9 ms·

Seems like linux is the clear choice for now given the corporate behavior of MS and Apple.

by gameswithgo 8y ago

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
Only if you care about these minor annoyances more than the major ones offered by the Linux Desktop.
- remlov 8y ago
  I'd wager there are plenty of Linux Desktop users that feel that the inverse of annoyances are true, including myself.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    Assuredly, but that doesn't mean the opposite perspective isn't a legitimate one.
    - remlov 8y ago
      I agree with you there. For the general population, be it family, grandma, or individuals that tend to operate outside the mindset of the general audience here, the learning curve is going to be a bit steeper if you were to put Ubuntu in front of them. However, every one of their newer releases has made strides in terms of ease of use and stability. Personally I think https://snapcraft.io/ https://snapcraft.io/ lifts a HUGE burden off making popular software available to a non power user who might be new to linux.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
        I couldn't disagree more. Linux is fine for the kind of people who only use computers to consume content, but then again any personal web kiosk (like a phone or tablet) can easily serve that role so it isn't exactly a high bar. The real problem areas are when people who want a personal computer try to color outside the lines of whatever the distro developer intended as a use case ("Why would you want to do that?" is a common and annoying response).
        mcnesium 8y ago
        > "Why would you want to do that?" I don't remember a Linus Torvalds say "you're not supposed to hold it this way" to anyone. Instead, …
        scarface74 8y ago
        Unless you want a stable infrastructure to keep binary drivers compatible with newer versions of Linux.... He would probably use a lot more profanity.
        SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
        Right, except my Windows 98 drivers don't work with Windows 10 either... What's the point?
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
        The point is that your Windows 10 drivers from a year ago still work with the Windows 10 update you did today. This is not true of Linux driver binaries.
        majewsky 8y ago
        Yes, but that's also the reason why Linux has as much hardware support out of the box: because it forces drivers to be developed in-tree.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Windows doesn’t actually come with a dirth of drivers out of the box and it keeps backward compatibility with drivers longer.
        Dylan16807 8y ago
        I'm okay with directing "why would you want to do that?" at people that want to deliver binary drivers to their customers, since that makes them a lot harder to fix later. But unless it's a gnome dev speaking, I don't think it's something commonly aimed at users.
      - tapoxi 8y ago
        Snap/Snapcraft is a perfect example of the pain points Linux ecosystem, because Snap and Flatpak are two different solutions to the same problem. What do you tell grandma if a Flatpak version of her application exists, but not a Snap one?
        zrobotics 8y ago
        I've migrated multiple family members to Linux, and I've never had a single one ask how to install an apt. I just make sure all the applications they need (Libre office & Firefox mostly) are installed. This type of user isn't installing things on a regular basis, even on a windows machine. IMO the real pain points are for more advanced users, I prefer to develop on a Linux box but I have always had to keep a windows installation maintained just for mech CAD software, there simply isn't anything decent avaliable for Linux.
      - inawarminister 8y ago
        to be honest, put grandma in a XFCE distro with Windows 7/XP-like desktop and Chrome and she should be comfortable with anything. Like Linux Lite distro[0], I'm running it right now and except for the inability of using super/windows key as part of multi-key shortcuts ala Windows 7, it's almost perfect as a drop-in replacement for the latter (for me personally and a couple of my friends)... [0] https://www.linuxliteos.com/ https://www.linuxliteos.com/
        com2kid 8y ago
        > to be honest, put grandma in a XFCE distro with Windows 7/XP-like desktop and Chrome and she should be comfortable with anything. I did this awhile back. Grandma got upset that her library of Windows games, some of which she had been playing for over 15 years, weren't around anymore. As more and more stuff has moved online, this is less of a problem, but my mother is still reliant upon Flash for certain online games. Also those online experiences are, in general, inferior. They have lots of ads and pop-ups abound. The web pages are made as confusing as possible to try to entice viewers to click through to a "partner" and sign up for some service, etc etc. Comparatively, the old Wheel of Fortune game my Grandma got 15 or more years ago (on a physical CD!) is better than anything available now.
        rootusrootus 8y ago
        Ha, that's what would happen with my dad. All he gives a crap about is his chess game. Hell, just moving to a new laptop with the latest version of Windows screwed up his access to that game for a bit and he had a meltdown. If he weren't a grouchy old 85 year old man, not too receptive to fancy new technology, I'd buy him an iPad, put a nice chess game on it, and confiscate the PC.
        com2kid 8y ago
        > I'd buy him an iPad, put a nice chess game on it, and confiscate the PC. Yeah but then a few updates later the chess game adds IAP and starts showing deceptive ads every 5 moves. :(
- _emacsomancer_ 8y ago
  What are the major annoyances offered by "the Linux Desktop"? That I have too many choices and what a headache it is to have to choose a working environment rather than have some particular paradigm forced upon me?
  - jarcane 8y ago
    "Oh look, my video broke again because a kernel update isn't compatible with my drivers." "What do you mean my keyboard isn't supported?" "Why does my battery only last two hours now?" "Oh, this software is only available from source because the maintainer doesn't bother to release packages for my distro." "Oh, that's a bug in version X.1, but we patched that 9 versions ago. Why are you still using that?" "I have Debian." "Oh." conversely: "LOL, my media player broke because @HARDCORE_DISTRO released an alpha package as an update and now sound doesn't work."
    - quantum_magpie 8y ago
      None of those has been an issue for at least a decade on any major distro.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
        Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses.
        SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
        To be fair, it mainly seems to be your responses that are being dismissed and downvoted. Try being less rude (and less of a hypocrite re: evangelism).
      - thecatspaw 8y ago
        I recently tried to install antergos which is basically arch. Graphics drivers didnt work during install, no big deal, I'll just use text mode. Except the text mode didnt work either for some reason. To fix the issue I would have had to compile my own image, or to trust some random guy on github that he didnt put a rootkit in his installer. There are definitely annoyances like these which you dont have on windows/mac. You dont need to be a good programmer/hacker to fix issues like this, yet on linux, you sometimes do. While I really love linux and its distributions, you cant expect endusers to run them without big issues
- reitanqild 8y ago
  For me the annoyances of Windows and especially Mac are a lot bigger than those of Linux :-/
drunken-serval 8y ago
Linux was always the clear choice if you cared more about control over the machine than other factors.
professor_plum 8y ago
Also has better WMs and package management!

