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It’s shocking how expensive Macs have gotten. I paid around €2300 for my 2014 15” and today’s equivalent tier is over €3k. For this I get a faster thinner machi

• gaius 8y ago
  It’s shocking how expensive Macs have gotten. Yes it’s strange. I would always buy upper-end kit for personal use for most of my adult life, had a succession of MBPs but now - even tho’ I earn more than I did in those days - I balk at the cost and have put off upgrading for a long time. Disclaimer: I did recently upgrade and not to a Mac, for once.
• rz2k 8y ago
  It weighs half a pound less, and each extra charger you get costs $30 rather than $80.
• agumonkey 8y ago
  because the 'market' decided that style was valueable and io was meh. a bit like cellphones with glued batteries, they removed 'user replaceable' for thinness.
  • matt4077 8y ago
    ...which happened just around the time batteries became good enough for both daily use, as well as a phone’s typical lifespan. 10 years or so ago, a three-year old cell phone battery would still be good for maybe three or four hours per charge. Today, I’m using a 5-year old iPhone that still gets through a typical day on a single charge. There are also battery cases, or external battery banks, whose introduction has solved most people’s battery-related questions, except “why are people still complaining about non-removable batteries?”
    • agumonkey 8y ago
      well it just happen that my moto g1 battery died so I had to find a supplier (harder since it's not a shelf part anymore) and disassemble the phone (the battery is still glued, I'm waiting for the replacement to do that). all your points are valid though, but still I like a bit of swappability.
  • JumpCrisscross 8y ago
    > they removed 'user replaceable' for thinness Also better water resistance.
    • agumonkey 8y ago
      no way to have sealed covers ? (open question)
    • nradov 8y ago
      That's a myth. Some of the older Samsung models had removable batteries and good water resistance ratings.
      • mancerayder 8y ago
        Like the beloved S4 Active. It even came in a camo color scheme, for those more rugged outdoor types. I still have it as a sort of alarm clock/emergency phone by my bedside.
  • bollockitis 8y ago
    Thinness does have some value for phones. For laptops, there's certainly a market for ultra portable machines but Apple seems to have forgotten that some of us use our computers for work and are willing to trade off thinness for practical usability.
    • Fomite 8y ago
      I think the issue is that articulating that balance is hard - for example, the original thinner retina MBP lost some practical usability, but from a work standpoint for me, it was worth it for the increased portability.
    • agumonkey 8y ago
      same goes for smartphones, sadly the market has a tendency to align with 'stupid' goals and so no more production of non-thin devices. I'd be very happy with a thicker phone (larger battery, more shock resilience and even... some buttons)
      • TylerE 8y ago
        So get a thin phone and put a battery back case on it?
        • deleted 8y ago
          [deleted]
        • agumonkey 8y ago
          that's a possibility but I find the idea a bit stupid, I get two parts that will probably won't feel as nice, and probably not sturdy together.
• bluedino 8y ago
  Macs have never been cheap. There was a period where the Air (at < $999) and the 13” Pro (at $1199) were fantastic deals. Let’s go back in time to when the choices were the $1799 12” PowerBook, $2199 15” PowerBook, or the $1299 iBook
  • knolan 8y ago
    I guess that’s it. I bought my first Mac in 2010, a 13” MBP for £800 and sold it in 2014 for €600 which made it a fantastic value machine.
  • csydas 8y ago
    Truthfully, it's why I'm very sad that the Air looks to be discontinued. I'm still using a 2012 MacBook Air, and it was quite possibly the least stressful computer purchase I ever made. $1000 and some change to get a computer that has just worked magnificently for nearly 6 years now without missing a beat. I walked into an Apple Store, told the Apple employee I wanted a 4 gb MacBook Air, and in 5 minutes I walked out with one, no other pressure or sales pitches. It was a very relaxed experience for me, and I certainly hope that it's still the same with Apple. $1000 isn't chump change, but it's accessible for someone just a little above the poverty line like me.
    • watmough 8y ago
      Yes, on my Air now. It's like my old G4 12" AlBook, just a no-hassle, always there laptop.
    • bdowling 8y ago
      Why do you think that the Air is discontinued? They're still up for sale on Apple's site. The most recent updates were apparently in 2017.
      • simonh 8y ago
        He said looks t be. There are rumours of a new low cost Mac laptop with different branding. ‘Air’ branding doesn’t make sense for the low end model that’s not actually the thinnest and lightest in the range, which it hasn’t been since the MacBook came out.
