11 ms·

Overnight Brain Stimulation Improves Memory

103 points by laurex 8y ago

ddtaylor 8y ago
Can someone kindly explain this to me? I feel bad asking, but, I honestly don't understand the abstract =(
- photoangell 8y ago
  from another website.. "tACS: Transcranial Alternating Current Stimulation (tACS) is a noninvasive, low-level alternating current applied to the cranium. New research out today suggests it expedites memory consolidation while you sleep. As with the above noninvasive transcranial stimulation techniques, it is not fully understood how it works and the long-term effects are unknown." - https://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2018/07/23/can-we-all-benefit-from-electric-shocks-to-our-brains/#72232201614c https://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2018/07/23/can-we-...
- cjohansson 8y ago
  The use a brain "massage" device on a person while they sleep and they see their longterm memory improving. Brain improvements are a big business and a lot of people have got ill for trying these stuff at home. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-27343047 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-27343047
  - ivanhoe 8y ago
    Doing this stuff on yourself at home is pretty much an equivalent of trying to tune up your car's engine by randomly smacking it with a hammer while being blindfolded. You probably will not break it completely, but it's also very unlikely that it's possible to improve something without understanding how it works first...
    - ramblerman 8y ago
      Putting aside the fact that a lot of progress in history (herbs and medicines) have been found exactly this way, through trial and error and some 'mystic' guess work. I don't think we are close to understanding the brain either.
      - hvidgaard 8y ago
        And a lot more and focused progress have been made by people that study the subjects extensively, and try "things" and scientifically measure the impact.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
- austinjp 8y ago
  By no means my area of expertise, but a quick glance suggests: The experimenters set up a system that could detect slow-wave (SW) fluctuations in brain activity. They used trans-cranial magnetic stimulation (electro-magnets on the scalp) to "augment" this SW activity. This seems to have improved memory, measured by some specific learning task they set for the participants. Trans-cranial magnetic stimulation is becoming popular in trans-human type circles. Apparently it's becoming feasible to do at home with cheap off the shelf components. However, of course, the long term effects and side effects are poorly understood. This particular experiment used 16 participants (only three of whom were female, for some daft reason) so we can't draw any firm conclusions from this.
  - h4b4n3r0 8y ago
    Not magnetic, electric it looks like. I’m not sure how I feel about running electrical current through my brain.
    - onemoresoop 8y ago
      ECT(Electroconvulsive therapy) is already a thing - it is used for various treatments for depression and seizures. It consists of small electric currents passing through the brain which is very similar to brain stimulation, the only difference is that he first one is a medical procedure while the latter is, as of now, more like a brain hack. I wouldn't recommend anyone doing it without knowing the risks involved.
      - inetsee 8y ago
        I don't think it's accurate to describe ECT as using small electric currents. The very name says that the procedure induces convulsions. From Wikipedia: "ECT is often used with informed consent as a last line of intervention for major depressive disorder, mania, and catatonia. ECT machines have been placed in the Class II category (special controls) by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) since 1976." (Emphasis mine.)
        8y ago
0xB0D 8y ago
Electroshock while you sleep. Sounds wonderful. https://youtu.be/NUeNzCBqhu8 https://youtu.be/NUeNzCBqhu8
aalleavitch 8y ago
We already do this it's called dreaming.
laverick 8y ago
Looks like they use Transcranial Alternating Current Stimulation (tACS). The military has been doing tDCS (direct current) experiments for a while for increased learning & performance. I had a friend who used to swear by tDCS and did it very frequently. He attributed all kinds of mood & cognition improvements to it, including substantially reduced need for sleep, improved eyesight (he was born partially blind), etc. He also complained about migraines a lot and liked to experiment with all kinds of supplements, so YMMV. Tried tDCS myself a handful of times, not for improved learning but for improved focus. If applied correctly it definitely has an effect that I'd consider better / stronger than a cup of coffee. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it regularly though. There's a subreddit that used to be pretty active: https://www.reddit.com/r/tDCS/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tDCS/ And here's a good Radiolab podcast, including DARPA Sniper experiments, etc: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/9-volt-nirvana/ https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/9-volt-nirvana/
- CamelCaseName 8y ago
  Some of the posts on that subreddit are seriously concerning. Burns on your head/arms seem to be common. One company in particular, "Foc.us", seems particularly dangerous.
  - amelius 8y ago
    Interesting tidbit: the foc.us manual says: "If you see white flashes (known as phosphenes), adjust the position of the foc.us headset away from your eyes"
    - redisman 8y ago
      This seems like a really stupid thing to experiment in. Wait a few years and find out you permanently damaged your brain for a "caffeine-like" boost.
  - JoshMnem 8y ago
    And IQ scores: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150505152140.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150505152140.h...
Jedd 8y ago
Is there some aspect of this that's quite new? I'm reading Why We Sleep (Matthew Walker), published 2017-09 - an HN recommendation from a while back - and I've just read the chapter where he describes an experiment that sounds exactly like this (as in, same approach, same outcomes).
JoshMnem 8y ago
Read this before self-experimenting: "Popular electric brain stimulation method used to boost brainpower is detrimental to IQ scores" https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150505152140.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150505152140.h...
chrisweekly 8y ago
Binaural beats / audio-based brainwave manipulation seems a much, much safer approach!
- cryoshon 8y ago
  is there any evidence that this can actually work?
  - lowdest 8y ago
    Anecdote: I self-experimented with binaural beats some years ago. I did not notice anything regarding concentration, but I did find that tones starting in the normal awake/aware range and sliding linearly down to the slower, deep sleep range over 15-20 minutes would reliably cause me to fall asleep. I ultimately layered that audio behind a guided meditation relaxation track I found online and used the combination as a sleep aid for a few years.
  - copperx 8y ago
    Absolutely none.
robg 8y ago
Interesting to consider if an unintended common cause of tACS is better encouraging lymphatic cleaning processes, especially where evidence is accumulating of the role of the dura mater. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05763-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05763-0
darepublic 8y ago
I want to buy one of these devices but it seems risky and difficult to do so.

