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My big issue is that in the places that electric cars make the most sense (cities) it’s hardest to own them. What am I going to do, run a really long extension
by kasey_junk 8y ago
My big issue is that in the places that electric cars make the most sense (cities) it’s hardest to own them. What am I going to do, run a really long extension cord from my condo to the random parking spot I found around the block?
- tomjakubowski 8y agoDoesn't seem all that hard to solve. My city, Los Angeles, reserves some street parking spots for electric vehicles and has installed outlets on the curb for those spaces. Also, if you live in a city, unless you "reverse commute" to the suburbs, you probably won't drive enough miles regularly that you'd need to charge every night anyway. Give it a fast charge every few days in a commercial garage while you run errands.
- kasey_junk 8y agoWho pays for the power? What % of spots are electrified? If we hit an inflection point how fast can they change that % and how does the answer to the question about payment change?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- thinkcontext 8y agoThe utility or a wholesaler will markup the power to pay for it. They should jump at the chance to grow at the expense of big oil.
- mikekchar 8y agoInterestingly, I went to a Nissan dealer in Japan (where I live) to ask the exact same question. They have a deal where you can spend the equivalent of about $30 per month and you can go to the dealer to charge your car (unlimited charging). It takes about half an hour and they have a waiting room with free coffee and a TV. Although I'm worried that they don't have anywhere near the capacity to handle the volume if it gets popular (imagine waiting for 2 or 3 people ahead of you...), for the moment it seems doable. As my wife can't live without her car (I don't drive), we're seriously thinking about it.
- ioquatix 8y agoI walked past one of these in Japan and it even had a really nice kids play area, a cot/baby sleeping area, a TV area with consoles, etc!
- kasey_junk 8y agoHow excited would you be to see those at a gas station? It implies a wait time I’d be concerned about.
- mikekchar 8y agoCertainly it's a different way of doing things. Although this thread is about the common person, for me the numbers actually work out relatively well. The new Leaf has about a 400 km range. My wife drives just under 40 km a day (I wish I could convince her to get an electric scooter instead :-P). You don't want to drive it down to empty, so I guess we could get away with charging it once a week. At least in our household, that would be easy to fit in. My wife currently spends about $30 a week on gasoline (it requires high octane and it burns stupid amounts of fuel and gasoline in Japan is stupidly expensive). That's $120 per month, so she would be saving $90 per month on their charging scheme. In exchange she has to wait 2 hours a month (and organise refuelling the vehicle about 1.5 times more than she does currently). So, let's say $45 an hour post taxes (I think her marginal tax rate including health and pension is about 24%). So it's a good deal if she's able to avoid waiting for other people too much... And assuming Nissan continues their deal for the life of the car (seems unlikely, but by that point hopefully we'll be able to plug in at home). The main thing that bugs me is spending $30-40K to drive 20 km out and back every day. It's complete insanity, and you can talk all you want about driving a "green car", the earth is not going to take back the carbon required to build that car any time soon :-( Unfortunately my wife (who is pretty normal in this respect) can not quite grasp that logic.
- newfocogi 8y agoThis situation is when employers providing chargers in company parking will become a notable work benefit.
- CharlesW 8y agoThis. I've owned an electric car for 6+ months, and have literally never charged it at home.
- kasey_junk 8y agoI commute via public transit, my employer doesn’t offer parking.
- rorykoehler 8y agoI work from home. My employer doesn't have an office in the country i live in.
- tonyedgecombe 8y agoThat's another way to solve the problem.
- FullyFunctional 8y agoAt my previous job, my boss was an EV enthusiast and installed four chargers (at a time where only one person had an EV). I charged for free for six years and when I left there were ~ 8 EVs competing for the spots. I know for a fact that our chargers was a factor in purchase of some of those.
- tokyodude 8y agoYou won't like this idea but in Japan you're required to show you have a place to park your car before you're allowed to buy one. If there was a market for parking spaces with power it seems like they'd start showing up pretty quickly.
- kasey_junk 8y agoI love this idea. With one problem. It doesn’t capture the externalities of living in the sub/ex urbs correctly. Precisely where it’s hard to park is where people are living most environmentally friendly (density). Paired with a dramatic energy tax I’m good with it.
- crzwdjk 8y agoIt captures the spatial externalities, as opposed to the US system of minimum parking requirements and on-street parking, which sets aside valuable urban space that could be used for more housing (or stores or whatever) and wastes considerable amounts of capital (underground garages are very expensive) on making it easier to drive and not actually produce the environmental benefits of living in a city.
- sfifs 8y agoWell the obvious answer is parking spots will need to get electrified. Most new condos where I live already come with enough electrical provision pre-planned to electrify parking spots if needed and old ones are considering adding provisions. Household wiring will anyway not have enough current capacity to support charging, so smart plug based billing will likely be the way these things will go. Since electric cars ARE becoming cheaper economically for city use, this likely WILL happen. Accelerating the trend will be the fact that property prices will go up/down depending on availability of electric charging - so big property owners will start making these investments since there's no lack of capital among them. Basically, these tipping point things don't necessarily happen because of "activism" but happen when economics cause a runaway effect (think spread of mobile connectivity for another example) - so to that extent Tesla is pushing in the right direction by trying to get economics right.
- jblow 8y ago> Household wiring will anyway not have enough current capacity to support charging citation needed
- rlkf 8y agoNo need, because it is simply untrue: Electric vehicles can charge on anything from 1-ph 8A 240V, to 3-ph 32A 400V, all of which can easily be provided by common urban household wiring.
- ced 8y agoThey make a lot of sense for shared ownership. In my city, there's a cooperative running a fleet of cars, similar to bike sharing programs, with dedicated parking spots that have electricity.
- kasey_junk 8y agoThis seems like the only viable option but suffers from obvious problems; - traffic is bursty - why would car makers incentivise this?
- ced 8y agoWell, in Montreal at least, efficient public transit during rush hour + shared bikes + shared cars for off-rush-hours is a very nice combination. > why would car makers incentivise this The cooperative just bought vehicles. What can car makers do about it?
- srtjstjsj 8y agoIf you have a car in the city, you should park in your building's parking garage, not in the street. The problem is that residential street parking is overused. In the street, you charge at a meter, the same place you put in your payment. http://www.rolecserv.com/ev-charging/product/EV-Charging-Street-Light http://www.rolecserv.com/ev-charging/product/EV-Charging-Str...
- bhk 8y ago> you should park in your building's parking garage, not in the street Let them eat cake, in other words?
- bryanlarsen 8y agoThey're currently eating free cake. Those parking spots cost the city a lot of money directly and indirectly (some estimates say $100 a month).
- kasey_junk 8y agoBut I can’t pay $100 a month for an electrified spot so...
- perl4ever 8y agoMy apartment building has a central garage with a place you can charge your car (probably) for free. Unfortunately someone (out of a few hundred) is already using it.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- adrianN 8y ago100$ a month is probably on the low end. A parking spot is at least eight square meters, probably more like nine. Rent here in Berlin is about 10€/m^2/month (so pretty cheap as far as big cities go). Typical houses have three to four stories, so that parking spot could be 24-36m^2 of housing.