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Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise

Speaking as someone who has owned a number of sports cars with manual transmissions, I can tell you why I finally made the switch to automatic: Adaptive cruise control in stop and go traffic. I used to have to deal with a six-speed manual transmission in stop and go traffic for an hour every day, and it was pure torture. I mean, sure, it was fun for a weekend drive in the mountains, but it sucked the rest of the time. Oh, and as a side note, my new car with an automatic transmission and a 400+ HP engine accelerates from zero to 60 faster and smoother than any one of my previous cars. I will never go back! And I have paddle shifters, if I ever want to manually control the gears.

goatslacker 8y ago
Never found paddle shifters to be in the same league as a manual transmission even in modern high performance cars. There's always that bit of lag and delay with automatic that there isn't on a manual.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jjjensen90 8y ago
  Maybe you've only driven traditional automatics with paddle shifters slapped on? I've driven quite a few high performance sports cars with twin-clutch automated manuals, what most people would call an automatic (Cayman, GT-R, Evo X, etc) and the shifting using the paddle shifters is WILDLY faster than I could ever shift (I drive a 400+whp manual every day). There's a reason sports cars with heavier twin clutch transmissions still beat their manual counterparts in 0-60 and quarter mile... No human can shift as quickly as the computer controlling the clutch.
- brisance 8y ago
  Drive a Porsche newer than 2012, like a 981 or 991.1 or newer. The PDK transmission is very good, almost telepathic. Slight push on the throttle and it downshifts into the meat of the torque band. I currently drive an E92 M3 DCT which suffers from the "lag", which is why I'm on manual mode most of the time.
- llampx 8y ago
  I can't be as fast as a modern automatic. Maybe it's just me, but the time taken to depress the clutch, shift, then release the clutch is always longer than in automatics today.
pssflops 8y ago
My previous car, a 2008 Subaru WRX, in manual had cruise control; while it wasn't adaptive, it was the most important thing I will consider in any other manual transmission going forward. Stop-and-go traffic to my previous job made driving a chore and weekends weren't enough. I miss having that kind of control over the car, but the automatic Mazda3 I replaced it with has made that traffic an afterthought.
- bunderbunder 8y ago
  Would adaptive cruise control in stop-and-go traffic work at all with a manual? When the speed of traffic is vacillating between 0 and 30mph, there's never any one gear that you can stay in for long.
  - function_seven 8y ago
    No, it wouldn't. Technically you could have it adapt within a narrow range of speeds, but it would be annoying, fuel-wasting, and worse than just dealing with the speed yourself. CC on stick shifts works fine at steady highway speeds over a consistent grade.
    - gsnedders 8y ago
      Various manufacturers do sell cars with adaptive cruise control in manuals, but obviously it's limited to whatever gear the car is currently in.
  - ptaipale 8y ago
    It works in highway traffic, it's not unusual in new cars where I live (Finland). Most cars are manual shift, almost all have cruise control, some of the cruise controls are adaptive. Of course, in city traffic the adaptiveness is not very useful with manual transmission.
- dkr88 8y ago
  I test drove a 2008 WRX a while ago and the clutch was pretty heavy, IIRC. I remember thinking to myself "this would be a major pain in traffic".
0x00000000 8y ago
To each their own, but stop and go traffic does not exist in the absence of stoplights if you leave adequate space in front of you. If you tailgate, ride your brakes, or have to stop completely you are contributing to traffic jams behind you. I drive a 6 speed in one of the worst traffic areas in the US every day.
- tedunangst 8y ago
  How much space do I need to leave if the car in front of me is stopped?
  - 0x00000000 8y ago
    Enough so you can gradually slow down until they start to move without stopping yourself. Watch how big rig drivers drive in traffic where it is almost required that you don't keep repeatedly stopping.
    - pluto9 8y ago
      Big rigs definitely stop in these situations. No matter how much space they try to leave, other drivers speed around them to fill it and they have to stop anyway.
      - lobf 8y ago
        Sometimes they do, more often than not they aren't stopping, and somehow they seem to do better time than me on top of it.
- jhayward 8y ago
  This is arrant nonsense, and is just short of telling everyone who drives in freeway stop and go traffic that they're just idiots who don't know how to drive. Unless you can control the behavior of adjacent lanes there is no achievable amount of buffer space that eliminates stop and go. The best you can do is increase the glide time between stops. At times you will see, e.g., semis lining up side by side to help keep a zipper merge flowing, etc., but those cases are rare and not understood by other drivers.
