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Pretty much every socialist-communist-attempting country went through this. China is the only kind-of successful one, but at the cost of rivers of blood, politi

Pretty much every socialist-communist-attempting country went through this. China is the only kind-of successful one, but at the cost of rivers of blood, political prisoners. It's Venezuela's turn to show the whole world how socialism fails.

chii 8y ago
> China is the only kind-of successful one, but at the cost of rivers of blood, political prisoners. china actually "secretly" (or openly secretly) adopted capitalist ideals for it's planned economy (such as opening up foreign investments and exports of cheap labour) - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping (and slightly better article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_characteristics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_charact...). These reforms have single-handedly made china the world's 2nd biggest, economy after the US. Venezuela doesn't have the same level of labour exporting, and relied on natural resources, and even actively nationalized private businesses (against the interests of foreign investors). Obviously they are going to stop getting investment, and as oil prices tanked, their socialist policies (or, bribery of the voters with "free" stuff) can't be kept up.
- avcdsuia 8y ago
  Actually, it was Zhao Ziyang’s credit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Ziyang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Ziyang
- wdn 8y ago
  Please do not mix communist with socialist. Communist is a political party like the Republicans and Democrats parties we have here in the US. China has moved away from the socialist economic models for 4 decades. They thrive because they have capitalist/capitalism model.
RugnirViking 8y ago
Lets end this meme right here. Venuezela was and is a capitalist country. It may have had some left wing tendancies in government, but no more than say, denmark or sweden. Two countries which would rather disprove your point. EDIT: It's incredible how many people seem to read this and assume that I somehow support the venuezelan government. Just because they have poor policy does not mean that they are communist.
- andrenth 8y ago
  Venezuela has a totalitarian government who nationalized industries and implemented heavy price controls, putting those who don’t comply in jail (or to death by government militia). I can’t imagine how this could even be compared to market economies such as Denmark or Sweden.
  - RugnirViking 8y ago
    It nationalized oil - just like norway :) As for price controls, this happens all the time in countries in the west, ranging from farming subsidies to taxes on sugary foods. Another example where this often happens is minimum price controls per unit of alcohol Yes the government hasn't been great at human rights, but that doesn't make it socialist.
    - andrenth 8y ago
      It’s nothing like Norway, no matter how many smiley faces you put over the citizens killed by the Venezuelan government. Price controls are a socialist measure. Name a country that has impelemented Venezuela-style price control, where business owners either sell at government-defined prices of face imprisonment, and you’ll spot a socialist leader doing it “for the people”.
      - RugnirViking 8y ago
        The UK. You cannot sell alchohol too cheaply. We have price controls per unit. There are literally thousands of such controls in most contries. California. They control the price of electricity in the state. And yes, these are laws. If you break them, you go to prison.
        andrenth 8y ago
        Are you being purposefully dense? I’m not talking about isolated price controls in a few products. I’m talking about generalized price controls that cause shortages and hunger. I’m talking about going to jail for trying to sell food above the price you bought it from a producer. Do you honestly believe Norway, the UK and California are anything like that?
Arnt 8y ago
Make a list of such countries, why don't you. And please restrict yourself to cases where the hyperinflation started after the regime in question took over. China's hyperinflation happened about a thousand years before Communist Party too over, the Soviet Union's started during the civil war and ended soon after the Communists won (1923-1924).
- bufferoverflow 8y ago
  LOL. I grew up in USSR, and you are 100% wrong. Since 1922 ruble lost its denomination 6 times. The total loss of valuation is 1 to 5 quadrillion. That's not even counting the inflation since 1998, which is is another 1:5 loss, though that's not due to socialism. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Деноминация_(экономика)#В_СССР_и_России https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Деноминация_(экономика)#В_СССР... (EDIT: fixed the typo 1992 -> 1922)
  - Arnt 8y ago
    What was the inflation rate from 192x to 1989? I mean, the inflation was terrible from 1917 to 1924. Clear hyperinflation. But it's not fair to blame the communists for that. Starting around 1922 it's fair to blame them for much of it, because by that time the Communists were in almost full control. But that's roughly when the hyperinflation ended.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- tomp 8y ago
  Before collapsing, Yugoslavia has a huge inflation.
  - Arnt 8y ago
    Yes. It's listed as one of the 15 examples in Wikipedia, actually. Bufferoverflow appears to think that most/all leftist regimes led to hyperinflatiuon, a viewpoint which is not well backed by Wikipedia's list.
dep_b 8y ago
Like Argentina (mobilizing it's own army against it's own people to enforce IMF reforms right now) is a showcase about why market driven capitalist governments with "trickle down economics" delusions are a failure?

