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According to my defense attorney friend, a 2 plea and 20 trial offer means a few things: - It’s considered a 2-year crime. - The 20 (that seemed high to him f
by csa 8y ago
According to my defense attorney friend, a 2 plea and 20 trial offer means a few things:
- It’s considered a 2-year crime.
- The 20 (that seemed high to him for a 2 year plea) is a fuck you for going to trial when you are almost undoubtedly guilty. As someone else mentioned, it seems to show a lack of remorse.
- Note that both sentences will probably have time off for good behavior as well as possible probation. This can make each of the sentences less daunting (e.g., “2 years” might end up as 6 months served and 1.5 years probation).
- Cooperating is a totally different issue. They use that to get a bigger fish (usually).
- intralizee 8y agoOh please.., tell me nobody serious actually believes this nonsense. People go to prison and while innocent of all crimes accused. That attitude of certainty in any situation should bar a person from a career in the justice system.
- csa 8y agoWhile I agree that innocent people do go to jail sometimes, I think this is much rarer than you make it out to be. The instances I have heard of it, either the system was (or one or more actors in that system were) corrupt, or the defendant had incompetent counsel.
- intralizee 8y agoHow did I make it out to be? Also how do you respond, "this is much rare than you make it out to be" from reading my comment. (Assumptions) while attempting to justify madness is a scapegoat at best from changing ones view; from understanding the human error of the poor process. Now I have no way to know the frequency if it's rare or common. Unrelated to my past comment, I don't believe in free will and think the whole justice system is madness.
- carlmr 8y agohttps://www.innocenceproject.org/how-many-innocent-people-are-in-prison/ https://www.innocenceproject.org/how-many-innocent-people-ar... The current estimate is roughly 1%. Sending someone to prison is basically taking some or all of their life. We currently have an estimated 20,000 innocent people in jail. That's not rare, and it's disgusting that this complete ethical failure of the American justice system is defended here.
- corndoge 8y ago>The 20 (that seemed high to him for a 2 year plea) is a fuck you for going to trial when you are almost undoubtedly guilty Innocent until proven guilty is supposed to be the fundamental value of our justice system, this is the core issue I personally take with plea deals.
- csa 8y agoI don’t understand why you say that. Basically the prosecution has a lock on evidence that makes them think they can comfortably convict. They offer the defendant a standard plea to 2. The issue typically isn’t innocence (they’re guilty), it’s an issue of how the defendant handles his guiltiness. If there is a lack of evidence or a strong alibi, then typically the DA won’t threaten a trial — they will drop it or offer a lesser crime (depends on the context). DAs don’t make a career of threatening trials for cases that aren’t locks. They want high conviction rates.
- bfhd 8y agoIsn't the point that those things should be decided by a judge, not by a prosecutor?
- smcameron 8y ago> The issue typically isn’t innocence (they’re guilty), By definitiion, they're not, until proven.
- joe_the_user 8y agoThe intuitive concept of justice that the average person has involves a couple things. - You need to be proven guilty even if you are, in fact, guilty. - You should be punished for your crimes, not for "how you handle your guiltiness", not for going to trial, not for other things but for your crimes. Certainly, most people going into the criminal justice system are guilty, there's little doubt about the circumstances and Perry Mason-style trials seldom if ever occur. But so what. That doesn't change the points above imo. The most horrendous thing is that even when you are talking about guilty people, those who just knuckle under to the system can wind-up with minimal punishment and those who resist get punished more for this than for their crimes. Tell me again why this is just and reasonable.
- gowld 8y ago> fuck you for going to trial when you are almost undoubtedly guilty. Even if this concept is defensible (which is arguable), something like 1 year extra is plenty of excess punishment compared to the cost of a trial.
- csa 8y agoMaybe. There are a lot of issues involved, and contrition (or lack thereof) is one of them. Most of the judges prefer pleas for obviously guilty people since they clog the docket. Going to trial just because you can even though your case is a slam dunk guilty verdict is an abuse of privelege, imho. If a case is not a slam dunk, the judges often don’t give the max out of spite — it all depends on the details of the case. If you have some free time, go watch a few criminal court trials. Some of these things will make of scratch your head and wonder why the person didn’t plea (e.g., clear cctv footage of the crime being committed with multiple eyewitnesses who corroborate).
- kimdotcom 8y agoTell us your thoughts on voting.
- jacquesm 8y agoHow quickly you would change your tune when innocently imprisoned after being falsely accused. 'Slam dunk guilty' indeed. Of course you'd go to trial. Or would you? 2 or 20?
- csa 8y agoIf I did the crime, I would plea, and it's not even close (requisite hedge: assuming that the plea offer is reasonable -- it might not be for a high profile case that the DA wants to try for political points). As I have said elsewhere, when the facts are not as clear, the plea offers tend to contrast less starkly with a court sentence as well. You seem to think that there are a lot of cases where the DA is just making up charges against a totally innocent person. That just happens very rarely. There are some weird domains like CPS/child abuse that have must-try cases for political reasons, but the various actors all know what's going on there and conduct themselves accordingly. Look, IANAL. I am just telling you what my best friend has told me over the past two decades. If you want to learn more about this, go talk to a defense attorney and ask them their opinion on this matter. I think you will be (pleasantly?) surprised at how reasonable the system usually is.
- ggg9990 8y ago> The 20 (that seemed high to him for a 2 year plea) is a fuck you for going to trial So you get an 18-year "fuck you" for invoking your Sixth Amendment right to a trial by an impartial jury of your peers?
- csa 8y ago.... when the evidence is stacked heavily agaisnt the defendant. For more marginal cases, the offers tend to be much less punitive. Look, I'm not a lawyer. You may want to go talk to one -- especially a public defense lawyer. Your eyes will be open about how fantastically reasonable the system usually (intentional hedge word -- not all DAs or judges are reasonable, but most are) is.
- anoncoward111 8y agoSo every non-violent drug offender should just take their multi-year sentence to third-world-tier prisons and their felon status too and be happy with it?
- leesalminen 8y agoPretty much. Once you’re negotiating with a DA, you’re going to jail. They’re never gonna let you go.
- anoncoward111 8y agoI suppose my comment was intended to highlight the relative absurdity of punishing non-violent drug offenses with jail time. It quite literally creates career criminals out of non-criminals, since, once they have a crime on their record, virtually all avenues of employment are closed off to them besides violent/property crime.
- wu-ikkyu 8y ago"Fantastically reasonable" is an interesting way of describing the legal system punishing the greatest number of prisoners in the world.
- empath75 8y agoInnocent people plead guilty all the time though.
- leesalminen 8y agoThis is why people don’t respect lawyers.