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Beyond the finances, Tesla says they’re still on target for 6000 Model 3’s a week by the end of the month. Throw in the other Models and Tesla will be shipping

Beyond the finances, Tesla says they’re still on target for 6000 Model 3’s a week by the end of the month. Throw in the other Models and Tesla will be shipping 300,000-400,000 electric cars a year. That’s quite an accomplishment.

geerlingguy 8y ago
I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing decent car like a Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, etc. and redesign it electric? I know it's a different drivetrain/architecture, but why not a standard looking body instead of some weird buggy space-age thing?
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Innovator’s dilemma. EVs compete against existing combustion vehicles and all of the capex and supply chain that goes with it. Have to be willing to cannibalize part of your own market to succeed. Tall order for most.
- Nition 8y ago
  Toyota has a Corolla hybrid option now too, which seems to further support your case that they could do a full electric conversion as well if they really wanted to.
- Puer 8y ago
  Because car companies are horridly shortsighted. All of the major US car makers right now are doubling down on building gas-guzzling pickup trucks and SUVs because they have a nice profit margin and because Americans love commuting alone downtown in traffic every day in their seats 7, 20 mpg abominations with trunks and beds that are never used. Maybe it's what's necessary to survive in the moment and maybe the moment is the nature of the car industry, but all of these car producers seem to forget what happens when gas prices rise and the economy slows. Maybe then they'll actually innovate, but in terms of technology they're already playing catchup to Tesla. If Tesla can figure out how to produce these cars steadily traditional car makers are in trouble.
  - tedunangst 8y ago
    If you sell a gas car today, you can sell the same customer an electric car tomorrow.
    - rconti 8y ago
      In theory, yes. We just drove our Model 3 home 13 days ago. IF you want an electric car, nothing else on the market has the compelling mix of features that the 3 has, IMO. I'm a big BMW fan, and they keep promising that they'll be selling normal electric cars Real Soon Like Now, but frankly, most automaker efforts are either 'weird' electrics like the i3 or Leaf or Bolt (which have their own range or fast charging network issues), or PROMISES to bolt electric motors to existing cars like the 3 series. It's great that they think that will magically result in an electric car, but it doesn't resolve the fast charging network issues, I've seen no real promises of charging network investments, UI that makes it easy to find said chargers, etc. Maybe it's in the works, I don't know, but the fact that they're not even publicizing whatever efforts they're making mean that they're not making a splash in the market; they're not trying hard enough. The 3 feels like a substantially different rethink of the car; it's on when I touch the door handle (or sooner, if I start the A/C via the app). Other automakers seem lost in the "take a car, remove the gas engine, replace with electric motors, and BAM, electric car!" mindset.
      - AshleyGrant 8y ago
        >I'm a big BMW fan, and they keep promising that they'll be selling normal electric cars Real Soon Like Now I feel ya. I'm a chapter officer in the BMW Car Club, but we just placed an order for a Model 3 for my wife on Saturday. The only thing even remotely on the horizon for BMW is the iX3, which will be produced in China (even though BMW produces all X3s in the US currently). It will only have 250 miles of range. And it launches in 2020. I currently drive a 530e plugin hybrid. I tell anyone who will listen not to waste their time with it. It has 15-20 miles of real world EV-only range. I live in a small town and it typically isn't enough for me to drive across town and back if I have the AC on. If I wasn't so upside down on the lease (12 months in), I'd be ordering myself a Model 3. My wife made me get rid of the 2015 M3 I had prior to the 530e. I greatly miss that vehicle, but now the joke is that she's going to be the one with an M3. Just a slightly different kind of M3. My next vehicle is not likely to be a BMW. It is mostly likely to be either a Tesla or a Porsche Taycan. Maybe BMW will have something worth my time in 2023. And it's so sad as they were ahead of the curve with the i3. And then they did... nothing.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  I assume that the established auto manufacturers are hamstrung by deep-rooted affiliations with big oil. Who are the sponsors slathered all over their race cars? Petrol companies.