city41 8y ago
My wife and I both have manuals and we sit in stop and go traffic every day. Having to shift in traffic doesn't even register with my brain that it's really anything at all. I simply don't notice.
- stouset 8y ago
  Yeah, I don't at all understand this mentality that stick shift is a burden in stop and go traffic. I've since switched to a motorcycle, but when I used to drive stick I can't say I ever really noticed or paid attention to the fact that I was having to shift, even in stop and go traffic. After you've gotten comfortable with shifting it just fades completely into the background.
  - inferiorhuman 8y ago
    > Yeah, I don't at all understand this mentality that stick shift is a burden in stop and go traffic. It's a burden if you're stuck in bad traffic, if you've got a heavy clutch, or if you're crawling up a hill. Worse if you've got more than one of those compounding factors.
    - city41 8y ago
      I do think the clutch is a factor. I've driven more "pure" sports cars and often their clutches require a lot of force. But I've never owned a car with a clutch like this. So yeah, maybe my comment was a bit naive. For me, motorcycles in traffic has been painful due to having to hold a heavy clutch in with your hand.
      - hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
        Just an aside, you shouldn't be holding the clutch in much. Only when coming to a stop in first gear (hold until the vehicle behind you stops so you know you won't get rear ended) and when starting to move (i.e. a few seconds before a light changes, or once traffic clears and you're planning to start moving again). You should be in neutral while stopped otherwise.
emodendroket 8y ago
People always say this, but frankly I find stop-and-go traffic isn't that bad if you put the car into neutral instead of holding down the clutch the whole time. I haven't looked back since I bought my first manual car. I never use cruise control at all though, even when I had an automatic car.
- jhayward 8y ago
  How many hours per day do you spend in stop and go traffic? I spent 20+ years driving stick in hour-long commutes (each way), and I can tell you that there is no free lunch to be found in N.
- mertd 8y ago
  The key word in the parent post is "adaptive". With adaptive CC, you don't do anything in stop and go traffic other than minor steering. The car just keeps about a car length distance with the car in front. It is very nice convenience feature.
  - emodendroket 8y ago
    I'm familiar with the concept, but I can't imagine I'd use it any more than I use regular cruise control on an empty highway.
    - ketralnis 8y ago
      You may not be able to imagine it, but the GP is saying that they actually do
      - emodendroket 8y ago
        Yes, he's sharing his experience. I am sharing mine. I'm not seeing the issue here.
        Retra 8y ago
        Your inability to imagine something is hardly an experience worth sharing.
skookumchuck 8y ago
> pure torture You're just not worthy of a stick. I'd get a crash box if they offered one. Synchromesh is for wussies.
int_handler 8y ago
Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.
- dmd 8y ago
  Do you want a choke, too?
  - ghouse 8y ago
    Electric or manual?
  - entee 8y ago
    A choke gets used once upon start, a shift happens dozens of times per drive, it's not the same thing. And no paddle replaces the sheer joy of rowing your own.
    - hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
      A choke gets used once upon start, a shift happens dozens of times per drive, it's not the same thing. It's still "increasing engagement" which is what GP claimed to want. How about a persistent pull to the right in the steering? That's continuous and increases engagement. How about occasional "death wobble" as found in many Jeeps? That will really sharpen your focus and keep you engaged. And no paddle replaces the sheer joy of rowing your own. That's a purely subjective statement.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  > Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It was about efficiency and cost for ages though. That's why manuals were popular and why they aren't popular in the US anymore. Modern automatics (dual clutch, CVTs, even computer controlled single clutch and plain old torque converter slushboxes) are so much more efficient now that manuals don't make as much sense as they used to.
toomanybeersies 8y ago
I've never had a huge issue with driving in stop-go traffic with a manual. It really depends on the type of car you're driving though, I guess. Driving a sports car with a grippy clutch is going to be painful. Driving a $750, 20 year old Mazda with a 2 L engine and a soft clutch isn't too bad at all, you just sort of ride the clutch (which I am aware isn't great for it). I think that there is nothing that beats driving a stick shift in winding hills. Autos and paddle shifts just don't feel the same. There's just something about the mechanical action of shifting manually that I love.
- ummonk 8y ago
  It isn’t that manual is bad at stop and go traffic. It is that adaptive cruise control is really great at it, and adaptive cruise control is only available on automatics.
  - camhutch 8y ago
