11 ms·

It really does suck. I have 20 years of professional software development on keyboards, the last 2 years purely on the 2017 MBP, if that in any way “qualifies”

• jypepin 8y ago
  I don't understand how people can trash so much the keyboard and then say the trackpad is amazing. It's way too big and my palms keep touching/clicking on it while I type, which breaks my flow all the time, especially when I'm coding in like vim and trigger unwanted keys.
  • hyperpower 8y ago
    I had this problem too back when my work laptop was an MBP. Just disable the mouse in your vimrc, you'll be better off for it.
    • jypepin 8y ago
      didn't know I could do that :facepalm: thanks for the hint
  • deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  • GuiA 8y ago
    Ergonomics are a weird thing. There’s a huge variation in human anatomy and preferences. What is amazing for you will be terrible for someone else. You can invest a lot of man hours into trying to come up with a solution that works well for the majority (actually most tech hardware companies invest very little in that), but you’re never going to make everyone happy. Especially highly technical users.
    • dagw 8y ago
      There’s a huge variation in human anatomy and preferences. There's also long term vs short term effects. Your personal preference might feel great for you right now, but will lead to joint and back pain 5-10 years down the road. While the 'correct' way may feel highly unnatural right now, but may very well save you from much pain and anguish at some point in the future.
  • boubiyeah 8y ago
    I agree the trackpad is unnecessarily large. It works much better than the competition though.
    • brennebeck 8y ago
      Exactly. A bit too large but still by far the best trackpad out there.
    • lylecubed 8y ago
      "Better than other trackpads on the market" and "the trackpad is great" are two different statements.
    • splintercell 8y ago
      I have a question to those Macbook users who find its trackpad far superior to the competition, does the trackpad behaves the same way with other OS, like with Ubuntu? The reason why I asked because when I installed Linux on my 2012 Macbook air, it's trackpad turned into the normie trackpad instead of the super awesome Macbook trackpad. In other words, how much of Macbook's trackpad is in it's software?
      • davidandgoliath 8y ago
        > In other words, how much of Macbook's trackpad is in it's software? A tonne. Compare how the trackpad acts in the restore system, and how it acts in MacOS: Two very different realms of quality. Regardless, lenovo & dell's (x1 & xps) trackpads are on par with the macbook '15's trackpad. Apple has lost that advantage.
    • jypepin 8y ago
      well works great need to include "does not do things when I don't intend". I have normal hands size so I can't see how other people don't face this problem
  • TheAceOfHearts 8y ago
    I had a similar experience when I first bought my Macbook Pro 2017, but eventually I got used to its size and grew to like the larger trackpad. However, when I switch to my old Macbook Pro 2013, they keyboard feels so much nicer to me that I feel frustrated with my purchase.
  • toomanybeersies 8y ago
    Somehow I don't have a problem with the touchpad while typing, I guess different people hold their hands while typing in different ways.
  • drcongo 8y ago
    Agreed. I had to put electrical tape across the top of mine (and the Touch Bar). https://hackernoon.com/i-tried-to-fix-my-macbook-pros-touch-bar-43cc22fca932 https://hackernoon.com/i-tried-to-fix-my-macbook-pros-touch-...
    • jypepin 8y ago
      oh good one, maybe I'll try the same!
• boubiyeah 8y ago
  I feel exactly the same way. Just bought the new 2018 model and I can't shake the feeling they're completely off-track. The trackpad and screen are excellent, the OS is okay but boy, that thinness chasing is so dumb! I make many more typos on this keyboard than on any other. There are only dumb thunderbolt ports. The touchbar is the dumbest gadget I've ever seen (RIP physical escape key) and it even crashed on me keeping the sound control stuck to the maximum. Considering the price of these machines, I feel they're really playing with fire.
  • Chris_Chambers 8y ago
    At this point it can be said with 100% certainty that Apple is being sabotaged by a high ranking double agent employee working for competing interests who gained Tim Cook’s trust and access to his ear. Tim Cook is a gullible imbecile, this has been clear since 2014 when someone somehow convinced him that forcing a U2 album into everyone’s iTunes library without their consent was a good idea. His intuition for whether something might be cringe-inducingly idiotic is completely nonexistent, and someone inside the company who shouldn’t be there is exploiting this fact to the best of their ability. Apple will continue to rot from the inside until Cook is replaced with someone less easily manipulated.
