7 ms·

I'm Wil Wheaton. I Live with Chronic Depression and Anxiety. I Am Not Ashamed

154 points by aritraghosh007 8y ago

comboy 8y ago
So what do you guys think: hunter-gatherers, then feudal farmers and then now - how does median/average suffering per capita compare? We all have better luxuries now than kings had hundreds of years ago. Less famine, life threatening situations and so on. But we do have a way to compare ourselves with best parts of lives of many interesting people around the world. We have antibiotics and painkillers, but we also seem to have way more options and anxiety. I'd assume there's much less physical pain. But what about suffering that can be caused by things like depression? Do you think it's about the same, much better, slightly worse?
- perfmode 8y ago
  i don’t think we are anywhere close to having the requisite tools for such a comparison. the subjective conscious experience is complicated.
- SteveNuts 8y ago
  Back during WW1, what we now know as PTSD was called "Shell Shock". I wonder what the depression and anxiety rates would be if we used modern psychiatric diagnosis techniques against say, a WW1 soldier, or maybe a medieval peasant.
  - graeme 8y ago
    Given the research on blast induced brain damage, shell shock probably was significantly caused due to physical damage.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- jacobolus 8y ago
  Peasants in a feudal society are constantly getting abused by the “nobles”. That is: beaten, robbed, property destroyed, forced into involuntary labor, tortured, raped, killed, often just for looking at one of the nobles the wrong way or for sport. Life was precarious, and everyone was constantly stressed about it. Not to mention famine was common, and parents would e.g. go hungry for long stretches of time so their kids could subsist on half-rations of nutrient-poor staples. In such an environment, domestic violence is common, and it is difficult to make any kind of long-term plans. You just try to survive day by day. Then there’s also literally backbreaking labor, poor sanitation, poor healthcare, parasites, the equivalent of smoking a few packs a day by sleeping next to a wood fire, infant mortality of >50%, and so on. Source: this stuff was still rampant in the 1960s in rural southern Mexico, and still happens today in many countries around the world. You can still interview people who grew up with that kind of terror.
- slg 8y ago
  We have the luxury of operating at much higher levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs than generations past. I would much rather worry about whether my life truly matters than worry about whether my life will immediately come to an end if I can't kill or grow enough food. Depression was probably always an issue, today we just have the privilege of it being the most pressing problem for many of us.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > We have the luxury of operating at much higher levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs than generations past. IIRC, there's is strong reason to discount Maslow's heirarchy as an explanation of anything across different times and cultures, as the number, identity, and order of groups of needs had been shown to not consistently match his and to vary both culturally and, within a culture, in response to changing circumstances.
    - sizzle 8y ago
      His work was never peer reviewed if I recall so it is suspect. Can anyone provide more info on the validity of his work and research methodology?
  - Fricken 8y ago
    Many of the most memorable, meaningful, and exhilarating experiences in my life are derived from times that were desperate, physically gruelling and dangerous. I think it's what we're designed for. A ship is safe in harbour but that's not what ships are for. The periods of depression in my life were quite safe and comfortable, and strongly associated with wondering if my life really matters, and you can't think about that too hard because when you do, you recognize that, no, your life is actually pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things. Hunter Gatherers didn't have that problem, because their whole world revolved around their one little tribe, and at that scale, yes, their actions and choices really did matter.
    - jackweirdy 8y ago
      > A ship is safe in harbour but that's not what ships are for. What a powerful little phrase I’d never heard before. Thanks for sharing this!
- TomMckenny 8y ago
  It's nice there are some treatments now, however modest. Also nice is that the illness is sufficiently accepted that a guy who works on TV can talk about it publicly (though perhaps uniquely and I suppose with some risk)
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  Hunter gatherers didn't necessarily suffer that much. Sure, they faced a lot of environmental challenges like bugs, a lack of air conditioning, hunger, and serious diseases like malaria and smallpox, but they arguably had much easier social customs than we do now. There were no clothes, no laws, no social signaling for the most part. If you didn't like your tribe, I'm sure you were free to run away and eat berries in the forest and try to figure it out yourself. These days being homeless is illegal and they face a lot of harassment. You are forced to conform and commute to a job to pay for a bed to sleep in.
  - krapp 8y ago
    >There were no clothes, no laws, no social signaling for the most part. If you didn't like your tribe, I'm sure you were free to run away and eat berries in the forest and try to figure it out yourself. What archaeological or anthropological evidence are you basing these assumptions on? Why would hunter gatherers not wear clothes, when they can offer useful protection against the elements? Why would they not have common customs or taboos ("laws?") at least at the level of families and clans when even gorillas have some semblance of it? It seems as if you're just assuming the past was some idyllic and anarchist inversion of modernity.
    - trgv 8y ago
      I agree with your comment. > Why would hunter gatherers not wear clothes, when they can offer useful protection against the elements? I was curious about this and looked it up. Apparently there was some period of time during which humanity did not wear clothes. This has been determined by looking at the DNA of hair lice versus clothes lice and seeing where they diverged: http://news.ufl.edu/archive/2011/01/uf-study-of-lice-dna-shows-humans-first-wore-clothes-170000-years-ago.html http://news.ufl.edu/archive/2011/01/uf-study-of-lice-dna-sho...
      - tvmalsv 8y ago
        That went in a direction I didn't expect! Very interesting, thanks :)
- clumsysmurf 8y ago
  I think we exchanged physical suffering for emotional suffering, but maybe its about the same.
- manfredo 8y ago
  This is just my personal perspective for the most part, but I think a lot of the anxiety I feel stems from innate, primal survival instincts that have no real need anymore in my life position. For instance even though I could support myself and probably a small family on my current compensation, but I still feel the urge to get a raise. I still worry about my motorcycle getting stolen off the street even though it's a leisure vehicle and is a used, small bike that costs less than what I make in a week. Neither failing to get a good raise nor having my motorcycle stolen has any significant impact on my basic needs (heck, the latter would statistically improve it), but I think a primal urge to acquire and keep resources fueling my anxiety over these things. These urges used to be necessary - the cave man that didn't worry about feeding himself and didn't worry about having his stuff stolen probably had a tougher time surviving - but I think the urges remain but there's no real outlet in many developed parts of the world. As an addendum, I think a good way to mitigate this is to find things that satisfy these urges when possible, and be serenely introspective about the things you can't. When I stress out about material resource, I calculate how long I can live comfortably with no income and try to tangibly see hoe wide my safety net is (granted, this is not something that may result in reduced stress for everyone). But some things just need to be accepted as a part of myself. For instance when I feel the temptation to sleep with other women I just have to accept that this a part of an innate instinct to impregnate as many women as possible, instilled through hundreds of millennia of evolution in a society vastly different from the one I currently live in.
