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FBI Mysteriously Closes New Mexico Observatory
- yasp 8y agoLonger article at https://www.alamogordonews.com/story/news/local/2018/09/07/sunspot-observatory-south-cloudcroft-closed-due-security-issue/1227788002/ https://www.alamogordonews.com/story/news/local/2018/09/07/s... Anyone have speculations on what this could be?
- jbob2000 8y agoSince it's the FBI, then it's probably a domestic threat. Given the huge show of force, my guess is armed extremists threatening to take it over? This is pure speculation, but I think this QAnon/whitehouse leaker stuff is driving people mad and in the coming years, we'll see rebel groups forming and doing more of this.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago> my guess is armed extremists threatening to take it over? ... why?
- dvh 8y ago350 pounds (or 10 tons? Actual amount is unknown) of mercury
- SEJeff 8y ago350 pounds of stupid
- yasp 8y agoDo observatories usually have hundreds of pounds of mercury?
- theoctopus 8y agoSome observatories (including this one it seems) use liquid mercury as mirrors: https://sunspot.solar/about/ https://sunspot.solar/about/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_mirror_telescope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_mirror_telescope
- openasocket 8y agoOK, I'll bite: why would extremists want a whole bunch of mercury?
- AnimalMuppet 8y agoIt's a useful ingredient in some explosives.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- LyndsySimon 8y ago... as far as I know, mercury isn't a restricted product and can be shipped to your door. Here's a video of a guy flushing 240# of mercury down a toilet (NOT connected to a sewer or septic system), just to see if it was possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvVaaZ21C44 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvVaaZ21C44 It's not exactly difficult to find industrial users of mercury, and the mercury at Sunspot is in a sealed instrument. I see no reason why the presence of mercury there would be incentive for an "armed group" to attempt to assault and/or hold the observatory.
- amdavidson 8y agoWhy is he not wearing gloves?!
- LyndsySimon 8y agoI'm no expert here, but is metallic mercury that much of a hazard? I thought it was the vapor that was the big risk with handling mercury. Obviously, I'd be sure of that before I handled it :)
- acct1771 8y agoBelieve so. See: mad hatters
- dsnuh 8y agoFor reference, 350 lbs is about 3 gallons of liquid mercury. Mercury is heavy.
- colanderman 8y agoApparently the post office was shut down too [1]. Maybe something dangerous/destructive/sensitive was mailed to/from the observatory? Would explain the feds (since post office is federal) and the seemingly thorough search of the property (crews on towers, etc.). [1] https://www.abqjournal.com/1219922/nm-solar-observatory-closed-authorities-mum.html https://www.abqjournal.com/1219922/nm-solar-observatory-clos...
- wrs 8y agoWhen I look at that article, it’s just a bunch of thick gray lines, as if it’s been completely redacted! Just a bug? Are we being trolled? It’s hilarious, anyway. (Edit: Ah, there’s a survey form that you have to click “skip” on to see the story. Still hilarious.)
- subcosmos 8y agoComplete our marketing survey and be rewarded with a free FOIA!
- fractaleyes 8y agoWhen I was working at GE, we received a suspicious white powder substance in the mail that was treated as Anthrax. The HAZMAT team quarantined the workers in the room with the substance and the whole event was over in a few hours. Mind you, the substance turned out to not be Anthrax, so that could explain the timeline. My only question is why there was no mention from the USPS about that? The only thing we hear from the USPS is that they don't know why they have to evacuate, and were relocated to a city 30 mins out to work the mail there. It's not like the idea of sending a substance like that is new, so why all the secrecy a week later?
- creaghpatr 8y agoIs it possible the observatory is a front for some kind of SIGINT infrastructure? That's only my best guess, would line up with 'security issue' explanation and people walking around with antennas. I'm not educated in that area though.
- mhuffman 8y agoBroken arrow?[1] ... or similar? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_nuclear_incident_terminology#Broken_Arrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_nuclear...