- bmelton 8y ago
  > but why not a standard looking body instead of some weird buggy space-age thing? I think they're still counting on the signaling. It's said that the Prius was bought by so many in large part because it looked so goofy, in that it didn't look like anything else, so everybody knew it was a Prius, which by proxy meant that you were driving green. Tesla shook that up, but styling still remains something withheld for the maximum dollars. There are very few stylish cars at cheaper price points because they know that despite whatever features are there, people shop with their eyes predominately. If they happen to land on a design that's too fetching for the price point they're targeting, it seems likely that they'd uglify it somewhat and withhold the better design for a more expensive vehicle that they may or may not plan to make.
  - JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > it seems likely that they'd uglify it somewhat and withhold the better design for a more expensive vehicle Source? Many flashy design elements are expensive to fabricate.
  - MrRadar 8y ago
    Tesla has the ability to make "normal"-looking cars because the brand itself signals the owner is environmentally-conscious. The "traditional" automakers could probably get away with the same thing if they had exclusively-electric sub-brands (GM should bring back Saturn as an EV-exclusive brand, IMO).
    - erk__ 8y ago
      Tesla may be "normal" looking where you come from but the are pretty easy to spot here because they are wider than pretty much every other car.
  - coredog64 8y ago
    The Gen-1 Prius didn't look much different from any other "used bar of soap" compact that Toyota made. The Gen-2 did have a unique body style, but I put that down to aero requirements to hit fuel economy targets.
  - 8y ago
- jakelarkin 8y ago
  the ugliness is intentional, and i think this was even acknowledge by bmw execs to an extent. the margins on EV are comparitively very low, the (battery) supply chain is fragile. less profit + production headaches = don't make the product any more appealing than it needs to be
- aurailious 8y ago
  Volvo will have one soon to compete with the Y.
- zjaffee 8y ago
  Because battery technology isn't where it needs to be yet, where Tesla is absolutely winning when it comes to this. Honda released their plug in Honda Clarity, but it only has a range of 89 miles.
  - giobox 8y ago
    This simply isn't true - the Chevrolet Bolt has an EPA-estimate 238 mile range, with many reviewers getting close to 300. Pretty much what you get in a base Model 3. What's more you can actually walk into a dealership and buy a Bolt today, good luck trying that with a Model 3. It also costs almost 15 grand less than the cheapest Model 3 Tesla is currently shipping, given they still don't have a release date for the mythical 35k mass market version. Batteries are increasingly just a commodity, and will become more so as the rest of the industry ramps up electric car production.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Supercharger network, OTA updates, superior driver assist system, superior warranty. I’d wait for a Model 3 instead of buying a Bolt off the lot. Range isn’t everything.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - iainmerrick 8y ago
        Can you pay extra to get a car that just works, and no OTA updates?
        toomuchtodo 8y ago
        No. Not a vehicle for the paranoid (not used as a derogatory term).
    - djrogers 8y ago
      There are a lot of automotive buying decisions where you can save $15k by purchasing a smaller, slower, uglier car. It’s not a choice people always make.
- mtw 8y ago
  One of the design constraint comes from the size of batteries. This is the battery for a Toyota Camry hybrid, a car with very limited electric range : https://images.hgmsites.net/med/toyota-camry-hybrid-battery-pack-repair-by-imgur-user-scoodidabop_100502034_m.jpg https://images.hgmsites.net/med/toyota-camry-hybrid-battery-... Imagine the size required for Prius batteries or other electric cars! They just didn't come up one day with the idea of selling ugly cars
  - beaner 8y ago
    Most of the ugliness in electric vehicles is not in their bulk/shape, but in the unnecessary and ugly flairs that manufacturers put all over them. Just freaking remove that crap. As for batteries, why can't they just make it wider and flatter and put it at the bottom, like tesla?
    - sizzle 8y ago
      I agree look at this weird styling on the Honda clarity PHEV. Rear fenders and tail end are hideous imo https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/171205_081_honda_764A3622-2-640x354.jpg https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/17120...
  - Retric 8y ago
    That’s significantly smaller than a gass tank. Picture 3+ 5 gallon water containers as they hold 15+ gallons. You are also removing the engine and exhaust system. Look just look at a muffler some time they are huge. Go a little further and remove the axle and giant transmission and suddenly you have a lot of space under a car.
  - coredog64 8y ago
    I just had the traction battery in my Gen 2 Prius replaced. It's not really any larger than what's in the Camry. There was a hack for the Gen 2 Prius that allowed EV only operation, and the maximum distance on that was less than 10 miles. Unless you're looking at one of the new plug-in Prius implementations, the batteries they use aren't really all that large.
