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Cognitive Distortions of People Who Get Stuff Done (2012) [pdf]
- brooksbp 8y agoholy fuck. this is me. .. and half the time i can't tell whether i'm kicking serious ass (rewarded) or causing people trouble (fired)!
- cmdrchris 8y agoSame here. I once had a boss tell me that he never had anyone that he reviewed that had a larger range of good/bad feedback for/about. When I liked my projects and was engaged in the work, I was kicking ass. Otherwise...causing trouble. The solution that I've found is to try to always stay in roles where I really feel engaged and useful.
- fzzzy 8y agoUnder Personal Exceptionalism, it says “not to be confused with arrogance or high self-esteem”; but how are they different?
- adamnemecek 8y agoOne is outward one is inward.
- austincheney 8y agoPersonal exceptionalism is when everybody tells you how and wrong and stupid you are and regardless you produce a superior product or convention. It wouldn't happen if you actually listened to the idiots around you. Arrogance is telling the people around you how they are idiots instead of producing a superior product or convention. Think about it in terms of your performance (output) instead of your opinions (what you say).
- fzzzy 8y agoThanks. How does that apply to high self esteem? Someone who talks a lot about how great they are projects high self esteem outward, while someone with an internal attitude of personal exceptionalism just gets stuff done and doesn’t brag about it? This is very interesting and subtle.
- austincheney 8y agoYou know you have a certain level of personal exceptionalism due to proof of practice. In my personal experience I have formed the personal belief that people are generally deeply fearful and offended by originality. There is a minority segment of any population that is willing to embrace originality and try the new thing (whatever it is). If that new thing is embraced by those willing to give it a shot then (and only then) can it become a potentially experimental idea by the rest of the population, a sort of social validation. For the person working on that new thing this is deeply frustrating. The early hostility is super depressing. You just have to power through it, because you have the personal vision to know that new thing solves a problem in a certain way. Having gone through this more than once I have formed high personal exceptionalism. Due to my technical experience I now have a pretty good idea of what ideas are super great and what ideas are really bad, though from time to time I am still (rarely) surprised at just how wrong I am. The consequence of this is that I am really bad at marketing and self-promotion. I would rather just work on my idea without telling anybody. Because I have a small following of users to my big github project I know people will end up using my code anyways. The biggest limitation in this approach is that you are effectively removing yourself from external feedback.
- srtjstjsj 8y agoLow self-esteem means hating yourself. It means that even if everyone else can do it, you still think you can't. High self-esteem means respecting yourself. It means that if someone else can do it, you thin you can do it too. Exceptionalism is a mild delusion that says that risks and constraints don't apply to you. It means that if no one else can do it, that doesn't mean you can't. Arrogance is about how you treat others, not how you treat yourself.
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- austincheney 8y agoStrange how many people believe this is a self-description until they see it in somebody else. Most people, despite their self-delusions, are not this and are actually deeply offended when they do see it or blindly follow it, such as the worship around Steve Jobs.
- scarejunba 8y agoHaha true enough. I imagine everyone is like this to some degree. Otherwise you'd never get anything done. But selecting some language framework over the opposition of your peers and seeing it succeed is way different from removing keyboards from a phone.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- ggm 8y agoYes, I think there are at least five. So this is a list of at least five, but not the five I think. Several of them feel like variations of the same theme: I know I'm right, so I can disregard evidence|opinion|counter-argument because .. an axiom of the system is I know I'm right. If I had a sixth, it would be the tendency to latch onto a mantra. "think different" doesn't really mean very much, but boy, successful people who get stuff done like to say it. (I'm not a person who gets stuff done btw. the mantra my get-stuff-done colleagues say which feels apposite is: "do the shit work first" which kind of makes sense: they don't procrastinate about things they'd rather not do) Another one: seventh might be they believe implicitly they are the smartest person in the room
- chiefalchemist 8y ago> "...it would be the tendency to latch onto a mantra. "think different" doesn't really mean very much, but boy, successful people who get stuff done like to say it." True. But reading you say it now makes it sound less like GTD and more like they do the right (different) things. Things that yield results; which makes the lead up look important. Kinda the tasks are a symptom more than a means, if that makes sense.