- LyndsySimon 8y agoI've been following this since the tenth, and it's weird for sure. One thing that stands out to me - based on comments from people who live in the area (and who I am confident actually do), the observatory is transitioning from being owned by the federal government to a university. They've gone through a significant staff reduction, and there was basically no one there to tell to leave. Further, while it's been reported that it's "closed to the public", I've seen cellphone video from people who have driven there and walked around. There are no roadblocks, no visible police or security presence... nothing. It's just abandoned. In short, I'm not convinced this is being accurately reported.
- sehugg 8y agoI'm not sure what you're implying. Because there's not a visible security presence, the Alamogordo Daily News is making this up? After law enforcement gets what they need, there's no reason to patrol the property.
- LyndsySimon 8y ago> Because there's not a visible security presence, the Alamogordo Daily News is making this up? Nope. At this point, I believe that this was a fairly orderly shutdown (temporary or permanent) that wasn't communicated very well. The "FBI" and "Blackhawk helicopter" were probably federal employees removing federal property from the observatory's antenna arrays before handing it over to the university. I suppose it's possible that some of that could have been classified, since it's situated within line of sight of a military base where project testing occurs and it's conceivable that they might have used that site to received telemetry, but I don't see any reason to think that it's anything more than a case of poor communication between agencies and a pile-on by people who aren't familiar with the details and who want to see something that isn't there. Note that I was one of those people at first - I gave significant thought to the idea that this was some sort of coverup associated with the coronal mass ejection and the ensuing solar storm that happened right at the same time. As time went on, other solar observatories starting going down and I got much more intensely interested. I took a step back though, and did some more looking around. The other observatory that went down first was in Hawaii, where they were experiencing a tropical storm. I'll keep watching this, but at this point I think it'll just fade away into nothing, as there really is nothing happening there. I will give a nod to one theorist on another forum who suggested that the cryptic communication, lack of a press conference, and the local sheriff denying knowledge of everything is all intended as an opportunity to study how conspiracy theories are formed, investigated, and disseminated in online forums. I hope that's the case, because I want to read that paper.
- paultopia 8y agoALIENS. (But seriously, my guess would be some kind of DoD/security thing? Was someone there doing military research and got hacked? Because that would explain why the FBI would lock it down and not let anyone else in law enforcement go near...)
- TokyoKid 8y agoMy guess, and I haven't seen it posted before, is that a secret space aircraft is going to have it's silhouette visible as it passes between the observatory and the sun. It may also be doing some operation there. There have been accusations and rumours the the US has a state-of-the-art satellite-killer that is uses against Eastern/Communist satellites. It can allegedly move around the support atmosphere and rendezvous with orbiting satellites, then disable them in some way. This is all quite difficult to detect because, well, it's dark up there. But if it happened as the satellite passed between the earth and the sun, it could be visible. Just a guess.
- vorpalhex 8y agoThat observatory is near a couple of bases. They likely want to fly some experimental aircraft and minimize the amount of specialized recording equipment in the area.
- ObsoleteNerd 8y agoWhy would they shut down the Post Office for that? Most plausible theory I've seen so far is that the spying one. Maybe they were posting hard-drives or USB sticks from there with footage of the base testing some new equipment or something.
- LyndsySimon 8y agoWhy wouldn't they? As best I can tell, the housing up there only serves employees at the observatory, which is closed. What point would there be to keeping the post office open?
- ObsoleteNerd 8y agoOh OK, I didn't know that (I'm not in the US, just going off comments online because it's an interesting story).
- fergbrain 8y agoApparently it has “excellent views of Holloman AFB and White Sands Missile Range” (https://reddit.com/r/SpecialAccess/comments/9f91sm/_/e5uy1fd/?context=1 https://reddit.com/r/SpecialAccess/comments/9f91sm/_/e5uy1fd...) . Further down, someone says that someone claims that the Chinese were using the antenna array at the observatory to spy on missile tests at WSMR. If the place was truly low on staff then this theory may not be so far fetched.
- mr_overalls 8y agoThe views of the AFB and missile range are truly excellent. Google Maps panoramic view: https://goo.gl/ckkCQc https://goo.gl/ckkCQc
- MisterTea 8y agoSince it's just about abandoned it's quite possible that foreign agents covertly installed surveillance devices to monitor the nearby bases OR someone noticed something or saw someone trespassing. That would certainly explain that level of activity including a blackhawk.
