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OpenBazaar[0] already is this idea. I just checked the github post and one of the committers to openbazaar-go has left a nice lengthy comment explaining why/ho

OpenBazaar[0] already is this idea. I just checked the github post and one of the committers to openbazaar-go has left a nice lengthy comment explaining why/how[1]. Hopefully the people interested in Nile just put their support behind OpenBazaar instead. [0]: https://openbazaar.org/ https://openbazaar.org/ [1] https://github.com/open-source-ideas/open-source-ideas/issues/78#issuecomment-410764389 https://github.com/open-source-ideas/open-source-ideas/issue...

Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
OpenBazaar is tied to cryptocurrency, which makes it a non-starter.
- s73v3r_ 8y ago
  It can't be that hard to change it to use whatever payment processor the seller wants, shouldn't it?
  - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
    Well, it's probably require a fork. Cryptocurrency is already tightly integrated with OpenBazaar. This also removes all of the platform's credibility in my eyes.
    - antidesitter 8y ago
      Why does it remove all of the platform’s credibility in your eyes?
      - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
        Because it shows that they're more interested in riding the crypto hype wave than in solving real problems.
        antidesitter 8y ago
        they're more interested in riding the crypto hype wave than in solving real problems On what basis do you make that accusation? And how does supporting cryptocurrency preclude them from solving "real problems", whatever that means?
        Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
        Because cryptocurrency is clearly the wrong solution to this problem. If they actually wanted to make a decentralized marketplace non-technical people can use they would not have used cryptocurrency.
        antidesitter 8y ago
        cryptocurrency is clearly the wrong solution to this problem Why is it the "wrong" solution to making a decentralized marketplace? What's the "right" solution?
        s73v3r_ 8y ago
        Something that the local people are actually using.
        antidesitter 8y ago
        Can you be more specific? Are you referring to cash?
        baq 8y ago
        Exactly. Or credit/debit cards.
        antidesitter 8y ago
        How do you propose cash transactions be carried out over the internet? How do credit/debit cards satisfy the proposition of a decentralized marketplace?
    - SamPatt 8y ago
      We would absolutely welcome attempts to integrate other forms of payment into OpenBazaar. Our escrow system currently relies on multisig but that's the only significant impediment to adoption.
- hardwaresofton 8y ago
  I get the desire to avoid cryptocurrency in general but as a technology it is a good fit (quite possibly the only fit, I'm not sure what other decentralized payment systems are out there) for what they want to achieve. There has been discussion on whether they accept other forms of payment[0] (probably lots and lots of times), and supposedly they'll take PRs. Maybe someone should write an external payment API that really just acts like a dummy "blockchain" and works off of human verifications (along with some sort of trust score). That, or someone could theoretically create a blockchain that did nothing but validate payments on other platforms (I have no idea how it would work but it seems possible), so a payment on the imaginary blockchain would equal a confirmed payment on some payment platform with sufficient API support. [EDIT]- found another thread[1] [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/2lddjy/besides_bitcoin_will_it_be_possible_any_other/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/2lddjy/besides_... [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/531vui/openbazaar_should_not_impose_payment_restrictions/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/531vui/openbaza...
  - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
    Or you could rip all of this BS out and just integrate with existing, non-decentralized payment processors, and avoid alienating all non-technical users in the process.
    - antidesitter 8y ago
      Do you know why OpenBazaar chose to support cryptocurrency?
      - QML 8y ago
        There's a lot of information already here [1], but I might add it'd be easier to create a Bitcoin wallet for each user than to open a PayPal or Stripe account for each. [1] https://openbazaar.org/features/ https://openbazaar.org/features/
        mkirklions 8y ago
- arisAlexis 8y ago
  why a non-starter can you explain? cryptocurrency is very good for these use cases
SamPatt 8y ago
I work on OpenBazaar and want to add that we've built it to support people creating custom front end clients for their own particular use case and are not compelled at all to use the reference client. So they can use the OpenBazaar backend but still have the local focus they want by making a new front end. We've been working on decentralized ecommerce for a long time and I would love for a fresh group of developers to take a look at it and give us their thoughts. It's all MIT licensed open source.
- hardwaresofton 8y ago
  I think it would be really good to finally take a solid stance on creating a path to deal with payments made outside the platform. It seems like it could just be generalized and tied into the reputation system[0]. Basically just let users claim they've paid and let buyers claim they've received payment through whatever outside-platform method. [0]: https://www.openbazaar.org/blog/decentralized-reputation-in-openbazaar/ https://www.openbazaar.org/blog/decentralized-reputation-in-...
- jaxtellerSoA 8y ago
  How does a distributed market (like OpenBazaar) deal with trust? Is every transaction put into escrow? The idea of a open, distributed market, is great. But the reality of scammers, cheaters, etc. is a big hurdle to over come. One of the great things about Amazon is the customer service, I don't really worry about not getting a product, or if I need to return an item to Amazon I am also confident that it won't be an issue. This seems really hard to accomplish in a distributed system with lots of small "shops".
  - SamPatt 8y ago
    There are two types of payments in OpenBazaar: direct and moderated. Direct is when buyers completely trust vendors. There's no escrow and no safety net at all. Moderated is when both parties agree to a third party moderator and the funds go into a two of three multisig account. Two parties need to agree to release the funds. Normally it's the buyer and seller but if they can't agree then they open a dispute with the moderator, who resolves the dispute and sends the funds to rhe winning party (or slipts them). Moderators get a small percentage payout when disputes are settled. It's an open marketplace for offering moderator services. The moderator doesn't have complete control of the funds (two parties are needed) and they aren't even aware of the transaction until a dispute was opened, so it has some advantages over traditional centralized escrow services.
fiatjaf 8y ago
OpenBazaar isn't well-suited for local transactions. It could be, I would love that, but currently I can only select _my entire country_ as a delivery area. That's insane. Brazil is huge and I can only deliver to my neighborhood.
- SamPatt 8y ago
  You can use an address and not just the whole country. But yes, OpenBazaar currently isn't built for local communities. A feature we want to add eventually.
hinkley 8y ago
We are better off with two platforms poaching ideas from each other. As long as it stays two or three this is a good thing. If it turns into twelve I’ll be right there beside you with a torch and a pitchfork. Until then I’m sticking with popcorn.
- SamPatt 8y ago
  OpenBazaar isn't the only decentralized marketplace out there, but it is the only one with any significant adoption. It took four years to get there so rebuilding from scratch seems unwise when it's open source and you could add you own improvements or just fork it.

Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago

OpenBazaar is tied to cryptocurrency, which makes it a non-starter.

s73v3r_ 8y ago
It can't be that hard to change it to use whatever payment processor the seller wants, shouldn't it?
- Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
  Well, it's probably require a fork. Cryptocurrency is already tightly integrated with OpenBazaar. This also removes all of the platform's credibility in my eyes.
  - antidesitter 8y ago
    Why does it remove all of the platform’s credibility in your eyes?
    - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
      Because it shows that they're more interested in riding the crypto hype wave than in solving real problems.
      - antidesitter 8y ago
        they're more interested in riding the crypto hype wave than in solving real problems On what basis do you make that accusation? And how does supporting cryptocurrency preclude them from solving "real problems", whatever that means?
        Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
        Because cryptocurrency is clearly the wrong solution to this problem. If they actually wanted to make a decentralized marketplace non-technical people can use they would not have used cryptocurrency.
        antidesitter 8y ago
        cryptocurrency is clearly the wrong solution to this problem Why is it the "wrong" solution to making a decentralized marketplace? What's the "right" solution?
        s73v3r_ 8y ago
        Something that the local people are actually using.
        antidesitter 8y ago
        Can you be more specific? Are you referring to cash?
        baq 8y ago
        Exactly. Or credit/debit cards.
        antidesitter 8y ago
        How do you propose cash transactions be carried out over the internet? How do credit/debit cards satisfy the proposition of a decentralized marketplace?
  - SamPatt 8y ago
    We would absolutely welcome attempts to integrate other forms of payment into OpenBazaar. Our escrow system currently relies on multisig but that's the only significant impediment to adoption.
hardwaresofton 8y ago
I get the desire to avoid cryptocurrency in general but as a technology it is a good fit (quite possibly the only fit, I'm not sure what other decentralized payment systems are out there) for what they want to achieve. There has been discussion on whether they accept other forms of payment[0] (probably lots and lots of times), and supposedly they'll take PRs. Maybe someone should write an external payment API that really just acts like a dummy "blockchain" and works off of human verifications (along with some sort of trust score). That, or someone could theoretically create a blockchain that did nothing but validate payments on other platforms (I have no idea how it would work but it seems possible), so a payment on the imaginary blockchain would equal a confirmed payment on some payment platform with sufficient API support. [EDIT]- found another thread[1] [0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/2lddjy/besides_bitcoin_will_it_be_possible_any_other/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/2lddjy/besides_... [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/531vui/openbazaar_should_not_impose_payment_restrictions/ https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/531vui/openbaza...
- Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
  Or you could rip all of this BS out and just integrate with existing, non-decentralized payment processors, and avoid alienating all non-technical users in the process.
  - antidesitter 8y ago
    Do you know why OpenBazaar chose to support cryptocurrency?
    - QML 8y ago
      There's a lot of information already here [1], but I might add it'd be easier to create a Bitcoin wallet for each user than to open a PayPal or Stripe account for each. [1] https://openbazaar.org/features/ https://openbazaar.org/features/
      - mkirklions 8y ago
arisAlexis 8y ago
why a non-starter can you explain? cryptocurrency is very good for these use cases

