA
• fatjokes 8y ago
  I feel like people are blaming the tech companies for their own flaws. As Homer Simpson once said: "It's easy to blame ourselves, but it's even easier to blame Flanders." The targeted ads and (fake or not) news are not what's "threatening democracy". It's an ignorant populace that doesn't know how to evaluate credibility of news sources, or open themselves to multiple viewpoints (e.g., you can read Fox News and the NYTimes!) Bad politicians were able to get elected long before the Internet came along. Personally, I love the benefits of Google's ecosystem. It's handy. I use Facebook, but only for Messenger and events. I resist the urge to read the news on my feed. Apple's products are nice but Siri is garbage and I like the cloud.
• aj7 8y ago
  It’s true. And it’s also a risk for Apple.
• elborro 8y ago
  Sadly also Apple collects data on their users. Last year around 300TB a day on what users search for, which apps they use, how many times, where you click and navigate through the OS and in the apps, etc. :(
• vinylkey 8y ago
  Their choices in hardware make it hard for me to switch. Since the new hardware announcements this week I'm scrambling to find a new iPhone SE to switch to from Android. I want privacy, but I also want a small phone with a proper headphone jack.
• kbumsik 8y ago
  Well, only iOS is, not all Apple products. It bothers me a bit that the high security/privacy of iOS is automatically applied to all Apple products in the article. The notorious High Sierra proved more than enough that the macOS engineers develop __zero__ security in mind.
• devy 8y ago
  I agree with the assessment in the article. Having said that, I wonder if it's possible to port iOS to run on Android devices? In other words, how different is Apple's custom designed silicon vs. Qualcom and others ARM design?
• throw2016 8y ago
  Totalitarianism is not built in a day. You don't wake up one day to find yourself in dystopia. At the moment the capabilities are being built in bits and pieces, like the frog being boiled, and once the capabilities are there they will be used and abused. You don't even need imagination to see this, even a basic acquaintance of human nature and history is enough. The current generation of software folks have dropped the ball and sold out completely. There is a feeding frenzy of creepiness, stalking people accompanied with denial, apologism, dilution and posturing. If you are going to question the value of privacy or diminish the danger of surveillance you might as well question democracy and human rights. This is what apologism does, reduces discussion to basic first principles. This is what greed and money does to people, and why regulations and rule of law is required to cement and reiterate the values a society subscribes to.
• satysin 8y ago
  With how Microsoft has ruined Windows and having awful experiences with several Windows based laptops this year (XPS 15, Surface Book 2, ThinkPad X1 Carbon) I decided to switch to a MacBook Pro two months ago when the 2018 models came out. I haven't been this happy using a computer in a long, long time. Yes this MBP cost me about £800 more than an equivalent Dell or Lenovo but damnit it just works so well. There is no frustrating corner cutting like I found on so-called 'premium' laptops from Dell, Lenovo and Microsoft such as panels with backlight bleed, poor audio, wifi issues, etc. It has been so good that today I did something I haven't done in over a decade. I pre-ordered an iPhone Xs Max. I don't have any real functionality issues with Android but I am happy to be getting away from Google. Now I just need to find a reliable alternative to G Suite and I can be Google free!
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• djsolnok 8y ago
  Wow this author is a total idrone. I'm not saying Google is better, in fact some of her points may even be correct. They probably do collect less personal data than an Android device. The question is are you willing to pay in on average at least $200 more for a phone? I'm not that's for sure.
• znutarr 8y ago
  I've been using this app from http://bit.ly/vega_msg http://bit.ly/vega_msg Secure messaging
• znutarr 8y ago
  I've been using this app for safe communications. Http://bit.ly/vega_msg
• geophertz 8y ago
  I wouldn't trust apple for multiple reasons: * because they agree (or at least help) censorship in china it shows that they do not care about the user, they do what is best for them and if that is sharing data with anyone they will do it. It don't understand why apple would help a governments with bad intention in china and not the rest of the world. * secondly if they really want to protect your privacy why don't they open source some parts of their systems and let people build it (compile) themselves. eg: the T2 chip could be a backdoor, who can prove it's not?
• DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  the sad reality in many vulnerable parts of the world is Apple products are financially out of reach
• ggm 8y ago
  Remember folks: the Chinese don't share your personal data with the five-eyes governments. All the western snooping software does. So who do you trust more with your personal data and why?
• saudioger 8y ago
  no it's not, it's iphones you dummy
  • dang 8y ago
    Please don't post unsubstantive comments here.
• bestnameever 8y ago
  OGoogle supposedly removes your personal information when you delete it from their myactivity website. https://www.businessinsider.com/even-if-you-cleared-your-history-google-records-your-search-activity-2018-4 https://www.businessinsider.com/even-if-you-cleared-your-his... I'm guessing a very small percentage of people do so but it's pretty helpful if you care about your privacy.
• miaklesp 8y ago
  What's the point of having the 'fastest processor on the market' if you are completely locked down? - no background tasks, OneDrive experience sucks - file system experience sucks, cannot save file in one app and open in another - no alternative browsers - no apps like Termux, or other emulators It's a joke! What are you going to do with this 'fastest processor'? Make photos of food for Instagram?
  • djrogers 8y ago
    > - no background tasks Completely false - there are many types of background tasks an app can perform. > OneDrive experience sucks Obviously this is subjective, but OneDrive can integrate at the file system level and be treated as a first-party file provider. If MS makes that suck, that’s not on apple. > - file system experience sucks, cannot save file in one app and open in another Also completely false. The Files app/framework includes not only locally created and managed files and iCloud, but also incorporates third party file storage like Dropbox and OneDrive. > - no alternative browsers Also false > - no apps like Termux, or other emulators Plenty of apps to get you on an SSH or serial terminal - Prompt and GetConsole are my gotos, but there are tons. It really sounds like you read a list of half-true iOS complaints from 2010 and regurgitated them here.
    • miaklesp 8y ago
      Can I do the following workflow on iPhone: 1. navigate to a download link in browser, download the file 2. change file extension to zip, and unpack it to a folder 3. open one of the extracted .docx files and open in Word 4. save it as a PDF file 5. go to Mail app and attach the PDF file Is the $1000 phone with the 'fastest processor of the market' capable to do this?
      • fstanis 8y ago
        With like 6 different apps, you can.
• sybhn 8y ago
  As someone once said very eloquently on this forum: Apple is a consumer product company and makes money selling you products, while others (Google, Facebook, etc) are ad platforms companies making money selling you as a product. It's in Apple's best interest to keep your data safe and confidential, unlike other internet giants. When i had to chose a online photos storage provider, the choice was clear, for that very reason.
• srg0 8y ago
  Isn't Apple hosting iCloud on Google infrastructure? Technically if I didn't trust G, I wouldn't trust A either.
• adnan_pirota 8y ago
  Why do you post iSheeps stuff and what's even more put it as first news!!!!
• adnan_pirota 8y ago
  Stop promoting iSheeps pleaaasseeee
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• jacksmith21006 8y ago
  https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy-betrayal-for-chinese-icloud-users/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/03/apple-privacy... Campaign targets Apple over privacy betrayal for Chinese iCloud ... Google instead packed up and left after China government tried to access private Gmail data.
• pyman 8y ago
  The article is very clear: Apple’s business model doesn’t rely on monetizing user data. Google, on the other hand, has a business model built around advertisers. In other words, Apple has a choice when it comes to selling your data, Google doesn’t. I’m not going to talk about Facebook because it’s just a website, like MySpace, and doesn’t sell hardware.
• jaski 8y ago
  I totally agree, now that I'm getting screwed by Redmi. Redmi is spilling ads all over the phone... in the useless but compulsory widgets screen, in the video app, in the gallery, in the messaging app, in the memory cleaner app, in the screenshots app, you name it. It's getting nauseating.