- ggm 8y agoI guess "think different" to them means "take risks" or "run counter to the stream on things" or "see threats as opportunities" or something. IBM had just "think" and I really liked that. The trouble is, it leads to endless ratiocination.
- mariopt 8y agoI found the slide for "Cognitive behaviour model of depression" very interesting, it's probably the best visualisation of depression taking over someones mind leading to a paralysis where simple tasks become something else and chaos emerges. Ego does, sometimes, gets in the way of getting things done but without it we wouldn't care to launch anything new/groundbreaking. Without our Ego as creator, we would have no soul in my opinion. Anyone who freelances, creates something alone, goes solo as a startup founder etc. needs these "cognitive distortions"/"mental disorders", I see them as necessary beliefs. The opposite would be someone who just blends into and becomes yet another functional toothed wheel without any manifestation of desires. A good portion of our society is like these, some people don't want more and are happy/contented. We need these self beliefs/"lies" to wake up on the next day and keep moving forward. I guess this is a form of inner power/motivation without relying on our environment and/or friends. As a solo freelancer, I do "suffer" from some of these because at the end of day: this is what drives me forward.
- liamzebedee 8y agoWe had a thread a couple weeks ago "What interesting thought did you read on HN but couldn't find later?" - I'm wondering if anyone can help me rediscover this Wikipedia article. It was a theory on the cognitive bias of depression/anxiety, applied to the locus/worldview of someone, wherein a person interprets with a smaller outlook on the future i.e. the opposite of "looking at the bigger picture". I've found many anecdotal parallels in people I know, but am absolutely teething to find this article.
- spullara 8y agoMaybe this one? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beck%27s_cognitive_triad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beck%27s_cognitive_triad
- matthewwiese 8y agoIn addition to spullara's Beck link, the "construal level theory" seemed to ring true to what you were describing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construal_level_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construal_level_theory
- jf- 8y agoBy what measure do the people studied ‘get stuff done’? By virtue of being a founder? Is this an attempt to shed light on productivity or a backhanded way to compliment the Silicon Valley crowd? Generally you get things done by being dedicated and having the ability to deliver, rather than having a distorted vision of reality.
- srtjstjsj 8y agoHow do you maintain dedication and commitment to deliver? It's not just about knowledge or skills, as many idle geniuses can tell you. Depression is correlated with realistic perception of realist. Non-Depression (optimism, productivity) is correlated with mild delusion. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201206/depressive-realism https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-seek/201206...
- jf- 8y agoBy having excellent social support structures, many resources, above average ability and domain knowledge, a sense of purpose in your work and being free of mental health issues.
- andai 8y agoRegarding your last point, these actually all sound like symptoms of hypomania.
- vehementi 8y agoReally? How?
- andai 8y ago- Personal Exceptionalism The grandiosity associated with mania is a superset of this. (As mentioned elsewhere, the reverse is not necessarily the case.) - Dichotomous Thinking Pretty much exactly as described in the slides. - Overgeneralization Albeit without the "Correct" part, as often as not, nevertheless leading to some very interesting discoveries. - Blank Canvas thinking To an extreme degree, rebuilding ones personality and self image at least once a year. - Schumpteranism See previous point. This was mostly internal destruction and rebuilding, but often manifested itself in staying awake for days rearranging furniture, breaking down or building in walls etc. Source: runs in the family.
- ggm 8y agoSome friends and I agree there is this "game" which is to own the meeting: only be in a meeting, if you can own it. It sometimes plays out as hugely destructive to the agenda somebody else had going into the meeting, but boy, is it effective at getting (some) things done.