• BugsJustFindMe 8y ago
  > It’s shocking how expensive Macs have gotten Expensive now? A Quadra 950 in 1992 had a starting price of $7200 (1992 dollars) and that didn't include any hard drive. That's almost $13000 or more than €11000 today for the basically empty base model before several thousand more to upgrade RAM and add storage.
  • stefano 8y ago
    That's a very unfair comparison. You need to compare the relative price against comparable laptops produced today. Also Apple seems to be the first laptop producer to raise prices instead of lowering them. In 2010, I could get a MacBook for 1000 euros. The equivalent laptop upgraded to today's standards would cost 2-3 times that.
    • coldtea 8y ago
      >That's a very unfair comparison. You need to compare the relative price against comparable laptops produced today. Well, first spec them comparatively though. Which includes things like same CPUs and GPUs, and the quality of the screen, the touchpad, and the casing. High-end MS Surface laptops, for example, cost just as much (15 inch Intel Core i7-8650U CPU clocked at 1.9 GHz, a discrete Nvidia 1060 GPU with 6GB of RAM, 16GB of memory and a terabyte SSD = $3,299, 13-inch machine with an i5 processor, 8GB of RAM and an integrated Intel GPU = $1,499 ). >In 2010, I could get a MacBook for 1000 euros. The equivalent laptop upgraded to today's standards would cost 2-3 times that. No, it wouldn't. The MacBook was a low spec machine for students and such. The equivalent machine today would be a lowest spec 13' Macbook Pro retina, which goes for €1.499 in Germany. So 1.5 times that (though it's not exactly comparable).
      • danieldk 8y ago
        The MacBook was a low spec machine for students and such. The MacBook Aluminium was everything but a low spec machine (in fact, they sold it a year later as 'MacBook Pro') and I bought it for 1050 Euro new in 2009. The plastic MacBooks were ok, but definitely not so cramped at the time as a MacBook Pro base model today. I know it's a hard disk, but the 2008 model had more storage than today's base model MacBook Pro (160GB vs 128GB). At the time, macOS worked well on spinning platters, while having an SSD is pretty much a necessity now.
• wux 8y ago
  In July 2014, the U.S. dollar was worth around 0.73 euros; today, it is worth about 0.86 euros. In January of last year, it was worth about 0.95 euros, and Apple obviously has an incentive to account for possible short-term exchange fluctuations. 2300 / 0.73 * 0.86 = ~2710 2300 / 0.73 * 0.95 = ~2993 It would appear that currency fluctuations account for a significant portion of that price difference that you're seeing.
  • chx 8y ago
    I have no idea what your calculations are trying to be, let me try it myself, it should be very simple: In 2014, a 2300 EUR laptop was 2300 / 0.73 = ~3150 USD or so. Today, a 3000 EUR laptop is 3000 / 0.86 = ~3500 USD or so. So no, just the exchange ratio does not explain this. The US inflation numbers, however, say 3150 in 2014 was 3353 USD in 2018 so that's closer.
    • wux 8y ago
      2300 EUR in 2014 was ~3151 USD, as you say. At today's exchange rate, 3151 USD is approximately 2710 EUR. In January 2017, 3151 USD was approximately 2993 EUR. Apple will give themselves a cushion to prevent undesirable pricing discrepancies (or the need for frequent price adjustments) if the U.S. dollar strengthens against the euro, so a product that they sell at 3150 USD after taxes in the United States would reasonably be in the ballpark of 2800-2900 EUR in Europe given exchange rates in the last year or two. This is rather close to the parent post's stated price even without adjusting for inflation.
      • MagnumOpus 8y ago
        > Apple will give themselves a cushion to prevent undesirable pricing discrepancies (or the need for frequent price adjustments) if the U.S. dollar strengthens against the euro Apple is a trillion-dollar company that has people who can and do hedge FX exchange rates on their products to keep costs predictable in local currency terms. As such they don't need a "cushion" - beyond the need to cushion their margins, that is. (And even if they didn't hedge FX - if they need a cushion now, why didn't they need the same cushion before?)
• submeta 8y ago
  Actually, I pay that extra amount without hesitation. Thinking of the times when I constantly had to fiddle around with my Windows ThinkPad or my Ubuntu ThinkPad, time is more expensive for me, so the extra 700 Euros means nothing for me. - But yes, you are right. They have gotten expensive in the past several years.