Seems like linux is the clear choice for now given the corporate behavior of MS and Apple.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

Only if you care about these minor annoyances more than the major ones offered by the Linux Desktop.

remlov 8y ago
I'd wager there are plenty of Linux Desktop users that feel that the inverse of annoyances are true, including myself.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  Assuredly, but that doesn't mean the opposite perspective isn't a legitimate one.
  - remlov 8y ago
    I agree with you there. For the general population, be it family, grandma, or individuals that tend to operate outside the mindset of the general audience here, the learning curve is going to be a bit steeper if you were to put Ubuntu in front of them. However, every one of their newer releases has made strides in terms of ease of use and stability. Personally I think https://snapcraft.io/ https://snapcraft.io/ lifts a HUGE burden off making popular software available to a non power user who might be new to linux.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
      I couldn't disagree more. Linux is fine for the kind of people who only use computers to consume content, but then again any personal web kiosk (like a phone or tablet) can easily serve that role so it isn't exactly a high bar. The real problem areas are when people who want a personal computer try to color outside the lines of whatever the distro developer intended as a use case ("Why would you want to do that?" is a common and annoying response).
      - mcnesium 8y ago
        > "Why would you want to do that?" I don't remember a Linus Torvalds say "you're not supposed to hold it this way" to anyone. Instead, …
        scarface74 8y ago
        Unless you want a stable infrastructure to keep binary drivers compatible with newer versions of Linux.... He would probably use a lot more profanity.
        SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
        Right, except my Windows 98 drivers don't work with Windows 10 either... What's the point?
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
        The point is that your Windows 10 drivers from a year ago still work with the Windows 10 update you did today. This is not true of Linux driver binaries.
        majewsky 8y ago
        Yes, but that's also the reason why Linux has as much hardware support out of the box: because it forces drivers to be developed in-tree.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Windows doesn’t actually come with a dirth of drivers out of the box and it keeps backward compatibility with drivers longer.
        Dylan16807 8y ago
        I'm okay with directing "why would you want to do that?" at people that want to deliver binary drivers to their customers, since that makes them a lot harder to fix later. But unless it's a gnome dev speaking, I don't think it's something commonly aimed at users.
    - tapoxi 8y ago
      Snap/Snapcraft is a perfect example of the pain points Linux ecosystem, because Snap and Flatpak are two different solutions to the same problem. What do you tell grandma if a Flatpak version of her application exists, but not a Snap one?
      - zrobotics 8y ago
        I've migrated multiple family members to Linux, and I've never had a single one ask how to install an apt. I just make sure all the applications they need (Libre office & Firefox mostly) are installed. This type of user isn't installing things on a regular basis, even on a windows machine. IMO the real pain points are for more advanced users, I prefer to develop on a Linux box but I have always had to keep a windows installation maintained just for mech CAD software, there simply isn't anything decent avaliable for Linux.
    - inawarminister 8y ago