SamPatt 8y ago

I work on OpenBazaar and want to add that we've built it to support people creating custom front end clients for their own particular use case and are not compelled at all to use the reference client. So they can use the OpenBazaar backend but still have the local focus they want by making a new front end. We've been working on decentralized ecommerce for a long time and I would love for a fresh group of developers to take a look at it and give us their thoughts. It's all MIT licensed open source.

hardwaresofton 8y ago
I think it would be really good to finally take a solid stance on creating a path to deal with payments made outside the platform. It seems like it could just be generalized and tied into the reputation system[0]. Basically just let users claim they've paid and let buyers claim they've received payment through whatever outside-platform method. [0]: https://www.openbazaar.org/blog/decentralized-reputation-in-openbazaar/ https://www.openbazaar.org/blog/decentralized-reputation-in-...
jaxtellerSoA 8y ago
How does a distributed market (like OpenBazaar) deal with trust? Is every transaction put into escrow? The idea of a open, distributed market, is great. But the reality of scammers, cheaters, etc. is a big hurdle to over come. One of the great things about Amazon is the customer service, I don't really worry about not getting a product, or if I need to return an item to Amazon I am also confident that it won't be an issue. This seems really hard to accomplish in a distributed system with lots of small "shops".
- SamPatt 8y ago
  There are two types of payments in OpenBazaar: direct and moderated. Direct is when buyers completely trust vendors. There's no escrow and no safety net at all. Moderated is when both parties agree to a third party moderator and the funds go into a two of three multisig account. Two parties need to agree to release the funds. Normally it's the buyer and seller but if they can't agree then they open a dispute with the moderator, who resolves the dispute and sends the funds to rhe winning party (or slipts them). Moderators get a small percentage payout when disputes are settled. It's an open marketplace for offering moderator services. The moderator doesn't have complete control of the funds (two parties are needed) and they aren't even aware of the transaction until a dispute was opened, so it has some advantages over traditional centralized escrow services.

fiatjaf 8y ago

OpenBazaar isn't well-suited for local transactions. It could be, I would love that, but currently I can only select _my entire country_ as a delivery area. That's insane. Brazil is huge and I can only deliver to my neighborhood.

SamPatt 8y ago
You can use an address and not just the whole country. But yes, OpenBazaar currently isn't built for local communities. A feature we want to add eventually.

hinkley 8y ago

We are better off with two platforms poaching ideas from each other. As long as it stays two or three this is a good thing. If it turns into twelve I’ll be right there beside you with a torch and a pitchfork. Until then I’m sticking with popcorn.

SamPatt 8y ago
OpenBazaar isn't the only decentralized marketplace out there, but it is the only one with any significant adoption. It took four years to get there so rebuilding from scratch seems unwise when it's open source and you could add you own improvements or just fork it.