  - gascan 8y ago
    I still worry about my motorcycle getting stolen off the street even though it's a leisure vehicle and is a used, small bike that costs less than what I make in a week. Dude, that one's easy. Look at your cheap crappy bike and laugh. "Hah! What kind of self respecting thief would even bother stealing a crappy bike like this?"
    - manfredo 8y ago
      That's essentially what I do. I deliberately park it next to more expensive motorcycles. As my MSF instructor told me, "By far the best theft deterrent is to park next to the Harley-Davidson".
- petermcneeley 8y ago
  The notion that we live better than the kings of old is absurd. Even materially one can ask Where is my castle? where are my tracks of land? where are my ships and armies? Where is my gold and gems? Where are my servants and slaves?
  - gascan 8y ago
    Here is your tea, sugar, salt, and spices each for a pittance. Here are your 600 thread count sheets, your satin for a song, your comfortable house that heats & cools itself. Your telephone and computer, which do the work of an army of couriers & mathematicians. Your Netflix subscription, which can keep you endlessly entertained. And, if you want ships and armies, you can always join the military and pursue a command. Remember, many kings of old were not just politicians with military powers bestowed on a purple cushion, they were war figures who rose to the top of the bloodshed. Think Andrew Jackson, Washington, Grant.
    - petermcneeley 8y ago
      Perhaps my tastes are too low but for food there is nothing better than cooked meat of which the kings had in abundance. Netflix is a (virtual) substitution for real drama, real romance , and real violence. If your gonna count the netflix you might as well just say The Matrix is material utopia.
      - gascan 8y ago
        OK, but you can eat fresh corn-fed beef, grass-fed beef, chicken, bison, venison, kangaroo, turkey, tuna, salmon, halibut, duck, swordfish, pork, lamb, sheep, eel, clam, oyster, mussel, lobster, crab, ... shall I go on?
        petermcneeley 8y ago
        I myself have a pretty basic palate but the kings did enjoy quite a variety of foods. http://www.picturebritain.com/2012/11/whatdidhenryVIIIeat.html http://www.picturebritain.com/2012/11/whatdidhenryVIIIeat.ht... Either way the point is that Materially the kings were exceedingly wealthy and if you just translate what they had to today they still remain so.
- dominotw 8y ago
  > hunter-gatherers, then feudal farmers and then now - how does median/average suffering per capita compare? I think as a man you have evolutionary pressure to spread your seed as much as possible, that pressure manifests itself as depression. I don't think that has changed.
- ASalazarMX 8y ago
  There is a cartoon where a scientist travels to the future and finds the world has become an utopia. A friendly host shows the scientist the wonders of his world, and then says something like "no one is poor or hungry anymore, we have everything to cover everyone's needs, even a beautiful house for each". The scientists asks "Why not two houses?". The end panel is the scientist getting back into his machine while a nuclear mushroom looms in the background. My point is, people doesn't seem to be made to be fully happy. Yes, we enjoy the high of happiness, but soon we come down and take it for granted, then something else we don't have is what will make us happy. I think this an asset, what makes us human and what encourages us to strive for something more. This is also a liability, as we easily lose perspective and purpose.
  - kqr2 8y ago
    Do you have a link or name of the cartoon?
    - luca3v 8y ago
      SMBC: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/time-machine https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/time-machine
      - kqr2 8y ago
        Thanks for the link!
      - ASalazarMX 8y ago
        This was the one. I still think the version in my head is better.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- coldtea 8y ago
  >We all have better luxuries now than kings had hundreds of years ago. If by luxuries we mean trinkets, then yes. But power is also a luxury, and kings had it. A nice house is also a luxury, and kings had the best (and actually, several). Free time is the biggest luxury of all, and kings had it (what with personal cooks, a ton of attending stuff, etc). The ability to influence your society is a luxury, and kings had it in spades. A sense of purpose is also a luxury, and kings had it handed to them (e.g. leading their nation, etc). Luxury is also comparative, and you don't miss what you don't even know (e.g. a 16th century king wouldn't miss not having internet). On that comparative level, to their peers, kings were above everybody else. So, yeah, they didn't have Advil and iPhones, but their lives could be very much better than someone who had.
- gspetr 8y ago
  Wheaton needs to lift heavy. Exercise is known to cure male depression and many people on HN (myself included) can testify to it's effectiveness and the positive outcome in their lives.
monksy 8y ago
This article strikes me as partially honest and raw and then the other to be very planned and calculated. Let's get this out now: I'm glad he finally sought help, and that he's getting it. The things about this article that bug me: 1. He starts off with the article with a "trigger warning." The title is about depression and anxiety. Having a 'trigger warning' is either insulting to the reader, or it's a weird posturing thing. Seems a little offputting when he's trying to write about his own experience and then in a way has to apologize for it. 2. He talks about his huge accomplishments and then he discounts himself due to his 'identity': " I have run out of space in my office for the awards I’ve received for my work, and as a white, heterosexual, cisgender man in America, I live life on the lowest difficulty setting — with the Celebrity cheat enabled." (Why is that even important to talk about your sexuality, race, or even standing... if he's trying to do a raw and honest appeal this seems a little off to me) This topic has nothing to do with those categories. Leave it for a later addressing of remarks to discredit due to those attributes (this is an issue that can affect anyone, even Trump, [insert who you hate]) > My life is, by every objective measurement, very very good. Clearly not if you're suffering. 3. The apology to his mother. Again why is he apologizing for what he's going for? This to me seems like: 1. an improper sharing of a message to a close family member 2. a projection of his relationship to his mother, etc. This just seems really weird with respect of the audience of the talk. EDIT: If you want to communicate how it's affected people close to you.. tell the audience. I spoke with my mother on this. Her concerns were x,y,z. That would give the audience a template of how to do the same if they feel it's needed. 4. The ending which he's trying to become an activist. He's trying to call for political influence and then trying to endorse organizations. At the end of this, I'm left wondering: Why did he write this? What does this piece mean? It goes from being very personal and revealing to impersonal and political/advocating. Why not split both of those up. Let the next question be: "How can we address that? Give the audience a way to say "I'm seeing these things.. what can I do?" Is this a vehicle for him to talk about "change" he wants to see?