- MarkusAllen 8y ago
  We are about a year away from the Byton Electric Car here in the good 'ol USA - way better than any Tesla: https://www.byton.com https://www.byton.com
  - jsight 8y ago
    I'll believe it if I see it. I'd be really surprised if they have anything in the US before 2021 or 2022.
  - aphextron 8y ago
    I wouldn't count on any Chinese car passing US road safety testing any time soon.
  - rconti 8y ago
    Don't forget the Faraday Future and the relaunch of the Fisker!
- mikepavone 8y ago
  > Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Given that Ford is largely abandoning sedans, it would seem that they're not particularly popular anymore. The Leaf and Bolt aren't all that weird looking for hatchbacks. Original Leaf had some weird-ish features (like the headlights), but mostly had a similar profile to the Nissan Versa hatchback. The new 2018 model is very ordinary looking. The Chevy Bolt has a pretty similar shape to the Chevy Spark. It's not a very sexy shape, but it's a practical one.
  - iainmerrick 8y ago
    Tangential question: why do people prefer sedans over hatchbacks? Hatchbacks seem a lot more practical than sedans with no obvious downside. I can see people preferring the looks of one or the other, but neither is objectively prettier.
    - acover 8y ago
      Hatchbacks cost more
      - iainmerrick 8y ago
        I was going to say you’re wrong, but apparently in the US you’re right! Very strange. I think that is a US-specific thing. For some reason US customers prefer sedans (maybe some of the reasons given by other commenters) and that has probably skewed the market a bit (e.g. hatchbacks are only sold at higher trim levels since they’re marketed as a niche product). Edit to add: and maybe there’s a feedback effect too? Hatchbacks are more expensive because they’re less popular, so then they’re less popular because they’re more expensive.
        com2kid 8y ago
        > I was going to say you’re wrong, but apparently in the US you’re right! Very strange. Depends on brand. Kia charges the same either way.
        8y ago
- avar 8y ago
  Hyundai makes something similar to an electric Honda Civic, the Hyundai Ioniq Electric: https://www.hyundaiusa.com/ioniq-electric/index.aspx https://www.hyundaiusa.com/ioniq-electric/index.aspx It's "affordable" at $30k, but it has 1/2 the range of the Model 3 at around 130 miles, which I think tells you a lot. This technology is still at a price point where you need to make significant trade-offs between range and price. A new Honda Civic is something like $20k by comparison, and without the range anxiety. Still, I see a lot more of the these Hyundai Ioniqs here in Amsterdam after they were released, particularly as workhorse vehicles like local taxis. Part of that's government incentives to use electric vehicles, European customers having lower range requirements, and that gas is still practically given away for free in the US compared to what it costs in the EU.
  - pseudocook 8y ago
    If you just want affordable, you can get a 2012 Nissan Leaf that gets about 85 miles per charge for $7000 asking price on Craigslist. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/d/2012-nissan-leaf/6658747579.html https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/d/2012-nissan-leaf/6658...
- chaostheory 8y ago
  > I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. It looks better than the Bolt or Leaf https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/volt-plug-in-hybrid https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/volt-plug-in-hybrid EV range is about 55 miles Gas range is about 250 miles
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- devy 8y ago
  > At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Yeah, Nissan LEAF and Chevy Bolt might not look great but they are far more affordable. With heavy federal and state incentives (and sometime as much as $10k incentives from local utility companies), you are talking about half or even as little as a third of the Model 3 MSRP. [1][2] [1]: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110809_lots-of-ways-to-get-10k-off-2017-nissan-leaf-electric-car-by-end-of-june https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110809_lots-of-ways-to... [2]: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113092_costco-members-can-now-get-gm-supplier-pricing-on-chevy-bolt-ev-volt https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113092_costco-members-...
- Redoubts 8y ago
  There also was the VW e-Golf, though they stopped making them in 2018. I'm not sure if that means anything for other manufacturers. https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/30/volkswagens-decision-to-not-offer-a-mass-market-e-golf-focus-on-48v-hybrid-instead-raises-questions/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/30/volkswagens-decision-to...