- make3 8y agoVery bold claims, and little data in the presentation. This is extremely soft
- bleigh0 8y agoFair, would be interesting to see the data. I stumbled across this because the founder of an incubator in the UK called Entrepreneur First cited it as something they used to think about applicants. (Their USP is they don't look for teams or ideas but instead pure technical talent or people with domain expertise). [https://youtu.be/RhE_0ZRBq4Q?t=2574 https://youtu.be/RhE_0ZRBq4Q?t=2574]
- wool_gather 8y agoIs the actual talk available? It seems like it would be interesting, but this is mostly bullet points on slides; hard to glean any real information or know what the author intends.
- skmurphy 8y agosee https://www.harrisonmetal.com/library/the-cognitive-distortions-of-founders https://www.harrisonmetal.com/library/the-cognitive-distorti...
- rossdavidh 8y agoHypothesis: the "people who get stuff done" are a subset of a larger group with the same personality and talents, but without as much luck. Those other people are known by unprintable names, because they have no great successes to make people ignore the fact that they're jerks.
- scarejunba 8y agoPossibly true but doesn't affect the outcome. If you can do some things to increase the likelihood of success with low cost, the fact that success is dominated by things you can't change doesn't matter. There are no guarantees, only actions that mildly bias one outcome over another.
- hyperpape 8y agoWhy think the cost is low? I suspect there are a lot of people with founder type personalities who have wasted tons of money, time and goodwill chasing their ambition.
- JetSpiegel 8y agoThose people are losers, so the message never comes out, ensuring survivorship bias.
- nostrademons 8y agoIf you exhibit the cognitive distortions in the slideshow, this likely doesn't matter to you. Money, time, and goodwill are all meaningless if you don't achieve your ambition, per all 5 of them.
- hyperpape 8y agoJust because you exhibit that distortion doesn't mean it's true! You might be less happy, even if you consciously think that the only thing that matters is chasing your ambition.
- drgoodvibe 8y agoInteresting how the cognitive behaviour model looks similar to the OODA Loop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop. Can general decision making be boiled down to a similar model?
- king_nothing 8y agoAttention, interest, decision, action. AIDA. And coffee is for closers.
- jf- 8y agoInterest - are you interested? I know you are because it’s fuck or walk. You close or you hit the bricks.
- madrox 8y agoI have mixed feelings about this. While I do feel this maps closely with my own observations, this also generally describes the cognitive distortions of young people. I wonder if the hidden correlation here is that SV is mostly led by the young and not the old.
- HillaryBriss 8y agoThe Big Five * Personal exceptionalism * Dichotomous thinking * Correct overgeneralization * Blank canvas thinking * Schumpeterianism (creative destruction) i don't endorse the guy and didn't vote for him, but, um, this reminds me of Trump. i mean, how can we assess any person who actually succeeded at a goal that thousands of others wanted but failed to achieve? i don't know. how did this guy avoid losing? it's just so weird. i'm still seeking good theories for his unexpected success...
- noetic_techy 8y agoHe didn't really. Hillary was just such a unpalatable candidate that she lost the election. Look at the turnout data and you will see. Trump didn't do anything special.
- esturk 8y agoThat's actually wrong to say Trump didn't do anything special. Trump had almost 63 million votes which is more than Romney's almost 61 and McCain's almost 60. Hilary had 65.8 million which was almost exactly what Obama got in 2012, 65.9. To say that Trump did nothing is the same narative that Bernie supports started blaming Hilary supporters for losing. It's always the people that vote at fault and not the people who didn't vote.
- Nasrudith 8y agoPart of it has to do with the electoral college as well. He lost by three million votes or 2.1% margin - another is that negative factors piled onto her from the Benghazi mudslinging, the timing of the reopening of the investigation, the disadvantage after a party has the presidency for two terms straight, to a general lack of charisma and ability to inspire people. "I'm with her." just says to support her not why you should do so - even by shallow soundbite standards. He won at a handicap in addition to appealing the base interests of the worst people. The first two I can see but certainly not the last three.
- MichaelMoser123 8y agoi didn't find the audio to this talk, is there? I sense that there are some insights and good observations here, unfortunately for me this is all wrapped in a lot of psychological jargon that i can't penetrate.