- dmitri20 8y ago
  > My life is, by every objective measurement, very very good. I found this statement silly too. He's getting older. His body is slowly deteriorating. His opportunities are dwindling. His best days are probably behind him. That's reason enough for depression by itself.
anjc 8y ago
Is there any evidence that talking about depression openly, or talk-type therapies, help to reduce depression? My experience of colleagues talking openly about these things is that it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle, and ultimately makes things worse.
- AceJohnny2 8y ago
  I think you're only thinking that because they're letting it be more visible in order to get support. The alternative is that they put on a mask to function in society, because they don't want to be a burden, all the while dying inside... Until they unexpectedly disappear, because they've committed suicide.
  - anjc 8y ago
    Essentially I'm questioning this common idea that talking about depression will alleviate it, and maybe prevent suicide. I'm not saying that it doesn't, I'm just asking for evidence that it does. My anecdotal experience is that people who talk about it, solidify it into their outward personality. I'm not sure it's a good thing, but other posters seem to have had good outcomes.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  I think it depends on the individual. Sometimes talking about these things helps, sometimes it doesn't. It generally helps me.
- phren0logy 8y ago
  Relevant background:I'm a psychiatrist. "Talking about it" and "talking with a therapist" are different, and a good therapist using an evidence-based approach to therapy is effective. Evidence-based therapies are different than "chatting with a buddy." That said, finding a good and well-trained therapist is often difficult. In approximately 10% of people, psychotherapy makes things worse rather than better. Sleep hygiene and regular exercise are always a good idea, and in some cases medication is worth considering.
  - 8y ago
dmitri20 8y ago
> as a white, heterosexual, cisgender man in America, I live life on the lowest difficulty setting — with the Celebrity cheat enabled And yet men kill themselves at a much higher rate than women, which empirically suggests (in the west) that the equivalent female difficulty setting is actually lower. Few dispute this argument when applied to the higher suicide rates among LGBT people.
sergiotapia 8y ago
>And as we were walking I just started to cry and she asked me, “what’s wrong?” >I said “I just realized that I don’t feel bad and I just realized that I’m not existing, I’m living.” I can't imagine a bigger turn off for your wife than this. Yikes! You're supposed to be the rock dude, save those thoughts for the lads. Then again this is the guy who asked his wife to lick some guys face while he's posing in the background all scrunched up. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMToPQVWUAAD0h2.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMToPQVWUAAD0h2.jpg - Pathetic!
- minism 8y ago
  What the fuck?
  - oopsman88 8y ago
    He raises a good point. I've read some of this guy's stuff on Twitter, it's really pathetic. No wonder he's depressed if he lets himself be treated like this.
- fizwhiz 8y ago
  Ssshh, it's 2018.
  - sergiotapia 8y ago
    It being $CURRENT_YEAR doesn't change a thing, there are universal truths.
- sctb 8y ago
  This is not a civil and substantive comment. You should know that we're here for better. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
20160216 8y ago
This guy has a lot of stories about how Shatner was rude to him without cause. Well he has turned into shatner and is rude without cause to many people, including myself. I now think his real psychological problem is that he’s a sociopathic narcissist and this entire article is just manipulation. Wow, downvoted and flagged Within literally 5 seconds of posting. Only certain opinions are allowed here?
- dang 8y ago
  Personal attacks and name calling aren't opinions, and aren't allowed here. Please don't do this again, regardless of how you feel about someone or how badly they behaved. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
WilliamEdward 8y ago
Is there any progress being made with regards to gut microbiomes causing depression? it's such a new area of research that it has the potential to bring out a cure for depression if we figure out why it's caused. I don't believe it's some un-crackable enigma living in the mind, because neuroplasticity is very very easy to change.
symlinkk 8y ago
I'm glad a celebrity is willing to come out and talk about this stuff, it makes me feel less insane for suffering through it myself. But there's not much actual advice here. It sounds like the main thing that helped him were pills. Also: > as a white, heterosexual, cisgender man in America, I live life on the lowest difficulty setting What a pathetic, and wholly incorrect thing to say.
- rhexs 8y ago
  I wonder how much, if any, of depression or anxiety could be linked to having such a low opinion of what you achieved. Whether or not his assertion is true, I don't understand how that would help anyone's psyche.
- camdenlock 8y ago
  I suffer from depression and anxiety. I take medication, and it helps big time. There's no doubt it's a physical phenomenon. However, it seems easy these days to forget that our lifestyle and choices also have a dramatic effect on our mental well-being. This bit that you've quoted from Mr. Wheaton sets off an alarm in my head: he may be a member of the social constructionism / extreme relativism cult, which is the kind of belief system and lifestyle which could depress anyone given enough time and immersion. The amount of control that the true believers of this ideology attempt to exert over human nature is unsustainable, and almost certainly leads to strained relationships, moral confusion, poor judgment, and so on. In other words, I think Wil's got problems other than just clinical depression and anxiety. He may benefit from taking a hard look at his beliefs and challenging them a bit.
- protomyth 8y ago
  Its a shame when someone looks solely at a checklist with nothing to do with environment to determine how difficult someone's life has been. Its even worse when they use it to evaluate their own problems or the problems of others. I often think this is a contributor to our own mental health and causes us to cause pain to others because we are blinded to the condition versus what a checklist says they should be. It also might explain the absolute vitriol that comes from Mr. Wheaton's twitter feed. I really believe if you rage against other people by calling them subhumans it reflects on your own condition. You cannot stay happy with yourself if you put malice into the world at such high levels. Not everyone you disagree with is automatically evil of the highest order. Too many people stare into an abyss of their own making that prevents proper healing of their own soul.
nickthemagicman 8y ago
I feel like capitalism separates people based on intelligence because value is added to businesses/society by your ability solve problems/create. Manual labor is something literally anyone can do(barring major physical disability). While this isn't a new idea in human history, the intelligent have always had it better, it's become a new problem recently that people who are of average intelligence cannot live decent lives. This is just a theory but I feel like up until the past 20 or so years even if you were of average intelligence you could live a very decent life just working, raising your kids, etc. Factory workers of the 60's made enough to do well for themselves and family. Now with automation, outsourcing, etc, only the people who create the automation and can compete with the best minds from around the world have decent jobs, (i.e. STEM which isn't accessible intellectually to a fair amount of people). So we're ALL competing intellectually now whereas before only some people were needed to be the brains and the rest could live a decent life. I feel like constantly having to compete on this level with your mind having to constantly perform at its peak... not just to get ahead...but for basic survival without a foundational safety net, really lends itself to mental disorders or exaggerates existing ones. Just my personal theory.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Manual labor is something literally anyone can do. No, it's not; people can just as easily lack the physical capacity for manual labor as they can lack the intellectual capacity for knowledge work. There are plenty of people who can do knowledge work but would be unable to do manual work.
