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New Video of F-117s Flying Out of Tonopah Despite Their Fates Being Sealed
- sgillen 8y agoMy guess is that they are still a useful platform to tear new radars against.
- toomuchtodo 8y agoThat is the thesis explicitly put forth in the middle of the article.
- Invictus0 8y agoWhy is it so difficult to put them in museums?
- packetized 8y agoWell, mostly the process of stripping their low-RCS paint. http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4729/the-toxic-death-paint-scheme-was-the-f-117-nighthawks-most-outrageous http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4729/the-toxic-death-pa...
- LeifCarrotson 8y agoSoda blasting? That's a ubiquitous process being performed literally all the time. Yeah, blasting, grinding, cutting, forging, and dozens of other industrial processes are nasty and messy, but that isn't the hassle. The problem here is secrecy and finding shops with a large enough blasting bay (there are thousands of auto body shops with bays for blasting full size trucks and other large vehicles - literally 15 on Google Maps within half an hour of me) and having laborers with top-secret clearance to do the work. All so 1970s tech can stay a secret.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- packetized 8y agoI would say all of that is part of the process of stripping low-RCS paint.
- stonemetal 8y agoI didn't realize full size trucks had gotten over 60 feet long and 40 feet wide.
- LeifCarrotson 8y agoSorry, wasn't very clear - the booths are usually 24x12 or so, sized to fit cars and trucks, not F117 size. That's part of the problem.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoThey're not but the point was that the size isn't all that special. A shop that blasts and paints bulldozers could do it.
- arprocter 8y agoInteresting how that stuff was apparently known to cause health problems by the people stripping the plane, but it also apparently wasn't to blame for folks getting sick at Groom Lake https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/area-51-burning-revealed/ https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/area-51-burning-revealed/
- h4b4n3r0 8y agoDoesn't seem likely that they even need to remove it. An F-117 was shot down over Yugoslavia using a modified microwave oven as a lure, and an antiquated Soviet-era anti-aircraft system. Its remains were handed over to the Russians _and_ the Chinese. TL/DR: the nations that we're worried about having the low-RCS paint already have the paint, and whatever was secret about it is secret no longer.
- donaltroddyn 8y agoThe article supposes that the paints were adapted and improved over time, so the paint on the airframes at retirement could be a decade more advanced, and that on current airframes could be two decades ahead, of that on the aircraft shot down.
- h4b4n3r0 8y agoPaint, maybe, though unlikely, but the airframe is almost certainly identical to the one that was shot down. The last F-117 was delivered to USAF in 1990. The aforementioned shoot-down was in 1999.
- anonymfus 8y agoMay be some parts of its construction are still secret?
- kens 8y agoThe article links to another article (http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21914/the-air-force-cant-say-what-it-plans-to-do-with-its-retired-b-2-bombers http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/21914/the-air-force-can...) that explains the difficulty with putting the F-117 or B-2 in museums. Not only does the toxic radar-absorbent paint need to be removed, but also all the secret internal components. Plus parts of the airframe need to be modified to avoid revealing classified features, including the complex radar-evading structure underneath its smooth skin.
- DanCarvajal 8y agoGot to see one in person at an airshow with my dad back in the late 90s. It was in an random hanger we were checking out. The main door was opened maybe five feet with a gate in front of it and guards were supervising people looking in. We had no idea what to expect. I will never forget looking around the door and there it was, gave me chills. It was the coolest thing I have ever, or will ever see. As is hackernews tradition, I will now recommend "Skunk Works" by Ben Rich, fantastic book.
- sean-duffy 8y agoSaw one at RIAT in the UK as recently as 2007. Again it was flanked by armed guards, and had the pilot standing in front of it sharing some stories.
- vvanders 8y agoYeah, they're quite something. They had one on display at one of the Miramar Airshow a few years back and it's really a unique airframe in person.
- hermitdev 8y agoI got to see one in the lates 90s at an air show in Montana. It was the only plane guarded (was also a B1 present) by at least 6 guards with SMGs. Still, was amazing. I didn't get to see it fly; it didnt fly during the show, only for delivery and departure. Also, +1 for "Skunk Works". Great read.
- rootusrootus 8y agoI went to an airshow in Oklahoma in 1995 or 1996 while I was still in the Air Force (it was a civilian airshow at Will Rogers airport, not a military airshow) and they had one parked out on static display. I walked under the wing, even touched the bottom of it. We also got a B-2 flyover, land, take-off, flyover, the same year. It was a great show.
- DanCarvajal 8y agoIt was actually the Oklahoma airshow where this happened, so odds are we could be talking about the same plane. My dad was at Tinker back then. Seriously those were phenomenal shows back in the day.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoA bloke I was talking to had an interesting theory as to why it was labeled the F-117, despite being a ground attack aircraft rather than a fighter, and the number being out of sequence (everyone was expecting an F-19. Around the same time as the F-117 aircraft was being developed, Pratt & Whitney PW2000 engine was being developed, which went on to be used in the C-17. The PW2000 was designated by the USAF as the F117 engine. By labelling the F-117 aircraft with the same designation, they were able to hide the development in plain sight. If anyone heard or saw anything about the F-117, they'd assume it was related to the engine, rather than the secret stealth aircraft. I've never read anything on the internet regarding this theory, but it's an interesting theory nonetheless.
- DrStalker 8y agoTanks are called tanks instead of "Caterpillar Machine Gun Destroyers" so the initial design could pretend to be a project related to mobile water tanks which gave an excuse for needing lots of steel plates and engine components. That story about the F-117/F117 is definitely plausible.
