7 ms·

All my experience shopping at grocery chains in the US and elsewhere has impressed upon me that these workers represent the absolute classic, textbook case for

by biztos 8y ago

All my experience shopping at grocery chains in the US and elsewhere has impressed upon me that these workers represent the absolute classic, textbook case for unionization. Yes, including Whole Paycheck[0] as well as Trader Joe's and Safeway and Von's and everybody else. While I can imagine Amazon having a loathing of unions, if they really want to be in this space they will sooner or later have to contend with the fact that this is an industry that needs a union. And I think, at obvious risk of being wrong, that the US is going to become once again more union-friendly in the coming years. So maybe a very friendly, not very confrontational, laid-back and smiley group of workers flirting with unionization might be a way for Amazon to put a toe in that water without overcommitting. Much as the WholeFoods acquisition was per se. [0]: Whole Foods goes by this nickname in California. Because you spend your...

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jimmy1 8y ago
Just FYI, everyone calls Whole Foods Whole Paycheck.
- judgardner 8y ago
  Whole Wallet as well.
- Multicomp 8y ago
  I disagree. Before today, I'd never heard of this terminology, and I'm next to a WF each workday.
  - bena 8y ago
    People have a lot of "clever" diminutives for things they don't like for nebulous reasons they can't actually articulate. It makes me question the thoughts of anyone who consistently uses them in an argument or rant. It feels as if the speaker is more interested in scoring laughs than making any point.
    - jimmy1 8y ago
      > People have a lot of "clever" diminutives for things they don't like for nebulous reasons they can't actually articulate. I shop at Whole Foods quite frequently. There isn't some conspiracy or nefarious intent in calling Whole Foods "Whole Paycheck" -- it's usually used amongst Whole Foods shoppers between themselves when they describe their shopping experience (...in my experience) If it is still tough for you to grasp, I will break it down for you really simply. Whole Foods sells the same shit you can now find at most any other grocery stores (even Food Lion and Walmart in some markets) at stupid high prices. It's colloquially referred to as "Whole Paycheck" because yes, it is a funny jab at the fact that you spend much more shopping for groceries there than any other grocery store. That's basically the end of the story. I can buy organic milk, eggs, bread, coffee, apples, bananas, some vegetables, and coconut water from Whole Foods and also Kroger (or Harris Teeter in my market) and I will easily spend at least 10 more dollars for those items at Whole Foods. That's why it's called "Whole Paycheck" -- yes not by "everyone" but by enough people that random internet strangers that never have met before are agreeing that is what it is referred to at times.
      - bena 8y ago
        I know the superficial reason why it's called that. It's done in either self-deprecating jest or as an insult. To consistently use the diminutive rather than the actual name is to signal to others that you are "in" somehow. That you are "the same". Depending on the manner in which you use it, indicates which group you're looking to belong to. Using these terms and also going full alphabet soup, which happens when people talk shop, isn't for the purpose of disseminating information, but to tell people you are informed. If you want people to understand you, you should be clear and simple.
        anothergoogler 8y ago
        "Whole Paycheck" isn't a diminutive, perhaps you were thinking of pejorative? Either way, I think you're reading a bit much into it.
1123581321 8y ago
I agree conditions could be improved, and that we are probably near the peak of anti-union sentiment. I don’t agree unionization will transform these stores. Many grocery store chains are unionized and the jobs are still loathed. I understand the fear is that Amazon will make the job worse than merely loathed and perhaps the status quo union is enough to prevent that. I don’t think a union can change that impression you’re getting when you shop.
- 2bitmachine 8y ago
  > Many grocery store chains are unionized and the jobs are still loathed. Unions aren't about undoing alienation under Capitalism, they're about making Capitalism survivable for laborers.
  - 1123581321 8y ago
    That may be, but the person to which I responded said that they can tell people need unions when they shop. They wouldn’t be able to tell if people are making their budgets meet at home, just whether they seem to enjoy their jobs.
    - 2bitmachine 8y ago
      Respectfully, I think you might be conflating your own class perspective with those of these workers. Most people in low-wage jobs aren’t giving much thought to whether they enjoy them. They’re meanial and unfulfilling, the people working them are aware of this. They’re generally focused on whether or not they can get through the day without too much abuse and make enough to survive. If they seem consistently unhappy, the answer to that is probably no.
FighterMafia 8y ago
"All my experience shopping at grocery chains in the US and elsewhere has impressed upon me that these workers represent the absolute classic, textbook case for unionization." Why? "...an industry that needs a union.." Why? "...more union-friendly in the coming years" Why? Nothing you said is grounded in any actual analysis or verifiable facts. I'd argue that undifferentiated skills that require little education make this an industry poorly suited to unions; Even if you unionize you have little chance of success since most workers are easily replaced by scabs or increased automation. Many workers are also kids in school (speaking from experience -- I used to work in a produce department while studying),and so would not join a union regardless due to the temporary nature of their employment. Butchers and bakers may be an exception, but these are the minority compared to checkout workers, stock boys, or produce workers. So maybe they'd benefit significantly from the fruits of unionization as experienced in more technically complex industries...but they are highly unlikely to receive those fruits.
- Timmah 8y ago
  You don't need verifiable facts to know that retail and warehouse workers are wage slaves. Thats why unions are needed. Need a verifiable fact? Try living on $10/hr and tell me how that works out for you.
  - zdragnar 8y ago
    It worked well enough for me when I was younger, though I wasn't living in SF.
    - u-r-a-scab 8y ago
      younger is the key word there.
      - therealdrag0 8y ago
        What's wrong with providing low wage entry level jobs for young people? It gives them experience. Rising wages would incentivize employees to stay in low-skill jobs for longer instead of moving to higher-skill-higher-pay jobs and letting other young people get those low skill jobs.
vinay427 8y ago
[0]: Whole Foods goes by this nickname in California. Because you spend your... Try their sale items, particularly if you live in an area that already has the Amazon Prime 10% discount on sale items. The sale prices were then usually lower than any other store in the area (SF) where I lived. For people who want specialty items (dietary choices, health conditions, etc.) I haven't really found a better option.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  Depending on what you buy, Whole Foods is sometimes cheaper than the “regular” grocery stores. Between sales and the Amazon card we have, it’s kinda silly for us to shop elsewhere.
  - xref 8y ago
    well you're a software engineer living in California, a fortunate life. maybe you can help America's wage slaves see how "silly" it is to shop somewhere besides Whole Foods
    - village-idiot 8y ago
      It’s silly for me to go to Vons and spend more. Try reading comprehension before you try snark.
krustyburger 8y ago
One of your examples, Trader Joe’s, does not have a union and their employees seem to be relatively content.
- bashallah 8y ago
  Smaller stores, less diverse customers, in the upscale area of the city and the company respects their employees. That’s why they are content. Needless to say, they would also benefit from unionization
krustyburger 8y ago
One of your examples, Trader Joe’s, does not have a union and their employees seem to be relatively content.
- chii 8y ago
  Just because they are content now, doesn't mean they will be in the future. Union is prep for when shit hits the fan.
Animats 8y ago
Safeway is unionized. Lucky is unionized. Why not Amazon Whole Foods?
0x445442 8y ago
>> the US is going to become once again more union-friendly in the coming years. It sometimes surprises people that, as a Libertarian, I applaud workers attempts to unionize. It's really the only way for those who just want to put in an honest days work to combat continually living under a cloud of worry their job/benefits will not be taken from them and given to those with equal skills but who are more desperate to survive. In a truly free market, individual workers should be allowed and, in some cases, encouraged to organized.