  - nickserv 8y ago
    There's still the Golf GT-E which looks pretty sweet, shared platform with the Audi e-tron. Finally a mainstream plug in hybrid with good performance. Now, about the price...
- Theodores 8y ago
  Each to their own, however the Leaf looks good in its 2018 refresh, the earlier model was a design abomination but some people bought them. In Europe with tighter roads and enough charging stations springing up the new Leaf is looking more desirable than the Model 3. The range has increased on the Leaf for 2018 and with the growing infrastructure in charging I am not sure everyone needs the increased range of the 3. Nissan have earned their spurs in EV, as have Tesla obviously. I would be happy buying from them due to their innovation and design effort. I would not buy an electric VW Golf or even an electric Smart Car as that ground up engineering hasn't been done, it is a mere retro-fit of an existing fossil-burner. I think the fossil-burner marques that thought they could just put some batteries in the back seat and rip out the ICE did so for regulatory lip-service reasons, a bit like how Aston Martin came out with a re-badged Toyota iQ so that the average fuel consumption figures across their fleet could be lowered. Clearly it is not in the Aston Martin DNA to make a car that is vaguely safe outside school gates. Neither has it been in the DNA of the Big Three or the German auto companies to want to do electric power properly. I don't know what the Chevy Bolt is there for, however I think the Nissan Leaf has grown into something that suits the European market really well. Teslas are a bit too land-yacht sized for Europe plus European buyers have different standards when it comes to panel fit. Even the 'autopilot' is ridiculous in European markets where there are 'roads and motorways' not 'highways, surface roads and the interstate'. The ludicrous mode is nice to have but the novelty has worn off. The Leaf is quicker on the 0-60 times than the Nissan Qashqai and able to compete at the lights with pimped fossil burners, that is enough, there is no need for it to trounce passing Ferraris. The BMW i3 fits a niche in London as it is compact enough to actually park. People can sneak into EV only parking spots and avoid congestion charges. There are people able to pay the premium for these benefits, they are not necessarily wanting to go green, just have private transport and be able to park it. Tesla are working their way down from the top of the market and it could be a while before they create an 'econobox'. Realistically there is a good chance that the car you want comes from elsewhere, e.g. China, and that it has new technology such as a much smaller battery coupled to a supercapacitor for regen/city economy. Waiting for the fossil burning marques to produce something is a waste of time, EV is not in their DNA.
- PopsiclePete 8y ago
  I believe it's for the exact same reason other Big Companies are incapable of delivering anything "exciting": 1. Soulless design-by-committee. 2. Complex internal politics - "Cool idea you have there with the Prius, but I don't want to see it become too successful and eat into the sales of the Corolla. We need to sell 200k Corollas or I don't get my bonus". 3. The "proven" technique of having focus groups with a diverse crowd of aged-35+ white suburban soccer moms tell you what features they value in a car the most.
  - MagnumOpus 8y ago
    That, but also the aim to serve the mass market rather than the 1%, and therefore the need to produce a car that is profitable when sold for 25k rather than 65k.
- madengr 8y ago
  Probably has to look buggy to keep it compact with sufficient headroom. I’m 6’5” and still have 2” headroom in my Leaf, which is awesome considering it is a compact car. I can also put the seat all the way back and fit an adult behind me. Can’t do that in a Prius or Volt due to their sleekness. I have not been in a Tesla, but I’m guessing the 3 has poor headroom compared to the Leaf.
- icebraining 8y ago
  The Jaguar I‑PACE looks pretty good to me, though not cheap.
salimmadjd 8y ago
I’m reading it as “we aim” sounds like a goal. They’re expecting Expecting to produce 50-55k Model 3s in Q3 Which falls below the 5000/week
- cycrutchfield 8y ago
  It's the difference between max and average
  - nolok 8y ago
    For a company that has consistently been FAR below their production target, that's the difference between a press marketing material and reality.
kgwgk 8y ago
And they say that they "have repeated weekly production of approximately 5,000 Model 3 cars multiple times" in July. But they expect to produce 50-55k Model 3 vehicles in Q3 (i.e. ~4000 per week at the midpoint), so it's not clear what those 5000 or 6000 per week really mean.
idlewords 8y ago
It will be quite an accomplishment when they've demonstrated it. Talk is cheap with Tesla.