  - nickthemagicman 8y ago
    I think human beings have been doing manual labor since they emerged from the forests 50k years ago: hunter/gathering, agriculture(pre-industrialization) Manual labor is our default condition. Everyone can do manual labor, or they can eventually get in shape enough to do it.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > I think human beings have been doing manual labor since they emerged from the forests 50k years ago Believe it or not, the conditions humans live in now are different than 50K years ago; it's much more common for someone able to survive to adulthood without being able to do manual labor now. > Everyone can do manual labor, or they can eventually get in shape enough to do it. Stephen Hawking, for a fairly extreme and well-known example, was quite capable of knowledge work, but could not have done manual labor, and could not have gotten in shape to do such labor, either.
mattdeboard 8y ago
My therapist recommended a book to me a few months ago, and reading it honestly changed my life. It's called, "I Don't Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression", by Terrence Real. Read the summary here https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Want-Talk-About-Overcoming/dp/0684835398 https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Want-Talk-About-Overcoming/dp/06... The thesis of the book is about how depression often manifests in men in ways society doesn't recognize as depression. Examples would be rage problems, substance abuse, "workaholism", and many others. I don't know, maybe the book just caught me at exactly the right time in my life, but it has been profoundly transformative for me.
imtemplain 8y ago
This is what soy does to people.
- DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
  The one sentence you posted doesn't advance the conversation very much. I'd suggest adding a few sentences to clarify what point you're making, and to help make it.
  - gspetr 8y ago
    He's probably referring to Wheaton being a frequent photoshopped meme target and a posterboy for "anti-soy movement" from the depths of 4chan et al.
ken 8y ago
> It’s just an illness. I mean, it’s right there in the name “Mental ILLNESS” so it shouldn’t have been the revelation that it was I think this is actually a big part of the problem. In most other contexts we encounter, stuffing an adjective in there means "NOT". Soy milk? Not real milk. Computer science? Don't see anyone using the scientific method. I'm absolutely certain that mental illness is real, and deserves real study and real treatment, but even so, whenever I hear "mental illness" I can't help but hear a twang of "... (not real illness)". The phrase "physical illness" is relatively rare because we normally just call it "illness". Is there a better word for mental illness, which stands on its own? Names matter, and I don't think this one is doing us any favors.
- gascan 8y ago
  Kind of like how "heart disease" means, not actually a disease? Or "lung cancer" means, not really cancer?
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > In most other contexts we encounter, stuffing an adjective in there means "NOT". No, in most contexts in English, modifying a noun with an adjective doesn't invert the meaning of the noun. A “respiratory infection” is a real infection. A “premeditated homicide” is a real homicide. Or, from your post: A “big part” is a real part. A “better word” is a real word. The “scientific method” is a real method. “Real study” is real study and “real treatment” is real treatment.
  - xanthopan 8y ago
    > In most other contexts we encounter, stuffing an adjective in there means "NOT". I think that's less a comment on grammar and more about how there's a tendency to name stuff that is similar to other stuff, yet markedly different, in oxymoronic ways. For example: "virtual reality", "business ethics", "educational television", "military intelligence", "magic realism"
    - mc32 8y ago
legostormtroopr 8y ago
I was unaware Wil Wheaton could feel shame.
RickJWagner 8y ago
He's probably been adversely affected by a scene he's acted in. In this particular scene, a nasty bald-headed old man shouts "Shut up, Wesley!" at a young Will Wheaton. It's immensely popular on YouTube, the click-count alone probably haunts his psyche daily.
- berbec 8y ago
  Alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die can't have helped back in the day, either. He has been a techie his whole life, so he can't have missed USENET.
rc-1140 8y ago
tl;dr - For all of my wealth, fame, and extended family, I chose to be an attention-seeking childish simp on Twitter for many years instead of dealing with my issues, and now, dear Medium users, I am here for your attention as well while finally admitting that yes, I may have a problem. While (mental) illness is a worthy discussion, Wil Wheaton is not.
nomadiccoder 8y ago
'anxiety is the dizzyness of freedom' ― Søren Kierkegaard, once one accepts ones mental illness and instead of running from it, accepts and attacks it head on can one truly make progress. The paradox is that [mental] illness hinders ones ability to do so.
gascan 8y ago
For all the people in this thread musing that our ancestors had it good- a little risk, sure, but plenty of fulfillment & meaning- I can't help but wonder if the stigmatization on the left & among techies of serving in the military, could have unintended consequences. I've never served, but if you want to live in a small tight knit group, live adventurously with real danger and do physically grueling work and get your hands dirty- you still can.
- erentz 8y ago
  The military’s purpose in the US is far from meaningful unfortunately. Go into the fighting forces and it’s endless war against fake enemies that does nothing to help the nation. Come home broken, with terrible support. If you’re badly broken enjoy winding up on the streets in your mid twenties with PTSD and no future. Or for techies, maybe you’d go into the clandestine services and then find it’s massive overreach, spying on your own citizens, and building the tools to bring about dystopia. It’s a pity because otherwise you’re right. And it should be as you say. It’s just that’s not what our military is sadly.
- retrogradeorbit 8y ago
  There is something to be said about left wing political beliefs being correlated with unhappiness. What causes what though is up for debate. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2008/10/23/republicans-still-happy-campers/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2008/10/23/republicans-still-...
- mnm1 8y ago
  Trade depression and anxiety for ptsd, depression, and anxiety or a possible early death? Sounds like a terrible solution to me.
omgoodness7 8y ago
I love HN, but of course there’s a but...how narcissistic of most of you. It’s the annoying person at the bar, not listening, or contributing, just looking for an opportunity to say “Look at me! I’m awesome! Do this and you can be awesome too!” Jeez man. Y’all is vapid.
sxp62000 8y ago
That little voice in the back of your head that tells you that you're shit, is a liar. Depression is a constant fight with that voice.