    My manual VW Golf would like to have a word with you. I don't drive in stop-start traffic, so I don't know how well it would work, but my manual VW Golf MK VII has adaptive cruise control. If you need to shift up or down, you just do so and cruise control re-engages. I'm pretty much always in 6th gear when I've got ACC enabled.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    European cars have cruise control on manuals.
    - yurishimo 8y ago
      They said "adaptive cruise control". That's where the car will speed up or slow down based on the traffic around you automatically. Sort of like self driving but not nearly as demanding. Obviously manuals have had normal cruise control for decades.
      - revjx 8y ago
chrisdhoover 8y ago
I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading braking
- twblalock 8y ago
  Stop and go traffic happens in countries where almost everyone drives a manual, so I doubt automatics are to blame.
- developer2 8y ago
  I don't know where you live that you can stay in 2nd and crawl. Where I live, the moment you leave a few inches between your front bumper and the car in front of you, someone is guaranteed to cut you off and force you to brake to prevent hitting them. When I say "inches", I mean inches - 6-8 inches of space is enough for someone to think "I'll just squeeze in here".
  - brownbat 8y ago
    Hello New Jersey? :) I worry there's a sampling bias going on. When I commuted to work, I'd keep the same tight pattern everyone else used, and it felt like any time I let up, some jerk would take advantage. Then, for a while, I was suddenly paid to go between buildings on opposite sides of one of the worst traffic cities in the US. I always left with plenty of time and no urgency, so I would just stubbornly maintain plenty of stopping distance while everyone else was inches apart. Smoothing my braking pattern became a game. If you constantly leave that much room people weaving in becomes rare enough that you barely care when it happens. I feel like there's some bias affecting perception. Maybe it's a confound, or availability heuristic. Confound - if you're trying to hug a bumper, and suddenly there's a gap, maybe that's because your lane is suddenly moving faster and someone's taking advantage of that. If you always have space, you'll have it even when your lane is less attractive. (ie, The space doesn't make your lane attractive, the pace does.) Availability heuristic - if you care about people cutting you off and are adopting a strategy to prevent it, you will notice it more and put more weight on those occurrences than on all the seconds where no one is cutting you off. Before I had that job, I would have read this comment and thought it was nuts though, so not sure if anyone will actually believe me.
sopooneo 8y ago
But nowadays, to stop quickly in an emergency, shouldn't you simply stomp as hard as you can on the brake while still remembering to stear? Or do you find that people don't even know that?
jfroma 8y ago
I have never owned a deportive car but in my country automatic transmission is not common. For a long time automatic cars were much more expensive. I have owned manual my entire life and IMHO after the first month driving switching becomes something your brain does automatically, pretty much like biking.
entee 8y ago
At this point performance cars are no longer truly exploitable on a road legally. Yeah you can do a quick acceleration at the occasional stoplight, but on pretty much no public road are you going to get to a speed that's close to the car's limit. And if you do, it'll be insanely dangerous because even though safety systems are amazing these days, your reaction time isn't any faster than it used to be and the people around you may not be as well protected. It's useful on the track you say? Maybe, and I have no doubt I'd rather a paddle shifter for outright speed and ease. It's probably safer to learn to drive at high speed having removed one of the variables at least at first. That said, I'll never be Michael Schumacher. Bottom line when you buy a performance car: what are you trying to do? It can't be "win" or see the limits of the car, so what is it? Clearly it's to have fun. And I think it's hard to argue that driving a stick is more fun, except perhaps in traffic. In the end I'd rather endure minor annoyance in traffic and in the city in exchange for the fun that comes elsewhere. I've put my money where my mouth is, own 2 cars, both stick.
- thinkmassive 8y ago
  Acceleration is a lot more fun than velocity for most people. You can experience high acceleration (in all directions) at low speeds in a good nimble sports car, and stay completely within the spirit of the law.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Second that. There's an effectively five-way intersection near me, where I need to turn left from a side road onto a state highway that's busy during the day. So I basically drift from a standing start. I shift from first to second in the middle, which shapes the drift. And at no point do I exceed the speed limit.
  - Theodores 8y ago