geerlingguy 8y ago

I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Just take an existing decent car like a Toyota Corolla, Honda Civic, etc. and redesign it electric? I know it's a different drivetrain/architecture, but why not a standard looking body instead of some weird buggy space-age thing?

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Innovator’s dilemma. EVs compete against existing combustion vehicles and all of the capex and supply chain that goes with it. Have to be willing to cannibalize part of your own market to succeed. Tall order for most.
Nition 8y ago
Toyota has a Corolla hybrid option now too, which seems to further support your case that they could do a full electric conversion as well if they really wanted to.
Puer 8y ago
Because car companies are horridly shortsighted. All of the major US car makers right now are doubling down on building gas-guzzling pickup trucks and SUVs because they have a nice profit margin and because Americans love commuting alone downtown in traffic every day in their seats 7, 20 mpg abominations with trunks and beds that are never used. Maybe it's what's necessary to survive in the moment and maybe the moment is the nature of the car industry, but all of these car producers seem to forget what happens when gas prices rise and the economy slows. Maybe then they'll actually innovate, but in terms of technology they're already playing catchup to Tesla. If Tesla can figure out how to produce these cars steadily traditional car makers are in trouble.
- tedunangst 8y ago
  If you sell a gas car today, you can sell the same customer an electric car tomorrow.
  - rconti 8y ago
    In theory, yes. We just drove our Model 3 home 13 days ago. IF you want an electric car, nothing else on the market has the compelling mix of features that the 3 has, IMO. I'm a big BMW fan, and they keep promising that they'll be selling normal electric cars Real Soon Like Now, but frankly, most automaker efforts are either 'weird' electrics like the i3 or Leaf or Bolt (which have their own range or fast charging network issues), or PROMISES to bolt electric motors to existing cars like the 3 series. It's great that they think that will magically result in an electric car, but it doesn't resolve the fast charging network issues, I've seen no real promises of charging network investments, UI that makes it easy to find said chargers, etc. Maybe it's in the works, I don't know, but the fact that they're not even publicizing whatever efforts they're making mean that they're not making a splash in the market; they're not trying hard enough. The 3 feels like a substantially different rethink of the car; it's on when I touch the door handle (or sooner, if I start the A/C via the app). Other automakers seem lost in the "take a car, remove the gas engine, replace with electric motors, and BAM, electric car!" mindset.
    - AshleyGrant 8y ago
      >I'm a big BMW fan, and they keep promising that they'll be selling normal electric cars Real Soon Like Now I feel ya. I'm a chapter officer in the BMW Car Club, but we just placed an order for a Model 3 for my wife on Saturday. The only thing even remotely on the horizon for BMW is the iX3, which will be produced in China (even though BMW produces all X3s in the US currently). It will only have 250 miles of range. And it launches in 2020. I currently drive a 530e plugin hybrid. I tell anyone who will listen not to waste their time with it. It has 15-20 miles of real world EV-only range. I live in a small town and it typically isn't enough for me to drive across town and back if I have the AC on. If I wasn't so upside down on the lease (12 months in), I'd be ordering myself a Model 3. My wife made me get rid of the 2015 M3 I had prior to the 530e. I greatly miss that vehicle, but now the joke is that she's going to be the one with an M3. Just a slightly different kind of M3. My next vehicle is not likely to be a BMW. It is mostly likely to be either a Tesla or a Porsche Taycan. Maybe BMW will have something worth my time in 2023. And it's so sad as they were ahead of the curve with the i3. And then they did... nothing.
newnewpdro 8y ago
I assume that the established auto manufacturers are hamstrung by deep-rooted affiliations with big oil. Who are the sponsors slathered all over their race cars? Petrol companies.
bmelton 8y ago
> but why not a standard looking body instead of some weird buggy space-age thing? I think they're still counting on the signaling. It's said that the Prius was bought by so many in large part because it looked so goofy, in that it didn't look like anything else, so everybody knew it was a Prius, which by proxy meant that you were driving green. Tesla shook that up, but styling still remains something withheld for the maximum dollars. There are very few stylish cars at cheaper price points because they know that despite whatever features are there, people shop with their eyes predominately. If they happen to land on a design that's too fetching for the price point they're targeting, it seems likely that they'd uglify it somewhat and withhold the better design for a more expensive vehicle that they may or may not plan to make.