103 points by laurex 8y ago

ddtaylor 8y ago

Can someone kindly explain this to me? I feel bad asking, but, I honestly don't understand the abstract =(

photoangell 8y ago
from another website.. "tACS: Transcranial Alternating Current Stimulation (tACS) is a noninvasive, low-level alternating current applied to the cranium. New research out today suggests it expedites memory consolidation while you sleep. As with the above noninvasive transcranial stimulation techniques, it is not fully understood how it works and the long-term effects are unknown." - https://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2018/07/23/can-we-all-benefit-from-electric-shocks-to-our-brains/#72232201614c https://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2018/07/23/can-we-...
cjohansson 8y ago
The use a brain "massage" device on a person while they sleep and they see their longterm memory improving. Brain improvements are a big business and a lot of people have got ill for trying these stuff at home. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-27343047 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-27343047
- ivanhoe 8y ago
  Doing this stuff on yourself at home is pretty much an equivalent of trying to tune up your car's engine by randomly smacking it with a hammer while being blindfolded. You probably will not break it completely, but it's also very unlikely that it's possible to improve something without understanding how it works first...
  - ramblerman 8y ago
    Putting aside the fact that a lot of progress in history (herbs and medicines) have been found exactly this way, through trial and error and some 'mystic' guess work. I don't think we are close to understanding the brain either.
    - hvidgaard 8y ago
      And a lot more and focused progress have been made by people that study the subjects extensively, and try "things" and scientifically measure the impact.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
austinjp 8y ago
By no means my area of expertise, but a quick glance suggests: The experimenters set up a system that could detect slow-wave (SW) fluctuations in brain activity. They used trans-cranial magnetic stimulation (electro-magnets on the scalp) to "augment" this SW activity. This seems to have improved memory, measured by some specific learning task they set for the participants. Trans-cranial magnetic stimulation is becoming popular in trans-human type circles. Apparently it's becoming feasible to do at home with cheap off the shelf components. However, of course, the long term effects and side effects are poorly understood. This particular experiment used 16 participants (only three of whom were female, for some daft reason) so we can't draw any firm conclusions from this.
- h4b4n3r0 8y ago
  Not magnetic, electric it looks like. I’m not sure how I feel about running electrical current through my brain.
  - onemoresoop 8y ago
    ECT(Electroconvulsive therapy) is already a thing - it is used for various treatments for depression and seizures. It consists of small electric currents passing through the brain which is very similar to brain stimulation, the only difference is that he first one is a medical procedure while the latter is, as of now, more like a brain hack. I wouldn't recommend anyone doing it without knowing the risks involved.
    - inetsee 8y ago
      I don't think it's accurate to describe ECT as using small electric currents. The very name says that the procedure induces convulsions. From Wikipedia: "ECT is often used with informed consent as a last line of intervention for major depressive disorder, mania, and catatonia. ECT machines have been placed in the Class II category (special controls) by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) since 1976." (Emphasis mine.)
      - 8y ago

