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MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar 2018 Teardown

105 points by velmu 8y ago

crazygringo 8y ago
Most interesting tidbit: > Apple was careful to mention its latest third-gen keyboard in its press release. The added quietness seems a bit underwhelming to our ears, and we suspect there's something more going on... As you may have heard, there's a brand new silicone barrier under here. Apple says this new addition is purely for soundproofing, but it bears a suspicious resemblance to their 2016 ingress-proofing patent—one that might help prevent the keyboard failures we keep hearing about. This bears further analysis. We'll have a deeper dive on the keyboard situation later in the week. Stay tuned! Relevant image: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Xi2aYwBSYTs2fZT1.huge https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Xi2aYwBSYTs2fZT1.h...
- TamDenholm 8y ago
  Youtube video that goes over this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tbVDV1xdQI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tbVDV1xdQI
- nsxwolf 8y ago
  Would it kill them to say "We're sorry about the keyboard problems. Here's what we did to try to address them"? My future buying decisions will depend a lot on my confidence level in the keyboard.
  - herrkanin 8y ago
    It is likely due to several lawsuits that are targeted towards previous unreliable keyboard models, which limits their ability to say just that.
  - petercooper 8y ago
    It could be legally problematic. Admitting to a general fault could lead to a full on recall which given how integrated the keyboard is could cost almost the same as replacing every single machine. (Of course, with $100bn+ in cash, they probably should do this, but I can see why they wouldn't.)
    - std_throwaway 8y ago
      I don't like the improvements they made that actually make the new MBPs worse for what I do. I also don't trust them regarding the keyboard issues and will wait two years before even considering a new MBP. If my old MBP breaks it will be some other manufacturer with questionable long term quality but much lower price. They lost my faith and doing a major recall would do lift their image in my eyes tremendously.
    - davidf18 8y ago
      The non-TB MacBook Pro 13" is the same model as last year with the same 2nd version keyboard, thus they wouldn't want to say that they are selling a defective product.
    - dannyw 8y ago
      Hopefully this is a lesson to Apple to stop integrating fragile / breakable components with almost everything.
  - threeseed 8y ago
    Well they did address the problem. They have a service program where keyboards are replaced for free until about 2021. And the 2018 model has a technical fix. I don't think people really care about apologies. They just want a working laptop.
    - nsxwolf 8y ago
      I'm not looking for an apology. I just would like to not have to guess that the noise reducing technology is actually meant to keep debris out. Just treat me like an adult and say so.
  - on_and_off 8y ago
    1- lawsuits 2- Apple's marketing strategy has always been to declare themselves geniuses that make magical product. Explaining that they are just like any other company and also completely screw up goes against that.
- bluedino 8y ago
  Doesn’t “we created a patent to fix this issue” basically admit they knew the product was ‘defective’?
  - threeseed 8y ago
    No because their line is that the fix is there only to dampen the sound. If a fix happens to do both then you're stuck in murky grey territory.
    - deathanatos 8y ago
      The patent mentioned by the the comment you're responding to has nothing to do with dampening sound.
bigtones 8y ago
Interesting to note that the SSD is literally 4 chips permanently soldered on both sides of the motherboard, they don't even bother with an NVMe M2 drive. So you can't upgrade your hard disk to a larger one ever - you have to choose when you buy it. I guess that contributes to it being the fastest ever hard disk in a laptop: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastest-laptop-ssd-ever/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastes...
- mmastrac 8y ago
  I'm going to guess copy-on-write is 90% of what makes it fast: "To be fair, Apple’s relatively new APFS file system is designed to speed up file copies using a technology Apple calls Instant Cloning. But a win is a win."
  - MBCook 8y ago
    Copy on write should be WAY faster than that. These numbers are similar to the iMac Pro, which uses a similar setup (T2, multiple flash chips). I don’t think the benchmark was dumb enough to just be ‘cp fileOne fileTwo’, they would have taken the APFS instant copy into account.
- abootstrapper 8y ago
  Well shit. I assumed I could upgrade my hardrive 5 years from now. External hard drive it’ll be I guess! Good thing usb-c is fast.
  - threeseed 8y ago
    On a MacBook Pro they have Thunderbolt 3 ports. Which are 4x faster than USB-C.
    - stephenhuey 8y ago
      In case anyone else finds this tricky to remember, Thunderbolt 3 is a superset of USB-C. https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/difference-between-usb-c-and-thunderbolt-3 https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/difference-between-us...
solarkraft 8y ago
> Given this MacBook's non-removable storage, Apple must have a new recovery method. Any ideas? None?
- tomelders 8y ago
  The T2 chip?
- monocasa 8y ago
  Buy a new laptop?
- dguaraglia 8y ago