- JumpCrisscross 8y ago
  > it seems likely that they'd uglify it somewhat and withhold the better design for a more expensive vehicle Source? Many flashy design elements are expensive to fabricate.
- MrRadar 8y ago
  Tesla has the ability to make "normal"-looking cars because the brand itself signals the owner is environmentally-conscious. The "traditional" automakers could probably get away with the same thing if they had exclusively-electric sub-brands (GM should bring back Saturn as an EV-exclusive brand, IMO).
  - erk__ 8y ago
    Tesla may be "normal" looking where you come from but the are pretty easy to spot here because they are wider than pretty much every other car.
- coredog64 8y ago
  The Gen-1 Prius didn't look much different from any other "used bar of soap" compact that Toyota made. The Gen-2 did have a unique body style, but I put that down to aero requirements to hit fuel economy targets.
- 8y ago
jakelarkin 8y ago
the ugliness is intentional, and i think this was even acknowledge by bmw execs to an extent. the margins on EV are comparitively very low, the (battery) supply chain is fragile. less profit + production headaches = don't make the product any more appealing than it needs to be
aurailious 8y ago
Volvo will have one soon to compete with the Y.
zjaffee 8y ago
Because battery technology isn't where it needs to be yet, where Tesla is absolutely winning when it comes to this. Honda released their plug in Honda Clarity, but it only has a range of 89 miles.
- giobox 8y ago
  This simply isn't true - the Chevrolet Bolt has an EPA-estimate 238 mile range, with many reviewers getting close to 300. Pretty much what you get in a base Model 3. What's more you can actually walk into a dealership and buy a Bolt today, good luck trying that with a Model 3. It also costs almost 15 grand less than the cheapest Model 3 Tesla is currently shipping, given they still don't have a release date for the mythical 35k mass market version. Batteries are increasingly just a commodity, and will become more so as the rest of the industry ramps up electric car production.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Supercharger network, OTA updates, superior driver assist system, superior warranty. I’d wait for a Model 3 instead of buying a Bolt off the lot. Range isn’t everything.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - iainmerrick 8y ago
      Can you pay extra to get a car that just works, and no OTA updates?
      - toomuchtodo 8y ago
        No. Not a vehicle for the paranoid (not used as a derogatory term).
  - djrogers 8y ago
    There are a lot of automotive buying decisions where you can save $15k by purchasing a smaller, slower, uglier car. It’s not a choice people always make.
mtw 8y ago
One of the design constraint comes from the size of batteries. This is the battery for a Toyota Camry hybrid, a car with very limited electric range : https://images.hgmsites.net/med/toyota-camry-hybrid-battery-pack-repair-by-imgur-user-scoodidabop_100502034_m.jpg https://images.hgmsites.net/med/toyota-camry-hybrid-battery-... Imagine the size required for Prius batteries or other electric cars! They just didn't come up one day with the idea of selling ugly cars
- beaner 8y ago
  Most of the ugliness in electric vehicles is not in their bulk/shape, but in the unnecessary and ugly flairs that manufacturers put all over them. Just freaking remove that crap. As for batteries, why can't they just make it wider and flatter and put it at the bottom, like tesla?
  - sizzle 8y ago
    I agree look at this weird styling on the Honda clarity PHEV. Rear fenders and tail end are hideous imo https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/171205_081_honda_764A3622-2-640x354.jpg https://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/17120...
- Retric 8y ago
  That’s significantly smaller than a gass tank. Picture 3+ 5 gallon water containers as they hold 15+ gallons. You are also removing the engine and exhaust system. Look just look at a muffler some time they are huge. Go a little further and remove the axle and giant transmission and suddenly you have a lot of space under a car.
- coredog64 8y ago
  I just had the traction battery in my Gen 2 Prius replaced. It's not really any larger than what's in the Camry. There was a hack for the Gen 2 Prius that allowed EV only operation, and the maximum distance on that was less than 10 miles. Unless you're looking at one of the new plug-in Prius implementations, the batteries they use aren't really all that large.