    People want that acceleration in something that is not a 'good nimble sports car', so a Porsche SUV is nearer the mark, or, a generation ago, a hot hatch. There is a rough measure of power going on with these status symbols. Everyone would be driving Ariel Atoms and Caterham Lotus 7 cars or Mazda Miatas if 'good nimble sports car' really satisfied what was allegedly wanted. So the 'what do you want, what are you trying to achieve' aspect of owning that fancy car that can do silly speeds has to have more to it than that thrill of acceleration. It is about where you see yourself in the world - status.
King-Aaron 8y ago
Why not both? I have two manuals and an auto, the auto is used for the commute to work while I have a racecar and a four wheel drive (to take the racecar to the track). The auto is lovely when you have a coffee on the go, and the manuals do a far better skid. They all have their merits, it's purely down to individual choice and don't see any need to try and justify it.
- tdsamardzhiev 8y ago
  Because if I'm sacrificing money/space to keep and maintain 3 cars, that means I'm not using it for something more important. A matter of perspective, I guess.
statictype 8y ago
Do you use the paddle shifters. Ever? I have one of those triptronic things thinking I can always get manual control when I want and I don't think I used it even once
- codazoda 8y ago
  I use it it mountains, much the same way I downshift an old automatic. Mine still down shifts when I'm in manual mode with the pardles, which is kinda annoying.
userbinator 8y ago
Oh, and as a side note, my new car with an automatic transmission and a 400+ HP engine accelerates from zero to 60 faster and smoother than any one of my previous cars. Yes, automatic transmissions have a big advantage in acceleration which is why they're so common in drag racing. The torque converter means there's an "extra low gear" to provide more torque from a standstill, and there's no need to operate a clutch that can take repeated slipping without quickly wearing out --- cars can "slip" the torque converter at full throttle for a moment and launch with the engine already running near the optimal RPM for peak power. In fact, one of the most popular transmissions in drag racing is a two-speed automatic from the early 50s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerglide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerglide
partycoder 8y ago
If you live in an urban area, most of the time you will be going from zero to zero every 10 seconds.
sologoub 8y ago
When in college and working full time, I used to start my day by driving through some of the worst of LA traffic 405/101 and then in the evening come full circle by going 101 to 23 to 118 to 405 and back to 101, essentially circling the west part of San Fernando Valley, Conejo Valley, Simi Valley and back to central San Fernando Valley. Now that was a commute! Total time on the road 4+ hours in a 6-speed manual sports car with that exact heavy clutch. Don’t think I’d be able to keep my sanity if it was an auto - at least I could focus on something other than the miserable drive and crazy work/study hours. Priorities change, but if I was making a choice today just for me - manual all the way! Now if I could only find a car without electric power steering... or any power steering at all... (Those old NSXs were a blast to drive!)
- maccard 8y ago
  > Now if I could only find a car without electric power steering... or any power steering at all... (Those old NSXs were a blast to drive!) You want a Lotus. It's a glorified go kart. Even the radio is optional.
lagadu 8y ago
I'm on the other side of the fence. My previous car had an automatic, a lovely one too: the 7-speed getrag dual-clutch that bmw puts almost exclusively on the M models. When I bought it I thought that because the car was so good and it had so much power I would be ok with having it. Nope, I was bored out of my mind and the paddle shifters were no replacement. Sold it after 6 months, bought a manual again and am never going back to automatics. Yes, they're slower and less fuel efficient but they're so much more fun; like Hammond said "changing gear is a vital form of self-expression". Probably helps that I don't drive in traffic, only for fun.
dangerface 8y ago
> as someone who has owned a number of sports cars > stop and go traffic Well theres your problem, you wouldn't take a tractor on a track day why would you take a sports car into stop and go traffic? buy a small manual, sit in second problem solved, will pay for itself with the petrol you will save.
rb666 8y ago
PLANET KILLER. But yes, automatics are just so much more comfortable during rush hour.
eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
My previous car had paddle shifters (DSG system) and I did not find it to be a great shifting experience at times, especially under 20mph between first and second. I saw it most pronounced when approaching a stop. There were other times during fast up or down shifting that the car would get confused and pause before figuring out what to do. Also, these newer automatic transmissions still do not give you anywhere near the level of control you get over the car, which I found to be really annoying whenever it snowed. I'm sure these systems have improved, but last year I sold that car and bought a manual instead. It was hard to find, but I'm glad I switched back.