- sonnyblarney 8y agoIs this 'get stuff done' or 'apparently started companies that did great things'? I know the type described in the article, they would seem to be more 'driven founders' types. So many people that 'get stuff done' in the 'work' sense are those who have good focus, set priorities, and focus on outcomes. They often don't even stand out. Moreover, the 'I am special' is still arrogant, in a way. Many of these people can have softer, beta type personalities, but the actions, decisions and and outcomes are still those of an arrogant person. I know loud, boorish and apparently 'arrogant' people who are at the end of the day pushovers in the sense that they are actually nice guys, soft on negotiation because they want a 'fair deal', loyal to people to a fault etc., they just have a brusque, apparently cynical outward demeanor. I think this is a very interesting psychological framework with the wrong wording in the title ... or rather, a much better definition of what they mean by 'get stuff done'.
- internetman55 8y agoWow I was going to call this stupid before I realized I have most of those
- hyperpallium 8y agoDichotomous thinking is discussed in terms of high standards, with the danger of perfectionism. But generally: reality is grey; actions are not. If you see reality as it really is, it is harder to make decisions, and to commit to them. A quality of leadership is the ability to make decisions quickly. If they are the right decisions, so much the better... (LN)
- themodelplumber 8y agoYou can change the resolution of the judgment process to better model the grayness of life. You can also wield and employ multiple models, intentionally, to gain a similar outcome. Actions that follow this modeling and detecting can then be _refined actions_, which is to say that they elegantly fit a higher-resolution model of reality. A quality of leadership is refinement, which allows for decisions that e.g. unite people of varying backgrounds through a higher-resolution process which, while still dichotomous in some ways, is much smarter about it. In using elegant models one's reaction time is shortened while also bringing to bear a great deal of leverage.
- firecall 8y agoIs there a presentation where these slides are presented at all?
- skmurphy 8y agoSee https://www.harrisonmetal.com/library/the-cognitive-distortions-of-founders https://www.harrisonmetal.com/library/the-cognitive-distorti...
- Nasrudith 8y agoHe calls it cognitive distortions but doesn't seem to offer any proof that their perceptions are wrong. It is possible they were provided in the actual content as opposed to the power-points to PDF. An anorexic convinced that they are fat when they are 75 pounds and their body is falling apart from lack of calories is a distortion. These paradigms don't seem to fit the definition. There is always the possibility that these 'distortions' are in fact objectively correct. The criticism of creative destruction in particular - sure it may have costs but is not doing so any better? Thinking that preserving the status quo at the cost of advancement is in itself a distortion arguably. Furthermore there is the question does it count as a distortion if they are self-aware that these are all heuristics and adjusting accordingly? Defining 'sanity' without reference to reality itself is ironically downright insane. Like Pythagorians reacting so negatively to discovering irrational numbers undeniably exist.
- vanderZwan 8y ago> The criticism of creative destruction in particular - sure it may have costs but is not doing so any better? Thinking that preserving the status quo at the cost of advancement is in itself a distortion arguably. That criticism is not even present in the slides. It just says "heartlessness, alienation." You may believe those risks to be justified, but getting defensive about as if these are not real risks is denying the real world data, which coincidentally is another criticism mentioned. > Defining 'sanity' without reference to reality itself is ironically downright insane. The word 'sanity' is not mentioned in any of these slides. You are getting defensive over non-existent accusations and in the process are managing to almost understand what 'distortion' means in this context but then somehow get it completely wrong. All of these five things are thought processes. They can be right some of the time. They can be right most of the time. What defines them as a "distortion" is whether they are the default mode of interpretation of the world all of the time, regardless of what the reality of the situation is. The word is not chosen as a derision - see also déformation professionnelle[0]. A more appropriate framing of the anorexia comparison would be "always feeling that one is fat, regardless of actual weight." Focusing only on the moment in which someone is actually underweight but still feeling fat is both getting it and missing the point at the same time. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9formation_professionnelle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C3%A9formation_professionnel...
- montrose 8y agoReading this, I was reminded of Hardy's Mathematician's Apology. He mentions several of these points.
- caseymarquis 8y agoCargo Cult Science: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science