MarkusAllen 8y ago
We are about a year away from the Byton Electric Car here in the good 'ol USA - way better than any Tesla: https://www.byton.com https://www.byton.com
- jsight 8y ago
  I'll believe it if I see it. I'd be really surprised if they have anything in the US before 2021 or 2022.
- aphextron 8y ago
  I wouldn't count on any Chinese car passing US road safety testing any time soon.
- rconti 8y ago
  Don't forget the Faraday Future and the relaunch of the Fisker!
mikepavone 8y ago
> Why don't any other car companies offer a 'standard' mid size or compact sedan that's fully electric? Given that Ford is largely abandoning sedans, it would seem that they're not particularly popular anymore. The Leaf and Bolt aren't all that weird looking for hatchbacks. Original Leaf had some weird-ish features (like the headlights), but mostly had a similar profile to the Nissan Versa hatchback. The new 2018 model is very ordinary looking. The Chevy Bolt has a pretty similar shape to the Chevy Spark. It's not a very sexy shape, but it's a practical one.
- iainmerrick 8y ago
  Tangential question: why do people prefer sedans over hatchbacks? Hatchbacks seem a lot more practical than sedans with no obvious downside. I can see people preferring the looks of one or the other, but neither is objectively prettier.
  - acover 8y ago
    Hatchbacks cost more
    - iainmerrick 8y ago
      I was going to say you’re wrong, but apparently in the US you’re right! Very strange. I think that is a US-specific thing. For some reason US customers prefer sedans (maybe some of the reasons given by other commenters) and that has probably skewed the market a bit (e.g. hatchbacks are only sold at higher trim levels since they’re marketed as a niche product). Edit to add: and maybe there’s a feedback effect too? Hatchbacks are more expensive because they’re less popular, so then they’re less popular because they’re more expensive.
      - com2kid 8y ago
        > I was going to say you’re wrong, but apparently in the US you’re right! Very strange. Depends on brand. Kia charges the same either way.
      - 8y ago
avar 8y ago
Hyundai makes something similar to an electric Honda Civic, the Hyundai Ioniq Electric: https://www.hyundaiusa.com/ioniq-electric/index.aspx https://www.hyundaiusa.com/ioniq-electric/index.aspx It's "affordable" at $30k, but it has 1/2 the range of the Model 3 at around 130 miles, which I think tells you a lot. This technology is still at a price point where you need to make significant trade-offs between range and price. A new Honda Civic is something like $20k by comparison, and without the range anxiety. Still, I see a lot more of the these Hyundai Ioniqs here in Amsterdam after they were released, particularly as workhorse vehicles like local taxis. Part of that's government incentives to use electric vehicles, European customers having lower range requirements, and that gas is still practically given away for free in the US compared to what it costs in the EU.
- pseudocook 8y ago
  If you just want affordable, you can get a 2012 Nissan Leaf that gets about 85 miles per charge for $7000 asking price on Craigslist. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/d/2012-nissan-leaf/6658747579.html https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/d/2012-nissan-leaf/6658...
chaostheory 8y ago
> I wish other car companies would create more compelling and somewhat affordable electric cars. It looks better than the Bolt or Leaf https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/volt-plug-in-hybrid https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/volt-plug-in-hybrid EV range is about 55 miles Gas range is about 250 miles
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
devy 8y ago
> At least in the US, the only two cars I can think of (besides the Model 3, which is hard to come by) that move the needle at all are the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Bolt, both of which look... not great. Yeah, Nissan LEAF and Chevy Bolt might not look great but they are far more affordable. With heavy federal and state incentives (and sometime as much as $10k incentives from local utility companies), you are talking about half or even as little as a third of the Model 3 MSRP. [1][2] [1]: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110809_lots-of-ways-to-get-10k-off-2017-nissan-leaf-electric-car-by-end-of-june https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110809_lots-of-ways-to... [2]: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113092_costco-members-can-now-get-gm-supplier-pricing-on-chevy-bolt-ev-volt https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1113092_costco-members-...
Redoubts 8y ago
There also was the VW e-Golf, though they stopped making them in 2018. I'm not sure if that means anything for other manufacturers. https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/30/volkswagens-decision-to-not-offer-a-mass-market-e-golf-focus-on-48v-hybrid-instead-raises-questions/ https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/30/volkswagens-decision-to...