goatslacker 8y ago

Never found paddle shifters to be in the same league as a manual transmission even in modern high performance cars. There's always that bit of lag and delay with automatic that there isn't on a manual.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jjjensen90 8y ago
Maybe you've only driven traditional automatics with paddle shifters slapped on? I've driven quite a few high performance sports cars with twin-clutch automated manuals, what most people would call an automatic (Cayman, GT-R, Evo X, etc) and the shifting using the paddle shifters is WILDLY faster than I could ever shift (I drive a 400+whp manual every day). There's a reason sports cars with heavier twin clutch transmissions still beat their manual counterparts in 0-60 and quarter mile... No human can shift as quickly as the computer controlling the clutch.
brisance 8y ago
Drive a Porsche newer than 2012, like a 981 or 991.1 or newer. The PDK transmission is very good, almost telepathic. Slight push on the throttle and it downshifts into the meat of the torque band. I currently drive an E92 M3 DCT which suffers from the "lag", which is why I'm on manual mode most of the time.
llampx 8y ago
I can't be as fast as a modern automatic. Maybe it's just me, but the time taken to depress the clutch, shift, then release the clutch is always longer than in automatics today.

pssflops 8y ago

My previous car, a 2008 Subaru WRX, in manual had cruise control; while it wasn't adaptive, it was the most important thing I will consider in any other manual transmission going forward. Stop-and-go traffic to my previous job made driving a chore and weekends weren't enough. I miss having that kind of control over the car, but the automatic Mazda3 I replaced it with has made that traffic an afterthought.

bunderbunder 8y ago
Would adaptive cruise control in stop-and-go traffic work at all with a manual? When the speed of traffic is vacillating between 0 and 30mph, there's never any one gear that you can stay in for long.
- function_seven 8y ago
  No, it wouldn't. Technically you could have it adapt within a narrow range of speeds, but it would be annoying, fuel-wasting, and worse than just dealing with the speed yourself. CC on stick shifts works fine at steady highway speeds over a consistent grade.
  - gsnedders 8y ago
    Various manufacturers do sell cars with adaptive cruise control in manuals, but obviously it's limited to whatever gear the car is currently in.
- ptaipale 8y ago
  It works in highway traffic, it's not unusual in new cars where I live (Finland). Most cars are manual shift, almost all have cruise control, some of the cruise controls are adaptive. Of course, in city traffic the adaptiveness is not very useful with manual transmission.
dkr88 8y ago
I test drove a 2008 WRX a while ago and the clutch was pretty heavy, IIRC. I remember thinking to myself "this would be a major pain in traffic".

0x00000000 8y ago

To each their own, but stop and go traffic does not exist in the absence of stoplights if you leave adequate space in front of you. If you tailgate, ride your brakes, or have to stop completely you are contributing to traffic jams behind you. I drive a 6 speed in one of the worst traffic areas in the US every day.

tedunangst 8y ago
How much space do I need to leave if the car in front of me is stopped?
- 0x00000000 8y ago
  Enough so you can gradually slow down until they start to move without stopping yourself. Watch how big rig drivers drive in traffic where it is almost required that you don't keep repeatedly stopping.
  - pluto9 8y ago
    Big rigs definitely stop in these situations. No matter how much space they try to leave, other drivers speed around them to fill it and they have to stop anyway.
    - lobf 8y ago
      Sometimes they do, more often than not they aren't stopping, and somehow they seem to do better time than me on top of it.
jhayward 8y ago
This is arrant nonsense, and is just short of telling everyone who drives in freeway stop and go traffic that they're just idiots who don't know how to drive. Unless you can control the behavior of adjacent lanes there is no achievable amount of buffer space that eliminates stop and go. The best you can do is increase the glide time between stops. At times you will see, e.g., semis lining up side by side to help keep a zipper merge flowing, etc., but those cases are rare and not understood by other drivers.

city41 8y ago

My wife and I both have manuals and we sit in stop and go traffic every day. Having to shift in traffic doesn't even register with my brain that it's really anything at all. I simply don't notice.

