8 ms·

Prior discussions (not the same link) on HN, posted for reference because they touch on the past research that was previously posted here: https://news.ycombin

Prior discussions (not the same link) on HN, posted for reference because they touch on the past research that was previously posted here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17446016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17446016 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094 (this is the parent link for the antiviral risk reduction study -- a good read, comments and source article) There's a decent amount of reading when scholar-googling: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hsv1+alzheimers https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hsv1+alzheimers I can't find it now, but there's also a past HN discussion about a week prior to the HSV/HHV causative study that points to the function of beta-amyloid as potentially to tangle and disable Herpes in the brain, leading one to believe that β-Amyloid overproduction and its associated side-effects may potentially be a trade for substantially longer life and a slower passing versus a more immediate exit through e.g. encephalitis from an active infection. https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(18)30526-9 https://www.cell.com/neuron/fulltext/S0896-6273(18)30526-9 (study link) There's also research pointing to sleep's function as helping clear out plaques such as beta-amyloid. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16026655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16026655 Finally, there's at least a bit of research pointing to boosted susceptibility of herpes viral infections when carrying ApoE4: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hsv1+apoe4 https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=hsv1+apoe4 The novel conclusion from all of this, which I suspect is being actively investigated, is that there's a potentially complicated interplay of an enhanced viral infection (HSV/HHV enabled by ApoE4) + evolutionary defense going into overdrive (β-Amyloid) + sleep deprivation keeping the body from clearing out the residue -> disease. --- I'm particularly motivated to track this research because of its prevalence in my family background and because, from what I can tell, I've thus far managed to avoid the environmental trigger-pull. I can already tell you I'll probably go on (val)acyclovir lifetime if I'm ever diagnosed with any particular strain, as it looks like active infection, with outbreaks, is what's likely to act as the first domino to tip.

graeme 8y ago
How would you know if you had HSV? My impression was that a lot of infections are so mild that those with them don't realize they had it.
- eganist 8y ago
  The causative study pointed to people who were specifically diagnosed. There's a probable difference in shed-rates in people who have recurring outbreaks v. people who don't. I believe there's also a difference in outbreak rates in people who have ApoE4 v. people who don't, but I shouldn't be quoted on that. But you're right in asking, and the answer is probably to go to a doctor if you see new sores and get on the antivirals if you're diagnosed.
- chimeracoder 8y ago
  > How would you know if you had HSV? My impression was that a lot of infections are so mild that those with them don't realize they had it. That's true. There's a blood test you can do, though.
  - kurthr 8y ago
    My understanding is that the (old?) test is sensitive to both HSV1 (oral cold sores) as well as HSV2 (genital) because their protein coats are similar... so if you have cold sores you'll test positive even if you don't have HSV2. Of course their effect on the brain could be similar... although more than 50% of people have HSV1.
- caycep 8y ago
  This will be difficult. Everyone technically has HSV, it's just part of the environment, like E. coli. So the question may end up turning - do you give a medicine long-term to suppress existing HSV "flora" in the body/restore the immune system's ability to do so, vs. the side effects of such meds. Some people are on long-term acyclovir or valacyclovir, at the risk of increased strain on the kidneys, etc.
- entwife 8y ago
  Evidence of previous HSV infection can be obtained by a laboratory blood test for antibodies to HSV-1 and/or HSV-2 (IgG for past infections, IgM for more recent infections.)
mrfusion 8y ago
Thanks for all the info! Would you mind expanding in the valacyclovir lifetime treatment? What is that? If you never notice any active infections then you think you’re pretty safe?
- eganist 8y ago
  Not a doctor; can't give you medical advice. Just giving deductions I'm making based on current research which could all play out to be very, very wrong. Valacyclovir is brand-named Valtrex. Basically, if you're ever diagnosed with herpes of any variant, you should ask your doctor about what to expect if you go on Valacyclovir to ward off recurring outbreaks. If those side effects don't sound disagreeable to you v. the possible mitigation of dementia/alzheimer's, then it might make sense to go on it. The risk reduction study (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322463.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322463.php) focused on a population which had specifically been diagnosed.
  - mrfusion 8y ago
    Thanks. What’s your take on this article: https://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Efficacy-of-antiVZV-antiHSV3-vaccine-HSV1-HSV2-recurrent-herpes-simplex-Jacqueline-Le-Goaster-2012.pdf https://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Efficac... Maybe you should get this vaccine instead of valtrex? Or both?
    - eganist 8y ago
      I've got the former. I'd personally still also do the latter. Consider me paranoid, but if diagnosed, I'm sold on the side effects of a lifetime of valacyclovir being far less inconvenient than a descent into oblivion.
    - colordrops 8y ago
      Wait, is that a cure for herpes?
      - 8y ago
mrfusion 8y ago
You seem really knowledgeable about this stuff. I’d be curious what diet you’d recommend for a two copy apoe4?
- amelius 8y ago
  Not an expert, but probably should avoid arginine and take more lysine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19288025 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19288025 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3115841 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3115841 Anyway, I think it's about time we get some big-data results on diet and illness. Question is: where is the data and how do we get access?
  - graeme 8y ago
    Doesn’t that abstract say that arginine inhibits hsv?
- eganist 8y ago
  I don't know if I've ever followed specific dietary recommendations, but a quick Google Scholar search seems to find multiple independent conclusions supporting unsaturated fatty acids. Easiest way to hit that would be to pursue a Mediterranean diet, and also possibly more fish/seafood (https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad111265 https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-...). "Do as I say, not as I do." My diet is awful mostly because food is my vice. Amelius replied to you with possible recommendations for reducing HSV risk in a dietary manner. I'll take a read too.
faitswulff 8y ago
> I can't find it now, but there's also a past HN discussion about a week prior to the HSV/HHV causative study that points to the function of beta-amyloid as potentially to tangle and disable Herpes in the brain I believe this is the discussion you were thinking of? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094#17540106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094#17540106