by biztos 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

jimmy1 8y ago

Just FYI, everyone calls Whole Foods Whole Paycheck.

judgardner 8y ago
Whole Wallet as well.
Multicomp 8y ago
I disagree. Before today, I'd never heard of this terminology, and I'm next to a WF each workday.
- bena 8y ago
  People have a lot of "clever" diminutives for things they don't like for nebulous reasons they can't actually articulate. It makes me question the thoughts of anyone who consistently uses them in an argument or rant. It feels as if the speaker is more interested in scoring laughs than making any point.
  - jimmy1 8y ago
    > People have a lot of "clever" diminutives for things they don't like for nebulous reasons they can't actually articulate. I shop at Whole Foods quite frequently. There isn't some conspiracy or nefarious intent in calling Whole Foods "Whole Paycheck" -- it's usually used amongst Whole Foods shoppers between themselves when they describe their shopping experience (...in my experience) If it is still tough for you to grasp, I will break it down for you really simply. Whole Foods sells the same shit you can now find at most any other grocery stores (even Food Lion and Walmart in some markets) at stupid high prices. It's colloquially referred to as "Whole Paycheck" because yes, it is a funny jab at the fact that you spend much more shopping for groceries there than any other grocery store. That's basically the end of the story. I can buy organic milk, eggs, bread, coffee, apples, bananas, some vegetables, and coconut water from Whole Foods and also Kroger (or Harris Teeter in my market) and I will easily spend at least 10 more dollars for those items at Whole Foods. That's why it's called "Whole Paycheck" -- yes not by "everyone" but by enough people that random internet strangers that never have met before are agreeing that is what it is referred to at times.
    - bena 8y ago
      I know the superficial reason why it's called that. It's done in either self-deprecating jest or as an insult. To consistently use the diminutive rather than the actual name is to signal to others that you are "in" somehow. That you are "the same". Depending on the manner in which you use it, indicates which group you're looking to belong to. Using these terms and also going full alphabet soup, which happens when people talk shop, isn't for the purpose of disseminating information, but to tell people you are informed. If you want people to understand you, you should be clear and simple.
      - anothergoogler 8y ago
        "Whole Paycheck" isn't a diminutive, perhaps you were thinking of pejorative? Either way, I think you're reading a bit much into it.