stouset 8y ago
Yeah, I don't at all understand this mentality that stick shift is a burden in stop and go traffic. I've since switched to a motorcycle, but when I used to drive stick I can't say I ever really noticed or paid attention to the fact that I was having to shift, even in stop and go traffic. After you've gotten comfortable with shifting it just fades completely into the background.
- inferiorhuman 8y ago
  > Yeah, I don't at all understand this mentality that stick shift is a burden in stop and go traffic. It's a burden if you're stuck in bad traffic, if you've got a heavy clutch, or if you're crawling up a hill. Worse if you've got more than one of those compounding factors.
  - city41 8y ago
    I do think the clutch is a factor. I've driven more "pure" sports cars and often their clutches require a lot of force. But I've never owned a car with a clutch like this. So yeah, maybe my comment was a bit naive. For me, motorcycles in traffic has been painful due to having to hold a heavy clutch in with your hand.
    - hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
      Just an aside, you shouldn't be holding the clutch in much. Only when coming to a stop in first gear (hold until the vehicle behind you stops so you know you won't get rear ended) and when starting to move (i.e. a few seconds before a light changes, or once traffic clears and you're planning to start moving again). You should be in neutral while stopped otherwise.

emodendroket 8y ago

People always say this, but frankly I find stop-and-go traffic isn't that bad if you put the car into neutral instead of holding down the clutch the whole time. I haven't looked back since I bought my first manual car. I never use cruise control at all though, even when I had an automatic car.

jhayward 8y ago
How many hours per day do you spend in stop and go traffic? I spent 20+ years driving stick in hour-long commutes (each way), and I can tell you that there is no free lunch to be found in N.
mertd 8y ago
The key word in the parent post is "adaptive". With adaptive CC, you don't do anything in stop and go traffic other than minor steering. The car just keeps about a car length distance with the car in front. It is very nice convenience feature.
- emodendroket 8y ago
  I'm familiar with the concept, but I can't imagine I'd use it any more than I use regular cruise control on an empty highway.
  - ketralnis 8y ago
    You may not be able to imagine it, but the GP is saying that they actually do
    - emodendroket 8y ago
      Yes, he's sharing his experience. I am sharing mine. I'm not seeing the issue here.
      - Retra 8y ago
        Your inability to imagine something is hardly an experience worth sharing.

skookumchuck 8y ago

> pure torture You're just not worthy of a stick. I'd get a crash box if they offered one. Synchromesh is for wussies.

int_handler 8y ago

Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It is about driver engagement. Yes, you can row your own gears with paddle shifters, but no automatic will ever give you the same kind of engagement or connectedness with the car as a manual with three pedals will. But yes, if there is a smoking gun for the death of the manual in America, it would be our crumbling, congested roads and absurdly long daily commutes.

dmd 8y ago
Do you want a choke, too?
- ghouse 8y ago
  Electric or manual?
- entee 8y ago
  A choke gets used once upon start, a shift happens dozens of times per drive, it's not the same thing. And no paddle replaces the sheer joy of rowing your own.
  - hfdgiutdryg 8y ago
    A choke gets used once upon start, a shift happens dozens of times per drive, it's not the same thing. It's still "increasing engagement" which is what GP claimed to want. How about a persistent pull to the right in the steering? That's continuous and increases engagement. How about occasional "death wobble" as found in many Jeeps? That will really sharpen your focus and keep you engaged. And no paddle replaces the sheer joy of rowing your own. That's a purely subjective statement.
inferiorhuman 8y ago
> Driving a manual car isn't about efficiency. It was about efficiency and cost for ages though. That's why manuals were popular and why they aren't popular in the US anymore. Modern automatics (dual clutch, CVTs, even computer controlled single clutch and plain old torque converter slushboxes) are so much more efficient now that manuals don't make as much sense as they used to.

toomanybeersies 8y ago

I've never had a huge issue with driving in stop-go traffic with a manual. It really depends on the type of car you're driving though, I guess. Driving a sports car with a grippy clutch is going to be painful. Driving a $750, 20 year old Mazda with a 2 L engine and a soft clutch isn't too bad at all, you just sort of ride the clutch (which I am aware isn't great for it). I think that there is nothing that beats driving a stick shift in winding hills. Autos and paddle shifts just don't feel the same. There's just something about the mechanical action of shifting manually that I love.