So what do you guys think: hunter-gatherers, then feudal farmers and then now - how does median/average suffering per capita compare? We all have better luxuries now than kings had hundreds of years ago. Less famine, life threatening situations and so on. But we do have a way to compare ourselves with best parts of lives of many interesting people around the world. We have antibiotics and painkillers, but we also seem to have way more options and anxiety. I'd assume there's much less physical pain. But what about suffering that can be caused by things like depression? Do you think it's about the same, much better, slightly worse?

perfmode 8y ago
i don’t think we are anywhere close to having the requisite tools for such a comparison. the subjective conscious experience is complicated.
SteveNuts 8y ago
Back during WW1, what we now know as PTSD was called "Shell Shock". I wonder what the depression and anxiety rates would be if we used modern psychiatric diagnosis techniques against say, a WW1 soldier, or maybe a medieval peasant.
- graeme 8y ago
  Given the research on blast induced brain damage, shell shock probably was significantly caused due to physical damage.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
jacobolus 8y ago
Peasants in a feudal society are constantly getting abused by the “nobles”. That is: beaten, robbed, property destroyed, forced into involuntary labor, tortured, raped, killed, often just for looking at one of the nobles the wrong way or for sport. Life was precarious, and everyone was constantly stressed about it. Not to mention famine was common, and parents would e.g. go hungry for long stretches of time so their kids could subsist on half-rations of nutrient-poor staples. In such an environment, domestic violence is common, and it is difficult to make any kind of long-term plans. You just try to survive day by day. Then there’s also literally backbreaking labor, poor sanitation, poor healthcare, parasites, the equivalent of smoking a few packs a day by sleeping next to a wood fire, infant mortality of >50%, and so on. Source: this stuff was still rampant in the 1960s in rural southern Mexico, and still happens today in many countries around the world. You can still interview people who grew up with that kind of terror.
slg 8y ago
We have the luxury of operating at much higher levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs than generations past. I would much rather worry about whether my life truly matters than worry about whether my life will immediately come to an end if I can't kill or grow enough food. Depression was probably always an issue, today we just have the privilege of it being the most pressing problem for many of us.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > We have the luxury of operating at much higher levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs than generations past. IIRC, there's is strong reason to discount Maslow's heirarchy as an explanation of anything across different times and cultures, as the number, identity, and order of groups of needs had been shown to not consistently match his and to vary both culturally and, within a culture, in response to changing circumstances.
  - sizzle 8y ago
    His work was never peer reviewed if I recall so it is suspect. Can anyone provide more info on the validity of his work and research methodology?
- Fricken 8y ago
  Many of the most memorable, meaningful, and exhilarating experiences in my life are derived from times that were desperate, physically gruelling and dangerous. I think it's what we're designed for. A ship is safe in harbour but that's not what ships are for. The periods of depression in my life were quite safe and comfortable, and strongly associated with wondering if my life really matters, and you can't think about that too hard because when you do, you recognize that, no, your life is actually pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things. Hunter Gatherers didn't have that problem, because their whole world revolved around their one little tribe, and at that scale, yes, their actions and choices really did matter.
  - jackweirdy 8y ago
    > A ship is safe in harbour but that's not what ships are for. What a powerful little phrase I’d never heard before. Thanks for sharing this!
TomMckenny 8y ago
It's nice there are some treatments now, however modest. Also nice is that the illness is sufficiently accepted that a guy who works on TV can talk about it publicly (though perhaps uniquely and I suppose with some risk)
anoncoward111 8y ago
Hunter gatherers didn't necessarily suffer that much. Sure, they faced a lot of environmental challenges like bugs, a lack of air conditioning, hunger, and serious diseases like malaria and smallpox, but they arguably had much easier social customs than we do now. There were no clothes, no laws, no social signaling for the most part. If you didn't like your tribe, I'm sure you were free to run away and eat berries in the forest and try to figure it out yourself. These days being homeless is illegal and they face a lot of harassment. You are forced to conform and commute to a job to pay for a bed to sleep in.
- krapp 8y ago
  >There were no clothes, no laws, no social signaling for the most part. If you didn't like your tribe, I'm sure you were free to run away and eat berries in the forest and try to figure it out yourself. What archaeological or anthropological evidence are you basing these assumptions on? Why would hunter gatherers not wear clothes, when they can offer useful protection against the elements? Why would they not have common customs or taboos ("laws?") at least at the level of families and clans when even gorillas have some semblance of it? It seems as if you're just assuming the past was some idyllic and anarchist inversion of modernity.
  - trgv 8y ago
    I agree with your comment. > Why would hunter gatherers not wear clothes, when they can offer useful protection against the elements? I was curious about this and looked it up. Apparently there was some period of time during which humanity did not wear clothes. This has been determined by looking at the DNA of hair lice versus clothes lice and seeing where they diverged: http://news.ufl.edu/archive/2011/01/uf-study-of-lice-dna-shows-humans-first-wore-clothes-170000-years-ago.html http://news.ufl.edu/archive/2011/01/uf-study-of-lice-dna-sho...
    - tvmalsv 8y ago
      That went in a direction I didn't expect! Very interesting, thanks :)
clumsysmurf 8y ago
I think we exchanged physical suffering for emotional suffering, but maybe its about the same.
manfredo 8y ago
This is just my personal perspective for the most part, but I think a lot of the anxiety I feel stems from innate, primal survival instincts that have no real need anymore in my life position. For instance even though I could support myself and probably a small family on my current compensation, but I still feel the urge to get a raise. I still worry about my motorcycle getting stolen off the street even though it's a leisure vehicle and is a used, small bike that costs less than what I make in a week. Neither failing to get a good raise nor having my motorcycle stolen has any significant impact on my basic needs (heck, the latter would statistically improve it), but I think a primal urge to acquire and keep resources fueling my anxiety over these things. These urges used to be necessary - the cave man that didn't worry about feeding himself and didn't worry about having his stuff stolen probably had a tougher time surviving - but I think the urges remain but there's no real outlet in many developed parts of the world. As an addendum, I think a good way to mitigate this is to find things that satisfy these urges when possible, and be serenely introspective about the things you can't. When I stress out about material resource, I calculate how long I can live comfortably with no income and try to tangibly see hoe wide my safety net is (granted, this is not something that may result in reduced stress for everyone). But some things just need to be accepted as a part of myself. For instance when I feel the temptation to sleep with other women I just have to accept that this a part of an innate instinct to impregnate as many women as possible, instilled through hundreds of millennia of evolution in a society vastly different from the one I currently live in.
- gascan 8y ago
  I still worry about my motorcycle getting stolen off the street even though it's a leisure vehicle and is a used, small bike that costs less than what I make in a week. Dude, that one's easy. Look at your cheap crappy bike and laugh. "Hah! What kind of self respecting thief would even bother stealing a crappy bike like this?"
  - manfredo 8y ago
    That's essentially what I do. I deliberately park it next to more expensive motorcycles. As my MSF instructor told me, "By far the best theft deterrent is to park next to the Harley-Davidson".
petermcneeley 8y ago
The notion that we live better than the kings of old is absurd. Even materially one can ask Where is my castle? where are my tracks of land? where are my ships and armies? Where is my gold and gems? Where are my servants and slaves?
- gascan 8y ago
  Here is your tea, sugar, salt, and spices each for a pittance. Here are your 600 thread count sheets, your satin for a song, your comfortable house that heats & cools itself. Your telephone and computer, which do the work of an army of couriers & mathematicians. Your Netflix subscription, which can keep you endlessly entertained. And, if you want ships and armies, you can always join the military and pursue a command. Remember, many kings of old were not just politicians with military powers bestowed on a purple cushion, they were war figures who rose to the top of the bloodshed. Think Andrew Jackson, Washington, Grant.
  - petermcneeley 8y ago
    Perhaps my tastes are too low but for food there is nothing better than cooked meat of which the kings had in abundance. Netflix is a (virtual) substitution for real drama, real romance , and real violence. If your gonna count the netflix you might as well just say The Matrix is material utopia.
    - gascan 8y ago
      OK, but you can eat fresh corn-fed beef, grass-fed beef, chicken, bison, venison, kangaroo, turkey, tuna, salmon, halibut, duck, swordfish, pork, lamb, sheep, eel, clam, oyster, mussel, lobster, crab, ... shall I go on?
      - petermcneeley 8y ago
        I myself have a pretty basic palate but the kings did enjoy quite a variety of foods. http://www.picturebritain.com/2012/11/whatdidhenryVIIIeat.html http://www.picturebritain.com/2012/11/whatdidhenryVIIIeat.ht... Either way the point is that Materially the kings were exceedingly wealthy and if you just translate what they had to today they still remain so.
dominotw 8y ago
> hunter-gatherers, then feudal farmers and then now - how does median/average suffering per capita compare? I think as a man you have evolutionary pressure to spread your seed as much as possible, that pressure manifests itself as depression. I don't think that has changed.
ASalazarMX 8y ago
There is a cartoon where a scientist travels to the future and finds the world has become an utopia. A friendly host shows the scientist the wonders of his world, and then says something like "no one is poor or hungry anymore, we have everything to cover everyone's needs, even a beautiful house for each". The scientists asks "Why not two houses?". The end panel is the scientist getting back into his machine while a nuclear mushroom looms in the background. My point is, people doesn't seem to be made to be fully happy. Yes, we enjoy the high of happiness, but soon we come down and take it for granted, then something else we don't have is what will make us happy. I think this an asset, what makes us human and what encourages us to strive for something more. This is also a liability, as we easily lose perspective and purpose.
- kqr2 8y ago
  Do you have a link or name of the cartoon?
  - luca3v 8y ago
    SMBC: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/time-machine https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/time-machine
    - kqr2 8y ago
      Thanks for the link!
    - ASalazarMX 8y ago
      This was the one. I still think the version in my head is better.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
coldtea 8y ago
>We all have better luxuries now than kings had hundreds of years ago. If by luxuries we mean trinkets, then yes. But power is also a luxury, and kings had it. A nice house is also a luxury, and kings had the best (and actually, several). Free time is the biggest luxury of all, and kings had it (what with personal cooks, a ton of attending stuff, etc). The ability to influence your society is a luxury, and kings had it in spades. A sense of purpose is also a luxury, and kings had it handed to them (e.g. leading their nation, etc). Luxury is also comparative, and you don't miss what you don't even know (e.g. a 16th century king wouldn't miss not having internet). On that comparative level, to their peers, kings were above everybody else. So, yeah, they didn't have Advil and iPhones, but their lives could be very much better than someone who had.
gspetr 8y ago
Wheaton needs to lift heavy. Exercise is known to cure male depression and many people on HN (myself included) can testify to it's effectiveness and the positive outcome in their lives.