      to be honest, put grandma in a XFCE distro with Windows 7/XP-like desktop and Chrome and she should be comfortable with anything. Like Linux Lite distro[0], I'm running it right now and except for the inability of using super/windows key as part of multi-key shortcuts ala Windows 7, it's almost perfect as a drop-in replacement for the latter (for me personally and a couple of my friends)... [0] https://www.linuxliteos.com/ https://www.linuxliteos.com/
      - com2kid 8y ago
        > to be honest, put grandma in a XFCE distro with Windows 7/XP-like desktop and Chrome and she should be comfortable with anything. I did this awhile back. Grandma got upset that her library of Windows games, some of which she had been playing for over 15 years, weren't around anymore. As more and more stuff has moved online, this is less of a problem, but my mother is still reliant upon Flash for certain online games. Also those online experiences are, in general, inferior. They have lots of ads and pop-ups abound. The web pages are made as confusing as possible to try to entice viewers to click through to a "partner" and sign up for some service, etc etc. Comparatively, the old Wheel of Fortune game my Grandma got 15 or more years ago (on a physical CD!) is better than anything available now.
        rootusrootus 8y ago
        Ha, that's what would happen with my dad. All he gives a crap about is his chess game. Hell, just moving to a new laptop with the latest version of Windows screwed up his access to that game for a bit and he had a meltdown. If he weren't a grouchy old 85 year old man, not too receptive to fancy new technology, I'd buy him an iPad, put a nice chess game on it, and confiscate the PC.
        com2kid 8y ago
        > I'd buy him an iPad, put a nice chess game on it, and confiscate the PC. Yeah but then a few updates later the chess game adds IAP and starts showing deceptive ads every 5 moves. :(
_emacsomancer_ 8y ago
What are the major annoyances offered by "the Linux Desktop"? That I have too many choices and what a headache it is to have to choose a working environment rather than have some particular paradigm forced upon me?
- jarcane 8y ago
  "Oh look, my video broke again because a kernel update isn't compatible with my drivers." "What do you mean my keyboard isn't supported?" "Why does my battery only last two hours now?" "Oh, this software is only available from source because the maintainer doesn't bother to release packages for my distro." "Oh, that's a bug in version X.1, but we patched that 9 versions ago. Why are you still using that?" "I have Debian." "Oh." conversely: "LOL, my media player broke because @HARDCORE_DISTRO released an alpha package as an update and now sound doesn't work."
  - quantum_magpie 8y ago
    None of those has been an issue for at least a decade on any major distro.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
      Such a Linux Desktop evangelist comment chain. Step one: ask what problems people are talking about. Step two: completely dismiss and downvote all responses.
      - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
        To be fair, it mainly seems to be your responses that are being dismissed and downvoted. Try being less rude (and less of a hypocrite re: evangelism).
    - thecatspaw 8y ago
      I recently tried to install antergos which is basically arch. Graphics drivers didnt work during install, no big deal, I'll just use text mode. Except the text mode didnt work either for some reason. To fix the issue I would have had to compile my own image, or to trust some random guy on github that he didnt put a rootkit in his installer. There are definitely annoyances like these which you dont have on windows/mac. You dont need to be a good programmer/hacker to fix issues like this, yet on linux, you sometimes do. While I really love linux and its distributions, you cant expect endusers to run them without big issues
reitanqild 8y ago
For me the annoyances of Windows and especially Mac are a lot bigger than those of Linux :-/

drunken-serval 8y ago

Linux was always the clear choice if you cared more about control over the machine than other factors.

professor_plum 8y ago

Also has better WMs and package management!