1123581321 8y ago

I agree conditions could be improved, and that we are probably near the peak of anti-union sentiment. I don’t agree unionization will transform these stores. Many grocery store chains are unionized and the jobs are still loathed. I understand the fear is that Amazon will make the job worse than merely loathed and perhaps the status quo union is enough to prevent that. I don’t think a union can change that impression you’re getting when you shop.

2bitmachine 8y ago
> Many grocery store chains are unionized and the jobs are still loathed. Unions aren't about undoing alienation under Capitalism, they're about making Capitalism survivable for laborers.
- 1123581321 8y ago
  That may be, but the person to which I responded said that they can tell people need unions when they shop. They wouldn’t be able to tell if people are making their budgets meet at home, just whether they seem to enjoy their jobs.
  - 2bitmachine 8y ago
    Respectfully, I think you might be conflating your own class perspective with those of these workers. Most people in low-wage jobs aren’t giving much thought to whether they enjoy them. They’re meanial and unfulfilling, the people working them are aware of this. They’re generally focused on whether or not they can get through the day without too much abuse and make enough to survive. If they seem consistently unhappy, the answer to that is probably no.

FighterMafia 8y ago

"All my experience shopping at grocery chains in the US and elsewhere has impressed upon me that these workers represent the absolute classic, textbook case for unionization." Why? "...an industry that needs a union.." Why? "...more union-friendly in the coming years" Why? Nothing you said is grounded in any actual analysis or verifiable facts. I'd argue that undifferentiated skills that require little education make this an industry poorly suited to unions; Even if you unionize you have little chance of success since most workers are easily replaced by scabs or increased automation. Many workers are also kids in school (speaking from experience -- I used to work in a produce department while studying),and so would not join a union regardless due to the temporary nature of their employment. Butchers and bakers may be an exception, but these are the minority compared to checkout workers, stock boys, or produce workers. So maybe they'd benefit significantly from the fruits of unionization as experienced in more technically complex industries...but they are highly unlikely to receive those fruits.

Timmah 8y ago
You don't need verifiable facts to know that retail and warehouse workers are wage slaves. Thats why unions are needed. Need a verifiable fact? Try living on $10/hr and tell me how that works out for you.
- zdragnar 8y ago
  It worked well enough for me when I was younger, though I wasn't living in SF.
  - u-r-a-scab 8y ago
    younger is the key word there.
    - therealdrag0 8y ago
      What's wrong with providing low wage entry level jobs for young people? It gives them experience. Rising wages would incentivize employees to stay in low-skill jobs for longer instead of moving to higher-skill-higher-pay jobs and letting other young people get those low skill jobs.

vinay427 8y ago

[0]: Whole Foods goes by this nickname in California. Because you spend your... Try their sale items, particularly if you live in an area that already has the Amazon Prime 10% discount on sale items. The sale prices were then usually lower than any other store in the area (SF) where I lived. For people who want specialty items (dietary choices, health conditions, etc.) I haven't really found a better option.

village-idiot 8y ago
Depending on what you buy, Whole Foods is sometimes cheaper than the “regular” grocery stores. Between sales and the Amazon card we have, it’s kinda silly for us to shop elsewhere.
- xref 8y ago
  well you're a software engineer living in California, a fortunate life. maybe you can help America's wage slaves see how "silly" it is to shop somewhere besides Whole Foods
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    It’s silly for me to go to Vons and spend more. Try reading comprehension before you try snark.

krustyburger 8y ago

One of your examples, Trader Joe’s, does not have a union and their employees seem to be relatively content.

bashallah 8y ago
Smaller stores, less diverse customers, in the upscale area of the city and the company respects their employees. That’s why they are content. Needless to say, they would also benefit from unionization

krustyburger 8y ago

One of your examples, Trader Joe’s, does not have a union and their employees seem to be relatively content.

chii 8y ago
Just because they are content now, doesn't mean they will be in the future. Union is prep for when shit hits the fan.

Animats 8y ago

Safeway is unionized. Lucky is unionized. Why not Amazon Whole Foods?

0x445442 8y ago

>> the US is going to become once again more union-friendly in the coming years. It sometimes surprises people that, as a Libertarian, I applaud workers attempts to unionize. It's really the only way for those who just want to put in an honest days work to combat continually living under a cloud of worry their job/benefits will not be taken from them and given to those with equal skills but who are more desperate to survive. In a truly free market, individual workers should be allowed and, in some cases, encouraged to organized.