monksy 8y ago

This article strikes me as partially honest and raw and then the other to be very planned and calculated. Let's get this out now: I'm glad he finally sought help, and that he's getting it. The things about this article that bug me: 1. He starts off with the article with a "trigger warning." The title is about depression and anxiety. Having a 'trigger warning' is either insulting to the reader, or it's a weird posturing thing. Seems a little offputting when he's trying to write about his own experience and then in a way has to apologize for it. 2. He talks about his huge accomplishments and then he discounts himself due to his 'identity': " I have run out of space in my office for the awards I’ve received for my work, and as a white, heterosexual, cisgender man in America, I live life on the lowest difficulty setting — with the Celebrity cheat enabled." (Why is that even important to talk about your sexuality, race, or even standing... if he's trying to do a raw and honest appeal this seems a little off to me) This topic has nothing to do with those categories. Leave it for a later addressing of remarks to discredit due to those attributes (this is an issue that can affect anyone, even Trump, [insert who you hate]) > My life is, by every objective measurement, very very good. Clearly not if you're suffering. 3. The apology to his mother. Again why is he apologizing for what he's going for? This to me seems like: 1. an improper sharing of a message to a close family member 2. a projection of his relationship to his mother, etc. This just seems really weird with respect of the audience of the talk. EDIT: If you want to communicate how it's affected people close to you.. tell the audience. I spoke with my mother on this. Her concerns were x,y,z. That would give the audience a template of how to do the same if they feel it's needed. 4. The ending which he's trying to become an activist. He's trying to call for political influence and then trying to endorse organizations. At the end of this, I'm left wondering: Why did he write this? What does this piece mean? It goes from being very personal and revealing to impersonal and political/advocating. Why not split both of those up. Let the next question be: "How can we address that? Give the audience a way to say "I'm seeing these things.. what can I do?" Is this a vehicle for him to talk about "change" he wants to see?

dmitri20 8y ago
> My life is, by every objective measurement, very very good. I found this statement silly too. He's getting older. His body is slowly deteriorating. His opportunities are dwindling. His best days are probably behind him. That's reason enough for depression by itself.

anjc 8y ago

Is there any evidence that talking about depression openly, or talk-type therapies, help to reduce depression? My experience of colleagues talking openly about these things is that it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle, and ultimately makes things worse.