graeme 8y ago

How would you know if you had HSV? My impression was that a lot of infections are so mild that those with them don't realize they had it.

eganist 8y ago
The causative study pointed to people who were specifically diagnosed. There's a probable difference in shed-rates in people who have recurring outbreaks v. people who don't. I believe there's also a difference in outbreak rates in people who have ApoE4 v. people who don't, but I shouldn't be quoted on that. But you're right in asking, and the answer is probably to go to a doctor if you see new sores and get on the antivirals if you're diagnosed.
chimeracoder 8y ago
> How would you know if you had HSV? My impression was that a lot of infections are so mild that those with them don't realize they had it. That's true. There's a blood test you can do, though.
- kurthr 8y ago
  My understanding is that the (old?) test is sensitive to both HSV1 (oral cold sores) as well as HSV2 (genital) because their protein coats are similar... so if you have cold sores you'll test positive even if you don't have HSV2. Of course their effect on the brain could be similar... although more than 50% of people have HSV1.
caycep 8y ago
This will be difficult. Everyone technically has HSV, it's just part of the environment, like E. coli. So the question may end up turning - do you give a medicine long-term to suppress existing HSV "flora" in the body/restore the immune system's ability to do so, vs. the side effects of such meds. Some people are on long-term acyclovir or valacyclovir, at the risk of increased strain on the kidneys, etc.
entwife 8y ago
Evidence of previous HSV infection can be obtained by a laboratory blood test for antibodies to HSV-1 and/or HSV-2 (IgG for past infections, IgM for more recent infections.)

mrfusion 8y ago

Thanks for all the info! Would you mind expanding in the valacyclovir lifetime treatment? What is that? If you never notice any active infections then you think you’re pretty safe?

eganist 8y ago
Not a doctor; can't give you medical advice. Just giving deductions I'm making based on current research which could all play out to be very, very wrong. Valacyclovir is brand-named Valtrex. Basically, if you're ever diagnosed with herpes of any variant, you should ask your doctor about what to expect if you go on Valacyclovir to ward off recurring outbreaks. If those side effects don't sound disagreeable to you v. the possible mitigation of dementia/alzheimer's, then it might make sense to go on it. The risk reduction study (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322463.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/322463.php) focused on a population which had specifically been diagnosed.
- mrfusion 8y ago
  Thanks. What’s your take on this article: https://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Efficacy-of-antiVZV-antiHSV3-vaccine-HSV1-HSV2-recurrent-herpes-simplex-Jacqueline-Le-Goaster-2012.pdf https://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Efficac... Maybe you should get this vaccine instead of valtrex? Or both?
  - eganist 8y ago
    I've got the former. I'd personally still also do the latter. Consider me paranoid, but if diagnosed, I'm sold on the side effects of a lifetime of valacyclovir being far less inconvenient than a descent into oblivion.
  - colordrops 8y ago
    Wait, is that a cure for herpes?
    - 8y ago

mrfusion 8y ago

You seem really knowledgeable about this stuff. I’d be curious what diet you’d recommend for a two copy apoe4?

amelius 8y ago
Not an expert, but probably should avoid arginine and take more lysine. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19288025 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19288025 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3115841 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3115841 Anyway, I think it's about time we get some big-data results on diet and illness. Question is: where is the data and how do we get access?
- graeme 8y ago
  Doesn’t that abstract say that arginine inhibits hsv?
eganist 8y ago
I don't know if I've ever followed specific dietary recommendations, but a quick Google Scholar search seems to find multiple independent conclusions supporting unsaturated fatty acids. Easiest way to hit that would be to pursue a Mediterranean diet, and also possibly more fish/seafood (https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-disease/jad111265 https://content.iospress.com/articles/journal-of-alzheimers-...). "Do as I say, not as I do." My diet is awful mostly because food is my vice. Amelius replied to you with possible recommendations for reducing HSV risk in a dietary manner. I'll take a read too.

faitswulff 8y ago

> I can't find it now, but there's also a past HN discussion about a week prior to the HSV/HHV causative study that points to the function of beta-amyloid as potentially to tangle and disable Herpes in the brain I believe this is the discussion you were thinking of? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094#17540106 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17540094#17540106