ummonk 8y ago
It isn’t that manual is bad at stop and go traffic. It is that adaptive cruise control is really great at it, and adaptive cruise control is only available on automatics.
- camhutch 8y ago
  My manual VW Golf would like to have a word with you. I don't drive in stop-start traffic, so I don't know how well it would work, but my manual VW Golf MK VII has adaptive cruise control. If you need to shift up or down, you just do so and cruise control re-engages. I'm pretty much always in 6th gear when I've got ACC enabled.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  European cars have cruise control on manuals.
  - yurishimo 8y ago
    They said "adaptive cruise control". That's where the car will speed up or slow down based on the traffic around you automatically. Sort of like self driving but not nearly as demanding. Obviously manuals have had normal cruise control for decades.
    - revjx 8y ago

chrisdhoover 8y ago

I just do like the truckers do, leave it in second and crawl. It helps to not be concerned with maintaining a 6 inch gap with the car ahead. I truly believe that stop and go is caused by automatics. All of the brake tapping tends to bunch people up at the end of long lines forcing them to a complete stop. In a manual just let off on the gas a little and the engine brakes a little, no brake lights to create cascading braking

twblalock 8y ago
Stop and go traffic happens in countries where almost everyone drives a manual, so I doubt automatics are to blame.
developer2 8y ago
I don't know where you live that you can stay in 2nd and crawl. Where I live, the moment you leave a few inches between your front bumper and the car in front of you, someone is guaranteed to cut you off and force you to brake to prevent hitting them. When I say "inches", I mean inches - 6-8 inches of space is enough for someone to think "I'll just squeeze in here".
- brownbat 8y ago
  Hello New Jersey? :) I worry there's a sampling bias going on. When I commuted to work, I'd keep the same tight pattern everyone else used, and it felt like any time I let up, some jerk would take advantage. Then, for a while, I was suddenly paid to go between buildings on opposite sides of one of the worst traffic cities in the US. I always left with plenty of time and no urgency, so I would just stubbornly maintain plenty of stopping distance while everyone else was inches apart. Smoothing my braking pattern became a game. If you constantly leave that much room people weaving in becomes rare enough that you barely care when it happens. I feel like there's some bias affecting perception. Maybe it's a confound, or availability heuristic. Confound - if you're trying to hug a bumper, and suddenly there's a gap, maybe that's because your lane is suddenly moving faster and someone's taking advantage of that. If you always have space, you'll have it even when your lane is less attractive. (ie, The space doesn't make your lane attractive, the pace does.) Availability heuristic - if you care about people cutting you off and are adopting a strategy to prevent it, you will notice it more and put more weight on those occurrences than on all the seconds where no one is cutting you off. Before I had that job, I would have read this comment and thought it was nuts though, so not sure if anyone will actually believe me.

sopooneo 8y ago

But nowadays, to stop quickly in an emergency, shouldn't you simply stomp as hard as you can on the brake while still remembering to stear? Or do you find that people don't even know that?

jfroma 8y ago

I have never owned a deportive car but in my country automatic transmission is not common. For a long time automatic cars were much more expensive. I have owned manual my entire life and IMHO after the first month driving switching becomes something your brain does automatically, pretty much like biking.

entee 8y ago

At this point performance cars are no longer truly exploitable on a road legally. Yeah you can do a quick acceleration at the occasional stoplight, but on pretty much no public road are you going to get to a speed that's close to the car's limit. And if you do, it'll be insanely dangerous because even though safety systems are amazing these days, your reaction time isn't any faster than it used to be and the people around you may not be as well protected. It's useful on the track you say? Maybe, and I have no doubt I'd rather a paddle shifter for outright speed and ease. It's probably safer to learn to drive at high speed having removed one of the variables at least at first. That said, I'll never be Michael Schumacher. Bottom line when you buy a performance car: what are you trying to do? It can't be "win" or see the limits of the car, so what is it? Clearly it's to have fun. And I think it's hard to argue that driving a stick is more fun, except perhaps in traffic. In the end I'd rather endure minor annoyance in traffic and in the city in exchange for the fun that comes elsewhere. I've put my money where my mouth is, own 2 cars, both stick.

thinkmassive 8y ago
Acceleration is a lot more fun than velocity for most people. You can experience high acceleration (in all directions) at low speeds in a good nimble sports car, and stay completely within the spirit of the law.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Second that. There's an effectively five-way intersection near me, where I need to turn left from a side road onto a state highway that's busy during the day. So I basically drift from a standing start. I shift from first to second in the middle, which shapes the drift. And at no point do I exceed the speed limit.
- Theodores 8y ago
  People want that acceleration in something that is not a 'good nimble sports car', so a Porsche SUV is nearer the mark, or, a generation ago, a hot hatch. There is a rough measure of power going on with these status symbols. Everyone would be driving Ariel Atoms and Caterham Lotus 7 cars or Mazda Miatas if 'good nimble sports car' really satisfied what was allegedly wanted. So the 'what do you want, what are you trying to achieve' aspect of owning that fancy car that can do silly speeds has to have more to it than that thrill of acceleration. It is about where you see yourself in the world - status.