  "Recovery" meaning what? When I went to the Genius Bar because my laptop had WiFi issues, they didn't boot from the internal hard drive, they booted from an external unit that seemed to do way more than just function as a USB-external-HD. If they mean "self-service" recovery, then I don't know that a soldered hard drive is any different from a removable one. It either works or it doesn't, if it does you can recover from a recovery partition... if it doesn't then you can't recover no matter what.
  - sjm-lbm 8y ago
    IIRC, on the 2016 MBP revision, they included a port to be used for data recovery by authorized repair centers. They appear to have removed that port for this revision.
    - jonknee 8y ago
      It's encrypted using the T2 chip (with a key that can't be extracted) so I'm not sure what value getting a copy of the SSD would be. The 2016 MBP did not have this encryption.
      - userbinator 8y ago
        with a key that can't be extracted I'm pretty sure it can, just that the methods are (currently) beyond the reach of DIYers. Besides, there's probably easier ways... like tapping into the decrypted data. Like any classic DRM scheme, if you have the key and the algorithm, you can get the content. That does not make it easy, but it can certainly be done with enough effort.
notafraudster 8y ago
Unrelated side note: I recent had my MacBook 2016 repaired under Apple's recently announced keyboard repair program. Previous keyboard repairs came with topcase + battery replacements. This keyboard repair does feel like it replaced the whole keyboard and topcase, but it did not replace my battery. I'm not sure if they changed their repair process to make repairs easier on them or cheaper on them and that's what spurred the extended repair, or what.
rayiner 8y ago
So for the first time in more than a decade, I bought a non-Apple personal machine. (Thinkpad X1C 6th gen). It's okay. In the first week of ownership, I ran into the issue that the LTE is flaky coming up from hibernate. Trying to debug that issue (spoiler: there is no fix) really made me appreciate how Apple is operating on a different level from other PC manufacturers. The fact is that Lenovo doesn't have the expertise to make an LTE card or write drivers for it, and neither does the company that makes the card for Lenovo (Fibocom). Fibocom takes an Intel reference design, buys Intel chips, throws the other components on the card, glues some Intel code together and ships it. Lenovo buys it and puts it in the machine, but doesn't really know how it works. When it doesn't work, it's not Intel's problem (they just make reference designs and sell the chips), it's not Fibocom's problem, and even though Lenovo takes responsibility, it's out of its depth in fixing the problem. Compare Apple. They don't just take an SSD and slap it in a machine. They make their own SSD controller and combine it onto a chip with other functionality. Non-upgradable? Yes. But at least they understand how their own machine works.
- sathackr 8y ago
  My LTE on my Latitude E7250 has worked flawlessly...16GB of ram and an i7-5600U (2C, 4T, 2.6/3.2ghz) I am a horrible user. I severely mistreat my equipment. My laptop rides in a backpack full of tools, crimpers, patch cables, sand. It goes on my back when I climb towers, work on buildings, and work in the office. It gets left in my black SUV in the Florida sun where it gets to 130+ deg f. I've opened and closed the screen at least 4000 times since I bought it 3 years ago. It's been dropped several times. Sat on. Stepped on. Kicked. Liquids spilled on, both opened and closed. I've left it on and put it in my backpack more times than I can imagine(I disable stand-by on close) to later find it had shut itself down due to overheat. But it survives. My cat sits on my lap, half over the keyboard, so it gets full of cat hair routinely. I bought accidental damage protection because I was sure I would destroy it before it reached the end of it's useful life. Nothing has broken and I've never had to even call Dell. The finish is getting worn on the keyboard because I use it easily 12 hours a day. The chassis has nicks and scrapes all over it. I just opened it for the first time since buying it to install a 1TB SSD. I took the keyboard apart at the same time and de-furred it. And it has LTE. I've yet to see a Macbook even give you the option for LTE. My girlfriend's MBA is sitting in the closet going on a year now with a cracked screen that nobody knows how it happened. Just opened it one day and it was cracked. Everything may be pretty and work great inside a walled garden, but I prefer choices and options -- the ability to get exactly what I want.
Groxx 8y ago
>NXP 80V18 secure NFC module Does that mean there's an NFC antenna somewhere on the laptop?
walterbell 8y ago
From a comment on the article > Looks like one of the Thunderbolt ports on the right-hand side, probably the one closest to the headphone jack, is connected to the T2 by way of a USB switch. This is probably the port that is used to perform a DFU restore of the iBridge, like on the iMac Pro ( https://help.apple.com/configurator/mac/2.7/#/apdebea5be51 https://help.apple.com/configurator/mac/2.7/#/apdebea5be51) It’s possible that data recovery could also be performed via that Thunderbolt port given the right tools. The T2 ARM coprocessor secure enclave with encryption keys is connected to an external PCIe bus that is also connected to the main x86 CPU? Is there a risk of DMA attacks like PCILeech? What policy restricts devices that can pair with the T2?