AceJohnny2 8y ago
I think you're only thinking that because they're letting it be more visible in order to get support. The alternative is that they put on a mask to function in society, because they don't want to be a burden, all the while dying inside... Until they unexpectedly disappear, because they've committed suicide.
- anjc 8y ago
  Essentially I'm questioning this common idea that talking about depression will alleviate it, and maybe prevent suicide. I'm not saying that it doesn't, I'm just asking for evidence that it does. My anecdotal experience is that people who talk about it, solidify it into their outward personality. I'm not sure it's a good thing, but other posters seem to have had good outcomes.
craftyguy 8y ago
I think it depends on the individual. Sometimes talking about these things helps, sometimes it doesn't. It generally helps me.
phren0logy 8y ago
Relevant background:I'm a psychiatrist. "Talking about it" and "talking with a therapist" are different, and a good therapist using an evidence-based approach to therapy is effective. Evidence-based therapies are different than "chatting with a buddy." That said, finding a good and well-trained therapist is often difficult. In approximately 10% of people, psychotherapy makes things worse rather than better. Sleep hygiene and regular exercise are always a good idea, and in some cases medication is worth considering.
- 8y ago

dmitri20 8y ago

> as a white, heterosexual, cisgender man in America, I live life on the lowest difficulty setting — with the Celebrity cheat enabled And yet men kill themselves at a much higher rate than women, which empirically suggests (in the west) that the equivalent female difficulty setting is actually lower. Few dispute this argument when applied to the higher suicide rates among LGBT people.

sergiotapia 8y ago

>And as we were walking I just started to cry and she asked me, “what’s wrong?” >I said “I just realized that I don’t feel bad and I just realized that I’m not existing, I’m living.” I can't imagine a bigger turn off for your wife than this. Yikes! You're supposed to be the rock dude, save those thoughts for the lads. Then again this is the guy who asked his wife to lick some guys face while he's posing in the background all scrunched up. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMToPQVWUAAD0h2.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMToPQVWUAAD0h2.jpg - Pathetic!

minism 8y ago
What the fuck?
- oopsman88 8y ago
  He raises a good point. I've read some of this guy's stuff on Twitter, it's really pathetic. No wonder he's depressed if he lets himself be treated like this.
fizwhiz 8y ago
Ssshh, it's 2018.
- sergiotapia 8y ago
  It being $CURRENT_YEAR doesn't change a thing, there are universal truths.
sctb 8y ago
This is not a civil and substantive comment. You should know that we're here for better. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

20160216 8y ago

This guy has a lot of stories about how Shatner was rude to him without cause. Well he has turned into shatner and is rude without cause to many people, including myself. I now think his real psychological problem is that he’s a sociopathic narcissist and this entire article is just manipulation. Wow, downvoted and flagged Within literally 5 seconds of posting. Only certain opinions are allowed here?

dang 8y ago
Personal attacks and name calling aren't opinions, and aren't allowed here. Please don't do this again, regardless of how you feel about someone or how badly they behaved. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

WilliamEdward 8y ago

Is there any progress being made with regards to gut microbiomes causing depression? it's such a new area of research that it has the potential to bring out a cure for depression if we figure out why it's caused. I don't believe it's some un-crackable enigma living in the mind, because neuroplasticity is very very easy to change.

symlinkk 8y ago

I'm glad a celebrity is willing to come out and talk about this stuff, it makes me feel less insane for suffering through it myself. But there's not much actual advice here. It sounds like the main thing that helped him were pills. Also: > as a white, heterosexual, cisgender man in America, I live life on the lowest difficulty setting What a pathetic, and wholly incorrect thing to say.

rhexs 8y ago
I wonder how much, if any, of depression or anxiety could be linked to having such a low opinion of what you achieved. Whether or not his assertion is true, I don't understand how that would help anyone's psyche.
camdenlock 8y ago
I suffer from depression and anxiety. I take medication, and it helps big time. There's no doubt it's a physical phenomenon. However, it seems easy these days to forget that our lifestyle and choices also have a dramatic effect on our mental well-being. This bit that you've quoted from Mr. Wheaton sets off an alarm in my head: he may be a member of the social constructionism / extreme relativism cult, which is the kind of belief system and lifestyle which could depress anyone given enough time and immersion. The amount of control that the true believers of this ideology attempt to exert over human nature is unsustainable, and almost certainly leads to strained relationships, moral confusion, poor judgment, and so on. In other words, I think Wil's got problems other than just clinical depression and anxiety. He may benefit from taking a hard look at his beliefs and challenging them a bit.
protomyth 8y ago
Its a shame when someone looks solely at a checklist with nothing to do with environment to determine how difficult someone's life has been. Its even worse when they use it to evaluate their own problems or the problems of others. I often think this is a contributor to our own mental health and causes us to cause pain to others because we are blinded to the condition versus what a checklist says they should be. It also might explain the absolute vitriol that comes from Mr. Wheaton's twitter feed. I really believe if you rage against other people by calling them subhumans it reflects on your own condition. You cannot stay happy with yourself if you put malice into the world at such high levels. Not everyone you disagree with is automatically evil of the highest order. Too many people stare into an abyss of their own making that prevents proper healing of their own soul.

nickthemagicman 8y ago

I feel like capitalism separates people based on intelligence because value is added to businesses/society by your ability solve problems/create. Manual labor is something literally anyone can do(barring major physical disability). While this isn't a new idea in human history, the intelligent have always had it better, it's become a new problem recently that people who are of average intelligence cannot live decent lives. This is just a theory but I feel like up until the past 20 or so years even if you were of average intelligence you could live a very decent life just working, raising your kids, etc. Factory workers of the 60's made enough to do well for themselves and family. Now with automation, outsourcing, etc, only the people who create the automation and can compete with the best minds from around the world have decent jobs, (i.e. STEM which isn't accessible intellectually to a fair amount of people). So we're ALL competing intellectually now whereas before only some people were needed to be the brains and the rest could live a decent life. I feel like constantly having to compete on this level with your mind having to constantly perform at its peak... not just to get ahead...but for basic survival without a foundational safety net, really lends itself to mental disorders or exaggerates existing ones. Just my personal theory.