King-Aaron 8y ago

Why not both? I have two manuals and an auto, the auto is used for the commute to work while I have a racecar and a four wheel drive (to take the racecar to the track). The auto is lovely when you have a coffee on the go, and the manuals do a far better skid. They all have their merits, it's purely down to individual choice and don't see any need to try and justify it.

tdsamardzhiev 8y ago
Because if I'm sacrificing money/space to keep and maintain 3 cars, that means I'm not using it for something more important. A matter of perspective, I guess.

statictype 8y ago

Do you use the paddle shifters. Ever? I have one of those triptronic things thinking I can always get manual control when I want and I don't think I used it even once

codazoda 8y ago
I use it it mountains, much the same way I downshift an old automatic. Mine still down shifts when I'm in manual mode with the pardles, which is kinda annoying.

userbinator 8y ago

Oh, and as a side note, my new car with an automatic transmission and a 400+ HP engine accelerates from zero to 60 faster and smoother than any one of my previous cars. Yes, automatic transmissions have a big advantage in acceleration which is why they're so common in drag racing. The torque converter means there's an "extra low gear" to provide more torque from a standstill, and there's no need to operate a clutch that can take repeated slipping without quickly wearing out --- cars can "slip" the torque converter at full throttle for a moment and launch with the engine already running near the optimal RPM for peak power. In fact, one of the most popular transmissions in drag racing is a two-speed automatic from the early 50s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerglide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerglide

partycoder 8y ago

If you live in an urban area, most of the time you will be going from zero to zero every 10 seconds.

sologoub 8y ago

When in college and working full time, I used to start my day by driving through some of the worst of LA traffic 405/101 and then in the evening come full circle by going 101 to 23 to 118 to 405 and back to 101, essentially circling the west part of San Fernando Valley, Conejo Valley, Simi Valley and back to central San Fernando Valley. Now that was a commute! Total time on the road 4+ hours in a 6-speed manual sports car with that exact heavy clutch. Don’t think I’d be able to keep my sanity if it was an auto - at least I could focus on something other than the miserable drive and crazy work/study hours. Priorities change, but if I was making a choice today just for me - manual all the way! Now if I could only find a car without electric power steering... or any power steering at all... (Those old NSXs were a blast to drive!)

maccard 8y ago
> Now if I could only find a car without electric power steering... or any power steering at all... (Those old NSXs were a blast to drive!) You want a Lotus. It's a glorified go kart. Even the radio is optional.

lagadu 8y ago

I'm on the other side of the fence. My previous car had an automatic, a lovely one too: the 7-speed getrag dual-clutch that bmw puts almost exclusively on the M models. When I bought it I thought that because the car was so good and it had so much power I would be ok with having it. Nope, I was bored out of my mind and the paddle shifters were no replacement. Sold it after 6 months, bought a manual again and am never going back to automatics. Yes, they're slower and less fuel efficient but they're so much more fun; like Hammond said "changing gear is a vital form of self-expression". Probably helps that I don't drive in traffic, only for fun.

dangerface 8y ago

> as someone who has owned a number of sports cars > stop and go traffic Well theres your problem, you wouldn't take a tractor on a track day why would you take a sports car into stop and go traffic? buy a small manual, sit in second problem solved, will pay for itself with the petrol you will save.

rb666 8y ago

PLANET KILLER. But yes, automatics are just so much more comfortable during rush hour.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago

My previous car had paddle shifters (DSG system) and I did not find it to be a great shifting experience at times, especially under 20mph between first and second. I saw it most pronounced when approaching a stop. There were other times during fast up or down shifting that the car would get confused and pause before figuring out what to do. Also, these newer automatic transmissions still do not give you anywhere near the level of control you get over the car, which I found to be really annoying whenever it snowed. I'm sure these systems have improved, but last year I sold that car and bought a manual instead. It was hard to find, but I'm glad I switched back.