chii 8y ago

> China is the only kind-of successful one, but at the cost of rivers of blood, political prisoners. china actually "secretly" (or openly secretly) adopted capitalist ideals for it's planned economy (such as opening up foreign investments and exports of cheap labour) - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deng_Xiaoping (and slightly better article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_characteristics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_Chinese_charact...). These reforms have single-handedly made china the world's 2nd biggest, economy after the US. Venezuela doesn't have the same level of labour exporting, and relied on natural resources, and even actively nationalized private businesses (against the interests of foreign investors). Obviously they are going to stop getting investment, and as oil prices tanked, their socialist policies (or, bribery of the voters with "free" stuff) can't be kept up.

avcdsuia 8y ago
Actually, it was Zhao Ziyang’s credit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Ziyang https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Ziyang
wdn 8y ago
Please do not mix communist with socialist. Communist is a political party like the Republicans and Democrats parties we have here in the US. China has moved away from the socialist economic models for 4 decades. They thrive because they have capitalist/capitalism model.

RugnirViking 8y ago

Lets end this meme right here. Venuezela was and is a capitalist country. It may have had some left wing tendancies in government, but no more than say, denmark or sweden. Two countries which would rather disprove your point. EDIT: It's incredible how many people seem to read this and assume that I somehow support the venuezelan government. Just because they have poor policy does not mean that they are communist.

andrenth 8y ago
Venezuela has a totalitarian government who nationalized industries and implemented heavy price controls, putting those who don’t comply in jail (or to death by government militia). I can’t imagine how this could even be compared to market economies such as Denmark or Sweden.
- RugnirViking 8y ago
  It nationalized oil - just like norway :) As for price controls, this happens all the time in countries in the west, ranging from farming subsidies to taxes on sugary foods. Another example where this often happens is minimum price controls per unit of alcohol Yes the government hasn't been great at human rights, but that doesn't make it socialist.
  - andrenth 8y ago
    It’s nothing like Norway, no matter how many smiley faces you put over the citizens killed by the Venezuelan government. Price controls are a socialist measure. Name a country that has impelemented Venezuela-style price control, where business owners either sell at government-defined prices of face imprisonment, and you’ll spot a socialist leader doing it “for the people”.
    - RugnirViking 8y ago
      The UK. You cannot sell alchohol too cheaply. We have price controls per unit. There are literally thousands of such controls in most contries. California. They control the price of electricity in the state. And yes, these are laws. If you break them, you go to prison.
      - andrenth 8y ago
        Are you being purposefully dense? I’m not talking about isolated price controls in a few products. I’m talking about generalized price controls that cause shortages and hunger. I’m talking about going to jail for trying to sell food above the price you bought it from a producer. Do you honestly believe Norway, the UK and California are anything like that?

Arnt 8y ago

Make a list of such countries, why don't you. And please restrict yourself to cases where the hyperinflation started after the regime in question took over. China's hyperinflation happened about a thousand years before Communist Party too over, the Soviet Union's started during the civil war and ended soon after the Communists won (1923-1924).

bufferoverflow 8y ago
LOL. I grew up in USSR, and you are 100% wrong. Since 1922 ruble lost its denomination 6 times. The total loss of valuation is 1 to 5 quadrillion. That's not even counting the inflation since 1998, which is is another 1:5 loss, though that's not due to socialism. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Деноминация_(экономика)#В_СССР_и_России https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Деноминация_(экономика)#В_СССР... (EDIT: fixed the typo 1992 -> 1922)
- Arnt 8y ago
  What was the inflation rate from 192x to 1989? I mean, the inflation was terrible from 1917 to 1924. Clear hyperinflation. But it's not fair to blame the communists for that. Starting around 1922 it's fair to blame them for much of it, because by that time the Communists were in almost full control. But that's roughly when the hyperinflation ended.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
tomp 8y ago
Before collapsing, Yugoslavia has a huge inflation.
- Arnt 8y ago
  Yes. It's listed as one of the 15 examples in Wikipedia, actually. Bufferoverflow appears to think that most/all leftist regimes led to hyperinflatiuon, a viewpoint which is not well backed by Wikipedia's list.

dep_b 8y ago

Like Argentina (mobilizing it's own army against it's own people to enforce IMF reforms right now) is a showcase about why market driven capitalist governments with "trickle down economics" delusions are a failure?