105 points by velmu 8y ago

Most interesting tidbit: > Apple was careful to mention its latest third-gen keyboard in its press release. The added quietness seems a bit underwhelming to our ears, and we suspect there's something more going on... As you may have heard, there's a brand new silicone barrier under here. Apple says this new addition is purely for soundproofing, but it bears a suspicious resemblance to their 2016 ingress-proofing patent—one that might help prevent the keyboard failures we keep hearing about. This bears further analysis. We'll have a deeper dive on the keyboard situation later in the week. Stay tuned! Relevant image: https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Xi2aYwBSYTs2fZT1.huge https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Xi2aYwBSYTs2fZT1.h...

TamDenholm 8y ago
Youtube video that goes over this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tbVDV1xdQI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tbVDV1xdQI
nsxwolf 8y ago
Would it kill them to say "We're sorry about the keyboard problems. Here's what we did to try to address them"? My future buying decisions will depend a lot on my confidence level in the keyboard.
- herrkanin 8y ago
  It is likely due to several lawsuits that are targeted towards previous unreliable keyboard models, which limits their ability to say just that.
- petercooper 8y ago
  It could be legally problematic. Admitting to a general fault could lead to a full on recall which given how integrated the keyboard is could cost almost the same as replacing every single machine. (Of course, with $100bn+ in cash, they probably should do this, but I can see why they wouldn't.)
  - std_throwaway 8y ago
    I don't like the improvements they made that actually make the new MBPs worse for what I do. I also don't trust them regarding the keyboard issues and will wait two years before even considering a new MBP. If my old MBP breaks it will be some other manufacturer with questionable long term quality but much lower price. They lost my faith and doing a major recall would do lift their image in my eyes tremendously.
  - davidf18 8y ago
    The non-TB MacBook Pro 13" is the same model as last year with the same 2nd version keyboard, thus they wouldn't want to say that they are selling a defective product.
  - dannyw 8y ago
    Hopefully this is a lesson to Apple to stop integrating fragile / breakable components with almost everything.
- threeseed 8y ago
  Well they did address the problem. They have a service program where keyboards are replaced for free until about 2021. And the 2018 model has a technical fix. I don't think people really care about apologies. They just want a working laptop.
  - nsxwolf 8y ago
    I'm not looking for an apology. I just would like to not have to guess that the noise reducing technology is actually meant to keep debris out. Just treat me like an adult and say so.
- on_and_off 8y ago
  1- lawsuits 2- Apple's marketing strategy has always been to declare themselves geniuses that make magical product. Explaining that they are just like any other company and also completely screw up goes against that.
bluedino 8y ago
Doesn’t “we created a patent to fix this issue” basically admit they knew the product was ‘defective’?
- threeseed 8y ago
  No because their line is that the fix is there only to dampen the sound. If a fix happens to do both then you're stuck in murky grey territory.
  - deathanatos 8y ago
    The patent mentioned by the the comment you're responding to has nothing to do with dampening sound.

bigtones 8y ago

Interesting to note that the SSD is literally 4 chips permanently soldered on both sides of the motherboard, they don't even bother with an NVMe M2 drive. So you can't upgrade your hard disk to a larger one ever - you have to choose when you buy it. I guess that contributes to it being the fastest ever hard disk in a laptop: https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastest-laptop-ssd-ever/ https://www.macrumors.com/2018/07/13/2018-macbook-pro-fastes...

mmastrac 8y ago
I'm going to guess copy-on-write is 90% of what makes it fast: "To be fair, Apple’s relatively new APFS file system is designed to speed up file copies using a technology Apple calls Instant Cloning. But a win is a win."
- MBCook 8y ago
  Copy on write should be WAY faster than that. These numbers are similar to the iMac Pro, which uses a similar setup (T2, multiple flash chips). I don’t think the benchmark was dumb enough to just be ‘cp fileOne fileTwo’, they would have taken the APFS instant copy into account.
abootstrapper 8y ago
Well shit. I assumed I could upgrade my hardrive 5 years from now. External hard drive it’ll be I guess! Good thing usb-c is fast.
- threeseed 8y ago
  On a MacBook Pro they have Thunderbolt 3 ports. Which are 4x faster than USB-C.
  - stephenhuey 8y ago
    In case anyone else finds this tricky to remember, Thunderbolt 3 is a superset of USB-C. https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/difference-between-usb-c-and-thunderbolt-3 https://thunderbolttechnology.net/blog/difference-between-us...

solarkraft 8y ago

> Given this MacBook's non-removable storage, Apple must have a new recovery method. Any ideas? None?