  • reaperducer 8y ago
    In my experience, the people who choose Wintel vs. Mac computers based primarily on price and not on whether it's the best tool for the task at hand are people whose time isn't very valuable. I'm not trying to be insulting. But if you're using the computer for work and you can save eight or ten or twelve hours over the course of a month, when you multiply that by your hourly rate and then again by the number of months in a year, it makes sense. I still have two client-supplied Windows boxes on my desk I have to use daily because the client's unusual legacy needs. But it's good because it reminds me of what the Windows ecosystem is like and every time one of them does something stupid, I love my Macs more. The Mac isn't always the best tool for the job, but since I switched from Wintel boxes to Macs in 1999, I know that each Mac purchase premium will pay for itself in time and aggravation saved.
    • deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    • llampx 8y ago
      Horses for courses. I've used Mac, Linux and Windows. Multiple generations of each. Getting work done is not a problem, unless it's something like not having an app be available for the platform at all. Which affects Linux the most, and Windows the least. After getting used to the cross-platform OpenShot video editor I miss my MacBook Pro even less.
    • andai 8y ago
      Sold my Mac to pay rent, using Windows now. The pain is real.
• Entalpi 8y ago
  I remember paying $1850 for my MBP late 2013 which was the entry model of the 15”. The ”same” model starts at $2800. Given this was 2013 and I remember Apple increasing the price twice. One time because of exchange rates and one time when they redsigned the line a bit.. Note: I am converting my local currency to dollars (1:10) so the exact dollar value is slighty lower but you all get the idea.
• 21 8y ago
  Rolex or Gucci isn't cheap either. If you want to look successful, you need to spend the money.
  • asdsa5325 8y ago
    Not sure why you are getting downvoted, you are right. A mac is a status symbol. If you wanted a good system, you could get far more than a mac can give with the same price.
    • threeseed 8y ago
      Such nonsense. Please show me a laptop with the same quality trackpad and an operating system that works as well with my iOS devices e.g. AirDrop, Continuity, iCloud Notes, Photos, Keychain. And of course one that has perfect driver support and supports apps like Pixelmator and Omnigraffle.
      • 21 8y ago
        Your requirements sound like those rigged bids in corrupted countries where the bid book conditions are like "car length to be between 2531 mm and 2533 mm" and "car weight between 1203 kg and 1205 kg"
        • threeseed 8y ago
          Yes people have different requirements from a laptop and blanket statements like "Macs are bad, use X" don't really apply to everyone. You really think everyone in the world could care less about a hardware Escape key like you would think if you just read HN.
      • ryukafalz 8y ago
        >And of course one that has perfect driver support I've used MBPs daily for the last few years and occasionally have issues when hotplugging external (Apple) displays. Nothing has perfect driver support.
      • 8y ago
• asdsa5325 8y ago
  Why the hell did you pay 2300 for one in 2014? That's so overpriced it's kind of sad that they have Apple fanboys in their grasp so much.
  • saagarjha 8y ago
    Can you really not comprehend that people can spend $2300 on a computer, or are you just being facetious?
    • asdsa5325 8y ago
      I'd happily spend $2300 on a computer- but not a macbook. $2300 will get you far more power and quality.
      • saagarjha 8y ago
        A Mac is a computer, whether you like it or not.
      • shimms 8y ago
        Which is failing to apportion any of the price to the value of macOS . Sure I can buy a cheaper laptop, but then I’d be without macOS and that for me is worth quite a bit of a premium. (This is absolutely subjective and I totally respect other people like other operating systems, I just find myself much happier and satisfied when I’m using macOS and will - and do - happily pay for it indirectly through the hardware purchase.)
• satysin 8y ago
  I have a new 15" MBP on order at £3300. I also have a similar spec XPS 15 which cost me £2600. So yes the MBP is £700. The XPS also has a better CPU (i9-8950HK) but that is kind of a waste, I only got it with that because Dell basically upgraded me to it for free. However I have had no end of issues with my XPS 15. To the point that I have had enough and I am returning it for a refund and will pickup something else. The first unit had physical damage to the lid so I got a replacement sent. The replacement has coil whine, interference on audio out. backlight bleed and the space bar has developed a wobble so does not pick up all presses. For a £2600 that is unacceptable. I know people like to hate on the new MBP keyboards but I have not had a single problem with my 2016 MBP. That machine is basically perfect and I hope/expect the 2018 model to be the same. To be honest I am fine with pay £700 more for a machine that doesn't develop a problem with the spacebar after 11 days as well as all the other problems I have had. If I were to calculate the amount of time I have spent on the phone with Dell and waiting around for collections/deliveries I doubt I would be far off that £700 in time waste to be honest.