- arprocter 8y agoIt wouldn't be the first time - look at the U-2 (U normally indicating Utility, but it's a spy-plane)
- rurounijones 8y agoI remember seeing a documentary that had an interview with someone involved in the development who said it was designated F (Fighter) instead of B (Bomber) because it handled more like a fighter than a bomber so they wanted fighter pilots rather than bomber pilots. No fighter pilot would have applied for the B-117 so F it was. Don't really believe it but it is a funny thought.
- toomanybeersies 8y agoIt is an interesting thought, with some precedence. The F-111 Aardvark and the F-105 Thunderchief were labelled as fighter aircraft, but only ever used as bombers.
- a_d 8y agoOne of the closest experiences to flying this thing came in 1991, in the form of "F-117A Stealth Fighter" PC game, made by MicroProse. It was a masterpiece for its time in terms of the detailed console one had to learn to fly this. If you never play the game, you should just consider flipping through the incredible manual: http://www.abandonia.com/files/extras/25631_game_extra_1.pdf http://www.abandonia.com/files/extras/25631_game_extra_1.pdf The game and the manual had a ton of jargon that one had to learn to play the game, adding to the feeling of being in a real sim :) The section on evasion and defense systems was especially charming (Basically, this game was a dream for a kid who was into PC games and flying sims). The paper version that came with the box explained tons of small details about the plane e.g. how radar absorption paint works (I learned later from a documentary that F-117 had to be repainted after every mission, making maintenance very expensive). Two highlights of the gameplay were: a) landing on an aircraft carrier and b) learning capabilities of different types of missiles and how to deploy them (i.e. one was forced to read the manual!). When I hear about F-117, I can't help remember this hidden-gem PC game. Relevant links: 1) Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/328920/F117A_Nighthawk_Stealth_Fighter_20/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/328920/F117A_Nighthawk_St... 2) Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-117A_Nighthawk_Stealth_Fighter_2.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-117A_Nighthawk_Stealth_Fight...
- acranox 8y agoThere was a similar game with the F/A-18. It had a 250 page manual. I read that whole thing. It was probably the most I read when I was 14.
- rurounijones 8y agoIf you still interested in that kind of thing. Digital Combat Simulator (DCS) recently released the F/A-18C Hornet: https://www.airdailyx.net/article/f-a-18c-hornet-released-for-digital-combat-simulator-world/ https://www.airdailyx.net/article/f-a-18c-hornet-released-fo... Here is a video of a tutorial on CASE 1 carrier landings in the Hornet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuigBLhtAH8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuigBLhtAH8 Some of the DCS planes are study sim level (The A-10C Warhog, The KA-50 BlackShark, Mirage 2000, Viggten etc.) and the Hornet is going to join them (It is currently in beta and not complete). "Study Sim" here means that you could learn the game using the real life documentation for the real aircraft. (Although they do have game specific guides). A cheap'ish HOTAS (EDIT: See llimllib's comment below, the last link has examples. A Thrustmaster T-16000M is about 100 bucks ) is all you need harware wise.
- basementcat 8y agoIf anyone is interested, F-117's are on display at Blackbird Park at Palmdale, CA, Nellis Air Force Base north of Las Vegas, Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, Wright-Patterson AFB in Ohio, and Nikola Tesla Airport in Belgrade, Serbia (only portions of aircraft).
- arprocter 8y ago>(only portions of aircraft) The joke being that it was shot down https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk#Combat_loss https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_F-117_Nighthawk#Comba...
- walrus01 8y agoFor those who haven't heard of them before, people might find the Janet flights interesting: https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=janet+flights&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=jan... DoD commuter flights between Las Vegas and Groom Lake.
- raverbashing 8y agoSo, what's with the retirement of proven older aircraft in spite of the F35?
- sgt101 8y agoCost, two types of aircraft are much harder to keep in the air than lots of one. Also the f117s have many hours on them.
- mannykannot 8y agoI would guess that anti-stealth technology has also developed since it first flew. I wonder if the recovery of the wreckage of the F117 shot down over Bosnia can be assumed to have revealed ways to counter its technology?
- PhasmaFelis 8y agoFun fact: The F-117 looks like a low-poly model on an underpowered computer because that's exactly what it is. Optimizing the shape to minimize radar cross-section took a whole lot of math, and it got too complex for '70s-era supercomputers unless you stuck with flat surfaces. The B-2 Spirit stealth bomber was curvier because they had better computers by then.
- mobilemidget 8y agogeoblocked here :( getting redirected to https://geoscripts.meredith.services/public/html/no-access.html https://geoscripts.meredith.services/public/html/no-access.h...
- gchokov 8y agoThe web page you were trying to visit is not accessible in your country. What a shame. I live in Bulgaria, Europe.
- icebraining 8y agoThat's curious, loads fine in my EU country, there's only a GDPR interstitial.
- tim333 8y agohide.me free vpn is quite good for us European underclassers
- Atreus 8y agoThe Chinese got something amazing out of the junk they bought from the F-117 shot down in Bosnia. This has to be something at least a little like when the U2 went down in USSR. Whatever they got, and reverse engineered, and are putting into their F-35 knock-offs, it has "us" worried, and we have to have tried-and-true countermeasures in place for when China uses those against our assets, or our allies in the next few years. Politics and "sealed fates" are strange bedfellows.
- steven2012 8y agoHave these planes ever been used in real combat?
- greedo 8y agoDesert Storm, Bosnia, and Panama IIRC.
- mr_overalls 8y agoAs a child of the 80s and 90s, I sort of miss the public unveiling of secret aircraft. It seems like there hasn't been anything matching the mystery of the B-2 or F-117 in a long time.
- stillsut 8y agoYeah today it's PRISM and Stuxnet. But less sarcastically, there was that stealth helicopter destroyed during the Bin Laden raid, but I haven't seen much talk about it since.