- RandomNick 8y agoI'm skeptical of that theory. Sunspot is up in the Lincoln National Forest. There are multiple trails and locations that have a great view of White Sands and Holloman AFB, which are located in the basin below. There isn't anything special about the view from Sunspot that I can recall.
- deleted 8y ago
- digitalneal 8y agoWouldn't surprise me if some meth manufactures found the place to be fairly empty and was operating out of one of the buildings. Only to get caught shipping product somewhere and the FBI backtracked it to the observatory.
- tunap 8y agoHeh, this is the most probable explanation yet, and it is being downed? This is a real problem in the US for anyone that hasn't had a meth lab bust in thier local hood, gated community or national/state/muni park.
- cloakandswagger 8y agoThis seems like a stupidly conspicuous location to setup a meth lab unless you assume that not a single person visits the facility for months at a time and no one would notice large plumes of smoke rising from it.
- dsnuh 8y agoTrue, and I don't think it's a meth lab, but using abandoned military buildings does have precedent on drug manufacturing: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/wamego-lsd-missile-silo https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/wamego-lsd-missile-silo
- tunap 8y agoNo disagreement from me. However, we are talking about tweekers & cookers. They tend to be genuinely resourceful, yet not the most intelligent of peoples. It took 2 years to get a blatant lab shut down on my upper middle-class street. Ex-neighbor's ex-engine mate happened to transfer from FD to our local PD precinct & made detective. He was the only reason the rat nest was disturbed.
- yasp 8y agoWould that entail a Blackhawk helicopter and this veil of secrecy?
- 8y ago
- gammateam 8y agoIsn't this a Stephen King movie?
- Rebelgecko 8y agoIt's also reminiscent of a plot point from "Anathem" which came out almost exactly 10 years ago
- strictnein 8y agoThe thousanders are up there?
- joshuaheard 8y agoThe final scene of "Starman" with Jeff Bridges?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- wrs 8y ago>“Nobody would give us any information on what was going on,” House [the sheriff] said, before the phone call cut out and repeated attempts to reach him again were unsuccessful. Seriously? Is this an ARG?
- yebyen 8y agoWhat's an ARG? Huh... TIL: An alternate reality game (ARG) is an interactive networked narrative that uses the real world as a platform and employs transmedia storytelling to deliver a story that may be altered by players' ideas or actions.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- dredmorbius 8y agoIt's difficult to express just how remote these areas are. I've not been to Sunspot, though I've travelled nearby. Cellphone coverage is at best extraordinarily sparse, towns infrequent, and not all those marked on maps have much by way of services. Gorgeous vistas, though. And staggering brushfires.
- dlivingston 8y agoI was raised in Alamogordo (a satellite town to HAFB and directly 'down the hill' from Sunspot) and, while I don't have any information other than what other posters have offered, I can tell you that my entire family is farrr too excited that our tiny little hometown is national news for once Edit: for clarification, HAFB and all of White Sands Missile Range sits on flatlands surrounded by two mountains; the Organ Mountains on the west (close to Las Cruces) and Sunspot Observatory sits on the very edge of the mountain ranges to the east. Spying on HAFB and WSMR from Sunspot is certainly plausible.
- rplst8 8y agoIsn't New Mexico State U there? The Aggies?
- nrdgrl 8y agoI once drove the highway through the white sands missile range, 2 days in a row (tourist). I went through a DHS checkpoint twice where they checked my ID and asked detailed questions about where I was going and why. The second day they wanted to know why I had gone two days in a row. There are (where back then anyway) big barriers they would lower to close a portion of the highway during 'missile' tests. A fascinating place to visit.
- simmers 8y agoLooks like a small sliver of the observatory is blurred on Google Maps. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7882221,-105.8176836,349a,35y,270h,38.83t/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7882221,-105.8176836,349a,35...
- lawlessone 8y agolooks ok to me, loading error?