  • whywhywhywhy 8y ago
    This doesn’t get mentioned much but they wrecked the physical media keys because of the touchbar. You can no longer control iTunes globally, the media keys only work with the focused app because that’s what the touch bar does. So if a web page is playing a muted ad with sound your media keys wont do anything if you try to pause iTunes.
• amelius 8y ago
  > The trackpad is amazing though. Perhaps you can transform the trackpad into a keyboard using software ...
• martin-adams 8y ago
  For occasional use I don't mind it. I mostly work on an external keyboard. Two things that do frustrate me - the arrow keys - it's like playing finger twister. That aside, the sharpness of the frame actually digs into my wrist - a little rounded would have made such a difference. If it weren't for the Mac ecosystem and that only Apple can produce hardware, I think they would fix this.
• w1nt3rmu4e 8y ago
  It's been a while since I used mine since it was destroyed after falling 18 inches onto a wood floor (corner bent, screen connection shorted) but I'm pretty sure the Macbook 12 keyboard is worse. Maybe by a millimeter or so. There is absolutely no way in hell a keyboard like this should be found on a laptop favored by software engineers. I'm not sure if Apple is seeing the writing on the wall here, but why not just launch a developer line? Make it thicker, heavier, give it more battery, a keyboard with a proper amount of travel, larger keys, more keys, whatever. Ditch the retarded touch bar. More ram. More config options. More ports. If they want to keep topping themselves on largely meaningless metrics and/or aesthetic self indulgence then by all means do so -- sell those to the rest of the market. The bulk of the market will buy the pretty ones. Give me an uglier one that isn't so awful to actually use. Or, seriously, start dying the death of a thousand cuts. I'm really close to pulling out of the Apple ecosystem and retooling for other work. I'm sure I'm not the only one. What? Don't care about the people who work on iOS/macOS software professionally? Don't need us? Why don't you go talk to Microsoft about that.
  • code_duck 8y ago
    I already decided to not buy a new MacBook, and now i’m making a similar decision with the iPhone after 6 years. My main issue is instability of the OS. I could list issues for an hour, but it also doesn’t help that I can’t reliably connect remove photos on my phone via Linux, since apparently Apple changes important things about the connection protocol every 3-6 months. The instability of spellcheck is shocking too - ever since 10.5, it mishandles edited text in a very nonfunctional way. If Apple is going to make iOS buggy and second rate, there goes my main reason to use an iPhone. Same with Mac hardware. Those are the parts that are supposed to be the good things about Apple - iOS and MacBook hardware quality were my reasons to buy their products.
    • davidf18 8y ago
      You should use Apple with Apple. The more different vendors you use, the additional complexity you introduce. Unless there is a compelling reason to use Linux, why not use MacBook and iPhone? That is what I've done since 2012 (when Verizon offered iPhone) and have had a reasonable user experience. iPhones offer much better security that Brand X. In store support for the units if needed. Also, regarding keyboards, the MacBook keyboard reviewed is the 2017, and it has been replaced by an improved keyboard on the 2018 model. It would be much more helpful to review the 2018 model keyboard. I used it in the store and it is an improvement over the 2017 models.
• cpcat 8y ago
  Apple can do what it wants as long as it has a monopoly over operating systems. There is nothing like masOS out there. Personally i think the real problem is not the butterfly keys, it's the shrunken space between the keys. The arrow keys on the new MacBook Pros are the design fail of the century. I can't tell up from down without looking. Other laptops did it before and i was grateful that Apple didn't copy them, until now.
  • colejohnson66 8y ago
    > Apple can do what it wants as long as it has a monopoly over operating systems. Except they don’t?
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • cpcat 8y ago
      In the context of laptops. But then many people have never used a decent laptop and still comment
  • magicbuzz 8y ago
    There is nothing like masOS. But there certainly are alternatives to MacOS. One of which starts with L.