tomelders 8y ago
The T2 chip?
monocasa 8y ago
Buy a new laptop?
dguaraglia 8y ago
"Recovery" meaning what? When I went to the Genius Bar because my laptop had WiFi issues, they didn't boot from the internal hard drive, they booted from an external unit that seemed to do way more than just function as a USB-external-HD. If they mean "self-service" recovery, then I don't know that a soldered hard drive is any different from a removable one. It either works or it doesn't, if it does you can recover from a recovery partition... if it doesn't then you can't recover no matter what.
- sjm-lbm 8y ago
  IIRC, on the 2016 MBP revision, they included a port to be used for data recovery by authorized repair centers. They appear to have removed that port for this revision.
  - jonknee 8y ago
    It's encrypted using the T2 chip (with a key that can't be extracted) so I'm not sure what value getting a copy of the SSD would be. The 2016 MBP did not have this encryption.
    - userbinator 8y ago
      with a key that can't be extracted I'm pretty sure it can, just that the methods are (currently) beyond the reach of DIYers. Besides, there's probably easier ways... like tapping into the decrypted data. Like any classic DRM scheme, if you have the key and the algorithm, you can get the content. That does not make it easy, but it can certainly be done with enough effort.

notafraudster 8y ago

Unrelated side note: I recent had my MacBook 2016 repaired under Apple's recently announced keyboard repair program. Previous keyboard repairs came with topcase + battery replacements. This keyboard repair does feel like it replaced the whole keyboard and topcase, but it did not replace my battery. I'm not sure if they changed their repair process to make repairs easier on them or cheaper on them and that's what spurred the extended repair, or what.

rayiner 8y ago

So for the first time in more than a decade, I bought a non-Apple personal machine. (Thinkpad X1C 6th gen). It's okay. In the first week of ownership, I ran into the issue that the LTE is flaky coming up from hibernate. Trying to debug that issue (spoiler: there is no fix) really made me appreciate how Apple is operating on a different level from other PC manufacturers. The fact is that Lenovo doesn't have the expertise to make an LTE card or write drivers for it, and neither does the company that makes the card for Lenovo (Fibocom). Fibocom takes an Intel reference design, buys Intel chips, throws the other components on the card, glues some Intel code together and ships it. Lenovo buys it and puts it in the machine, but doesn't really know how it works. When it doesn't work, it's not Intel's problem (they just make reference designs and sell the chips), it's not Fibocom's problem, and even though Lenovo takes responsibility, it's out of its depth in fixing the problem. Compare Apple. They don't just take an SSD and slap it in a machine. They make their own SSD controller and combine it onto a chip with other functionality. Non-upgradable? Yes. But at least they understand how their own machine works.

sathackr 8y ago
My LTE on my Latitude E7250 has worked flawlessly...16GB of ram and an i7-5600U (2C, 4T, 2.6/3.2ghz) I am a horrible user. I severely mistreat my equipment. My laptop rides in a backpack full of tools, crimpers, patch cables, sand. It goes on my back when I climb towers, work on buildings, and work in the office. It gets left in my black SUV in the Florida sun where it gets to 130+ deg f. I've opened and closed the screen at least 4000 times since I bought it 3 years ago. It's been dropped several times. Sat on. Stepped on. Kicked. Liquids spilled on, both opened and closed. I've left it on and put it in my backpack more times than I can imagine(I disable stand-by on close) to later find it had shut itself down due to overheat. But it survives. My cat sits on my lap, half over the keyboard, so it gets full of cat hair routinely. I bought accidental damage protection because I was sure I would destroy it before it reached the end of it's useful life. Nothing has broken and I've never had to even call Dell. The finish is getting worn on the keyboard because I use it easily 12 hours a day. The chassis has nicks and scrapes all over it. I just opened it for the first time since buying it to install a 1TB SSD. I took the keyboard apart at the same time and de-furred it. And it has LTE. I've yet to see a Macbook even give you the option for LTE. My girlfriend's MBA is sitting in the closet going on a year now with a cracked screen that nobody knows how it happened. Just opened it one day and it was cracked. Everything may be pretty and work great inside a walled garden, but I prefer choices and options -- the ability to get exactly what I want.

Groxx 8y ago

>NXP 80V18 secure NFC module Does that mean there's an NFC antenna somewhere on the laptop?

walterbell 8y ago

From a comment on the article > Looks like one of the Thunderbolt ports on the right-hand side, probably the one closest to the headphone jack, is connected to the T2 by way of a USB switch. This is probably the port that is used to perform a DFU restore of the iBridge, like on the iMac Pro ( https://help.apple.com/configurator/mac/2.7/#/apdebea5be51 https://help.apple.com/configurator/mac/2.7/#/apdebea5be51) It’s possible that data recovery could also be performed via that Thunderbolt port given the right tools. The T2 ARM coprocessor secure enclave with encryption keys is connected to an external PCIe bus that is also connected to the main x86 CPU? Is there a risk of DMA attacks like PCILeech? What policy restricts devices that can pair with the T2?