0xB0D 8y ago

Electroshock while you sleep. Sounds wonderful. https://youtu.be/NUeNzCBqhu8 https://youtu.be/NUeNzCBqhu8

aalleavitch 8y ago

We already do this it's called dreaming.

laverick 8y ago

Looks like they use Transcranial Alternating Current Stimulation (tACS). The military has been doing tDCS (direct current) experiments for a while for increased learning & performance. I had a friend who used to swear by tDCS and did it very frequently. He attributed all kinds of mood & cognition improvements to it, including substantially reduced need for sleep, improved eyesight (he was born partially blind), etc. He also complained about migraines a lot and liked to experiment with all kinds of supplements, so YMMV. Tried tDCS myself a handful of times, not for improved learning but for improved focus. If applied correctly it definitely has an effect that I'd consider better / stronger than a cup of coffee. I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it regularly though. There's a subreddit that used to be pretty active: https://www.reddit.com/r/tDCS/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tDCS/ And here's a good Radiolab podcast, including DARPA Sniper experiments, etc: https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/9-volt-nirvana/ https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/9-volt-nirvana/

CamelCaseName 8y ago
Some of the posts on that subreddit are seriously concerning. Burns on your head/arms seem to be common. One company in particular, "Foc.us", seems particularly dangerous.
- amelius 8y ago
  Interesting tidbit: the foc.us manual says: "If you see white flashes (known as phosphenes), adjust the position of the foc.us headset away from your eyes"
  - redisman 8y ago
    This seems like a really stupid thing to experiment in. Wait a few years and find out you permanently damaged your brain for a "caffeine-like" boost.
- JoshMnem 8y ago
  And IQ scores: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150505152140.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150505152140.h...

Jedd 8y ago

Is there some aspect of this that's quite new? I'm reading Why We Sleep (Matthew Walker), published 2017-09 - an HN recommendation from a while back - and I've just read the chapter where he describes an experiment that sounds exactly like this (as in, same approach, same outcomes).

JoshMnem 8y ago

Read this before self-experimenting: "Popular electric brain stimulation method used to boost brainpower is detrimental to IQ scores" https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150505152140.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150505152140.h...

chrisweekly 8y ago

Binaural beats / audio-based brainwave manipulation seems a much, much safer approach!

cryoshon 8y ago
is there any evidence that this can actually work?
- lowdest 8y ago
  Anecdote: I self-experimented with binaural beats some years ago. I did not notice anything regarding concentration, but I did find that tones starting in the normal awake/aware range and sliding linearly down to the slower, deep sleep range over 15-20 minutes would reliably cause me to fall asleep. I ultimately layered that audio behind a guided meditation relaxation track I found online and used the combination as a sleep aid for a few years.
- copperx 8y ago
  Absolutely none.

robg 8y ago

Interesting to consider if an unintended common cause of tACS is better encouraging lymphatic cleaning processes, especially where evidence is accumulating of the role of the dura mater. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05763-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-05763-0

darepublic 8y ago

I want to buy one of these devices but it seems risky and difficult to do so.