dragonwriter 8y ago
> Manual labor is something literally anyone can do. No, it's not; people can just as easily lack the physical capacity for manual labor as they can lack the intellectual capacity for knowledge work. There are plenty of people who can do knowledge work but would be unable to do manual work.
- nickthemagicman 8y ago
  I think human beings have been doing manual labor since they emerged from the forests 50k years ago: hunter/gathering, agriculture(pre-industrialization) Manual labor is our default condition. Everyone can do manual labor, or they can eventually get in shape enough to do it.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > I think human beings have been doing manual labor since they emerged from the forests 50k years ago Believe it or not, the conditions humans live in now are different than 50K years ago; it's much more common for someone able to survive to adulthood without being able to do manual labor now. > Everyone can do manual labor, or they can eventually get in shape enough to do it. Stephen Hawking, for a fairly extreme and well-known example, was quite capable of knowledge work, but could not have done manual labor, and could not have gotten in shape to do such labor, either.

mattdeboard 8y ago

My therapist recommended a book to me a few months ago, and reading it honestly changed my life. It's called, "I Don't Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression", by Terrence Real. Read the summary here https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Want-Talk-About-Overcoming/dp/0684835398 https://www.amazon.com/Dont-Want-Talk-About-Overcoming/dp/06... The thesis of the book is about how depression often manifests in men in ways society doesn't recognize as depression. Examples would be rage problems, substance abuse, "workaholism", and many others. I don't know, maybe the book just caught me at exactly the right time in my life, but it has been profoundly transformative for me.

imtemplain 8y ago

This is what soy does to people.

DoofusOfDeath 8y ago
The one sentence you posted doesn't advance the conversation very much. I'd suggest adding a few sentences to clarify what point you're making, and to help make it.
- gspetr 8y ago
  He's probably referring to Wheaton being a frequent photoshopped meme target and a posterboy for "anti-soy movement" from the depths of 4chan et al.

ken 8y ago

> It’s just an illness. I mean, it’s right there in the name “Mental ILLNESS” so it shouldn’t have been the revelation that it was I think this is actually a big part of the problem. In most other contexts we encounter, stuffing an adjective in there means "NOT". Soy milk? Not real milk. Computer science? Don't see anyone using the scientific method. I'm absolutely certain that mental illness is real, and deserves real study and real treatment, but even so, whenever I hear "mental illness" I can't help but hear a twang of "... (not real illness)". The phrase "physical illness" is relatively rare because we normally just call it "illness". Is there a better word for mental illness, which stands on its own? Names matter, and I don't think this one is doing us any favors.

gascan 8y ago
Kind of like how "heart disease" means, not actually a disease? Or "lung cancer" means, not really cancer?
dragonwriter 8y ago
> In most other contexts we encounter, stuffing an adjective in there means "NOT". No, in most contexts in English, modifying a noun with an adjective doesn't invert the meaning of the noun. A “respiratory infection” is a real infection. A “premeditated homicide” is a real homicide. Or, from your post: A “big part” is a real part. A “better word” is a real word. The “scientific method” is a real method. “Real study” is real study and “real treatment” is real treatment.
- xanthopan 8y ago
  > In most other contexts we encounter, stuffing an adjective in there means "NOT". I think that's less a comment on grammar and more about how there's a tendency to name stuff that is similar to other stuff, yet markedly different, in oxymoronic ways. For example: "virtual reality", "business ethics", "educational television", "military intelligence", "magic realism"
  - mc32 8y ago

legostormtroopr 8y ago

I was unaware Wil Wheaton could feel shame.

RickJWagner 8y ago

He's probably been adversely affected by a scene he's acted in. In this particular scene, a nasty bald-headed old man shouts "Shut up, Wesley!" at a young Will Wheaton. It's immensely popular on YouTube, the click-count alone probably haunts his psyche daily.

berbec 8y ago
Alt.wesley.crusher.die.die.die can't have helped back in the day, either. He has been a techie his whole life, so he can't have missed USENET.

rc-1140 8y ago

tl;dr - For all of my wealth, fame, and extended family, I chose to be an attention-seeking childish simp on Twitter for many years instead of dealing with my issues, and now, dear Medium users, I am here for your attention as well while finally admitting that yes, I may have a problem. While (mental) illness is a worthy discussion, Wil Wheaton is not.

nomadiccoder 8y ago

'anxiety is the dizzyness of freedom' ― Søren Kierkegaard, once one accepts ones mental illness and instead of running from it, accepts and attacks it head on can one truly make progress. The paradox is that [mental] illness hinders ones ability to do so.

gascan 8y ago

For all the people in this thread musing that our ancestors had it good- a little risk, sure, but plenty of fulfillment & meaning- I can't help but wonder if the stigmatization on the left & among techies of serving in the military, could have unintended consequences. I've never served, but if you want to live in a small tight knit group, live adventurously with real danger and do physically grueling work and get your hands dirty- you still can.

erentz 8y ago
The military’s purpose in the US is far from meaningful unfortunately. Go into the fighting forces and it’s endless war against fake enemies that does nothing to help the nation. Come home broken, with terrible support. If you’re badly broken enjoy winding up on the streets in your mid twenties with PTSD and no future. Or for techies, maybe you’d go into the clandestine services and then find it’s massive overreach, spying on your own citizens, and building the tools to bring about dystopia. It’s a pity because otherwise you’re right. And it should be as you say. It’s just that’s not what our military is sadly.
retrogradeorbit 8y ago
There is something to be said about left wing political beliefs being correlated with unhappiness. What causes what though is up for debate. http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2008/10/23/republicans-still-happy-campers/ http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2008/10/23/republicans-still-...
mnm1 8y ago
Trade depression and anxiety for ptsd, depression, and anxiety or a possible early death? Sounds like a terrible solution to me.

omgoodness7 8y ago

I love HN, but of course there’s a but...how narcissistic of most of you. It’s the annoying person at the bar, not listening, or contributing, just looking for an opportunity to say “Look at me! I’m awesome! Do this and you can be awesome too!” Jeez man. Y’all is vapid.

sxp62000 8y ago

That little voice in the back of your head that tells you that you're shit, is a liar. Depression is a constant fight with that voice.