  • kace91 8y ago
    >To be honest I am fine with pay £700 more for a machine that doesn't develop a problem with the spacebar after 11 days as well as all the other problems I have had. I'd argue that is a bad comparison. You're basically judging them both on a vacuum (since one is x amount more expensive but gives me reliability, that X extra is justified). but putting those two devices in context, if we take a look at earlier models, we see that macs have increased enormously in price without providing an equivalent amount of improvements. For me it's more of a case of a company abusing it's status as leader, while others are unable to provide a real alternative.
    • npunt 8y ago
      They haven't increased enormously in price, when comparing like models and factoring in exchange rates to USD. The 2012-2015 generation 15" were bifurcated in 2013 between integrated and discrete graphics. You need to look at discrete graphics models. The 2009-2012 generation 15" was the midrange model, and the 17" was the top of the line model, so you need to compare to that model. The 2018's have introduced new tiers of parts on the super high end (i9 and 4tb ssd) that bump the fully spec'd model up in price. Of course that's getting a lot of attention, but those don't represent the typical builds. See this chart on historic USD pricing [0] and historic pricing by country [1], and historic 10Y exchange rates (pick any currency) [2]. I did this comparison for someone on reddit [3] with CAD and each of their examples of price increases were 100% accounted for by looking at exchange rates. [0] https://everymac.com/global-mac-prices/mac-prices-us-usa-united-states-america.html https://everymac.com/global-mac-prices/mac-prices-us-usa-uni... [1] https://everymac.com/global-mac-prices/index-global-international-mac-prices.html https://everymac.com/global-mac-prices/index-global-internat... [2] https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=CAD&view=10Y https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=CAD&view=10Y [3] https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/8yqu2p/the_prices_of_the_macbooks_have_been_increasing/e2d8jw5/?context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/8yqu2p/the_prices_of...
• richdougherty 8y ago
  Apple has a strategy where they don't compete on price and it works well for them. They've been able to get fantastic margins while other hardware manufacturers have struggled. Their higher price reinforces their premium brand identity too. Apple does build high quality products so the brand identity is earned to some extent. Of course, they could sell these high quality products significantly cheaper, but why mess with a successful formula?
  • bla2 8y ago
    For Macs, in my opinion they used to build high quality products, but they're losing their lead. macOS hasn't improved in ways that matter to me in years and some things got worse. The hardware used to be untouchably good, but the new MacBook Pros are worse for me than the original retina MacBook Pro I still use -- performance hasn't improved much (the latest upgrade might have changed that) and keyboard, ports, power connector all got worse.
    • saagarjha 8y ago
      > macOS hasn't improved in ways that matter to me in years What ways matter to you?
      • bla2 8y ago
        Consistent UI, simple and fast built-in apps for common tasks, good unix subsystem, fast file system, pretty text rendering, system libraries that make it fairly easy to write good native apps, etc. macOS has all this, but it had all this for a while. There are so many good things in it. Preview.app is great -- it even lets you do simple PDF editing, while being fast, reliable, and easy to use. CoreGraphics does beautiful drawing, reasonably fast, leading e.g. to gnuplot having pretty antiailased graphs on macOS but not elsewhere (via Aquaterm -- this might be outdated information though, haven't used it in a while). The find pasteboard is clever and convenient, as are document icons -- and dragging them into Terminal even inserts the path to the document. There are so many well-thought-out details on macOS. I don't care about iCloud integration, sync with iOS, Springboard, tabs in Finder or Maps, Siri, iMessage integration (I don't use an iPhone). The new Photos app doesn't honor mac system conventions. The Mac App Store is repulsive to me in its philosophy, and its implementation has been inept. I miss the HIG. Airpods are cool, but connecting them with my MBP works only haphazardly as you'd expect of regular old Bluetooth headphones, not as you'd expect of Apple hardware talking to Apple hardware. I could go on for much longer, but I'll stop now :-)
• AmVess 8y ago
  I had a Toshiba with a 233 MHz Pentium that cost me $2000. It wasn't hard to spec a laptop to $3000 back then. Macs are expensive relative to some other products, but they are pretty cheap for what you get.
• joshvm 8y ago
  If this review sample was for keeps, then... lucky guy. The model as specced in the review (maxxed out) costs around £6k. Most of that is the 4TB SSD which adds about £2.5k on top.
  • copperx 8y ago
    Apple doesn't give anything away.
• technofiend 8y ago
  MPBs are expensive enough now I expect if Apple weren't so very protective of their IP we'd see a laptop equivalent of the Shelby / Saleen / AMG treatment done in the automotive world. Someone would rehome the MBP guts in a proper case with all the features Apple's power users really want and sell it at a huge premium. However Apple being Apple they'd cancel warranties and shower Cease & Desists to anyone who dared to reimagine the MBP rather than allowing a licensed derivative. Too bad.