- notatoad 8y agoi'm seeing the same, it certainly looks like the intentional blurring that google maps does for sensitive things: https://imgur.com/RqjnQTo https://imgur.com/RqjnQTo
- kawfey 8y agoIf you rotate around that blur, it appears to have depth, like it's just above the surface. You can see beneath it at the right angle, revealing the top of the dome.
- ballenf 8y agoMaybe an algorithm thought the spherical dome was a human anatomical feature needing blurring for privacy. The shape of the blur is very strange for anything intentional. Unless the shape itself is extra intentional entropy.
- sdinsn 8y agoNo blurring for me
- thegreatco 8y agoNo blurring on Bing Maps (I know, the horror)
- mturmon 8y agoIn the late 1990s I used imagery (taken on films and later digitized) from the solar observatory at that site ("Sac Peak"). I later visited it for a conference. It's highly remote, and the handful of astronomers there lived in very basic conditions. I seem to remember a house trailer (i.e., a "manufactured home"). Note, Sac Peak is nowhere near the other solar observatory in Kitt Peak, AZ, and it is a daytime observatory as opposed to the much better-provisioned nighttime observatory at nearby Apache Point, NM - where the relatively-new Sloan Digital Sky Survey (SDSS) telescope is. It was a monastic lifestyle on the mountain there, and as the NSF has been backing out of some of its older ground-based observatories in pursuit of newer observing programs like DKIST (the big solar telescope in Hawaii) and LSST, I imagine it has become even more uncomfortable.
- Sharlin 8y ago> Sac Peak [...] is a daytime observatory [...] A nighttime solar observatory would have certain... observational challenges.
- owenversteeg 8y agoHah... I suppose a neutrino detector could count?
- codezero 8y agoCould always study the reflection of solar light: the gegenschein
- psalminen 8y agoI toured Sunspot when I was at Apache Point researching about two years ago. Even at this time, Sunspot seemed fairly run down/on the way out.
- strictnein 8y agoComment on the gizmodo post on this states there's been hazmat suits and possible mercury leakage: https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-it-starts-fbi-suspiciously-locks-down-eva-1829012554 https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-it-starts-fbi-suspiciously-l...
- CWuestefeld 8y agoFrom a liquid mirror, maybe?
- abruzzi 8y agoThe photo in that article is not of the Sunspot Observatory, but of the Apache Point Observatory next door. I wonder if it is just Sunspot or both? I haven’t been up there since spring but I usually visit several times a year, so I’m very curious what’s going on. I may head up to APO this weekend and see if I can get on premesis.
- lamontcg 8y agoMy guess is someone's ex-boyfriend/ex-husband had some OChem background and decided to go a bit ted kaczynski. The FBI got involved due to threats of explosives, they went into his apartment and found real evidence of bomb making. Would also be consistent with the Post Office having been shut down if he was planning on mailing anything. Might also be politically motivated, but I'm going to bet on personal since this observatory was specifically targeted, and not APO (an ex-grad student who feels their academic career was destroyed by someone there would work as well for me). Or something that rhymes with that and is much more mundane than Chinese spies or secret military tests (but of course just exceptional enough to get the FBI involved and not the local cops -- so an actual credible bomb maker and not just someone phoning in a threat).
- lamontcg 8y agoLooks like I was on the right track, it was a "criminal investigation" and: "During this time, we became concerned that a suspect in the investigation potentially posed a threat to the safety of local staff and residents." https://www.space.com/41852-sunspot-solar-observatory-opening-after-criminal-investigation.html https://www.space.com/41852-sunspot-solar-observatory-openin...
- swingline-747 8y agoIt's closed due to UFOs. ;D
- guilhas 8y agoEmergency evacuation drill for a Nuclear/terrorism attack. Theory suggestion.
- wolfpwner 8y agohttps://www.ktsm.com/news/local/el-paso-news/child-pornography-reason-behind-sunspot-observatory-closure-according-to-court-documents/1460386237 https://www.ktsm.com/news/local/el-paso-news/child-pornograp...
- jploh 8y agohttps://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/new-mexico-observatory-child-porn https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/new-mexico...