    • Rjevski 8y ago
      An alternative on which you’d waste more time tinkering with it and trying to get it to work than do real work. Oh and you get an inconsistent and absolutely awful UX as a bonus.
      • indymike 8y ago
        Linux GUI is inconsistent. Inside the terminal, Linux has tab completion for command parameters and modifiers and no need to remap the keyboard so the alt and function keys behave. Additionally, you'll spend a lot of time on a mac writing scripts and such do deal with the difference between your Mac dev environment and your Linux production environment (if you do web dev). Honestly, being able to build for iOS and hardware quality were why Macs have been popular with developers. That keyboard is really terrible... so much so I did not buy a mac this time... And I really love Apple's product.
• varjag 8y ago
  Coding professionally since 1997 on God knows how many keyboards. Now using a custom built mechanical one on the workstation at work. However the butterfly 2017 MB keyboard feels entirely fine. If anything, it feels better than the "classic" mushy MBP keyboard. But dunno maybe I have low standards.
  • piva00 8y ago
    I'm on the same camp, coding professionally since 2005, had a few mechanical keyboards and I've swapped my work laptop from a MBP 2015 to the 2018 and had no problems with the keyboard so far, like you I actually like it more than my old MBP mushy keyboard. As a disclaimer: I have had at least 4 iterations of MBPs before starting at my current company and getting a 2015.
  • inferiorhuman 8y ago
    > If anything, it feels better than the "classic" mushy MBP keyboard. But dunno maybe I have low standards. The previous keyboard wasn't great either, but at least there was a little travel, the layout doesn't suck, and it's not nearly as delicate as the butterfly keyboard.
    • xvector 8y ago
      Apple seems to have fixed the issues with the keyboard being delicate.
      • steve_adams_86 8y ago
        We need a year or so to be sure. It took about that long before my last MBP started getting stuck keys and losing keys. For what it's worth, I type like anyone else does - but I do it a lot. That keyboard was in terrible shape by year 2. I hope the new keyboards are fixed... I have to use one for work (it's issued by my employer). It feels weird to not want a brand new Apple laptop. I was just so disappointed by that keyboard and the touch bar though.
• dade_ 8y ago
  The touchpad on my new Lenovo X1 is great enough that the only thing that I miss about my Macs is the incredible resale value.
• nradov 8y ago
  Do many developers actually use laptop keyboards for coding? From what I've observed, most have a real keyboard on their desks and only use the laptop keyboard in meetings and such.
  • brennebeck 8y ago
    At the office I have a real keyboard (das keyboard; edit: I mention the name meant as a reference to my style preference, but definitely would recommend it as well), but I can’t use that at home while in bed, etc. (which is where a laptop shines).
  • tdfx 8y ago
    I do 100% on my development work on a 2015 MacBook Pro. I work remotely from different places so I value the consistency in my work flow (same keyboard, same trackpad). I would've normally already purchased a new MBP this year but I'm actively considering alternatives for the first time in 8 years due to these keyboard issues and the idiotic touchbar issue. Currently looking at Surface Pro and Thinkpad X1.
  • Lio 8y ago
    I do. I like to have a compact laptop directly under the centre of a larger monitor. I touch type and want to keep everything symmetrical around a central point. I avoid using mice or keyboards with numeric keypads because I try to reduce the amount of off one sided movements. I try to drive everything from the keyboard and from the homerow if I can. If I really have to use a mouse, moving my right hand a few centimetres to use a trackpad is, for me, much more ergonomic than a larger movement to reach past a numeric keypad for a mouse.
• SilverSlash 8y ago
  You like the trackpad? I find it excessively large. I was typing on someone else's MBP today and I kept making unintentional clicks because of the trackpad. Of course, the typing experience was awful as well. Extremely stupid move by apple. Wonder if they thought about UX for programmers at all.
• temporallobe 8y ago
  I have this exact MBP and really love it for casual use and music production, but I think it would be a huge pain for serious programming tasks.
• teh_klev 8y ago
  > The trackpad is amazing though Just wait until Apple decide to "improve" that.