- nickserv 8y ago
  There's still the Golf GT-E which looks pretty sweet, shared platform with the Audi e-tron. Finally a mainstream plug in hybrid with good performance. Now, about the price...
Theodores 8y ago
Each to their own, however the Leaf looks good in its 2018 refresh, the earlier model was a design abomination but some people bought them. In Europe with tighter roads and enough charging stations springing up the new Leaf is looking more desirable than the Model 3. The range has increased on the Leaf for 2018 and with the growing infrastructure in charging I am not sure everyone needs the increased range of the 3. Nissan have earned their spurs in EV, as have Tesla obviously. I would be happy buying from them due to their innovation and design effort. I would not buy an electric VW Golf or even an electric Smart Car as that ground up engineering hasn't been done, it is a mere retro-fit of an existing fossil-burner. I think the fossil-burner marques that thought they could just put some batteries in the back seat and rip out the ICE did so for regulatory lip-service reasons, a bit like how Aston Martin came out with a re-badged Toyota iQ so that the average fuel consumption figures across their fleet could be lowered. Clearly it is not in the Aston Martin DNA to make a car that is vaguely safe outside school gates. Neither has it been in the DNA of the Big Three or the German auto companies to want to do electric power properly. I don't know what the Chevy Bolt is there for, however I think the Nissan Leaf has grown into something that suits the European market really well. Teslas are a bit too land-yacht sized for Europe plus European buyers have different standards when it comes to panel fit. Even the 'autopilot' is ridiculous in European markets where there are 'roads and motorways' not 'highways, surface roads and the interstate'. The ludicrous mode is nice to have but the novelty has worn off. The Leaf is quicker on the 0-60 times than the Nissan Qashqai and able to compete at the lights with pimped fossil burners, that is enough, there is no need for it to trounce passing Ferraris. The BMW i3 fits a niche in London as it is compact enough to actually park. People can sneak into EV only parking spots and avoid congestion charges. There are people able to pay the premium for these benefits, they are not necessarily wanting to go green, just have private transport and be able to park it. Tesla are working their way down from the top of the market and it could be a while before they create an 'econobox'. Realistically there is a good chance that the car you want comes from elsewhere, e.g. China, and that it has new technology such as a much smaller battery coupled to a supercapacitor for regen/city economy. Waiting for the fossil burning marques to produce something is a waste of time, EV is not in their DNA.
PopsiclePete 8y ago
I believe it's for the exact same reason other Big Companies are incapable of delivering anything "exciting": 1. Soulless design-by-committee. 2. Complex internal politics - "Cool idea you have there with the Prius, but I don't want to see it become too successful and eat into the sales of the Corolla. We need to sell 200k Corollas or I don't get my bonus". 3. The "proven" technique of having focus groups with a diverse crowd of aged-35+ white suburban soccer moms tell you what features they value in a car the most.
- MagnumOpus 8y ago
  That, but also the aim to serve the mass market rather than the 1%, and therefore the need to produce a car that is profitable when sold for 25k rather than 65k.
madengr 8y ago
Probably has to look buggy to keep it compact with sufficient headroom. I’m 6’5” and still have 2” headroom in my Leaf, which is awesome considering it is a compact car. I can also put the seat all the way back and fit an adult behind me. Can’t do that in a Prius or Volt due to their sleekness. I have not been in a Tesla, but I’m guessing the 3 has poor headroom compared to the Leaf.
icebraining 8y ago
The Jaguar I‑PACE looks pretty good to me, though not cheap.

salimmadjd 8y ago

I’m reading it as “we aim” sounds like a goal. They’re expecting Expecting to produce 50-55k Model 3s in Q3 Which falls below the 5000/week

cycrutchfield 8y ago
It's the difference between max and average
- nolok 8y ago
  For a company that has consistently been FAR below their production target, that's the difference between a press marketing material and reality.

kgwgk 8y ago

And they say that they "have repeated weekly production of approximately 5,000 Model 3 cars multiple times" in July. But they expect to produce 50-55k Model 3 vehicles in Q3 (i.e. ~4000 per week at the midpoint), so it's not clear what those 5000 or 6000 per week really mean.

idlewords 8y ago

It will be quite an accomplishment when they've demonstrated it. Talk is cheap with Tesla.